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DontZzz34

GUN not agreeing with the community that the Jason kill is too easy???

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16 minutes ago, Dragonfire82877 said:

You don’t even need to have a group of competent counselors to make the Jason kill easy. I have teamed up with just one other random several times since the rage buff to pull off an excessively easy Jason kill.

All this talk about Jason being too hard to kill is hilarious. I can’t help but laugh out loud while reading how someone honestly thinks Jason is so hard to kill, and he is overpowered to the point counselor’s need more buffs and more weapons to pull off a kill. 

I meant competent people in your lobby. Not that you were a group already. I've pulled off the kill with randoms many times as well.

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3 hours ago, OCT 31 1978 said:

@DontZzz34 even if Matt doesn’t agree, if enough of the community believes it is easy ......than something will be done about it...

Between all the polls and threads the communities opinion leans heavily to it being easy....and with all the videos showing how easy it is the evidence is out there.

If people keep submitting video evidence of Jason's all too easy demise, perhaps we can get the changes needed.

#GiveJasonHisReputationBack #JasonBackOnTop

3 hours ago, SirMang said:

Still, even if the Jason is a scrub, it should NOT be that easy to de-mask him. 

No Jason (scrub or otherwise) should be unmasked that easily.

3 hours ago, Slasher_Clone said:

Jason is to easy to kill.... this is a fact, not an opinion.

This is the fact of the day, and the week.

2 hours ago, Strigoi said:

Its only a small amount of forum members who belive that its too easy to kill Jason.

Jason is not easy to kill and thats a fact.

making it more difficult to kill jason would rui the game.

What evidence do you have to support your "factual statement"?

2 hours ago, DontZzz34 said:

It’s actually a very large amount of us forum members that believe the Jason kill is too easy. Along with many people on their twitch streams from today especially. It was filled with people saying “make the Jason kill harder” “give more mask hp” “the Jason kill is the easiest thing to do in the game when it should be the hardest”  etc.... @Strigoi if you think the Jason kill is hard you lack skill. The Jason kill is easy and that is a fact. On @Fair Play poll it is 23-8 on mask hp needs a buff of some kind or counselor strength needs decreased compared to only 8 people who think it should stay as is. And those 8 people either lack skill or don’t want to have to put in work for killing Jason 

I chose to create a poll for that topic, due to the fact that it was a topic that was popping up and derailing a number of other topics.

I believe the people here have made their stance on the matter well known. Hopefully the developers will take that information into consideration when making any upcoming changes within the game.

2 hours ago, Dragonfire82877 said:

LOL!!! This is a joke right?

If it is, I'm not laughing.

1 hour ago, Strigoi said:

well from the start there is few weapons that can get the mask off. there is very few axes and machetes.

have you noticed that there is only 4 axes and 4 machetes in the whole match of each map.

it takes alot of swipes to get the mask off.

Jason has protection of RAGE that stops most people from trying killing him.

adding more protection to Jason and causing the mask to be harder to get off would cause all axes and machetes to break and be unusable.

then most people wont be able to kill jason because all axes and machetes would be broke from trying to get the mask off.

then Gunmedia would have to pay for more axes and machetes to be added to each map and it would fuck everything up.

Could you submit some video footage of one of your typical matches? I think if you could do this, perhaps a few more people could see where you are coming from with your view on the matter.

1 hour ago, Seraphic King said:

I do want to add that due to the kill being so easy, it is scaring new players away. I’ve asked this in a previous post of mine, “what is the point in killing new Jasons.

In the last day or so, I've run into 6 or 7 people who now refuse to play as Jason due to how easy it is to be killed as him.

1 hour ago, Strigoi said:

not everyone uses Buggzy.

this is what needs to happen to make everyone happy.

instead of Gunmedia paying black tower to add more stuff.

add a more difficult mode to the game where the sweater is missing and Jason cant be killed.

its better to take things away than try to switch things around.

A word of advice, never ever presume to speak for everyone on this or any other forum.

By the way, I highly doubt Gun Media is planning on adding any new modes to the game, due to the lawsuit.

46 minutes ago, Dragonfire82877 said:

All this talk about Jason being too hard to kill is hilarious. I can’t help but laugh out loud while reading how someone honestly thinks Jason is so hard to kill, and he is overpowered to the point counselor’s need more buffs and more weapons to pull off a kill. 

Perhaps the newest of players may think Jason is too hard to kill. They'll change their tune after a while.

28 minutes ago, thrawn3054 said:

I meant competent people in your lobby. Not that you were a group already. I've pulled off the kill with randoms many times as well.

Many of us here are in the same boat.

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2 hours ago, DontZzz34 said:

 But my point is Tommy’s hero role In these lobbies would make him useless and he wouldn’t have a chance to save all that many counselors. 

That sounds great..  Hes basically reduced to kill Jason at the end, like a movie.    Jason shouldn't die early anyways.

   

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Brushing off how easy it is to kill Jason is probably their way of saying that it will cost too much and take too much time and create too many bugs.

