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Making the kill a real challenge is the next step to take in balancing the game. 

Jason has been getting a axe put in his head probably 10000000000000000 of times by many different kill squads with ease and it’s not a fair fight....... at all. When Jason can get de masked in one hit....? that’s just silly and way too OP/broken. What were they thinking with that???? Jason gets killed way too often in his own game. Is he the hunter? Or are kill squads the hunters and will always be the ones who have the upper hand? 

Make the Jason kill hard!!!!! 

At least 600% more mask hp, only killable final 5-10 min, fix combat stance block/swing delay, spawn shack in new locations, etc

this is a lot to make it hard. But it should be very HARD. And counselors should be forced to survive part of the night to accomplish the Jason kill. Kill squads would probably cry if the devs implemented these suggestions. Boo hoo, they’d have to finally work for something for once too bad 

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They go for the easiest way to change balance. Just look at the rage change.

The next most likely thing is rebalancing the way Jason loses his mask.

The normal way will probably be made a bit harder and the Jasons like Part 9 will probably be reworked to be what it is now for normal Jasons.

I don't expect wholesale change, even though more changes are needed.

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1 hour ago, DontZzz34 said:

Making the kill a real challenge is the next step to take in balancing the game. 

Jason has been getting a axe put in his head probably 10000000000000000 of times by many different kill squads with ease and it’s not a fair fight....... at all. When Jason can get de masked in one hit....? that’s just silly and way too OP/broken. What were they thinking with that???? Jason gets killed way too often in his own game. Is he the hunter? Or are kill squads the hunters and will always be the ones who have the upper hand? 

Make the Jason kill hard!!!!! 

At least 600% more mask hp, only killable final 5-10 min, fix combat stance block/swing delay, spawn shack in new locations, etc

this is a lot to make it hard. But it should be very HARD. And counselors should be forced to survive part of the night to accomplish the Jason kill. Kill squads would probably cry if the devs implemented these suggestions. Boo hoo, they’d have to finally work for something for once too bad 

If you implemented a time constraint, Jason's would just bull straight forward knowing they can't be killed. It would remove any need for tactical thinking. 

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3 hours ago, thrawn3054 said:

If you implemented a time constraint, Jason's would just bull straight forward knowing they can't be killed. It would remove any need for tactical thinking. 

Not necessarily, as his mask could still be removed before the timer. Putting him in a bad spot during the last 10 minutes of the game.

regardless it’s too easy for Counselors to kill Jason. Whether it’s a timer, or give Jason’s more HP something needs to be done.

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Block and attack is your friend.

Not just shifting in all willy nilly trying to grab. 

That Jason played like a noob.

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Jason did get demasked by a woman and killed by a kid.

The akward clunky combat and combat stance fit right into part 3 and part 4.

 

Wildy swinging and hitting nothing. Chasing, tripping, getting beat, weapon hits everything except for the intended target.

The auto aim lock is terrible too.

I have recorded clips of Jason locking on to counselors almost 2 cabins away while I'm trying to break down a cabin door in front of me.

Using combat stance for faster hits to a door.

 

Would love to see the combat smoothed out a little so it's less of a comedy slapstick chase and more of a horror game.

 

The windows and doors have invisible barriers that do not allow Jason to interact with the counselor while they are climbing or closing.

It looks stupid when you have to watch a counselor slowly climb through a window and Jason can't interact or use combat stance to break it until they passed through.

Jason just stands there while the counselor is already running for another window. 😄

 

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2 hours ago, dandop1984 said:

Not necessarily, as his mask could still be removed before the timer. Putting him in a bad spot during the last 10 minutes of the game.

regardless it’s too easy for Counselors to kill Jason. Whether it’s a timer, or give Jason’s more HP something needs to be done.

Something yes. The timer is a bad idea though.

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7 hours ago, tyrant666 said:

They go for the easiest way to change balance. Just look at the rage change.

The next most likely thing is rebalancing the way Jason loses his mask.

The normal way will probably be made a bit harder and the Jasons like Part 9 will probably be reworked to be what it is now for normal Jasons.

I don't expect wholesale change, even though more changes are needed.

