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U_r_rexdale

Vanessa - god mode

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2 hours ago, mike-hannigan said:

I rolled an epic +25%   -15% on PS4 but sold it once I got a legendary one with +22   -5   +3 %.

+3% what? I would not have sold it personally. The repair slowing is a great benefit. I see it as a double buff.

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On 8/27/2019 at 11:46 AM, U_r_rexdale said:

She is the best by far. Every other character (aside from Tommy) are second rate in comparison.

   Vanessa is pretty much always the first to fall in my Jason games, and almost never the last alive. Her sound pings are obvious as to who is making them, she falls into fear VERY quickly even with Nerves of Steel (still the best perk in the game for other reasons) and then has minimal stamina regeneration even if you use restful... and at that point she is stumbling so much she is now an easy target. She can't avoid a quick throw any better than any other counselor... and falls to a shift grab as easily as any other counselor does.

    Its all about the player behind the counselor, just as it is the player behind the Jason variant... But even the best counselor players I know fall easier when they play Vanessa compared to when they play Jenny. Speed is not everything in this game and neither is stamina or other counselors would never escape... and speed and stamina are all that Vanessa has going for her.

On 8/27/2019 at 12:02 PM, gtdjlocker311 said:

If stealth were more useful, and having poor stealth were more harmful, then Vanessa would lose some of her OP-ness.

   The stealth system works great, and has saved my A.J. from damned good Jason players more times than I care to count. Stealth needs no buff, the player just needs the patience to use it properly. Buff stealth and Jason will almost never stop me... that would be damned boring.
   As a Jason player, I can tell you there is no nerf to Vanessa's stealth that will make her easier to find, she is already the easiest to find in every match I have ever played. 
   No counselor needs any more buffs... and no counselors need any nerfs. They are just fine as they are.

On 8/27/2019 at 1:16 PM, DontZzz34 said:

Guys come on seriously quit acting like Jason has no chance against a lobby full of them. I’ve went against several full lobbies of skilled teams with Vanessa and killed em all many times. Was hard yes but impossible? No

   I have played against full lobbies of Vanessa's enough times to say its pretty boring and usually over pretty quick. They usually just group up and try to use Jason as a piñata and all fall damned quickly... as long as you know how to fight them off effectively that is... But of course, you have to watch for sound pings in the direction of your shack as this often means they are also trying to get Jason's mask off for a kill... It is always a lone Vanessa that headed over there long before Tommy could show up and is an easy target with or without stalk... and if she grabbed the sweater before you kill her, so much the better... Either way, a lobby that want to play all Vanessa's will ALL be slashed to death, with a few throwing knives mixed in there as well. Players like that want to play like that are not worthy of a grab kill.

   The only other full lobby of septuplets I have ever faced was a lobby full of A.J.s. They lasted WAY longer than any lobby full of Vanessas that I have ever faced... If I was not so good at catching cars, it would have been a mass exodus... but I did manage to kill them all... Their biggest mistake was trying to fight over the car while I stood beside the driver's door... that never works out well unless the driver uses grease monkey... which is the only way to get the car going before Jason comes out of his stun and grabs the driver... That was a good game and they really made me work for those kills. This only happened once though, but still sticks out in my memory as far more fun than slashing down seven Vanessas.
    If I do run into a lobby with seven Vanessas these days, I just leave... I like to actually get stuff done and try to escape... and I know they will not be helping me with this at all. And if I get picked as Jason, it will just be a boring slog... but at least it will be over quickly... it always is... for me at least. But a lobby full of repair counselors will make you work hard for it... and I find that more amusing.

On 8/27/2019 at 3:20 PM, dandop1984 said:

I do think Vanessa needs a slight nerf, or buff stealth counsellors and nerf -sense Jason’s. Even better do all three.

   She doesn't need any nerfs... Vanessa is not a goddess and is incredibly easy to find in any game unless she is hiding or standing still. She is no harder to kill than any other counselor either.
    Stealth needs no buffs... as I said above, it works fine... IF the player has the patience to use it properly.... Nerf sense in ANY way and you also nerf stalk... stalk is HEAVILY reliant on sense to be effective... so no thank you.

6 hours ago, Fair Play said:

In the end, it's not the counselor that makes the difference, it's the player in control of the counselor.

    I could not have said it better myself... I did say it... and have said it many times... I just couldn't have said it better. I leave the eloquence to you.
    And I agree.... @HaHaTrumpWon gave very good advice there.

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6 hours ago, Fair Play said:

In the end, it's not the counselor that makes the difference, it's the player in control of the counselor.

Very sound advice right here.

I know it's a little time consuming, but it doesn't take near as long breaking into a cabin, then breaking into the "inner" part of the cabin, then watching the Vanessa stand still until you get close but then hop out of the window at the last minute, then Morphing outside to try and intercept her only to watch her jump into a different cabin and immediately lock everything up and get ready to do it all over again. Even if you have Rage and just Hulk your way through doors and walls, you will still not be fast enough to break into the room before she has time to jump out.

