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GeneiJin

State of the META: 20190703 Edition

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Howdy Y’all!! It has been a while since I been to these parts. I started playing again for the last few day. Last time I've been on was back in December, so obviously things have changed a bit. While some remains the same (lol F13 The Bug the Game), the major change has been Jason's Rage Buff. I want to start a open conversation about how this effects the game, especially to those names I recognize here. To the vets here, I’m sure you already aware of what I will be highlighting and came to a similar conclusions, but I like to be descriptive.   So without further ado, I'll give you my quick take-away.

 

The Ramification of Rage Buff

Vanessa-During pretty much the entirety of F13, Vanessa has been blessed. And since then... she is still the best counselor. In fact, as the Rage Buff was a indirect Nerf to all counselors, it actually separates Vanessa even further with most of the cast. Since continually landing stuns on Jason is no longer a winning strategy, it makes her incredible ability to kite and juke Jason even more valuable. Her combo of Speed and Stamina makes her the best gofer for props, sweater, dealing with Jason. Anyone in the know understands that stealth in general is a underwhelming stat, leaving her repair as her only glaring weakness (even that is manageable, early on).

 

Chad- This one make me sad :(. One of the Heroes of F13, the rage buff impacted his defining role, Stunning Jason. What is left is mediocre stamina and bad repair. Still runs really fast in a Speedo, though. Sure he can be helpful protecting repairs and distracting early on, but with his massive luck is neutralized limiting it simply slapping Jason when he grabs someone late game.

 

Jenny- Man, This one make me VERY sad. Anyone that knows me here knows I’m be big proponent (fanboy) of Jenny. While her partner (and possibly Hubby) Chad is the Speedy one (in a Speedo), Jenny is the consistent one, with Immunity to Fear allowed by a specific perk build. Thanks to Jason’s new rage, her talents with combat/bullying is limited to the first half of the game, much like Chad. IDK, maybe it’s still just a knee-jerk-reaction. She should still have great Stamina management with “NoFear” build, but damn that speed tax. I’m thinking about playing “FINAL JENNY” sometime soon so I might reassess her.

 

Repair Counselor- The name of the game is Blitzkrieg. If something need to get fix or installed, then it better get done before Jason gets Rage as surviving the night isn’t likely against a fierce Jason player. Repair counselors always had a key role to play and an un-stunnable Jason will be happy to know that the only counselors left are a bunch of Vanessas. In 3-4 seconds, Deb or LaChappa can get that “whatever” done if you’re in a the unfortunate situation needing a clutch fix with an enraged Jason.

 

The Luck stat- Luck as always been agreed upon as a top 3 stat (some argue it is #1, myself included). However, much like the counselors who benefited the most from this stat, its largely limited now to the first half of the game. Don’t get me wrong, it’s still a beneficial stat because there is always a benefit keeping weapons in hand, however you’re not going to be able to depend on a stun whenever you need to hit Jason to recover stamina, post-rage.

 

Perks-

           Swift Attacker & Sucker Punch- This combo is the bane of any Piñata Jasons. Once the go-to perks of any meta/bully/try-hard/troll counselor, again, these are limited to before Jason enters Rage. I’m still rocking Swift Attacker currently though, mainly because I still go for solo de-masking early, and I’m too lazy to relearn the swing timings without it :P.

           Thicked Skined- Previously, I considered Medic to be the single best Perk, but now I’m tempted to give it THICC-SKAN. If you are ever wounded in front of a Slashing Rage Jason, nothing but divine intervention (Shotgun, sweater, a bear trap falling from the sky right on top of Jason) will save you. An entire baseball team of Chads w/ sprays can’t do shit to save you once wounded (Well, I guess you can go into Combat Stance and block, hopefully someone is in range to heal you while still keeping him/herself safely outside Jason's striking range). An extra hit you can tank allowing for you to safe ground to recover is invaluable. Otherwise, you better hope Jason take MERCY on you by grabbing you, testing if you have a PK & Spray.

           Marathon & Restful- Since you can no longer simply fight your way off the map (timeout), strong kiting skills are necessarily if you’re going to outlast Jason. You always hear from Salty Jason about a Vanessa dancing away out of grab range, and its unlikely to change. Definitely top perks.

 

Jason Killing- Before I left the game, there were 2 issues players complained about most, Piñata Jason and Jason Killing. Well… the rage buff addressed one of those. Because since every hit no longer stuns Jason, post-rage, every hit now guarantees damage toward de-masking. Arguably this makes Jason killing easier, but honestly I don’t think it really impacts that all too much. But I can’t help but to point out that this concern wasn’t addressed at all.