Yeah they'll probably just give Jason an HP buff. I'd prefer tweaking Jason's combat mechanics instead. For instance, removing combat lock-on would allow Jason much more freedom in the way he can attack. No more getting stuck aiming at one guy when you really need to aim at another guy.

I'd also like a close range aim-assist for throwing knives. Just within about 15 feet, and the cursor will nudge closer to counselors. Like Halo 3 or Halo Reach's level of Aim Assist. That would be nice. Further than about 15 feet and no aim assist, I say.

Maybe either Weapon Strength or Grip Strength offers a very slight/modest damage buff for throwing knives too. Just a few points worth of damage, nothing that would change the game profoundly, just a fresh icing on the cake per se.

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9 hours ago, DontZzz34 said:

At least 600% more mask hp, only killable final 5-10 min, fix combat stance block/swing delay, spawn shack in new locations, etc

this is a lot to make it hard. But it should be very HARD. And counselors should be forced to survive part of the night to accomplish the Jason kill. Kill squads would probably cry if the devs implemented these suggestions. Boo hoo, they’d have to finally work for something for once too bad 

    That was always my point about an increase for damage required to remove the mask... 100% increase only requires two hits from Bugsy... that was never going to be enough. 600% brings it to six hits... better, but still easy as long as Jason can take many more hits than that just using the indefensible hit after ANY of his animations... the indefensible hit needs to go... With that, quick block would probably be enough right there... or at least there would be no need for such a drastic raise in the damage required for demasking.
    Either way, Jason should NEVER lose his mask to just a couple of hits from ANY counselor... no matter the method used to strike him. The Jason kill needs to be made harder, but in the same breath... it does not need to be made impossible... and any change will simply cause one change in the kill squads tactics, they will only go for low level Jasons… God forbid they have to work for something.

7 hours ago, thrawn3054 said:

If you implemented a time constraint, Jason's would just bull straight forward knowing they can't be killed. It would remove any need for tactical thinking. 

    Jason cannot "Bull" through counselors that have some skill... A great many players can kite around very skilled Jason players for VERY long periods of time. This would not remove tactical thinking from counselor play at all, it would merely force a change of tactics... and that promotes thinking... which is a good thing.
    But I don't think a time constraint is the way to go for making the kill harder... They just get the mask off and play keep away until the minimum time is up... not difficult for anyone with even marginal skill at kiting.

3 hours ago, GhostWolfViking said:

The windows and doors have invisible barriers that do not allow Jason to interact with the counselor while they are climbing or closing.

   The invincibility while climbing through window is kind of ridiculous... The counselors can use indefensible hits on Jason, but not the other way around... Counselors can absorb WAY MORE damage in block than Jason can... also kind of backwards... And ALL counselors can take more hits to kill them than ANY Jason variant can take before losing his mask... also kind of backwards... there are quite a few things that need to be changed to make the Jason kill harder.

    Jason was demasked by a woman... a man could have done it too under similar circumstances, but there is "the final girl trope" to be considered... There is always a final girl in these movies and rarely a "final boy."
    Killed by a child... oh yes, with a blindside swing of a machete that Jason would have needed to be on his knees for with the angle the machete was stuck in his head compared to young Tommy's height at the time... and it was a cheap shot that he did not see coming... anyone could have swung that machete and gotten the same results under these circumstances.

    Just because Jason "died" in every movie, does not translate to "Jason should die in every match" like some people would like to see it. This is not a movie, it is a game... movies require appropriate story structure for them to work, and a resolution... Bad guys rarely win in the movies for many reasons... This game does not require ANY story structure beyond the opening cut scene to explain what is going on... This is a "horror" survival game however, and if Jason was dying in every match, then the game loses ALL "horror value" and will NEVER be "scary"... Same kind of crap with the piñata parties... NO ONE is scared of ANYONE that can be turned into a piñata so easily... and that is why piñata parties needed to be curtailed.
     For this to be a "Horror" game at all, Jason NEEDS to be a challenge to kill... and currently, he is not a challenge to kill. While it can be a challenge to remove his mask with A.J. it certainly is not a challenge to remove it with Bugsy or Tommy.

