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DontZzz34

GUN not agreeing with the community that the Jason kill is too easy???

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Wasnt there a thread on here about how many times youve been killed as Jason...

 

And some people actually replied, "zero".  

 

And its too easy?  Jason got killed every movie, he doesnt get killed every match.  Its 7 on 1.  Deal with it.

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33 minutes ago, TimDuke 01 said:

Yes 2 and 5 their mask comes off the quickest and 9. Possibly part 4 is the toughest mask?

There’s base health Jason’s that are all the same. Then you got pretty sure 2, 5, 6, and 9 that have lower health I wanna say

and @RaidCasto all it takes is a good kill squad to be on a team and they will kill jason about every game they’re in. I’ve had nights where we had a 90% success rate. About every game Jason was dying. The same goes for many other players as well with a 90% success rate. And players who claim they’ve never died hide in the lake, don’t show up to the fight at all, rage quit before dying, haven’t gone up against any good kill squads, avoid kill squads, or have just been lucky enough to not have gotten hunted very much as jason. 

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I'm really starting to think the majority of ppl that want the kill to stay easy are either part of a kill squad or they just prefer to kill Jason rather than escape or survive the night. They just want to use one course of action only and making the kill harder to pull would prevent them from doing so. Kinda like those back then who only wanted to stun Jason for the entire match, they were playing the game to do one thing and one thing only. That was a problem and it was somewhat rectified with the rage update. And just like the pinata Jason party, the kill being to easy needs to be addressed so it implies a much greater challenge than it actually is presently imo.

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1 hour ago, DontZzz34 said:

The more vids the better

All I need to do is go in a private match, shoot Jason and hit him with an indefensible hit.

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1 minute ago, Seraphic King said:

All I need to do is go in a private match, shoot Jason and hit him with an indefensible hit.

I will assist you with that

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if Jasons mask is harder to remove then trying to remove jasons mask will damage alot of machetes and axes.

there wont be any weapons left to use to kill Jason.

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36 minutes ago, DontZzz34 said:

I will assist you with that

Well whenever you’re down to do it HMU. I think I have you on Xbox

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If Jason had the tools he had at launch. This probably wouldn't be as glaring as it is now.

I'd say a fair trade is something like this that should keep mains on both sides happy.

For Counselor.

Allow Jason to be stunned in rage with any weapon again, but the weapons break instantly regardless. This should help the slower/repair based counselors have more of a chance of surviving the night. Yes it does help the faster/more meta counselors, but with the trade being the weapon breaking instantly. I think that's a fair trade. Before rage, the weapons will have their normal durability plus whatever based on perks and said counselor stats. Bottom line, don't want him to get to rage? DON'T LOOK TO HIT HIM FOR NO REASON other than stamina regeneration. If you get him to rage and you start losing your weapons quickly. That's your fault.

For Jason.

Bring back godframes. This allowed him seconds of invincibilty after a stun, which prevented him from being possibly chainstunned or damage stunned without any real protection. Removing this made no sense. Back then, people made the claim that it was a lazy band aid for Jason and made him too strong. Well times have changed and it should return.

The other tool you give him back is meat shielding. This allowed him to plausibly grab a counselor in a 2 vs 1 scenario, quickly spin them around to have his back in front of them and they COULD NOT FREE the counselor if Jason had his back towards them. This was a great protection in crowds, making grabs not COMPLETELY USELESS in crowds. Once this was removed, it basically made grabs in any scenario where Jason was not 1 vs 1 a total joke because its now instant freedom for every melee hit, thus forcing him to become a slasher in all crowd situations, which in turn opens him up to being demasked and killed quicker, REGARDLESS OF COMBAT STANCE.

You could give him his old combat quick blocking back as a token buff, but I'd much rather have the other two as they help massively in the crowd game.

I feel like if you did the above things, that would be a decent trade balance. I feel like we need video/visual evidence from back then to show what he was like around launch because outside of the OG launch players, people seem to have no idea what these mechanics are or were.

