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Jasons with +Stalk, should burn significantly less of the stalk time when moving while in stalk. 

Jasons that can run, should be slightly faster than a counselors jogging speed (Vanessa I’m looking at you) 

Jason should be able to pick up thrown knives depending on where it landed. If it landed on a hard surface then it should break but if landed on the ground. He should be able to pick it back up but the knife will do 25% less damage.

To make +Grip Strength actually useful, Jasons that have that strength should require at least 2 hits before dropping a counselor. 

Fix combat stance

When surrounded by counselors, blocking should reduce even more damage.

One of the Jasons should also have a plus defense strength. Where the HP is higher and weapons break faster if they hit Jason with it. 

A Jason should also have a plus fear strength. Not all of them of course. The plus fear will make fear increase faster for counselors and also take more time to recover stamina for them. (Got the idea from this video 

 

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Moved to the feedback section. Please make sure you're posting things in the right place.

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Jason isn’t that fast to begin with. For + run to match a 10 speed jog is too fast for Jason to run. And counselors like Deborah or AJ would have no hope with a Jason that fast. 

Everything else is interesting

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@Seraphic King Burning significantly less stalk when moving is a bit too over powered... a little less burn through speed would be alright, but there is a point of "too much" for that one. Stalk is the most powerful of abilities in the end... It will still allow you to grab players that can consistently avoid your shift grabs... Too much of a buff here throws balance to the wind.

    Jason can keep up with the slowest joggers now... he just cannot gain ground on them in a chase that moves in a straight line. No more speed for Jason is required and would throw balance to the wind... Slow counselors would have no chance of surviving the night and would barely last a minute in most cases after Jason sets his sights on them.

     Picking up spent knives with lesser damage is very interesting... Even a knife that does minimal damage still interrupting counselor animations is quite a buff if he can keep picking up missed throws though... I would be more in favor of throwing knives just being a bit more plentiful around the maps... but not too much more plentiful... You would not want to play against me if I had twice the rowing knives that I already pick up in a match.

     +Grip Strength requiring two hits to drop a counselor is also very interesting... As it is now, it just takes longer to break free from a Jason with this strength. +Grip Strength makes it easier to find room for longer kills, and makes it easier to use more environment kills... This suggestion is a bit overpowered though when considering players that use nothing but asphyxiate and head punch though... and there are a lot of players like that out there... Against those types of Jason players, this would give you zero chance to break someone free of his grip... So I think that one is just a bit too much as well.

     Fixing combat stance is a must... the lock on makes it very difficult to use it effectively against the counselor you want to hit as it usually locks on to a different counselor... and block is mostly useless as it is now.

    Blocking should definitely reduce more damage than it does, and you can still be stunned in block... Counselors can block far more damage than Jason can, and that is a bit backwards.

    Weapons breaking faster with +Defense... I like it... this makes sense to me... But should a weapon that hits him in block also break faster, even without this strength?... I think perhaps it should.

    A greater fear effect for some variants sounds good as well... I think that should be tied to the undead Jason variants... a walking corpse is generally more frightening that a living person any day... Fear growing faster from these variants would make sense... But fear already slows stamina regeneration to a crawl when you reach maximum fear... This, combined with how much a counselor stumbles at max fear makes Vanessa useless in my opinion... But I would not be against certain variants raising fear levels a bit quicker.

   A few good ideas there.  

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2 hours ago, Ahab said:

@Seraphic King 
     Picking up spent knives with lesser damage is very interesting... Even a knife that does minimal damage still interrupting counselor animations is quite a buff if he can keep picking up missed throws though... I would be more in favor of throwing knives just being a bit more plentiful around the maps... but not too much more plentiful... You would not want to play against me if I had twice the rowing knives that I already pick up in a match.

     

Then how about only the Jasons with +Throwing Knife as a strength can pick back up thrown knives.

With +Defense as a strength yes, blocking also counts. This will help with kill squads.

Also +Fear could also be good counter for the “No Fear Jenny” build.

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The stalk one is a bit too strong I think. I'd suggested in the past it could be 20/30/40 seconds (I think it was orginally more, but these numbers feel solid to me) for a moving Jason in stalk. This being based on minus, neutral, and plus stalk. 

A running Jason matching Vanessa in jog speed would be terrible. Low speed counselors would be in for a world of hurt.

The throwing knives would be interesting, but could become broken quickly. Maybe it should be chance based. Say a 25% chance that a missed knife could be recovered. Maybe with a small buff to the chance for plus throwing knife Jason's. 

Plus grip strength is useful. It's just not always useful. I've seen different suggestions on how to make it more useful. Automatically taking two hits to free someone would be too strong. A percentage based system where it might take two hits would be interesting. Anything that would stun Firecrackers, shotgun, and so forth would need to be excluded. 