Or you could just try this and abort most of the cabin-hopping:

 

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3 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

+3% what? I would not have sold it personally. The repair slowing is a great benefit. I see it as a double buff.

+3% faster sprint speed. Sorry should've clarified in my first post.

I kinda regretted selling it but ran out of slots and needed to roll more perks >.>

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2 hours ago, HaHaTrumpWon said:

I know it's a little time consuming, but it doesn't take near as long breaking into a cabin, then breaking into the "inner" part of the cabin, then watching the Vanessa stand still until you get close but then hop out of the window at the last minute, then Morphing outside to try and intercept her only to watch her jump into a different cabin and immediately lock everything up and get ready to do it all over again. Even if you have Rage and just Hulk your way through doors and walls, you will still not be fast enough to break into the room before she has time to jump out.

I don't mind the time consuming part. I'm a patient player, and will get the kills by any legitimate means necessary.

Thanks for the kind words @Ahab.

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12 hours ago, Ahab said:

   Vanessa is pretty much always the first to fall in my Jason games, and almost never the last alive. Her sound pings are obvious as to who is making them, she falls into fear VERY quickly even with Nerves of Steel (still the best perk in the game for other reasons) and then has minimal stamina regeneration even if you use restful... and at that point she is stumbling so much she is now an easy target. She can't avoid a quick throw any better than any other counselor... and falls to a shift grab as easily as any other counselor does.


   

   She doesn't need any nerfs... Vanessa is not a goddess and is incredibly easy to find in any game unless she is hiding or standing still. She is no harder to kill than any other counselor either.
    Stealth needs no buffs... as I said above, it works fine... IF the player has the patience to use it properly.... Nerf sense in ANY way and you also nerf stalk... stalk is HEAVILY reliant on sense to be effective... so no thank you.

    I could not have said it better myself... I did say it... and have said it many times... I just couldn't have said it better. I leave the eloquence to you.
    And I agree.... @HaHaTrumpWon gave very good advice there.

Just because you do well with Stealth Counsellors, and kill Vanessa's with ease doesn't mean the game may not require balance adjustments. Personally I also do well with Jenny, AJ and Lachappa, but again, that doesn't matter, as to balance a game, we need to take into consideration the overall player base, and established meta.

I play a lot of First person shooters, like Battlefield, COD and Battlefront. They are games with classes, and weapons, it's very common to find one class out performing all other classes, or a weak class struggling. Some weapons are Cleary OP, while others are duds. Balance and adjustments are a good thing, and they level the playing field, while still maintaining variety in play styles.

In regards to F13 if GUN has the data. I would not be at all surprised if the  vast majority of the population  plays Vanesssa as Counsellor and Part 3,8 Jason's. Now depending on their data they could also see the survival rate of specific counsellors, and kill rate of Jasons.

From my experience. I see an overwhelming amount of people play Vanessa, and Part 3,8 Jasons. And judging by the topics on this forum, alot of people would agree.

 

Now in regards to some balance changes I suggested, this is simply to level the playing field of the counsellors, and to make All counsellors a viable pick...... again doesnt matter if I already do well with Lachappa, this is about the overall player-base.

This can be done and STILL maintain variety in play styes, and in fact this would enhance that variety. As we would hopefully see more lobbies with a mix of counsellors.

Same goes for Jason. I'm so tired of seeing part3,8 dominate lobbies. I prefer Part 4, as he's a high skill level hard to master Jason, and is fun to play. But again it doesn't matter if I kill lobbies of Vanesa's as part 4, the reality is a majority of the player base struggles with part 4, and they pick the easiest to use Jason, such as part 3,8

Part 4,2 and 6 in my opinion are well designed Jasons. They have clear strengths and Weaknesses, and I wish that's how all Jasons played. 

Part 3,8 and some extent part 5 are essentially Jack of all trades Jasons. Their weaknesses are almost non-existant. So when I say the  -Sense stat should be nerfed, it's to put parts 3,8 on a level playing field as part 4,2,6 while maintaining a strong variety in play style, with a clear sense of strength and weakness.

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12 hours ago, HaHaTrumpWon said:

Or you could just try this and abort most of the cabin-hopping:

   Double dumbass edition indeed... that was funny.
   I smash down all door and break all window that I can at the beginning of a match... It saves time doing it later... hurts them if they have to jump out a window... and leaves the cabin open for shifting inside after them. I continue to smash down door and break windows when I have nothing better to do for the same reason... it is just more efficient than doing it while in a chase.
 

4 minutes ago, dandop1984 said:

Just because you do well with Stealth Counsellors, and kill Vanessa's with ease doesn't mean the game may not require balance adjustments. Personally I also do well with Jenny, AJ and Lachappa, but again, that doesn't matter, as to balance a game, we need to take into consideration the overall player base, and established meta.