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5 hours ago, HuDawg said:

That sounds great..  Hes basically reduced to kill Jason at the end, like a movie.    Jason shouldn't die early anyways.

   

I’ve always been saying Jason should only be killable final 5 minutes. I know exactly what you mean when you say towards the end is when Jason could/should be the time he can get killed. I think it makes perfect sense to relate it to the movie..... But the devs don’t see the same vision. A chase should always be involved by the hunter (Jason) before you can be the one to be the hunter in Jason’s own game. When a kill squad is around and they kill jason the first few minutes that shouldn’t exist. Is this Jason’s game or the counselors? 

 

5 hours ago, Fair Play said:

If people keep submitting video evidence of Jason's all too easy demise, perhaps we can get the changes needed.

#GiveJasonHisReputationBack #JasonBackOnTop

I chose to create a poll for that topic, due to the fact that it was a topic that was popping up and derailing a number of other topics.

Everyone should start posting evidence of the ease of the kill. The more the better. Jason needs to be able to have the tools to defend himself better and be like the supernatural killer he’s supposed to be. 

Hopefully the j kill starts to get more focus that it deserves 

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The kill is only ever easy when planned, but TBH there's a bigger problem with counselors not being able to regain stamina from hitting Jason in rage mode... Even if you can when you hit him it still doesn't stun him so you get rendered pretty useless when it comes to stamina and regen unless your on a stacked counselor and even then I mean really. I'm finding myself forcing to run all stamina perks because more than half the time I'm dying to running out of it because no one seems to know how to play the game when it's fairly simple. Just an opinion... But I've started to dislike this game slowly more and more since the Jason Nerf. It makes it way too frustrating because its nice for Jason to become as invincible as he should be, but at the same time it never balanced out the counselors to be slightly better stat wise to be in rage mode.

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3 hours ago, Jax00 said:

The kill is only ever easy when planned, but TBH there's a bigger problem with counselors not being able to regain stamina from hitting Jason in rage mode... Even if you can when you hit him it still doesn't stun him 

Two things:

1. I could share several videos of myself, and I am not an active Jason hunter, being involved in a spur of the moment “unplanned” Jason kill. The comment that it has to be planned out to make it easy is BS. 

2. You can still regain stamina from hitting Jason when he is in rage mode. You don’t have to stun him to regain stamina. Bait him into a missed grab attempt, hit him and get out of his direct path. I main Deborah with no stamina perk at all and have no problem getting stamina when I need it. 

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12 minutes ago, Dragonfire82877 said:

involved in a spur of the moment “unplanned” Jason kill. The comment that it has to be planned out to make it easy is BS. 

Yes Jax00 go to Jason's mask thread and read my scenario. Your statement is totally untrue

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1 hour ago, Dragonfire82877 said:

You can still regain stamina from hitting Jason when he is in rage mode. You don’t have to stun him to regain stamina. Bait him into a missed grab attempt, hit him and get out of his direct path. I main Deborah with no stamina perk at all and have no problem getting stamina when I need it. 

Be careful with that if Jason spams grab back to back I’m pretty sure he can grab you before you have time to get out of grab range. Unless you do the hit and dodge method. That usually works well 

5 hours ago, Jax00 said:

The kill is only ever easy when planned, but TBH there's a bigger problem with counselors not being able to regain stamina from hitting Jason in rage mode... Even if you can when you hit him it still doesn't stun him so you get rendered pretty useless when it comes to stamina and regen unless your on a stacked counselor and even then I mean really. I'm finding myself forcing to run all stamina perks because more than half the time I'm dying to running out of it because no one seems to know how to play the game when it's fairly simple. Just an opinion... But I've started to dislike this game slowly more and more since the Jason Nerf. It makes it way too frustrating because its nice for Jason to become as invincible as he should be, but at the same time it never balanced out the counselors to be slightly better stat wise to be in rage mode.

I’ve killed Jason with several randoms of a spur of the moment thing unplanned and not communicated successfully several times. It only fails if the tommy player is a complete bonehead. This kill is overall just too easy

And what counselor do you run? Instead of stamina perks try managing stamina more and using swift attacker to save your life when you need it. Hit+dodge method when dry on stamina can help get you to the next window and it’s even better if it de masks him for a stun

 

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16 hours ago, DontZzz34 said:

@mattshotcha missed stream today. But I watched it for a little bit and noticed there was some conversation back and forth about the Jason kill being too easy and you not really agreeing. I don’t go for the kill all that much anymore cause it’s gotten so easy and boring. It’s now to me just a spur of the moment or sometimes kinda thing. But I’ve had some nights where that’s all I did and me and my team could get at least 15 or so kills in one night. Maybe failing only a couple times out of all the attempts. This should be enough info to tell you that it’s too easy. No one should have at least a 90% success rate in killing Jason....... surviving the night? Yeah that’s the real challenge in the game and you definitely will not see a 90% success rate in that method of survival. The Jason kill should be almost as hard as surviving the night imo..... should be the 2nd hardest thing to do in the game not the easiest thing to do in the game

In this video all I did was press RT mask off. Sweater girl pressed Y. I pressed RT and A. Too easy. 