 

My Thoughts on the Rage Buff- Well, initially when I heard about this change (while I wasn’t playing) I didn’t care for it. Now that I came back and actually played with this change…. I still don’t like it…………. But…… assuming if the game would see no further changes and I was to choose between the balance prior to that patch to currently, I would choose latter. Jason needed some kinda of buff, but damn, isn’t this just such a lazy “band-aid” approach of addressing it. I’ve made suggestion in the past regarding how gameplay balance can be achieved while maintaining combat as a reliable tactics for the entire game, fair on both ends, but the devs decided to go the “brain-dead” route, which, to be fair, is easier to implement, and I guess makes some people here happy, so I’m glad for them.  I'm just against it on the principal that the Jason player can simply relay on the system rather than outplaying/outsmarting the counselors, but then again I am a battle nut.  There is the caveat that Jason is potentially easier to kill, so I guess counselors do get something in return. Personally, I’d rather they reverted the state of the game before that faithful “Engine Update” back in May’18, but things are better than how it was in-beween that time and currently, so I guess I’m ..um.. supportive of this change???

 

TLDR: Post-Rage Jason is now invincible, so Slash away Jasons!!!

 

Guys, looking forward your comments. Just as a reminder, these are my own opinions and opinions are always contentious, so please be respectful towards myself and any other who would like to share.

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I’m in the middle with the rage buff and how I feel about it. I’d like to see some changes made to it. And some minor changes to the rage buff could potentially make the overall playerbase happy. 

I actually just made a thread on what I think they could change with the rage buff to make everyone happy. If u want to check it out

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1 minute ago, DontZzz34 said:

I actually just made a thread on what I think they could change with the rage buff to make everyone happy. If u want to check it out

Cool, I'll search for it later when I get home.  😀

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Was never a huge fan of the rage buff, but can honestly say it did help me greatly improve on my juking skills.  (Pipe dreaming but....) They should add some more HP to Jason or make it a little more difficult in removing the mask.  Possibly having Jason being able to put the mask back on, if he kills whoever has it in their possession and picks it back up? Maybe a slight  less cool down on Jason's block and throwing knives (Fix issue where the knife gets stuck in his hand.....lol).  Can still use knives but makes smacking Jason out of shift so much easier, since he is invisible but the throwing knife isn't.  

This is coming from a counselor main BTW, I don't really play as Jason all that much.  Instead of complete invincibility, would have been better to have it where the chances of stunning him drastically decrease, but still possible with regular weapons or have them break after 1 hit? I don't know honestly  0_o  lol 

Nice Yun pic OP... Street Fighter 3 is my favourite  :)  Also saw your point about Jenny.  She is my go to character now and run the No Fear build since the rage buff.  Although she is slower and stamina is average, it will always regenerate normally..... fear greatly affects stamina regeneration.  She does not stumble at all, the screen never goes dark and with the perks, mini map is always there.  One thing that I rarely see mentioned is that the No Fear Build......... transfers over to Tommy Jarvis

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7 hours ago, GeneiJin said:

Guys, looking forward your comments. Just as a reminder, these are my own opinions and opinions are always contentious, so please be respectful towards myself and any other who would like to share.

I think you’re assessment is pretty good, and I’m glad to see you back in camp. 

I don’t think the rage buff was ‘lazy’, in fact I think it was some damn brilliant thinking on whoever’s part, just executed a bit poorly. Now that a few months have past, it’s painful to watch clips from the piñata era. 

You also didn’t spend your time ranting about getting good, so I don’t think you’ll get a lot of negative feedback for your opinions. 

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I'm just afraid of them knee jerk reaction the buff and it'll be back to the 20 minute dance and tea bag party just because of all the whining. Remember when they did that to the grab and we got T-Rex armed small cone grab Jason and 7-9 pocket knifes for a while? All because people whining about the "Jedi"  grab. The trend is they tend to over compensate every time people start crying. If they could bring back the original combat stance mechanics where you could instant block and instant swing out of block or was it swing while blocking can't remember now it's been too long and I'm old.LOL I don't want piñata Jason back.

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State of the meta?

Pretty much the same as it was before...with slight change.

High level Jason + Low level counselor = Jason wins

Meh/Eh Jason + Low level counselor = All dependent on the type of lobby mixed together..usually once rage hits, it should provide the meh/eh Jason a boost though while completely cripping low level counselors/low speed/stamina counselors who now can't fight back.

High level Jason + High level counselor = Counselor wins

Low level Jason + High level counselor = Counselor wins

I think back to this memorable, truth telling thread from November 2017 discussing the opinion of Randy streaming the game (back when he was) saying in infamy...

"Jason hasn't been nerfed, the counselors have just gotten better"

Lotta members gone from that thread.

http://forum.f13game.com/topic/13419-jason-hasnt-been-nerfed-the-counselors-have-just-gotten-better-do-you-believe-this/

 

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48 minutes ago, tyrant666 said:

State of the meta?

Pretty much the same as it was before...with slight change.