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26 minutes ago, Ahab said:

.Jason cannot "Bull" through counselors that have some skill... A great many players can kite around very skilled Jason players for VERY long periods of time. This would not remove tactical thinking from counselor play at all, it would merely force a change of tactics... and that promotes thinking... which is a good thing.
    But I don't think a time constraint is the way to go for making the kill harder... They just get the mask off and play keep away until the minimum time is up... not difficult for anyone with even marginal skill at kiting.

What I mean is it would allow them to play more recklessly. They can charge in without fear of taking a hit. If they're hit they'll enter rage faster. Making people not very unwilling to hit him. This will be a big advantage for alot of Jason's. We've all pretty much been in agreement about Jason needing to be made more formidable. A timer on the kill being available is a bad idea though.

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Moved to the feedback section. Please check you're posting things in the right place.

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22 hours ago, thrawn3054 said:

If you implemented a time constraint, Jason's would just bull straight forward knowing they can't be killed. It would remove any need for tactical thinking. 

Nah. All it takes is a good team that sticks with each other and watches over one another. If they’re really smart and skilled they can last until 5 mins are left.... They can really give skilled Jason’s a tough time. Skilled counselors can survive the night against skilled Jason’s. It’s rare to happen, but it happens....... this isn’t making it impossible. But it’s making it almost as special/rare as surviving the night. The point in the time constraint is to force the kill squads to actually have to run away for once. Also in ur other post you saying, “A timer on the kill being available is a bad idea though.”

many disagree. 19-14😉 On my thread I made awhile ago asking if he should only be killable final 5 min. It’s a great idea

14 hours ago, Ahab said:

    That was always my point about an increase for damage required to remove the mask... 100% increase only requires two hits from Bugsy... that was never going to be enough. 600% brings it to six hits... better, but still easy as long as Jason can take many more hits than that just using the indefensible hit after ANY of his animations... the indefensible hit needs to go... With that, quick block would probably be enough right there... or at least there would be no need for such a drastic raise in the damage required for demasking.
    Either way, Jason should NEVER lose his mask to just a couple of hits from ANY counselor... no matter the method used to strike him. The Jason kill needs to be made harder, but in the same breath... it does not need to be made impossible... and any change will simply cause one change in the kill squads tactics, they will only go for low level Jasons… God forbid they have to work for something.

I forgot about including invincibility after animations. We need that one to desperately. 

It wouldn’t be impossible how I would change it. It would just be made really hard. For once, the kill would be uncommon and rare. Killing Jason would be an accomplishment for once. 

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7 hours ago, DontZzz34 said:

Nah. All it takes is a good team that sticks with each other and watches over one another. If they’re really smart and skilled they can last until 5 mins are left.... They can really give skilled Jason’s a tough time. Skilled counselors can survive the night against skilled Jason’s. It’s rare to happen, but it happens....... this isn’t making it impossible. But it’s making it almost as special/rare as surviving the night. The point in the time constraint is to force the kill squads to actually have to run away for once. Also in ur other post you saying, “A timer on the kill being available is a bad idea though.”

many disagree. 19-14😉 On my thread I made awhile ago asking if he should only be killable final 5 min. It’s a great idea

Popular opinion doesn't make something a good idea. Prohibition was a popular idea with disastrous results. 

I want to see changes that reward a Jason players skills. Not ones that put constraints on one side or another. 

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12 minutes ago, thrawn3054 said:

Popular opinion doesn't make something a good idea. Prohibition was a popular idea with disastrous results. 

I want to see changes that reward a Jason players skills. Not ones that put constraints on one side or another. 

And the kill will still be common enough with just more mask hp, fixing combat stance delay, etc... if there isn’t a timer on the kill. That’ll just encourage kill squads to run larger groups. At least 3 buggzys all with thrasher+slugger+friendship. The other 3 are girls. All of them ganging up on him with those perks will still be able to take Jason’s mask off with ease and not many hits. It’ll be a lot harder against a good Jason no doubt. But it takes away from Jason being the hunter.... and The devs should just delete damage perks against Jason’s mask tbh.... slugger, thrasher, friendship, and potent ranger need nerfed or erased

I don’t think you understand the point in the timer is so jason can be the hunter(like he’s supposed to be) and not the kill squads. 