I also de masked right out of his stun which is the cheapest and easiest way possible. Just to show how easy and broken this is. With Jason not having any defense or counter to getting killed. 

You guys seem iffy about giving more mask hp...... what about at the very least give Jason a few seconds of invincibility from damage dealt after a stun?

you say Jason’s mask hp isn’t a balance issue..... how isn’t it when Jason can get killed from a 1 hit de mask and getting killed with hardly any sort of counter? This is a huge balance issue that needs addressed/fixed. 

First off, there is no accounting for what damage Jason took in the process of the 3 kills he did get in this match. As for the rest of the points I'll make, I'll share that at the end of the quoted section.

15 hours ago, SirMang said:

I've said it's too easy to kill Jason many times, me and 2 of my friends going into QP fastest time of pulling it off was 3:12.  2 of us work on the mask and die, the third just goes and waits at the shack when we do.   But, in this video, Jason did have time to go into block.  Instead he walked a few steps to the left.  

But I've demasked a Jason twenty seconds into the round before, which should never...EVER...happen.  Spawn at the fuse house, grabbed a pocket knife and axe, waited til he put his traps down on the box, went and tanked one trap off as I was clicking it off he grabbed me.  PK knocked me off the grab.  I went into CS behind him, waited til the PK stun animation was done, and bam....mask off. Now obviously this is extremely optimal de-masking conditions but it shouldn't happen regardless. 

You do realize how perfect the parameters are in the scenario you detailed right? Not to mention the coordination of a squad? 

15 hours ago, DontZzz34 said:

That ruins Tommy’s hero role though. That’s not a good idea at all..... the issue shouldn’t be tommy. Jason shouldn’t be all that worried of tommy and SG being together...... If Jason could actually put up a better fight it’d be more fair 

maybe my timing wasn’t perfect de masking him out of stun but it’s just the point that you can de mask him right outta stun with Jason barely having any time to defend himself.

There are several players reporting to them that something needs changed but it seems they aren’t listening to us and what we have to say. Jason shouldn’t ever die just a few minutes into the round. That’s ridiculous. 

I don’t really rely on de masking right outta stun all the time. ik the timing might not have been perfect but it’s just to make a point most Jason’s don’t have much response time to defend themselves if you hit them out of stun whether you time it perfectly or a little too late. 

In my video Jason stood up at 10 or 10.5 seconds I hit and de masked at around 11 seconds. That’s only .5-1 second to respond and defend. Not enough time. Jason could use at least 3 seconds of damage immunity out of stuns

It's not that we aren't listening, it's that we're trying to account for ALL of the player base, not just some of it. Do you honestly feel that the ENTIRE player base finds it too easy to kill Jason? Because we can show ten times as many reports from players saying he is unstoppable post-Rage.

14 hours ago, Ahab said:

@DontZzz34 your video does not show how much damage Jason took before that point unfortunately... He could have been hit a few times before the shotgun blast, or stepped into beartraps, or been hit by a flare gun. I agree with you... It IS too easy to kill Jason, I have seen it done too many times, had it done to me too many times... and done it myself to other Jason players too many times to not believe it is too easy... but this video cannot be considered proof of that.
    Also... you don't need to be behind him for either hit, it works just as well from the front for the indefensible hit, and for kneeling him. I am not sure why people think you need to do it from behind... I never do it from behind and rarely fail... But remember, I also do not try to do it very often since I completed my badge for it way back when.

    @SirMang Although the indefensible hit was not timed to hit him directly out of the stun, it came barely a second later... There is no way he could have got into block that quick with how slow the response to block is if you are not the "host"... or "picker of the map" as the case may be... Before the engine upgrade, you could have gotten into block quick enough to block that one without an issue though. Back before it was slowed you could get into it almost instantly, now it takes more than a full second to get into block, unless you are the "host"... and that is not quick enough... Either way, if timed properly... there was no way we could get into block quick enough before it was slowed... and the timing is not difficult to achieve... DontZzz was just a bit off with that hit.

    What is needed here is a video from Jason's perspective from the start, up to the kill... like one of Mr. Mang's kills for instance. 3:12 is pretty damned quick Mr. Mang… but it would still have to be shown from Jason's perspective to show exactly how much damage he took before the kill attempt... and how few hits it actually takes to get the mask off... and several of these videos from one night of play (in a row with no breaks to prove they were all in a row) would illustrate the simplicity of it much better than one video... whether from Jason's perspective, or the hunter's perspective... But if it is from the hunter's perspective, we can never be 100% sure just how much damage Jason took before they ran into him.
    Either way, it is hard to expect them to watch long videos to prove this... or many short videos to prove this... One video really proves nothing... For all they know, it took you hundreds of attempt to do it. Find the stream of a Jason hunter that does nothing but try and kill Jason... and it will show you how easy it is just by the number of successes vs attempts over a few hours of play from one hunter's perspective.
    From what Matt said in Tuesday's stream, he thinks it is hard to kill Jason because he has never lost his mask and considers himself to not be a great Jason player... so he shrugged his shoulders and ignored it. But playing against a couple of kill squads in a row is a pretty easy way to change someone's mind too. They are looking at it from their perspective... not from ours... They need actual proof of the ease of the kill, and that means consistent kills over the course of several games in a row from ONE player's perspective. Also... you have to actually play against players that are actually trying to kill Jason in every match they play.