    The overall player base thinks stealth should make you into a super powered invisible ninja... with no sound pings when running, and invisible to Jason's sense at all times... It work fine IF you have the patience to use it properly... Its not going to save you in every match, and neither should it... and neither should ANYTHING else... But the people that complain about it sure seem to think it should save them in every match or its worthless. And I AM NOT the only player that does well with it... I have several friends that do far better with it than I do.
     Try playing a match as Jason without using sense... and see how you do... against players of even just mediocre skill. Try to find a player that is not using sense avoidance perks and not giving off sound pings on a large map... unless Jason gets lucky with a morph close to them, he has NO IDEA where to morph to just to look for them. Even in rage, the range of sense IS NOT as huge as most players think. And if sense is nerfed to make stealth more viable on small maps, it will be WAY too huge of a buff to stealth on large maps... BALANCE... There has to be BALANCE.
     Listening to the overall player base led to the great Jason nerf of 2017... it was a mistake to listen top them then, and it is a mistake to listen to them now... Why is this you ask?... Most players do not consider the asymmetrical balance (or balance AT ALL for that matter) and just want buffs for their favorite side (usually counselors) to make something that is already easy be pushed towards that thing being even easier.
    If EVEN ONE player can do well with something like stealth... then it does not need any adjustment. People need to learn patience and how it actually works... and not expect one tiny little mechanic in a game to guarantee them a win in EVERY match.... Seriously, I see Vanessa players screaming "How the frick did you find me you frickin' hacker!!!!" while they run around at top speed emitting so many sound pings a blind man would see them... and I am talking players that are level 150 and should damned well know better... These are NOT the types of player ANYONE should listen to when considering ANY balance changes... Why the hell would someone think stealth should help a counselor that has the lowest stealth score? DEFINATELY not a player ANYONE should listen to on this subject... is it?
    It is about the player behind the counselor or Jason variant and how they play that counselor or Jason variant... that is it... The only adjustment needed now is to make killing Jason more difficult so we don't see him die in nine out of ten attempts to kill him... Literally everything else is fine once you learn how to use it and get some practice with it.

21 minutes ago, dandop1984 said:

I play a lot of First person shooters, 

    First person shooters are balanced equally between players and weapon damage... and everything else. They ARE NOT asymmetrically balanced games and CANNOT be used to compare balance IN ANY WAY to a game like this. But yes... a player that knows how to use ANY specific class well IS going to do better than people that do not know how to use the class they have chosen as well as that other person does... Even with that... it is about the player using that character... NOT the character they are using.

25 minutes ago, dandop1984 said:

In regards to F13 if GUN has the data. I would not be at all surprised if the  vast majority of the population  plays Vanesssa as Counsellor and Part 3,8 Jason's. Now depending on their data they could also see the survival rate of specific counsellors, and kill rate of Jasons.

    Being every match is very situational to begin with... and every match has differing skill levels of players playing counselor they prefer or don't prefer... and Jason variants they prefer or don't prefer... this skews the information MUCH more than you would think... How exactly do you get the kill rates for Jason accurately for instance?... Can you read the mind of the Tommy player to know if he even wants to bother with an attempt?... Can you read the mind of the player that grabbed the sweater to know if she grabbed it to use in an attempt?... or grabbed it for shits and giggles?.... or grabbed it to prevent a bunch of ignorant trolls from attempting to kill Jason... There is literally no way to track this information and give numbers that could be used as reliable in ANY way as non of these instances can be counted towards attempts to kill Jason, and if they were... your results are skewed and irrelevant.
    Actual attempts vs actual Jason kills... this is what you would need. Just with what I pointed out above... exactly how do you come up with an actual number here that actually means anything?
     Do you see 5 Vanessas in EVERY match... Somehow I doubt it. For the VAST majority to be playing Vannessa… the vast majority would have to be playing Vannessa… which would mean the vast majority of players would be seeing 5 Vanessa in every match WAY more often than not... 4 is too close to half to call a vast majority. Basic math skills are a must. I find it rather rare to see more than 2 Vanessas in ANY given match.

30 minutes ago, dandop1984 said:

From my experience. I see an overwhelming amount of people play Vanessa, and Part 3,8 Jasons. And judging by the topics on this forum, alot of people would agree.

    In my experience, I see mostly Parts 2, 3 and 9... with a spattering of Parts 6, 8 and 4... and sometimes Part 7 and 5.... and I play mostly with friends. Are you are trying to tell me you play with randoms and only see two variants?... That is laughable... I could take you seriously if you played with full lobbies of exactly the same people every night, who all play those two variants and no others, but not under ANY other circumstances... I see all Jasons variants over the course of any night... playing with friends or with all randoms… I listed them from the most popular that I see to the least popular I see... But even this changes sometimes and I see Roy more often than Parts 2, 3 and 9 some nights... I NEVER only see two variants in any one night of playing for the great many hours I have played in the last two years.
    And judging by how many people on these forums exaggerate everything they say.... and make baseless assumptions constantly... whether they agree or not is irrelevant... Facts need to be used, not opinions.

38 minutes ago, dandop1984 said:

Now in regards to some balance changes I suggested, this is simply to level the playing field of the counsellors, and to make All counsellors a viable pick...... again doesnt matter if I already do well with Lachappa, this is about the overall player-base.