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Very good post @tyrant666

I agree some kind of trade-off between Jason and the counselors is the best way to do this.  That way it's not just "oh you're just lazily buffing Jason and making counselors weaker" argument. 

We've only had one real patch/buff to Jason in the 2+ years of this games existence IMO.  And it wasn't the rage buff.  it was the ability to hit multiple counselors with one melee attack.  This isn't as strong as it should be with the counselors having thick skin and medic however. We're obviously not gonna see a perk rework where things like medic just are no longer a thing however.  Meanwhile, sure you might hit those 3 counselors but one of them is gonna smack you in return and thus begins the free shots out of stun situation where Jason is losing his mask.  

Meat shielding is the one thing removed from Jason's repertoire that I just don't understand.  I don't even know if it was an intended change anymore to be frankly honest as it was taken out so long ago.  It just makes sense to be a thing though.  If you hit a counselor in the back, it's not gonna force a hulking brute to drop them.  This shouldn't have ever been taken out in the first place and should be brought back. 

Your idea for stuns to still work is an interesting one.  But I don't know how coding of it would work.  Maybe @mattshotcha can shed some light on this for us if it's even possible to allow all weapons to stun when Jason is in rage but break immediately from doing so.  This would also lead to the Jason kill itself being more difficult if he's in rage as it would require a 3rd person to actually drop him to his knees in the sweater stun as a Tommy axe stun would just break the axe. 

 

 

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22 hours ago, Strigoi said:

Its only a small amount of forum members who belive that its too easy to kill Jason.

Jason is not easy to kill and thats a fact.

making it more difficult to kill jason would rui the game.

You're full of shit, but then I guess some people just can't tolerate a challenge unless it's easy enough for an 8 year old to accomplish.

 

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Thank you @mattshotcha for your comments! I believe there was just a poll on this very forum a few days ago “ how many times have you been killed as Jason” several posts from the people in this very thread were saying how the have only died a handful of times in 2 years and how they clear lobbies before they even hit rage. I myself think the Jason kill could be a bit tougher but I’m ok with it the way it is especially when a player who has played this game almost daily since release is Jason (a lot of the people complaining in this thread) it’s definitely nice to see you get feedback from other sources as most people who don’t play constantly and are not in this forum have a voice.

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6 hours ago, mattshotcha said:

Yes, I am drawing the two items closer than is completely fair, but it's still reason to pause at the least. These types of skill gaps are tricky to navigate, and definitely require more than a snap decision, though. I think it requires significant testing and analyzing the specifics though. Because if a mask coming off starts to require enough hits to push a Jason into Rage, we're going to see an opposite effect.

Sure, players realize that different Jason characters have different values to the mask, but how many people will get tripped up into wailing away on a mask and pushing Rage? Will this affect the picks on Jason? How will this play to mid tier players? Maybe players who don't run the very specific parameters and combos of counselor and perk will be back to beating up on Jason, pushing Rage in an attempt to de-mask? There's a hell of a lot more to this than just add mask hp. That's more my point. This may well be more frustrating to newer players than occasionally running into a kill squad, especially since they can adjust to the kill squad encounter a hell of a lot more likely than a hard value change. Because if you're a newer player running counselor trying to fix a car, and some mid tier player who is going for a kill is going to push Jason into Rage, say maybe before Tommy is in or what have you, I think that would be pretty infuriating as well. 

I agree you don't want to proceed haphazardly. I also understand resources are limited. Mask hp is just one of the things, that I'd say at least a fair number of players feel would help. The other things would take more time and development though. I just hope the team does strongly consider a buff to the mask hp at least. 

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16 hours ago, DontZzz34 said:

Everyone should start posting evidence of the ease of the kill. The more the better. Jason needs to be able to have the tools to defend himself better and be like the supernatural killer he’s supposed to be.

Posting the evidence will prove useful if it is unbiased based on the developers' standards. If those standards could be outlined, I'm sure some of our top players would be happy to submit such evidence.