    As I said above, your timing was a bit off... but as it stands now with block, there was still no defending against that. The timing is NOT difficult to achieve consistently to hit him immediately as he comes out of the stun, and that IS and always has been INDEFENSIBLE.

   Poles and threads are not evidence... People lie, people exaggerate... so these things cannot be considered evidence... but they can be considered "opinion"... I am with you... I know how easy it is... but to a non believer like @mattshotcha… he needs undeniable proof... and that takes time on his part... and he is a busy, busy man.
   To prove this would require a commitment of time on his part to either play against a half decent kill squad of even just 2 players... or to watch several hours of play from a kill squad that streams their games as I stated above... But... is the kill squad they are playing against here actually trying to prove it is easy... or are they going to make it look difficult so all of us look like liars?
   I could ask @Ambiguously gay batman if she still has a stream of us playing with @GeneiJin for a few hours... but using the best of the Jason hunters that I have seen to prove it is easy is also... NOT proving it is easy for everyone... even if he is technically the only Jason hunter in our group.

    I agree... but... it is all really just our word, and a few videos of one kill here and there. There are also a great many people that claim it is hard and we are just a bunch of crybaby Jason mains... Just check out the steam comunity for that crap... or you can look above this post at @Strigoi's post. I am sure a few others like him will pop into this thread at some point as well.

The people who don't agree don't always feel welcome to voice their opinions due to the reactions of those who do. It tends to turn into ridicule rather quickly.

14 hours ago, SirMang said:

@Ahab  3:12 is optimal conditions, fastest possible that I know of, one in a thousand type of thing.  I'm not gonna exaggerate and say it can happen that fast all the time.  We've had several kills in under 4 minutes, probably a couple dozen in total.  But when we're in the Jason killing mode, by the 6 minute mark, Jason is dead 9 times out of 10.  Since there's only 3 of us doing this, there is account for a random coming back as Tommy or Jason simply hiding the rest of the match once his mask is off. 

@Strigoi you have constant posts saying killing Jason is too difficult.  Do you not play that often?  Is your skill level not that good?  Do you load into QP by yourself?  Do you not have a couple players with you who are willing to just die once the mask is off?  Are you hitting Jason repeatedly with a baseball wondering why the mask won't come off?  I'm trying to figure out why you think it's so difficult.   Fact of the matter is one CS heavy axe shot from Buggzy is gonna de-mask a part 9 Jason every time, any other Jason one attack from any other weapon/bear trap plus that axe shot is de-masking Jason.  That's not opinion, it's fact and proven in videos.  

Don't shame other forum members for their opinion here. 

14 hours ago, DontZzz34 said:

I understand where you’re coming from. A video from a Jason players perspective would be the best evidence possible. In my video even if Jason took a bear trap or 1 machete strike. If I applied potent ranger+thrasher perks Jason’s mask would’ve still easily been off in that 1 hit even without much prior damage dealt. But Jason losing his mask easily didn’t seem like much of a balance issue according to Matt. I’m not sure why he thinks that bc then all it takes is sg+tommy together and Jason is more than likely dead. And it doesn’t take a lot to press y. RT as tommy and press A. 

I think the best way is what you said, for @mattshotcha to play as jason and go against a good kill squad for a few rounds. He would see firsthand how unfair of a fight Jason has on keeping his mask and not dying to them. Another idea is Matt joining a kill squad for a few games and killing Jason with them..... Even watching a kill squads stream would help to get them to understand where we’re all coming from. Or even someone making a video and posting it here with as much evidence as possible. Showing all the damage dealt from a-z

I play as Jason, I watch a ton of footage. I watch a ton of videos from people saying it is too easy. More on that after quotes.

14 hours ago, DontZzz34 said:

Use buggzy apply slugger+thrasher. Find axe throw fireworks. Stun Jason with fireworks and hit him right out of stun. Mask should come off with just that alone. A lot of swipes? Your hits must be coming from the axe with a low strength counselor and it’s just doing stuns. Stuns don’t do a whole lot of damage. 

You can even de mask with Tiffany with only about 4 machete strikes. 

Again, specific parameters.

13 hours ago, Seraphic King said:

I do want to add that due to the kill being so easy, it is scaring new players away. I’ve asked this in a previous post of mine, “what is the point in killing new Jasons.