    Overall.... since the rage buff.... I have seen more escapes happening than I EVER did before it was implemented... Exactly how many more escapes do you think players should be making?... I generally escape 6 or 7 times out of ten matches... and often take 3 other players with me in the car... and other nights I don't do so well and the opposite occurs... But I can't remember the last night I didn't get a minimum of 1 boat escape and more than 2 cars escapes... and several escapes to the cops. Half the time I die I just make it look like I am trying to run away... but I really needed a smoke, and had to die so I could go out and have one.
    Counselors need no more buffs... It is incredibly easy to kill Jason... and IF they work as a team, escapes WILL happen in EVERY match... Because players go into quick play by themselves and have a bunch of matches where no one did anything and the lobby was wiped out DOES NOT mean they need any buffs.

49 minutes ago, dandop1984 said:

Same goes for Jason. I'm so tired of seeing part3,8 dominate lobbies. I prefer Part 4, as he's a high skill level hard to master Jason, and is fun to play. But again it doesn't matter if I kill lobbies of Vanesa's as part 4, the reality is a majority of the player base struggles with part 4, and they pick the easiest to use Jason, such as part 3,8

   I have seen many awesome Jason players do extremely well with Part IV... and many other great Jason players do very poorly with him. He is almost universally agreed to be the "worst Jason" right now by players that want him to be made easier to play. He already IS easy to play if you know how to turn his weaknesses into non weaknesses... -Water Speed is irrelevant unless a boat gets started, which is rare from what I see anyway and I still catch them half the time anyway... -Shift is not a weakness if you use some discretion concerning when and how often you use it... and -Traps... all you need to do is get good at catching cars and don't waste your traps on cars. Protect the fuse box and let them take the cars, if you are good at stopping them, they will NOT escape anyway... and if they do, they earned it... That's literally it... He needs no buffs to make him easier to play, you just have to know how to play him.
    And yes, you can still have a poor kill count with him.... just like ANY other Jason. Miss one car, half the lobby is gone... it is that simple.

   Too many players rely on 5 (or 7) traps WAY too much to EVER do good with Part IV... or Part VII for that matter... But they can't demand more changes to Part VII, he was already changed... So it would be almost as ridiculous to demand further changes to Part VII as it is to demand changes to ANOTHER Jason after they already changed "the worst Jason" due to the player base complaining about him being "too hard to play"... and he never was too hard to play... it is all about the player that uses him, as it is with all other variants and counselors.
    Also... if they did cave in and change Part IV... which do you think players will call the worst Jason next?... Because this WILL happen, no matter what is done... players will always call one "the worst" and demand changes to it... Non of them should EVER have been changed in the first place, all that did is make players think they will change the next "worst Jason" if they cry enough about it.

   You are NEVER going to see players move away from the "meta" unless an even easier "meta" comes along... The players using it are choosing the best options for how they want to play and you will NEVER convince them to change how they play without giving them an even easier option.

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1 hour ago, Ahab said:

 

    The overall player base thinks stealth should make you into a super powered invisible ninja... with no sound pings when running, and invisible to Jason's sense at all times... It work fine IF you have the patience to use it properly... Its not going to save you in every match, and neither should it... and neither should ANYTHING else... But the people that complain about it sure seem to think it should save them in every match or its worthless. And I AM NOT the only player that does well with it... I have several friends that do far better with it than I do.
     Try playing a match as Jason without using sense... and see how you do... against players of even just mediocre skill. Try to find a player that is not using sense avoidance perks and not giving off sound pings on a large map... unless Jason gets lucky with a morph close to them, he has NO IDEA where to morph to just to look for them. Even in rage, the range of sense IS NOT as huge as most players think. And if sense is nerfed to make stealth more viable on small maps, it will be WAY too huge of a buff to stealth on large maps... BALANCE... There has to be BALANCE.

 

Obviously balance changes can be made without over buffing, or going to extreame lengths to make stealth counsellors into untraceable Ninja's. That's not what i'm suggesting, and any capable game developer would know the push and pull effect of buffs and nerfs.

When I refer to nerfing -Sense, it's only to -sense, so only part 3,8 would be affected. This would be considered a buff to normal and +sense jason's

Yes that's right. Part 3 and 8 would struggle finding counsellors, but still maintain a solid control of objectives, while part 7,6 would be be more viable at Hunting, but still suffer at objective control and that's the balance I'm talking about in terms of every Jason having clearly defined Strengths/Weaknesses.

Simple balance changes, are a good thing, and with the changes I'm suggesting would create a stronger emphasis on play style, and variety. And NO I don't want all Jason's playing the exact same. That's boring, and bad for the game.

 

1 hour ago, Ahab said:



   You are NEVER going to see players move away from the "meta" unless an even easier "meta" comes along... The players using it are choosing the best options for how they want to play and you will NEVER convince them to change how they play without giving them an even easier option.