6 hours ago, mattshotcha said:

It's not that we aren't listening, it's that we're trying to account for ALL of the player base, not just some of it. Do you honestly feel that the ENTIRE player base finds it too easy to kill Jason? Because we can show ten times as many reports from players saying he is unstoppable post-Rage. Accounting for the entire player base of this game is not an easy task. It never was.

The people who don't agree don't always feel welcome to voice their opinions due to the reactions of those who do. It tends to turn into ridicule rather quickly.

There's some truth to that. There's also the fact that some new members of the forum only came here to troll and instigate altercations with those who were already here. Thankfully things here aren't nearly as toxic as they once were.

I play as Jason, I watch a ton of footage. I watch a ton of videos from people saying it is too easy. More on that after quotes.

It is good to hear that you do play as Jason and watch the videos. How do you typically fare as the big J?

Again, there's players here who disagree. Shaming them with "get good" rhetoric is not going to earn anyone favor in this topic.

I've never been a fan of the "get good" argument.

Varying degrees of experience, etc. Again, look at the Rage topic for a hint into where the community as a whole is.

Which rage topic are you making reference to?

Against an inexperienced Roy. Fun fact, Roy and other "Human Jason" characters have the least "health" (for lack of a better term) and are the easiest to knock the mask off of. Little tidbits like this would help the newer players who weren't already familiar with this.

This forum is NOT representative of the entire player base.  I think quite a few of us are aware of that. It never hurts to be reminded.

I know that sucks to hear, but you guys are more the minority at this point.  It's always felt that way.

Even if the entire active forum agreed on something, they wouldn't represent the majority of the player base. This isn't said to insult or sound shitty, it's vital to understanding my role at Gun. You have a tough job. Sometimes you have to be blunt with what you say. It happens.

If my job were as easy as reading the forums and making recommendations based solely off that, I'd get to spend a lot more time with my daughter. All jokes aside, there is a lot more that goes into decision making in game.

Perhaps an elaborate explanation in a future Beyond stream could help the people understand what you are dealing with when it comes to decision making.

The topic of the mask plays into the greater topic of Jason and his power level. We recently made a major change to the power level of Jason by way of the Rage changes. The community is still in an adjustment period off of that change and making another sweeping change to Jason's strength is not an easy choice. We run the risk of potentially alienating the middle tier of players who may be on their way to killing a Jason or two, but not quite finding it as easy as some of you all do. How long do you feel is a good "adjustment period"?

How about once a month, in your "Tales from the Stream" broadcasts, you play against a sampling of the members of each social media platform on a specific game platform?

5 hours ago, thrawn3054 said:

You are right that we are sometimes too harsh towards people with a different opinion on this. If someone can come up with a sound argument as to why we are wrong I'll be willing to change my position.

That's the reason many of us choose our words carefully.

5 hours ago, mattshotcha said:

Yes, I am drawing the two items closer than is completely fair, but it's still reason to pause at the least. These types of skill gaps are tricky to navigate, and definitely require more than a snap decision, though. I think it requires significant testing and analyzing the specifics though. Because if a mask coming off starts to require enough hits to push a Jason into Rage, we're going to see an opposite effect.

Sure, players realize that different Jason characters have different values to the mask, but how many people will get tripped up into wailing away on a mask and pushing Rage? Will this affect the picks on Jason? How will this play to mid tier players? Maybe players who don't run the very specific parameters and combos of counselor and perk will be back to beating up on Jason, pushing Rage in an attempt to de-mask? There's a hell of a lot more to this than just add mask hp. That's more my point. This may well be more frustrating to newer players than occasionally running into a kill squad, especially since they can adjust to the kill squad encounter a hell of a lot more likely than a hard value change. Because if you're a newer player running counselor trying to fix a car, and some mid tier player who is going for a kill is going to push Jason into Rage, say maybe before Tommy is in or what have you, I think that would be pretty infuriating as well. 

I believe the majority of the player base want the same thing. They want a game that is fun and enjoyable from all sides. There's still some work to be done to get the game there. Every bit of feedback (positive or negative) contributes to that effort somewhat.