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1 minute ago, DontZzz34 said:

And the kill will still be common enough with just more mask hp, fixing combat stance delay, etc... if there isn’t a timer on the kill. That’ll just encourage kill squads to run larger groups. At least 3 buggzys all with thrasher+slugger+friendship. All of them ganging up on him with those perks will still be able to take Jason’s mask off with ease and not many hits. It’ll be a lot harder against a good Jason no doubt. But it takes away from Jason being the hunter.... and The devs should just delete damage perks against Jason’s mask tbh.... 

I don’t think you understand the point in the timer is so jason can be the hunter(like he’s supposed to be) and not the kill squads. 

I understood the point of the timer. I think it's a bad idea, because if you give me 15 minutes of not needing to worry about my mask being on, I'll be able to mow through people. At that point I can play mindlessly aggressive. Returning quick block alone would be a huge buff. Add in invincibility frames, and a mask hp buff, and Jason will be in a great spot. At that point I'd just add power being out so the Tommy call requires at least some effort. 

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29 minutes ago, thrawn3054 said:

 I'll be able to mow through people. 

Just remember all it takes is some skilled counselors preferably runners like tiff or vanessa who can still run you around and make you struggle. 

Or also a car that can distract and waste your time. 

You wont always be able to just mow through people. 

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1 hour ago, DontZzz34 said:

Just remember all it takes is some skilled counselors preferably runners like tiff or vanessa who can still run you around and make you struggle. 

Or also a car that can distract and waste your time. 

You wont always be able to just mow through people. 

Of course not. Nobody will every time. 

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I know devs already said no but the easiest way to make the kill harder is for Jason to know where the Tommy house is on his map.He only has X amount of traps to put on the power box and unless he sits and camps it,they could still get him in the game.

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23 hours ago, thrawn3054 said:

What I mean is it would allow them to play more recklessly. They can charge in without fear of taking a hit. If they're hit they'll enter rage faster. Making people not very unwilling to hit him. This will be a big advantage for alot of Jason's. We've all pretty much been in agreement about Jason needing to be made more formidable. A timer on the kill being available is a bad idea though.

   With the mask coming off just as easily as it does now, I don't think that a timer would change too much in how Jason plays... But if a minimum time was put in before you could perform a Jason kill... fifteen minutes is a bit too long. The half way point (ten minutes) would be enough for that, and I doubt it would make the Jason kill any harder than it already is... it would simply make it impossible to happen early on... That being said, I don't think this is the way to go in making the Jason kill more difficult.
 

10 hours ago, DontZzz34 said:

I forgot about including invincibility after animations. We need that one to desperately. 

It wouldn’t be impossible how I would change it. It would just be made really hard. For once, the kill would be uncommon and rare. Killing Jason would be an accomplishment for once. 

   Never forget the indefensible demasking hit... That one is how most kill squads get his mask off so easily... Not all of them, but most of them. To get anywhere with making it harder to kill Jason, that one needs to be completely removed... Even if nothing else is done, this one would go further towards making it harder than ANY other suggestion.

   It wouldn't be impossible... and it would make it a touch more difficult by requiring them to at least survive a given length of time before they can even try it... But I do not think it would make it that much harder... It would at least require some survival skills to pull it off though, so I will give you that. But against a good kill squad, just grouping up and playing keep away from Jason is not hard once you have a few players with med sprays and weapons to knock their team mates free if grabbed, and we know they will all be running thick skin and medic to help them survive that long. The meta perks would become even more commonly used than they are now. I think this would just drag out the match for kill squads, and only make it more difficult for newer players that so far lack skills require to prolong a chase.
   Most attempts on my Jason already come late in the game... but this has not made it less common for my Jason to die. I am pretty good at keeping my mask on for the most part, and even if I do lose it early... everyone else is still going to die before I bother with the kill squad... And even if I went for the kill squad with immunity to death because a minimum time has not yet been reached, the kill squad I most often face also includes one of the best kiters I have seen play this game... and he will keep the noob alive right beside him until the timer is up with a minimum of difficulty... This really just makes the kill take longer to accomplish without addressing the problems that make it easy to pull off in the first place... like the indefensible demasking hit. 
    Making a task take longer DOES NOT make that same task more difficult... it merely makes it take longer.