"Meta" can be changed. If you simply take away the tools that sway casual players to take the easy road. And WHEN a new "Meta" forms the developers can steer it in a better direction with a higher skill Ceiling compared to the old "Meta"

 

1 hour ago, Ahab said:



   Too many players rely on 5 (or 7) traps WAY too much to EVER do good with Part IV... or Part VII for that matter... But they can't demand more changes to Part VII, he was already changed... So it would be almost as ridiculous to demand further changes to Part VII as it is to demand changes to ANOTHER Jason after they already changed "the worst Jason" due to the player base complaining about him being "too hard to play"... and he never was too hard to play... it is all about the player that uses him, as it is with all other variants and counselors.
 

What I'm suggesting would put further emphasis on what you just said "it's all about the player that uses him" I agree and that can be enhanced even more. 

On the whole. I do think Jason could use a buff in terms of HP and normal and +Stalk could use a boost.

1 hour ago, Ahab said:


    Also... if they did cave in and change Part IV... which do you think players will call the worst Jason next?... Because this WILL happen, no matter what is done... players will always call one "the worst" and demand changes to it... Non of them should EVER have been changed in the first place, all that did is make players think they will change the next "worst Jason" if they cry enough about it.
 

Personally I don't want a simple part 4 buff, I do think part 4 is currently well designed. In the past I think part 4 could use a change to either -traps, or -shift, but that would lose Part 4 play style, and make him to similar to other Jasons.

 Like I said earlier, I wish the Developers put a stronger emphasis on ALL Jasons strengths and weaknesses. And the same goes for Counsellors.

 I do think balance changes is possible, without lowering the skill level of good players, and without making Counsellor victories even easier.

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4 hours ago, dandop1984 said:

In regards to F13 if GUN has the data. I would not be at all surprised if the  vast majority of the population  plays Vanesssa as Counsellor and Part 3,8 Jason's. Now depending on their data they could also see the survival rate of specific counsellors, and kill rate of Jasons.

That would make for some interesting reading.

2 hours ago, dandop1984 said:

"Meta" can be changed. If you simply take away the tools that sway casual players to take the easy road. And WHEN a new "Meta" forms the developers can steer it in a better direction with a higher skill Ceiling compared to the old "Meta"

The meta should be changed from time to time, to keep a game like this from becoming completely stale. An occasional meta change couldn't hurt.

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3 hours ago, dandop1984 said:

 

 I do think balance changes is possible, without lowering the skill level of good players, and without making Counsellor victories even easier.

The only way this game could make counselor victories easier than it is right now, is it to just display the "you survived" screen right after we watch the opening cinematic.

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2 hours ago, Fair Play said:

That would make for some interesting reading.

The meta should be changed from time to time, to keep a game like this from becoming completely stale. An occasional meta change couldn't hurt.

I agree, and especially with the law suit and freeze on content. Doing worth while balance changes is a great way to keep things interesting.

imagine if for one week they gave Jason  a smaller music radius, and removed Jason off the map.

That would change up the game, it would be a fun event, and I think they could do that without it being considered new content. Then after a week or so they switch it back to normal.

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4 hours ago, dandop1984 said:

Obviously balance changes can be made without over buffing, or going to extreame lengths to make stealth counsellors into untraceable Ninja's.

   How is it obvious exactly? To me, the opposite is obvious... and we can use the track record of buffs and nerfs since the game went live to prove you wrong here. Balance is pretty good right now... other than the ease of a Jason kill that is supposed to be both difficult and rare... it is actually easy and common... go figure.
   Buffing the stealth system will leave those players that know how to use it now as super powered ninja's, so you may as well add in a ninja outfit for A.J. at that point. I am all for it... why not... and I will be the first one to point out how wrong everyone was about stealth needing a buff after the Jason players start freaking out about it.... and I will also be saying "I told ya so" to everyone as well... Just to be clear... I am not all for it. I am against anything that will throw the balance that far over to EITHER side.
   Players that refuse to use patience with it will never be successful with it even if they know how it works... Just how many people do you know with any real level of patience?... IF you have patience and the knowledge to use it... it works great... Why exactly does it need a buff when it does already work great? Most of the time, being you cannot see Jason's screen during his game.... you will not even know when it saved you. The only time you do know for sure... is when you are the last one alive and it takes Jason for ever to find you... or he just doesn't find you.
    Many players I have argued about this with come down to one simple fact... they tried it, and it didn't work for them... Yet, it works great for me and several others that I know... It is not a guarantee, and that is what most players I have argued about this with end up wanting... NO... it needs no buff... Players just have to learn patience and not expect it to get them out of every situation they get themselves into... that is not what it was meant to do... It is meant to leave Jason guessing where you are as he has no sound pings to track you with... but no one wants to jog, they all want to run... and some that do have the patience to jog want it to work on a character like Vanessa... Just... NO.