4 hours ago, SirMang said:

We were told at the beginning of the game's lifespan that killing Jason was a rare occurrence.  One of every 70 games or so was what was touted.  Problem is that's no longer anywhere near the case.

The 1/70 was based on the developers' efforts. Players that play this game for 12+ hours a day are gonna see it differently.

4 hours ago, DontZzz34 said:

I truly believe the only thing to get you to agree with us is play as jason against a good kill squad. That could be something you stream. Please do it. 

It's not so much about him agreeing with us. It's more about getting him to see where this stance comes from. Playing against players from each platform from a multitude of skill levels could be very helping in testing and affect the decision making process.

3 hours ago, RaidCasto said:

Wasnt there a thread on here about how many times youve been killed as Jason...

And some people actually replied, "zero". 

And its too easy?  Jason got killed every movie, he doesnt get killed every match.  Its 7 on 1.  Deal with it.

It was zero at the time they responded to that post. That may or may not have changed.

1 hour ago, tyrant666 said:

If Jason had the tools he had at launch. This probably wouldn't be as glaring as it is now.

I'd be curious if this is an option at this point in the game's life cycle.

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20 hours ago, SirMang said:

3:12 is optimal conditions, fastest possible that I know of, one in a thousand type of thing.  I'm not gonna exaggerate and say it can happen that fast all the time.  We've had several kills in under 4 minutes, probably a couple dozen in total.  But when we're in the Jason killing mode, by the 6 minute mark, Jason is dead 9 times out of 10.  Since there's only 3 of us doing this, there is account for a random coming back as Tommy or Jason simply hiding the rest of the match once his mask is off. 

    3:12 is still pretty damned quick... Probably close to being as rare as a team of counselors getting both cars going and escaping with 6 counselors before Jason gets his first shift... That one I have seen a few times... and Jason is powerless to stop it under the right conditions, with a team that can work together... But this one takes pretty much the entire team working together, which is another rarity in itself... or it is not going to happen.

19 hours ago, HuDawg said:

ot sure how it ruins the hero role.

    Some players do not want to go for the Jason kill... Tommy is quite capable of helping the counselors in many other ways... which would be impossible if he comes in that late... So that just hurts players who don't want to go for the Jason kill... which is not the solution to the problem... Tommy was never the problem, the ease of getting Jason's mask off is the problem.

19 hours ago, Strigoi said:

well from the start there is few weapons that can get the mask off. there is very few axes and machetes.

   Wrenches can also remove the mask... so can a bat, or any other weapon that does the final bit of damage towards removal... ALL weapons do damage towards mask removal, some just do more than others... If I am not mistaken the bat does the least amount... or possibly the 2x4... or even the sacred branch... Perhaps the sacred branch should do more damage... it is after all... THE sacred branch.
   If there are only 4 axes and 4 machetes in each match, then how is it I find that many of one or the other in almost every match I play?... That makes zero sense as it is a very low probability that I could find all of them in so many matches... There are weapons at campsites too right, some on picnic tables here and there. They do not all spawn in cabins.
   It also DOES NOT take that many hits to get Jason's mask off... Bugsy is also not the only counselor that can easily do it... Remember that guy named Tommy? And they don't have to use Bugsy... When I try to do it... by myself... with A.J. I can generally do it without dying in 3 out of 5 attempts... But I don't keep track of how many swings it takes for her because I use other methods... Such as leading him into bear traps, using flare guns, shot guns... and hits from ANY weapons I can find... weapons do not last long for A.J. I have even seen firecrackers take the mask off without a weapon strike to go along with it... But I only try to kill Jason when helping polite Jason hunters... otherwise, I am just removing the mask to put the fear of it into them... which works VERY well.
   More weapons are not necessary... we have been through that before too... It led to piñata parties and VERY early demaskings… Other than a couple of low luck counselors, most of them get WAY more than enough strikes with one weapon... And for the most part, Jason hunters do not use low luck counselors.

18 hours ago, Seraphic King said:

I do want to add that due to the kill being so easy, it is scaring new players away.