You’ve got, Level 150s ganging up and taking out new Jasons one by one. Now, usually I would say to those new players that you just have to get better but for real tho, what is “better”😂? Realizing that blocking is useless? Spending hours playing offline mode, taking pictures of the map so you can figure out where the Tommy box should be (Still 50/50 chance you’ll get it) 

I won’t get scared away but I will say that that shit ain’t fun 😂 I mean before I knew the cheap tactics these kill squads used I wanted to fight them because it was fun.

Here is the real issue with the topic. Those same new Jason players also play as counselors. See where I'm going with this?

13 hours ago, thrawn3054 said:

I've seen Vanessa's demask with 4 hits from a machete. That is not hard to pull off. The kill is like everything in this game. If you have a competent group of counselors it's pretty easy to do. Pulling off things solo is harder, but not that hard.

@Ahab I know for sure that at least Shifty knows how easy the kill is. He used to hop into Slash'n Cast's streams all the time. Killing Jason was all they did.

Again, though. They represent a portion of the player base and not all of it.

13 hours ago, Dragonfire82877 said:

You don’t even need to have a group of competent counselors to make the Jason kill easy. I have teamed up with just one other random several times since the rage buff to pull off an excessively easy Jason kill.

All this talk about Jason being too hard to kill is hilarious. I can’t help but laugh out loud while reading how someone honestly thinks Jason is so hard to kill, and he is overpowered to the point counselor’s need more buffs and more weapons to pull off a kill. 

Again, there's players here who disagree. Shaming them with "get good" rhetoric is not going to earn anyone favor in this topic.

11 hours ago, Fair Play said:

If people keep submitting video evidence of Jason's all too easy demise, perhaps we can get the changes needed.

#GiveJasonHisReputationBack #JasonBackOnTop

No Jason (scrub or otherwise) should be unmasked that easily.

This is the fact of the day, and the week.

What evidence do you have to support your "factual statement"?

I chose to create a poll for that topic, due to the fact that it was a topic that was popping up and derailing a number of other topics.

I believe the people here have made their stance on the matter well known. Hopefully the developers will take that information into consideration when making any upcoming changes within the game.

If it is, I'm not laughing.

Could you submit some video footage of one of your typical matches? I think if you could do this, perhaps a few more people could see where you are coming from with your view on the matter.

In the last day or so, I've run into 6 or 7 people who now refuse to play as Jason due to how easy it is to be killed as him.

A word of advice, never ever presume to speak for everyone on this or any other forum.

By the way, I highly doubt Gun Media is planning on adding any new modes to the game, due to the lawsuit.

Perhaps the newest of players may think Jason is too hard to kill. They'll change their tune after a while.

Many of us here are in the same boat.

Varying degrees of experience, etc. Again, look at the Rage topic for a hint into where the community as a whole is. 

9 hours ago, F134Ever86 said:

Brushing off how easy it is to kill Jason is probably their way of saying that it will cost too much and take too much time and create too many bugs.

No, I would simply say that if it were the case.

7 hours ago, Jax00 said:

The kill is only ever easy when planned, but TBH there's a bigger problem with counselors not being able to regain stamina from hitting Jason in rage mode... Even if you can when you hit him it still doesn't stun him so you get rendered pretty useless when it comes to stamina and regen unless your on a stacked counselor and even then I mean really. I'm finding myself forcing to run all stamina perks because more than half the time I'm dying to running out of it because no one seems to know how to play the game when it's fairly simple. Just an opinion... But I've started to dislike this game slowly more and more since the Jason Nerf. It makes it way too frustrating because its nice for Jason to become as invincible as he should be, but at the same time it never balanced out the counselors to be slightly better stat wise to be in rage mode.

What Jason nerf are you speaking of?

2 hours ago, DontZzz34 said:

Be careful with that if Jason spams grab back to back I’m pretty sure he can grab you before you have time to get out of grab range. Unless you do the hit and dodge method. That usually works well 

I’ve killed Jason with several randoms of a spur of the moment thing unplanned and not communicated successfully several times. It only fails if the tommy player is a complete bonehead. This kill is overall just too easy

And what counselor do you run? Instead of stamina perks try managing stamina more and using swift attacker to save your life when you need it. Hit+dodge method when dry on stamina can help get you to the next window and it’s even better if it de masks him for a stun

 

Against an inexperienced Roy. Fun fact, Roy and other "Human Jason" characters have the least "health" (for lack of a better term) and are the easiest to knock the mask off of.

So the shorter replies are so that I can keep this confined to one blurb at the end of the comment. Here goes...

This forum is NOT representative of the entire player base. I know that sucks to hear, but you guys are more the minority at this point. Even if the entire active forum agreed on something, they wouldn't represent the majority of the player base. This isn't said to insult or sound shitty, it's vital to understanding my role at Gun. If my job were as easy as reading the forums and making recommendations based solely off that, I'd get to spend a lot more time with my daughter. All jokes aside, there is a lot more that goes into decision making in game. 