High level Jason + Low level counselor = Jason wins

Meh/Eh Jason + Low level counselor = All dependent on the type of lobby mixed together..usually once rage hits, it should provide the meh/eh Jason a boost though while completely cripping low level counselors/low speed/stamina counselors who now can't fight back.

High level Jason + High level counselor = Counselor wins

Low level Jason + High level counselor = Counselor wins

I mostly agree, but I will argue that it's about a 50% split, ether way both sides at high level.   It really depends on Jason ability to shut down any Jason Killed attempt.  50/50 he get this done if he makes it his priority (More so if the Lobby doesn't make it their >:D).  No Tommy, Jason secures the map, kill what he can but stalls all objectives until he gets Rage, mow down the remaining counselors.  Tommy gets call, a kill attempt may come at any moment.  Of course whether the Jason kill happens or not, cars and cop call can still happen, no game is the same.  Generally, I'm happy about the patch (main because they finally fixed that Combat Stance Lock out bug!!).  The balances is closer to center than the previous state. 

1 hour ago, hab007GE said:

This is coming from a counselor main BTW, I don't really play as Jason all that much.  Instead of complete invincibility, would have been better to have it where the chances of stunning him drastically decrease, but still possible with regular weapons or have them break after 1 hit? I don't know honestly  0_o  lol 

Nice Yun pic OP... Street Fighter 3 is my favourite  :)  Also saw your point about Jenny.  She is my go to character now and run the No Fear build since the rage buff.  Although she is slower and stamina is average, it will always regenerate normally..... fear greatly affects stamina regeneration.  She does not stumble at all, the screen never goes dark and with the perks, mini map is always there.  One thing that I rarely see mentioned is that the No Fear Build......... transfers over to Tommy Jarvis

Thanks man, 3rd Strike is my Favorite!   No Fear Jenny is BAE.  It nice not dealing with the annoyance (mainly stumbling and screaming at Jason), but she doesn't suit me any longer.  I can deal with her slow (but nice) ass, but her strength stat is a concern to my playstyle.

1 hour ago, Slasher_Clone said:

I think you’re assessment is pretty good, and I’m glad to see you back in camp. 

I don’t think the rage buff was ‘lazy’, in fact I think it was some damn brilliant thinking on whoever’s part, just executed a bit poorly. Now that a few months have past, it’s painful to watch clips from the piñata era. 

You also didn’t spend your time ranting about getting good, so I don’t think you’ll get a lot of negative feedback for your opinions. 

Thanks, good to see you're here.

Yes, poorly executed is how I would describe much of this game, lol.   I really don't care about the "invincible" rage buff, but I do think they took it maybe a little too far.  Really? No stun on fireworks and flairguns as well, lol.  Just leave those alone, they're not going to matter much anyhow.  :P

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2 minutes ago, GeneiJin said:

Thanks, good to see you're here.

 Yes, poorly executed is how I would describe much of this game, lol.   I really don't care about the "invincible" rage buff, but I do think they took it maybe a little too far.  Really? No stun on fireworks and flairguns as well, lol.  Just leave those alone, they're not going to matter much anyhow.  :P

Yeah, most of us think at least one of them should still stun, or that there perks should allow them too. It may still happen either during the perk re-work or a balance change.

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@GeneiJin I pretty much 100% agree. I dislike when options are limited. That's what the rage buff did. I did like the addition of the damage arc, and the flashing mask with Pamela laughing was a great touch. But making him unstunable was a bad addition in my opinion. As you pointed out then the system is saving them, not their skill. I also felt it was a band aid fix. They addressed the symptoms not the illness. 

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5 minutes ago, thrawn3054 said:

@GeneiJin I pretty much 100% agree. I dislike when options are limited. That's what the rage buff did. I did like the addition of the damage arc, and the flashing mask with Pamela laughing was a great touch. But making him unstunable was a bad addition in my opinion. As you pointed out then the system is saving them, not their skill. I also felt it was a band aid fix. They addressed the symptoms not the illness. 

Yea, I'd prefer as well to a buff to any of the general play to Jason, rather than just straight up make him  non-stunnable.  But its a easy fix that is likely to satisfy more Jasons that not, regardless of their skill level.  It's too bad for me that it's now too easy, as I've been accustom to fighting off high-level Kill squads before I last played before the Rage Buff.  Sad to say, many of the tactics and tech I ether picked up or developed myself is made unnecessarily by Rage Jason

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Not a fan.  Final Jenny is one of my favorite styles to play and it’s very useful in a lobby full of randoms who are not. The end game now punishes good/experienced players who have to rely on “survived the night” after all the other counselors are dead and no objectives are done.

Keep multi slash, make it take a smidge longer to rage, give Jason a lot more HP and a little harder to stun. 4x4’s should be the shotguns of melee weapons- guaranteed stun but breaks after one hit. Branches should be 50/50 for a stun and break on 2nd hit. 