   Killing Jason never gives me a sense of accomplishment... Even when I just started playing I found it too easy to do it. I do not try often, but have only had one failed attempt in recent memory that I was involved in... and that is probably because I was not playing with Jin at the time and just trying to work with him for the kill... I am not as good at working with a noob to kill Jason as he is.... Also, by an attempt... I mean that Tommy and sweater girl were together and properly armed for the kill, and the sweater stun was used... Kill squads are always going for the kill, but going for the kill does not make it a given that an attempt was made... They have to work towards the opportunity just to make an attempt... and kill squads can still be killed before they get a chance to make an attempt... But once that mask is off, the attempt is coming soon. They just need to be made to actually work to get that mask off... that will make it more difficult.
   In many matches I have witnessed, the kill squad was not even responsible for removing Jason's mask... Some lone random that thought it would be funny to fight Jason often can do most of the work here. Light attack, get grabbed... use pocket knife and the indefensible hit... If this is Bugsy, from this point on, the mask is ready to fall off at this point alone, let alone if he gets in one more light hit before dying... and if that second light hit results in a stun, one more indefensible hit and the mask is off with Bugsy, even without using thrasher and slugger. Easy peezy. Bugsy may not get many hits with a weapon, but I have seen many players like this just waiting for Jason in the middle of the road with an axe in hand, and another two machetes and a second axe on the ground within five feet of him. I just use throwing knives on players like that... the weapons on the ground are abandoned pretty quickly that way.

    There is one issue glaring us all in the face with making the kill attempt harder though... and not many have thought of it.... When it is made more difficult to do, many of the kill squads will ignore high level Jasons and go after low level Jasons exclusively... This could lead to kill squads just leaving the game when they see a high level Jason being selected. If they are in a group larger than two and they leave, this REALLY hurts the players left behind... and puts them into hard mode just to escape due to less targets being available for Jason to go after.
 

Just now, TimDuke 01 said:

I know devs already said no but the easiest way to make the kill harder is for Jason to know where the Tommy house is on his map.He only has X amount of traps to put on the power box and unless he sits and camps it,they could still get him in the game.

    Tommy was never the problem though. He is just the keymaster to sweater girl's gatekeeper. You need both to pull off the kill, but not all Tommy players will even try to help with a kill... and that alone is enough to screw up any Jason hunters in the game with zero effort from Jason.
    The strategy to prevent the call with the power box is hit and miss at best... and for -Traps Jasons, this just leads to full lobbies escaping together with Jason having no real chance for any objective control. Some players can use this strategy to good effect... But it requires them killing the power before Tommy is called, which is hard to do against any players that pay attention, that tower is easy to spot if you are close to it... and the call can be made within the first thirty seconds, and Jason will never know it was done. Let alone guessing the correct power box on the first morph... hit and miss at best.
      That, and if the Jason is concerned at all with escapes... a team using communications just has to get someone in the C.B. house, and someone to come close to the power box and wait for the car or boat that is ready to go to start, they see the VHS effect as Jason morphs after the vehicle and sprint for the box... and receive a communication that Jason is now after the car. Unless it is Part II, the call will be made before the Jason player can return to defend the box from the attempt... at the cost of letting a car full of people escape... It takes time to kill four passengers in a car that want to fight Jason over it... and if he morphs away, that is a free pass for them to escape.
     Great strategy against a group that cannot co ordinate well, but against a group that can... its a waste of time and traps... let alone guessing the wrong power box which can happen very often... or not smashing the correct power box before the call is already made, which he has no way of knowing whether or not it was.

     The best way to make the kill harder is to take the easiest part of it away... Make the mask hard to remove... Problem solved.