The topic of the mask plays into the greater topic of Jason and his power level. We recently made a major change to the power level of Jason by way of the Rage changes. The community is still in an adjustment period off of that change and making another sweeping change to Jason's strength is not an easy choice. We run the risk of potentially alienating the middle tier of players who may be on their way to killing a Jason or two, but not quite finding it as easy as some of you all do.

Furthermore, I have yet to see one of these "It's too easy to kill Jason" videos that do not have some kind of particular parameters involved. Human Jason players, such as Part 2 or Roy have a much lower threshold to the mask, skill gap differences, optimal kill scenario off the jump, and on and on. Saying things like find an axe, find a pocket knife, find firecrackers, then bam go kill Jason is not proving the case. These are specific parameters. And yes, I've watched kill squads go and kill multiple Jasons in an evening. But those details are always in line. Are the kill squads always matched up against similar skill level players? Are they running across primarily Human Jason players? Are they in a coordinated group? Etc. And this is not even accounting for the decisions you see these Jason players make in the clips. A Roy Jason or Part 2 Jason walking up on a Sweater Girl, Tommy, and two strong counselors is already enough to tell me it's not a good representation of the situation because why. Why would the Jason player walk into that fight? So please do watch these supposed evidence videos without the bias glasses and tell me if you truly feel they are illustrating your point as clearly as you claim. Because they aren't. Running down an inexperienced Jason and saying we should make the kill more difficult is not proof of anything more than a skill gap that is unavoidable this late in the game's life where we have new players every sale and old players sticking around since launch. 

There is still, even then, a significant amount of chance involved, and overcoming that chance for some vs others is not a crippling balance issue. Using particular counselors, with particular perks, with particular weapon pick ups still requires getting the Tommy call, getting a best scenario Jason adversary, and completing the process. While that is not necessarily difficult, these videos showing it happen quickly or people claiming to do it in minutes are usually a fair amount of those parameters coming up quite lucky. Acting as if it is a simple button press is reductive, and actually weakens the argument. It's like saying becoming a millionaire is as easy as depositing a check for a million in your bank. There's much more to the process. 

It's tough to hear, and tough to admit, but YOUR experience in game is not EVERY player's experience. And just because there is an echo chamber here that says it should change, doesn't mean it actually should.

AND EVEN STILL we haven't said flat out NO, we won't change anything with the mask. We're simply saying this isn't a snap decision we'll make without giving it more thought. It's definitely not the "No-Brainer" that some claim it is, and certainly not a majority request.

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34 minutes ago, mattshotcha said:

First off, there is no accounting for what damage Jason took in the process of the 3 kills he did get in this match. As for the rest of the points I'll make, I'll share that at the end of the quoted section.

You do realize how perfect the parameters are in the scenario you detailed right? Not to mention the coordination of a squad? 

It's not that we aren't listening, it's that we're trying to account for ALL of the player base, not just some of it. Do you honestly feel that the ENTIRE player base finds it too easy to kill Jason? Because we can show ten times as many reports from players saying he is unstoppable post-Rage.

The people who don't agree don't always feel welcome to voice their opinions due to the reactions of those who do. It tends to turn into ridicule rather quickly.

Don't shame other forum members for their opinion here. 

I play as Jason, I watch a ton of footage. I watch a ton of videos from people saying it is too easy. More on that after quotes.

Again, specific parameters.

Here is the real issue with the topic. Those same new Jason players also play as counselors. See where I'm going with this?

Again, though. They represent a portion of the player base and not all of it.

Again, there's players here who disagree. Shaming them with "get good" rhetoric is not going to earn anyone favor in this topic.

Varying degrees of experience, etc. Again, look at the Rage topic for a hint into where the community as a whole is. 

No, I would simply say that if it were the case.

What Jason nerf are you speaking of?

Against an inexperienced Roy. Fun fact, Roy and other "Human Jason" characters have the least "health" (for lack of a better term) and are the easiest to knock the mask off of.

So the shorter replies are so that I can keep this confined to one blurb at the end of the comment. Here goes...

This forum is NOT representative of the entire player base. I know that sucks to hear, but you guys are more the minority at this point. Even if the entire active forum agreed on something, they wouldn't represent the majority of the player base. This isn't said to insult or sound shitty, it's vital to understanding my role at Gun. If my job were as easy as reading the forums and making recommendations based solely off that, I'd get to spend a lot more time with my daughter. All jokes aside, there is a lot more that goes into decision making in game. 

The topic of the mask plays into the greater topic of Jason and his power level. We recently made a major change to the power level of Jason by way of the Rage changes. The community is still in an adjustment period off of that change and making another sweeping change to Jason's strength is not an easy choice. We run the risk of potentially alienating the middle tier of players who may be on their way to killing a Jason or two, but not quite finding it as easy as some of you all do.