   All counselors are designed around different playstyles already... so are all Jason variants... and they are best used by players that use the playstyle that a specific character is designed for already. They do not need to be changed... People want it changed because they want to use a different playstyle with their favorite character... Players do not want variety... they want it made easier for them than it already is... This is blatantly obvious with the behavior of many members of the community and the metas that they already use... Discussing it long enough always brings out their motives.
   The only way you are changing any of the "metas" here is to either take the option to use certain perks away completely... or give them even better perks than medic and thick skin... Taking the meta away will kill the counselor only members of the player base... and giving them tools to do even better than the current metas will frustrate too many Jason players to the point of "Why am I even bothering any more?"... Either way, it is a perfect way to bury this game for good.
    I also never said you wanted all Jasons to play the same... they currently do not all play the same... and each of them IS a beast already in the right hands... So once again... Why change them?... And then after they do change one... we can have this argument all over again with the next "worst Jason" the moment players start demanding that one be changed... which will happen just as quick as last time they changed the worst Jason... just like I said it would... and I said it MANY times... There was no need to be psychic to predict that one... or this one.
    I will say one thing though.... the playstyle I use for Part IV... when I use it on ANY other Jason, I wipe the lobbies out WAY quicker than I do with Part IV... and it makes playing the other variants way easier... But I generally stick to Part IV unless the random bug snags me an abomination Jason.

5 hours ago, dandop1984 said:

What I'm suggesting would put further emphasis on what you just said "it's all about the player that uses him" I agree and that can be enhanced even more. 

    It doesn't need further emphasis though... people just need to understand that it is about how you play whichever character... Many people do not understand this and no one can tell them otherwise because they are already correct in their own minds... But the evidence is all around them... Players that know how to use a specific character do consistently well with them... be they counselor or Jason variants... Everyone has good and bad games... each match is situational at best and can go either way off of one player making a mistake. No Jason player wipes out a lobby every time unless they are not playing against a co ordinated team... and no counselor survives every match even if they are playing with a co ordinated team... Sometimes, we ALL die first... and sometimes a squad of Jason hunters comes along and takes our mask... and we all know what happens after that... I could go on, but that should be more than enough.

5 hours ago, dandop1984 said:

Personally I don't want a simple part 4 buff, I do think part 4 is currently well designed. In the past I think part 4 could use a change to either -traps, or -shift, but that would lose Part 4 play style, and make him to similar to other Jasons.

   By the time I got around to unlocking Part IV... I was already good with -Traps from playing Part VII so much before that... -Shift didn't bother me at all because I was already used to it with Part VII (before the change)... and how often do we see players even bother with boats, even before it was given a start up warning for Jason?... That, and I have a great deal of experience with another game called Silent Hunter... manually programing torpedoes to hit ships that were faster than the torpedoes helped a lot with a slow water Jason catching a boat... Its all about angle of attack...  So -Water Speed has always been a non weakness for me. I like his strengths, and his weaknesses just don't bother me due to how I play him.
   When I started playing Part VII though (long before they changed him)… I thought he really sucked... but I liked the look of him and learned to play him... and his weaknesses were very similar to Part IV back then... so he was my trainer Jason for Part IV.

5 hours ago, dandop1984 said:

 Like I said earlier, I wish the Developers put a stronger emphasis on ALL Jasons strengths and weaknesses. And the same goes for Counsellors.
I do think balance changes is possible, without lowering the skill level of good players, and without making Counsellor victories even easier.

   Some of their strengths and weaknesses have more emphasis on them than many players realize already... Fear for instance... Jenny's greatest strength is not falling into fear very quickly... her stamina regeneration stays high, she doesn't stumble much even in high fear... But for Vanessa, it is her greatest weakness... all you have to do is hang around with her for a little while and she is stumbling like a drunken child... and an easy target with minimal stamina regeneration... have all the stamina in the world, if it takes too long to recharge... it is not helping you so much any more.... And stealth... many players just can't see how well it already does work... and they demand changes to it rather than trying to have some actual patience and use it properly.

    I love this game at least as much as you seem to... Some balance changes may work out well... some will not... But balancing this game has proven to be very difficult or we would have a better balance already... But not everyone is ever going to agree on what balance should be. I am merely against changes that I feel would throw balance too far to either side... I am also against certain changes that are just not necessary... like the entire "worst Jason" thing... I feel we are already pretty close to a perfect balance... beyond the ease of killing Jason... but I also don't want counselors nerfed into the ground to see the Jason kill made more difficult... Nor do I want buffs to Jason that would make it impossible to survive as a counselor.
 

2 hours ago, SirMang said:

The only way this game could make counselor victories easier than it is right now, is it to just display the "you survived" screen right after we watch the opening cinematic.

   Although this has happened many times... in fact, it happens every time the Jason player quits at the beginning of a match... This is not something I enjoy seeing.

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@Ahab I have to disagree that the stealth system doesn't need a buff. Unless you use A.J. stealth is not very useful as you still kick up sound pings. I'd like to see silent jogging be made possible for 8 stealth or higher characters. I think it would make stealth a more viable option for more players.

I think that people feel sense avoidance perks are under powered, because they're chance based, and Jason can just spam sense. Maybe a better approach to sense avoidance perks would be if the reduced the range at which Jason could sense you.

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2 hours ago, dandop1984 said:

I agree, and especially with the law suit and freeze on content. Doing worth while balance changes is a great way to keep things interesting.

imagine if for one week they gave Jason  a smaller music radius, and removed Jason off the map.