    This is why I am against players even trying to kill a low level Jason... I still have people in my friends list that quit playing the game because of this and never returned... no matter how many times I invite them into a match.
    New players, particularly those that are huge fans of the franchise... and of Jason in particular... consider it ridiculous that he can be killed so easily. But there are huge fans of the franchise that do not consider the "villain" to be their hero... and want to be the one to stop him. 
    Glad to hear you are going to stick it out though... It may be too easy to kill Jason, but they will not always get you... Sometimes they screw it up, and that will save you more often than a whole lot of skill at combat using Jason... which is why I kill noobs first when I know there is a kill squad after me. It doesn't work even close to every time, but with a newer player involved it at least increases the chance they will somehow screw up the kill.

18 hours ago, Dragonfire82877 said:

You don’t even need to have a group of competent counselors to make the Jason kill easy.

   You don't need ANY competent counselors to do it... I have seen groups of noobs that barely knew what they are doing pull it off with 2 out of 5 Jason kills vs attempts... Granted they were not playing against top tier Jason players for those kills either though.

17 hours ago, Fair Play said:

In the last day or so, I've run into 6 or 7 people who now refuse to play as Jason due to how easy it is to be killed as him.

   I have quit a few friends that feel this way as well... and if a certain "Jason Killer" shows up, they want me to back out so they can change their preference to counselor. Which is fine by me as I enjoy playing against this particular person anyway... Still no shame in dying... but many don't see it that way... But at least these players have not abandoned the game entirely over it.
   The problem I see is that it is not a rarity for far less experienced hunters to kill Jason with consistancy.

3 hours ago, TimDuke 01 said:

Yes 2 and 5 their mask comes off the quickest and 9. Possibly part 4 is the toughest mask?

    As an avid Part IV main... I can tell you that the mask comes off pretty easy on Part IV as well... I had a Vanessa demask me not too long ago with 3 hits... and they were not heavy attacks... and I took no other damage before that... Which is weird because I have taken far more light attacks from Vanessas many times before and not lost my mask with all kind of weapons. But I have been demasked by a Bugsy with two strikes before using Part IV as well.

6 hours ago, mattshotcha said:

Why would the Jason player walk into that fight?

   You make a lot of very good points... and raising the mask HP alone is not the solution, this would make it exponentially harder for low luck / low strength counselors and only marginally more difficult for counselors like Bugsy and Tommy... Severely nerfing most of the counselor's ability to damage Jason is all that this would do if other changes were not made to how all counselors or weapons or both do damage, which makes this one a whole lot more work to give it anything resembling balance... It is always more complicated than many people think... no matter the subject at hand.
   But I quoted this question for one reason only... and I know it is somewhat improper to answer a question with a question... but when considering what we know of Jason's method of operations... Why would Jason run away?... Retreat was never in his vocabulary and nor should it be... But barring a mistake from Tommy, or improper timing of the sweater stun from sweater girl... the two together and Tommy with an axe gives Jason a snowballs chance in the lowest pits of hell at surviving.
    Perhaps this should be considered... how to give them a fair chance to kill him at that point, while still giving Jason a fair chance to stop them from killing him at the same time. Jason should not be the one running away... It is just not in his character and somewhat takes the fear out of playing a counselor with an almost guaranteed kill at that point. But how to do this without throwing balance to the wind?... The answer to that question is beyond me at this point.

   There are procedures that make it easy to demask him, for which his only real defense is to run away... My method of demasking with A.J. by myself only requires him to follow me through a couple of cabins that I have been through already. Each bear trap he walks into (and they always walk into them) damages him and leaves him open for a hit after the animation... just as each hit that stuns him does... and I have pretty a good success rate with it. I don't bother for the kill unless a polite hunter asks for help... I just do it to put the fear of it into the Jason player, and the fear of it is always obvious once that mask is off. My point is... Jason should not be the one who is afraid to act, he should be the one inspiring the fear... even after losing his mask... I mean, just look at his face... the man is scary looking. If you ever do try and make it more difficult to pull off the Jason kill... I am extremely curious as to the method you would use to do it.
    Now go and spend some time with your family... the weekend is upon us!