Furthermore, I have yet to see one of these "It's too easy to kill Jason" videos that do not have some kind of particular parameters involved. Human Jason players, such as Part 2 or Roy have a much lower threshold to the mask, skill gap differences, optimal kill scenario off the jump, and on and on. Saying things like find an axe, find a pocket knife, find firecrackers, then bam go kill Jason is not proving the case. These are specific parameters. And yes, I've watched kill squads go and kill multiple Jasons in an evening. But those details are always in line. Are the kill squads always matched up against similar skill level players? Are they running across primarily Human Jason players? Are they in a coordinated group? Etc. And this is not even accounting for the decisions you see these Jason players make in the clips. A Roy Jason or Part 2 Jason walking up on a Sweater Girl, Tommy, and two strong counselors is already enough to tell me it's not a good representation of the situation because why. Why would the Jason player walk into that fight? So please do watch these supposed evidence videos without the bias glasses and tell me if you truly feel they are illustrating your point as clearly as you claim. Because they aren't. Running down an inexperienced Jason and saying we should make the kill more difficult is not proof of anything more than a skill gap that is unavoidable this late in the game's life where we have new players every sale and old players sticking around since launch. 

There is still, even then, a significant amount of chance involved, and overcoming that chance for some vs others is not a crippling balance issue. Using particular counselors, with particular perks, with particular weapon pick ups still requires getting the Tommy call, getting a best scenario Jason adversary, and completing the process. While that is not necessarily difficult, these videos showing it happen quickly or people claiming to do it in minutes are usually a fair amount of those parameters coming up quite lucky. Acting as if it is a simple button press is reductive, and actually weakens the argument. It's like saying becoming a millionaire is as easy as depositing a check for a million in your bank. There's much more to the process. 

It's tough to hear, and tough to admit, but YOUR experience in game is not EVERY player's experience. And just because there is an echo chamber here that says it should change, doesn't mean it actually should.

AND EVEN STILL we haven't said flat out NO, we won't change anything with the mask. We're simply saying this isn't a snap decision we'll make without giving it more thought. It's definitely not the "No-Brainer" that some claim it is, and certainly not a majority request.

@mattshotchaI don't want to fight you, but I'm honest, it's true that it's easy to kill him. You don't have to be very expert to achieve it.
In my humble opinion,
The suggestion of what everyone says increases HP's mask and, in case of anger, guns, firecrackers and flares can stun it. It also seems to me that Jason would need the quick lock, it's one of the most important things he could have

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@mattshotcha there is alot to unpack there. I'll start with my original point. I used Slash'n Cast as an example because they had a long track record of success with the kill. You're right that they don't represent everyone. Nor do the forum members. But that doesn't mean we are incorrect in our assessment.

As for the human Jason's being easier to kill the difference is negligible. A Buggzy with a machete will require one extra hit to remove the mask. That's why so many of us feel it's too easy. When one or two good shots with a machete is all it takes it's too easy. 

You are right that we are sometimes too harsh towards people with a different opinion on this. If someone can come up with a sound argument as to why we are wrong I'll be willing to change my position. 

I disagree that a mask hp buff would be harmful to new players. It will help new Jason's, and realistically new counselors shouldn't expect to be pulling off the kill.

Don't get me wrong. I understand why you guys are being cautious. I understand you are trying to think of the entire playerbase. But consider how many new players were ran off because they finally got to be Jason only to be killed. It would be disheartening and incredibly frustrating. I do think it is a mistake to draw parallels between the rage update and a mask buff. The rage update completely changed the late game. A mask buff would be a minor change.

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7 minutes ago, thrawn3054 said:

@mattshotcha there is alot to unpack there. I'll start with my original point. I used Slash'n Cast as an example because they had a long track record of success with the kill. You're right that they don't represent everyone. Nor do the forum members. But that doesn't mean we are incorrect in our assessment.

As for the human Jason's being easier to kill the difference is negligible. A Buggzy with a machete will require one extra hit to remove the mask. That's why so many of us feel it's too easy. When one or two good shots with a machete is all it takes it's too easy. 

You are right that we are sometimes too harsh towards people with a different opinion on this. If someone can come up with a sound argument as to why we are wrong I'll be willing to change my position. 

I disagree that a mask hp buff would be harmful to new players. It will help new Jason's, and realistically new counselors shouldn't expect to be pulling off the kill.

Don't get me wrong. I understand why you guys are being cautious. I understand you are trying to think of the entire playerbase. But consider how many new players were ran off because they finally got to be Jason only to be killed. It would be disheartening and incredibly frustrating. I do think it is a mistake to draw parallels between the rage update and a mask buff. The rage update completely changed the late game. A mask buff would be a minor change.

Yes, I am drawing the two items closer than is completely fair, but it's still reason to pause at the least. These types of skill gaps are tricky to navigate, and definitely require more than a snap decision, though. I think it requires significant testing and analyzing the specifics though. Because if a mask coming off starts to require enough hits to push a Jason into Rage, we're going to see an opposite effect.