That would change up the game, it would be a fun event, and I think they could do that without it being considered new content. Then after a week or so they switch it back to normal.

Short term changes like that would prove interesting. Now, if only such a thing were to happen.

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17 hours ago, dandop1984 said:

imagine if for one week they gave Jason  a smaller music radius, and removed Jason off the map.

That would change up the game, it would be a fun event, and I think they could do that without it being considered new content. Then after a week or so they switch it back to normal.

    Short term changes like you propose here I would not be against at all, as long as non of them are too drastic... A smaller music radius is not too drastic... But I think completely removing Jason from the mini map might be a bit drastic.
    Short term changes would be good for testing many ideas for balancing the game better.

15 hours ago, thrawn3054 said:

@Ahab I have to disagree that the stealth system doesn't need a buff. Unless you use A.J. stealth is not very useful as you still kick up sound pings. I'd like to see silent jogging be made possible for 8 stealth or higher characters. I think it would make stealth a more viable option for more players. 

I think that people feel sense avoidance perks are under powered, because they're chance based, and Jason can just spam sense. Maybe a better approach to sense avoidance perks would be if the reduced the range at which Jason could sense you.

    Tiffany also has 10 stealth and no sound pings when jogging, does she not?
    Your idea for buffing stealth here is not nearly as drastic as most suggestions though... Being most players do not even have the patience to jog unless they absolutely have to, I don't think 8+ stealth having zero pings when jogging is too drastic... and may even encourage some players to have some patience... which also leads to better stamina management. This is the first idea I have seen for a buff to stealth that I don't think is too drastic... In fact, I like it.

    Also... Your idea for sense avoidance perks works for me too, and is also not too drastic as what most players propose for a buff... Your idea also works with the best way to use them in the first place... You have to keep your distance from Jason for them to be effective... IF he sees you close to him while in sense and you are not lit up, you just made yourself a priority target in my mind at least... If he does not see you and you are too close to him... just one sound ping while you are not lit up gives you away as well. A sound ping a bit further off can appear to be coming from someone out of sense range, but a closer ping that he sees while in sense gives away the player using these perks as well... and they become a priority target once again.
    These perks with the stealth system do work pretty good already, if you have the patience to not give off a sound ping in the first place... and IF you can stay out of Jason's line of sight. On a small map, sense avoidance perks do not help so much due to sense spamming... But on a large map, particularly Jarvis and Pinehurst... they can work wonders. Many Jason players think the range of sense is far larger than it is... sticking to the border of a large map and not giving off sound pings can make a player incredibly difficult to find... As soon as they enter a cabin, the sense spamming helps much more though... the cabin is much larger than the silhouette of a counselor and has a far greater chance to be within sense range.
     Sense spamming can only be done so many times as well before moving on to check another spot... Large maps and where you are on the map helps a lot here too... But many players would also like to see sense spamming removed to help sense avoidance... and that is a massive nerf to stalk... which is heavily reliant on sense to be effective.

     Also... sense avoidance perks are not meant to help you survive the night in this manner... The best use of them is to get shit done without being detected and get the hell out of that cursed campsite... But many players wanting sense avoidance and stealth buffed just want it to give them a free pass to survive the night while doing nothing... This is what I am against here... Free passes for doing nothing should NEVER be an option. Jason still needs a chance to find them... not just blind luck.
     But your idea to have Jason's range of sense detection reduced for the counselor using these perks is a good idea... Reduced by the total percentages of the combined perks I assume... I don't think that would be a bad thing... But would they be instantly detected by sense if they are within his range?... I think that should be in there... no chance to avoid sense detection if within range... otherwise, this starts to become a much more drastic buff... If they are outside a reduced sense range they already have 100% sense avoidance.
     The combined perks are better than 50%... and keeping your distance to avoid detection is a must with these perks already... There is still the entire cabin lighting up if you are in it too... One side of the cabin can be in sense range even if the counselor is on the far side of it and out of range... which is already a problem for sense avoidance and for stealth that many players ignore... This can give you away even if no sound pings were emitted and you technically are out of sense range... but the cabin is not out of sense range. 

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4 hours ago, Ahab said:

    Short term changes like you propose here I would not be against at all, as long as non of them are too drastic... A smaller music radius is not too drastic... But I think completely removing Jason from the mini map might be a bit drastic.
    Short term changes would be good for testing many ideas for balancing the game better.

    Tiffany also has 10 stealth and no sound pings when jogging, does she not?
    Your idea for buffing stealth here is not nearly as drastic as most suggestions though... Being most players do not even have the patience to jog unless they absolutely have to, I don't think 8+ stealth having zero pings when jogging is too drastic... and may even encourage some players to have some patience... which also leads to better stamina management. This is the first idea I have seen for a buff to stealth that I don't think is too drastic... In fact, I like it.