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7 hours ago, mattshotcha said:

Again, there's players here who disagree. Shaming them with "get good" rhetoric is not going to earn anyone favor in this topic.

Not sure why this was in response to my post. I didn’t name or shame anyone, nor did I tell anyone to “get good.” 

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Maybe you losers should find something better to do with your time? You're complaining a task in a 2 year old unsupported dead game is too easy to do because you've done it way too much. 

 

Maybe do something else at this point 

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19 minutes ago, SaveUsY2K said:

unsupported dead game 

After just this statement alone, I stopped reading as your post lost all merit. The game is not unsupported as they are still working on gameplay issues. The game also isn’t dead seeing as they’re still several people playing the game. 

Glad you felt the need to sign up and comment on a “dead” game though. 

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5 hours ago, RaidCasto said:

Wasnt there a thread on here about how many times youve been killed as Jason...

 

And some people actually replied, "zero".

 

2 hours ago, Urmomsnewman said:

I believe there was just a poll on this very forum a few days ago “ how many times have you been killed as Jason” several posts from the people in this very thread were saying how the have only died a handful of times in 2 years and how they clear lobbies before they even hit rage.

 

At the risk of pointing out the obvious, if we are to acknowledge what Matt said earlier about this forum not being representative of the entire player base, logically it also applies to these kind of pools and not just this thread we have here. Their results don't necessarily represent the majority of said player base.

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It makes no sense to make Jasons mask tougher to get off.

The axe is the only weapon that is heavy enough to hit Jason in the head to bring him to his knees when stunned by the sweater.

making the mask tougher creates problems in the game as then weapons must be stronger and last longer.

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I have knocked Jason's mask off with just two hits with a axe in combat mode with Adam.  Was right at beginning of match.  He had been untouched prior. Been saying he is too easy to kill for over a year now. I think it is easier to kill him then escape. 

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1 hour ago, SaveUsY2K said:

unsupported dead game i

Can't be that dead if we're here still talking about it, huh?

 

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Strigoi,What is your seemingly obsession for being able to kill Jason? Am I the only one noticing this? You're the only one raising a big stink about a change the obvious majority thinks needs to happen. You do realize there are 4 other ways to "win" as a counselor. Fix both cars or car/boat, fix the phone, or survive by hiding/juking Jason till the timer runs out. It's not even happened and it doesn't look like it will. Whether it be more mask durability or fixing combat stance or something else you are dead set against it. If I helped kill Jason just by pure coincidence with no forethought and I'm apparently not the only one then something needs to be changed.

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6 hours ago, makred78 said:

I'm really starting to think the majority of ppl that want the kill to stay easy are either part of a kill squad or they just prefer to kill Jason rather than escape or survive the night. They just want to use one course of action only and making the kill harder to pull would prevent them from doing so. Kinda like those back then who only wanted to stun Jason for the entire match, they were playing the game to do one thing and one thing only. That was a problem and it was somewhat rectified with the rage update. And just like the pinata Jason party, the kill being to easy needs to be addressed so it implies a much greater challenge than it actually is presently imo.

This pretty much.

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32 minutes ago, Strigoi said:

The axe is the only weapon that is heavy enough to hit Jason in the head to bring him to his knees when stunned by the sweater.

What are you talking about? Jadon can be dropped with a bat, machete, frying pan or any other melee weapon for that matter. The ave has a higher chance, but it is not the only weapon that can drop Jason to his knees. Hell, I’ve seen Jason dropped to his knees with a fire poker. 

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35 minutes ago, Strigoi said:

The axe is the only weapon that is heavy enough to hit Jason in the head to bring him to his knees when stunned by the sweater.

Every single weapon in this game (minus the shotgun and flaregun) can drop Jason to his knees. A Bunny Girl with her 1/10 strength can take a baseball bat and drop Jason almost every single time.

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