Combat stance is definitely a bit clunky. Fixing quick block would alleviate alot of the struggles.

The amount of damage that slips through is pretty low as it is. A general damage/stun chance reduction based on the number of counselors within a certain proximity might be a better approach. That would allow for a little more room for error when fighting groups.

This is a really interesting idea. I'm not sure if they can add something like this as it might be new content. If they could I'd like to add it to my idea for Jason perks rather than a base strength.

This has been suggested before. It's still a good idea. It's another thing I'd make a Jason perk.

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1 hour ago, Seraphic King said:

Then how about only the Jasons with +Throwing Knife as a strength can pick back up thrown knives.

   Then I will just switch to a +throwing knives Jason... I won't even have to grab or slash anyone... and my matches will be over in record time. It would freak you out to see how far away I can hit someone with a throwing knife. This still brings it back to twice the throwing knives... but only for +Throwing Knives variants.
    It wouldn't be too bad if you could just reuse a throwing knife that stuck into a wall..., but this could require a new animation, depending on where he is grabbing the knife from to reuse... A knife hitting the ground would generally be pretty hard to find, particularly in the dark... and they were already stuck in the walls to begin with... so sticking in a wall shouldn't hurt the knife either.... this could still very easily throw balance to the wind... and only +Throwing Knives variants able to do this would be unfair to all other variants that would actually need this far more as they start with only 2 knives.
    @thrawn3054's idea of this based off a chance to pick up a knife sounds a bit more balanced to me.

   I am with you on the block thing... but it need not be tied to +Defense. Counselor's block needs the damage resistance lowered... drastically. Jason's block needs it raised... drastically... but we need a responsive block, or it is still all useless. It would still be good for +Defense to have more damage resistance in block... and do more damage to the weapon when hit... while in block or not... Other Jason variants should just do more damage to a weapon if hit with it while blocking... and -Defense would have to do less damage to the weapon when blocking to balance out the weakness. 
    I think the best we can hope for here is a return to a more responsive block.

  +Fear would make the no fear build more useful... Fear is a good counter already against Vanessa... not so much against Jenny, even at max fear her high composure keeps her from stumbling as much as Vanessa... To tell the truth, I don't see many people running Jenny at all... and far fewer still that use a no fear build with her. This strength would be useful against every counselor, just not as useful against Jenny.
    But this need not be tied to a strength or weakness either... The fear mechanic could use a bit of work... it should be "a bit" harsher on the counselors, but not much harsher or there goes balance again.

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I'm flattered you used my video. I find it very corny myself but I didn't want to provide a voice-over.

I have a few disagreements:

1. For +Grip Strength, how about instead of 2 hits to free a counselor, it does twice as much durability damage to the weapon. For normal Grip Strength, it would be 50% more. -Grip Strength would have the current values. If the percentages are too much then nerf them to some degree, like 75% and 33%.

2. Picking up throwing knives would take some work to make new animations so I think that one is not going to happen. They can't really make new animations by now. Maybe give throwing knives a headshot multiplier so that it does more damage when hitting a head. And an aim assist can't hurt.

3. Removing combat stance lock-on is the #1 way to fix combat, period. It is so clunky because of the lock on. It's not helping anybody, despite the intentions involved in including it.

4. +Defense I'm not sure about. A lot of people think +Defense should give more health but perhaps if it had the same health as normal but broke weapons faster, that might actually be the best way to include a balanced version of it.

5. +Fear I would definitely like but in a Q&A stream one of the developers said "We try to use strengths and weaknesses that already exist rather than make new ones." I'm sure this is simply because of the time, money, and manpower that would be required to make new pros & cons. It would be fantastic if it were put in though. I would guess that of all the abilities to include, it would be the simplest to implement because you'd just have to add a modifier to increase the fear effect calculation.

HOWEVER they might pull the "no new content" card and say they can't add new pros & cons because it would constitute as new content. If so then my argument is it is not new "Friday the 13th-derived" content but "game mechanics." But then again they might say "We'd have to change the pros & cons screens and those menus count as content" or whatever.

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@VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow

It was a nice video, however I do disagree with some of the weaknesses & strengths you gave some of the Jasons but overall it was nice.

@Ahab

Then how about for +Grip Strength, while Jason has them in their grip in does a bit of damage to the counselors the longer they are in his grasp. Just in case they have a pocket knife or someone knocks them free. I’m just playing around ideas right now. 