    Also... Your idea for sense avoidance perks works for me too, and is also not too drastic as what most players propose for a buff... Your idea also works with the best way to use them in the first place... You have to keep your distance from Jason for them to be effective... IF he sees you close to him while in sense and you are not lit up, you just made yourself a priority target in my mind at least... If he does not see you and you are too close to him... just one sound ping while you are not lit up gives you away as well. A sound ping a bit further off can appear to be coming from someone out of sense range, but a closer ping that he sees while in sense gives away the player using these perks as well... and they become a priority target once again.
    These perks with the stealth system do work pretty good already, if you have the patience to not give off a sound ping in the first place... and IF you can stay out of Jason's line of sight. On a small map, sense avoidance perks do not help so much due to sense spamming... But on a large map, particularly Jarvis and Pinehurst... they can work wonders. Many Jason players think the range of sense is far larger than it is... sticking to the border of a large map and not giving off sound pings can make a player incredibly difficult to find... As soon as they enter a cabin, the sense spamming helps much more though... the cabin is much larger than the silhouette of a counselor and has a far greater chance to be within sense range.
     Sense spamming can only be done so many times as well before moving on to check another spot... Large maps and where you are on the map helps a lot here too... But many players would also like to see sense spamming removed to help sense avoidance... and that is a massive nerf to stalk... which is heavily reliant on sense to be effective.

     Also... sense avoidance perks are not meant to help you survive the night in this manner... The best use of them is to get shit done without being detected and get the hell out of that cursed campsite... But many players wanting sense avoidance and stealth buffed just want it to give them a free pass to survive the night while doing nothing... This is what I am against here... Free passes for doing nothing should NEVER be an option. Jason still needs a chance to find them... not just blind luck.
     But your idea to have Jason's range of sense detection reduced for the counselor using these perks is a good idea... Reduced by the total percentages of the combined perks I assume... I don't think that would be a bad thing... But would they be instantly detected by sense if they are within his range?... I think that should be in there... no chance to avoid sense detection if within range... otherwise, this starts to become a much more drastic buff... If they are outside a reduced sense range they already have 100% sense avoidance.
     The combined perks are better than 50%... and keeping your distance to avoid detection is a must with these perks already... There is still the entire cabin lighting up if you are in it too... One side of the cabin can be in sense range even if the counselor is on the far side of it and out of range... which is already a problem for sense avoidance and for stealth that many players ignore... This can give you away even if no sound pings were emitted and you technically are out of sense range... but the cabin is not out of sense range. 

Tiffany has 10 stealth but I think she still kicks up sound pings while jogging. Or I could be mixing it up with lightfoot allowing A.J. to sprint without noise pings and it not working for Tiffany. I'll have to double check that. I think silent jogging from 8 or higher stats would be a help to those sneaky repair characters. It would also be a nice little buff for Shelly.

I was thinking that sense avoidance perks would only reduce range yes. If his sense range is 100 feet and you have a 25% reduction it would move his range to 75 feet for that counselor. I think alot of players would prefer a perk that works all the time rather than chance based.

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Vanessa Jones is not only high speed and stamina but can also steal sweaters

also, it's not impossible to repair. No need to select other characters

she need a nuff !!

luck and repair stat need to decrease 1

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16 hours ago, thrawn3054 said:

Tiffany has 10 stealth but I think she still kicks up sound pings while jogging. Or I could be mixing it up with lightfoot allowing A.J. to sprint without noise pings and it not working for Tiffany. I'll have to double check that. I think silent jogging from 8 or higher stats would be a help to those sneaky repair characters. It would also be a nice little buff for Shelly.

I was thinking that sense avoidance perks would only reduce range yes. If his sense range is 100 feet and you have a 25% reduction it would move his range to 75 feet for that counselor. I think alot of players would prefer a perk that works all the time rather than chance based.

   I will have to keep a closer eye on a Tiffany that I am chasing to be sure... Perhaps even ask a friend to jog around for a while near my Jason for a minute or two... that should be enough to be sure I think. I don't mind giving up a couple of kills to confirm something like this if I have to... But I won't be back in game until Sunday night or Monday.

   I think your idea for sense avoidance perks is pretty good... and might give players that extra edge they are looking for without being too over powered. All the perks together reducing Jason's sense range to under 50%... I don't remember the numbers right now... is more than enough to keep a player off his radar if they can stay out of his line of sight and keep some distance between Jason and themselves, and watch their sound pings... All of which are already required for them to be of use now anyway.

12 hours ago, [kor]jason said:

she need a nuff !!

   Vanessa needs no nerf... she dies just as easily as everyone else.

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Shes like Tommy with lower repair...not low enough though, still can easy with right skill check. Nerf her repair. She should be a 1 in repair like bugzy

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3 hours ago, PARTVI said:

Shes like Tommy with lower repair...not low enough though, still can easy with right skill check. Nerf her repair. She should be a 1 in repair like bugzy

Uhh no she's not.

She's loud as a herd of elephants trampling through a forest. She can't hide. Tommy can. 

Tommy can one hit demask. She can't. 

Tommy takes forever to reach full fear. Vanessa hits high fear very quickly.

She has lower luck. So longer car start times and less hits with a weapon.

She is in no way comparable to  Tommy simply because they're both fast with high stamina. 

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