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@Ahab making him killable final 5 mins would Make it a lot harder than just a touch harder, it’d make it a lot harder. We all know surviving is the hardest thing to do in the game. Especially with a good Jason. Surviving should be a requirement to kill him. They had to survive most of the movie to defeat him at the end. When did they ever defeat him in the beginning of the movie? Never, except JGTH but that movie sucked anyway. Should be the same for the game. It’s about about time these mf kill squads learn to run away from Jason. Killing Jason the first 5 mins of the game is ridiculous. This same thing would continue to happen even with more mask hp, fixing combat stance, invincibility frames, etc.... but this would most likely only happen to noob Jason’s. A good Jason who knows how to fight would be a lot harder to de mask and defeat.

This is another problem.... kill squads killing level 5 Jason’s and noob Jason’s getting killed right away at game start. And they won’t want to play the game again. With making Jason only killable final 5 minutes this gives the noob Jason’s a chance to learn how to play as jason and it gives them a chance to try and get some kills. They could even get SG or Tommy in that time to. 

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5 minutes ago, DontZzz34 said:

@Ahab making him killable final 5 mins would Make it a lot harder than just a touch harder, it’d make it a lot harder. We all know surviving is the hardest thing to do in the game. Especially with a good Jason. Surviving should be a requirement to kill him. They had to survive most of the movie to defeat him at the end. When did they ever defeat him in the beginning of the movie? Never, except JGTH but that movie sucked anyway. Should be the same for the game. It’s about about time these mf kill squads learn to run away from Jason. Killing Jason the first 5 mins of the game is ridiculous. This same thing would continue to happen even with more mask hp, fixing combat stance, invincibility frames, etc.... but this would most likely only happen to noob Jason’s. A good Jason who knows how to fight would be a lot harder to de mask and defeat.

This is another problem.... kill squads killing level 5 Jason’s and noob Jason’s getting killed right away at game start. And they won’t want to play the game again. With making Jason only killable final 5 minutes this gives the noob Jason’s a chance to learn how to play as jason and it gives them a chance to try and get some kills. They could even get SG or Tommy in that time to. 

     It would make it harder for newer players to pull of the J kill, I am not disagreeing with you there at all... It just does not address the issue of what makes it easy to do... removing the mask. For many players, this would not make it more difficult at all... they just have to wait longer.
    Surviving is the hardest thing to do in the game... but I see many matches that several players survive until the last five minutes. That does not mean they will survive the night or escape though... Some Jason player do like to toy with their victims as long as possible.
     Jason was blown up at the beginning of Part IX, but not killed as it did not take him long to come back in another form... That movie did suck... but at least it made an attempt to explain why he just keeps coming back... using the Necronomicon... which was also used in the evil dead series... but Evil Dead took the ideas presented by H.P. Lovecraft for those movies, they did not invent the concept... But it was still a good explanation if you look at Lovecraft's stories and ignore the Evil Dead references... and Lovecraft's stories are in the public domain, anyone can use them... and add to them... and many authors have done this already.
     But using the fact that in the movies he was never "stopped" until near the end as what should be in the game, also justifies players that say he died in every movie, so he should die in EVERY match... which is a ridiculous concept and takes the horror right out of the game if he does die in every match.
     Killing Jason in the first five minutes is ridiculous, I completely agree... but if the mask was more difficult to remove, then this would not be happening anyway. Good Jason players can still lose their mask VERY early into a match through no fault of their own... Indefensible demasking strike anyone?... That is the root cause of 99% of this happening early on... No pocket knife required, just another person to stun him with a bat while the second uses an axe or machete on the indefensible hit... this makes for VERY rapid demasking of any Jason player that this happens to.... through no fault of their own... You cannot defend against it.
     I am not saying this is a horrible idea... but if it is implemented... half way through the match is far more reasonable than the final five minutes. Many half decent Jason players can consistently finish a match in ten minutes or under... there still needs to be a "chance" to kill these players as well, or the focus of the kill squads will shift completely to lower level Jason players.

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More mask HP really wouldn't help a bunch unless it was a very significant increase. It just prolongs the inevitable unless you make it  to where he  can't be unmasked until he gets rage, just my opinion. Guessing the power box is not so hit and miss as you may think. I'm  pretty accurate on the first morph but I spent hours upon hours against the bots to get the patterns down to somewhat of a science. I still get it wrong but far less than I use to.

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