For the throwing knife one. Just like how counselors with the medic perk can get two uses from each spray. How about a Jason with the +Throwing Knife strength get 2 uses from each knife they pick up, and there will be less knives on the map but it would save time. You said that’s OP? Yeah maybe... 😂

 

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13 hours ago, Seraphic King said:

@VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow

It was a nice video, however I do disagree with some of the weaknesses & strengths you gave some of the Jasons but overall it was nice.

Thanks. I also have a thread about it if you didn't know. My intention was to force the player to make tough choices because of the trade-offs that the new pros and cons would give. Some people wanted a +Stalk to go with a +Shift because "it's more optimal" but I like that the Jason choices I made are not super optimal, because that encourages variety in the choices and gameplay. I didn't want every player to pick a specific Jason or always play a specific way because of "optimized" builds.

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18 hours ago, Seraphic King said:

Then how about for +Grip Strength, while Jason has them in their grip in does a bit of damage to the counselors the longer they are in his grasp. Just in case they have a pocket knife or someone knocks them free. I’m just playing around ideas right now. 

    Being the grip is Jason carrying someone around by the throat with their entire body weight pulling down... This IS choking them in the first place... and someone breaking free of a choke hold does not come out stronger and with more stamina... A choke hold of any kind deprives you of oxygen, which will VERY quickly weaken ANYBODY and leave them with ZERO stamina until they catch their breath... But that would be kind of game breaking for counselors... even a counselor who is not wounded that breaks free of his grip realistically would not be getting far... and counselors need the chance for the simple reason that this is a game.... More realism is great, but in certain parts of the game, realism has to be stretched just for game balance.

    But being the grip IS and actual choke hold... some damage would definitely be called for just from being in the grip... and a stronger grip would do more damage than a weaker grip... I am not against this, as long as the amount of damage taken does not throw balance to the wind... but it should also not damage the counselor to the point of death... That would just rob us of the kill animations and appear as if the player had quit before Jason had the chance to kill them.

18 hours ago, Seraphic King said:

For the throwing knife one. Just like how counselors with the medic perk can get two uses from each spray. How about a Jason with the +Throwing Knife strength get 2 uses from each knife they pick up, and there will be less knives on the map but it would save time. You said that’s OP? Yeah maybe... 😂

    Doubling knives for +Throwing knives is still too over powered, even if the number of knives were reduced.
    Reducing the number of knives leaves ALL other Jason variants with far less knives... and that is WAY too much of a nerf to EVERY other Jason variant.
    If anything, knives need to be a bit more plentiful across all maps... The time it takes to walk around to gather them alone is enough to keep this in balance, let alone the 3 second knife grabbing animation.... Ten knives... just the grabbing animation alone is thirty seconds... For twenty it is a full minute (1/20th of the match)… but add on the time it takes to wander around and find twenty knives to grab and you are probably around 8 minutes with a walking Jason (just a guess at the time from gathering ALL knives on one map in offline bots, but its not that far off)... A running Jason takes a bit less time to wander around and gather knives, but this does not give them that much extra time.
    Time is not on Jason's side.... and the more time spent gathering knives is more time for counselors to get things done. More knives on the map is probably the better way to go... it helps all Jason variants, while at the same time sucking up their valuable time while gathering them.

5 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

Thanks. I also have a thread about it if you didn't know. My intention was to force the player to make tough choices because of the trade-offs that the new pros and cons would give. Some people wanted a +Stalk to go with a +Shift because "it's more optimal" but I like that the Jason choices I made are not super optimal, because that encourages variety in the choices and gameplay. I didn't want every player to pick a specific Jason or always play a specific way because of "optimized" builds.

   +Shift and +Stalk.... I could see that becoming the most popular Jason variant immediately... Unless it was also given -Morph and -Traps.... and -Morph really does not hurt Jason much as a weakness... the player just need to be selective on when they use it... +Shift won't get you to the other side of the map too quickly, but you can cover the distance pretty damned quickly with it.
   Many players only play with what they feel is the absolute best character (and perks)… I am not one of these, or I would not main Part IV... and use medic and thick skin on all counselors... I don't use either of those perks on any counselor because I feel they are way too over powered. I generally stick to A.J. with a no fear build... it works good on her and is not too over powered... and I have the patience to use the stealth system properly... Zero sound pings unless sprinting, Jason actually has to see me in sense or have me in his line of sight to find me... I have had quit a few Jason players just not find me before time ran out or I approached the cops... When I survive the night like this, those players assume I was using the sense avoidance perks... and I do not use them... I am just wary of my sound pings. When you are alone on a map, one sound ping and Jason will find you without a problem... If they buffed the stealth system, I would survive the night in more than half my matches... Small maps though... Jason will not take long to find you morphing around and using sense... But large maps... most Jason players GREATLY overestimate the range of sense, and just never find me.

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