Sure, players realize that different Jason characters have different values to the mask, but how many people will get tripped up into wailing away on a mask and pushing Rage? Will this affect the picks on Jason? How will this play to mid tier players? Maybe players who don't run the very specific parameters and combos of counselor and perk will be back to beating up on Jason, pushing Rage in an attempt to de-mask? There's a hell of a lot more to this than just add mask hp. That's more my point. This may well be more frustrating to newer players than occasionally running into a kill squad, especially since they can adjust to the kill squad encounter a hell of a lot more likely than a hard value change. Because if you're a newer player running counselor trying to fix a car, and some mid tier player who is going for a kill is going to push Jason into Rage, say maybe before Tommy is in or what have you, I think that would be pretty infuriating as well. 

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1 hour ago, mattshotcha said:

certainly not a majority request.

Certainly appears that way just going by the replies on this thread alone.  If not a mask durability increase how about reverting combat stance back to it's original state at launch and give us back meat shielding those 2 things would help matters a little bit.

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@mattshotcha

You do have a point on how we could be a minority opinion of the state of the game and state of the Jason kill.  There are people who still think, for whatever reason, Jason is big and scary and OP.  Sometimes we lose sight of the fact that there are people who think the rage buff, for example, makes Jason way too strong and should be tweaked/changed/thrown out.  So maybe our opinion that killing Jason is too easy or the easiest win parameter in the game isn't fully the truth.

That all being said, my example of de-masking isn't a coordinated group, it's just me.  Sure I'm getting optimal conditions to de-mask in the first 30 seconds but even without them I can go find an axe or machete and then just start hunting Jason. To me, there is something wrong when I, or others, can go out hunting Jason in the first minute or two of the round.  And then when I find him, he's usually messing around with someone else so I have protection from another player if he grabs me, or slashes at us, or whatever the case may be.  Either way, it's just me going out on the hunt and me taking the mask off. 

Then there's always the group of people who for whatever reason will gang up and just beat on Jason relentlessly whenever he finds them.  They're gonna luck into knocking his mask off quickly without any coordination nor care.  You put one smart female character in that lobby and she's off to grab the sweater. Then it just turns into trying to get a random Tommy to follow the lead.  It's a 50/50 proposition getting that to work.

We were told at the beginning of the game's lifespan that killing Jason was a rare occurrence.  One of every 70 games or so was what was touted.  Problem is that's no longer anywhere near the case.

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@mattshotcha if the Jason kill wasn’t OP and broken for counselors kill squads wouldn’t have a ridiculously high success rate in killing Jason. I’m sorry, but we’re all players who PLAY the game. We see this firsthand that killing Jason is TOO easy more then you do. You clearly don’t see the struggle Jason has to go through. One game as jason I get sweater girl limping 3 times! Almost killed her I blocked and dodged every swing!!! They manage to hit me ONE time out of block and mask comes off and I die. If you’re gonna ask me anything, I’d say that’s a load of bullshit. I put up a way better fight then they did and shouldn’t have died. 

Be jason against a good kill squad then come back and talk to me about “balance.” This is insanity how much you aren’t even putting any of what we have to say into consideration. Game balance is obviously something you guys lack at doing. Before, several pk’s, guns, and 50% thick skin? Idk why you guys even thought that level of damage resistance was okay but it’s beyond me. Same thing goes with the Jason kill. Why would something as broken and OP as 1 hit de masks even be allowed in the game????!!!!! It’s not even fair. 

And I've killed several experienced Jason’s before as several other people have to. Even the best of the best Jason’s have died plenty of times. 

I’m sorry, but we’re all the ones in the right here and we know what we’re talking about. 90% success rate in killing Jason is enough information to tell you it’s way too one sided with the counselors. The counselors have the upper hand when it comes to killing Jason and that is a fact. No one can deny that is the case here. Jason has been killed one too many times in his own game that proves you are wrong. 

When the mask is off and the only thing now I have to do to is kill Jason with one another only involves Y, RT, and A. Lol

I truly believe the only thing to get you to agree with us is play as jason against a good kill squad. That could be something you stream. Please do it. 

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7 minutes ago, SirMang said:

One of every 70 games or so was what was touted.  Problem is that's no longer anywhere near the case.

That was by the people who actually programmed the game too so take that into account , to the general game player even the most expert it should be more toward  1 in 100. It's more like 1 in 7 now instead of 1 in 70-100 matches.

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Just my opinion, but the game would be better if killing Jason wasn't even an option.

I admit I'm likely in the minority here. 

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6 minutes ago, Seraphic King said:

 I can show you how many hits it takes to demask Jason. And what kill squads do to demask real quickly 

@mattshotcha

The more vids the better

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Which Jason has the most mask durability besides Savini? Use him as the test subject.I'm guessing either part 7 or 8.

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1 minute ago, TimDuke 01 said:

Which Jason has the most mask durability besides Savini? Use him as the test subject.I'm guessing either part 7 or 8.

Honestly I don't think there's any difference in any of the Jason's in mask durability besides part 9 being a minus HP. 

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