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Problem is the meta isn't all that interesting and because so many other areas of the game fell flat. The whole fight/stun him while picking the fastest counselors with the fastest stamina should've been something they saw and corrected BACK IN BETA, especially the final days of beta when many lobbies were already spamming Vanessa with zero consequence, even BEFORE the meta perks became a thing post launch.

For instance, the mechanic they really put out there during development was hiding...and it ended up being one of the most useless mechanics in the game for high stealth/high composure characters. They never took into account Jason's sense toggle, also said they would never change it in one of the beyond streams recently. They also said they would never change Sense with Stalk because apparently Stalk is so powerful that its more powerful than Sense, according to them and such a change would allow Jason to roll early game apparently, even despite making more sense film lore wise. Yet such a simple switch would give more longevity to that hiding mechanic, plus other ways to do it.

Then you have low composure meaning almost nothing for high speed/stamina characters. The tripping mechanic makes no difference minus Jason getting in a lucky knife and the jogging will allow them to out pace running Jasons mostly and walking Jasons easily. There was never a falling mechanic added and there was never any sort of real buff to be seen with high composure in small areas or close encounters besides stunning him for stamina...which you still get stamina for the hit even if he has rage, but you won't escape.

Really...it does equate to a fighting game that has like 30-60 fighters, but people just go with the 4-6 meta fighters because its the easiest way to win and most sure way to win. The variation falls apart because of the game design being exploited and the devs basically sitting on their hands, not wanting to rock the boat.

Part 3/Roy/6/8/Savini arguably on Jason side...though I usually roll 7/9

Vanessa/Chad/Tiff/Bugs arguably on counselor side...though I go with random because of the horrible random counselor bug that irks me...plus I don't mind any of them...even Shelly...though they really made him kinda eh. He should've been the reverse Eric.

 

 

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Not being able to stun Jason is the stupidest addition ever made. Just because some trash Jason players cried how bad he is, doesn't mean he was bad. A good Jason could easily destroy Counselors. Yes, ganging up on Jason and chain-stunning him was stupid, but this was a dumb band-aid fix. It made the game unplayable for me, as an AJ main. I can easily juke Jason as her, because most Jasons are terrible, but after he hits Rage, I'm done. Bad players shouldn't be rewarded with this. Remove this goddamn thing.

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You might think RAGE is stupid but they broke KNIFE throwing and Combat Stance activation/use is a clunky as an Atari controller.

Fix Knife throwing! I used to love being able to hit counselors with them, and slash the speedy chads n vanessa's.

But we got Victoria's butt so all is forgiven.

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Rage buff didn't change all that much. Turn and burn with a dodge cancel and you can still run him around with anybody. Best to only engage when you're low on stam. Spray cancel doesn't hurt. 😉  Mask is way easier to get off post rage. Not that it's all that difficult pre rage...

Meta perks: medic,  thick skin, either nerves of steel or marathon.

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5 hours ago, Somethin Cool said:

Rage buff didn't change all that much. Turn and burn with a dodge cancel and you can still run him around with anybody. Best to only engage when you're low on stam. Spray cancel doesn't hurt. 😉  Mask is way easier to get off post rage. Not that it's all that difficult pre rage...

Meta perks: medic,  thick skin, either nerves of steel or marathon.

Dodge cancelling works so well with swift attacker to. Been really helping me with my survive the nights 

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Good to see your post GeneiJin, and I agree with what you said. Pretty much the rage buff made baby Jasons tougher at the endgame. Not invincible, far from it! As you mentioned all hits cause full damage, so it just changed my strategy to kill him post Rage if there are no escape options. Dodge cancelling strikes is the only way to gain stamina back in a chase now, once again a benifit to baby Jasons. I'm suprised how many 150 counselors don't use this, so post rage they get slaughtered. A great J player will shut that down, anticipating your move. And even in a crowd they spam grab for a quick choke when weapons break, or a swing is missed. Great Jasons are now that much better in the endgame, and if they can keep up with objective hounds early on and shut down the Tommy call it's game over most matches. But, hey! That's what makes it thrilling, at least to me.

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Ill add to this that Vanessa is the best to have if Jason has rage and your intent is just to kite, as she really doesn't have a chance to get shit done. A repair conselor is still useful when Jason gets rage though on the contrary. Kite Jason away from objective, wait for them to use shift, then sprint back and repair. rinse repeat. Or better yet he is off chasing someone else and you waltz right in and repair under his nose.

another drawback for Vanessa late match is her composure. Her fear level is bound to be high by the time rage comes, and with the added pressure she is a stumbling machine by that point. As Jason, knock out power keep on pressure and Vanessa will wilt.

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2 minutes ago, badassgixxer05 said:

Ill add to this that Vanessa is the best to have if Jason has rage and your intent is just to kite, as she really doesn't have a chance to get shit done. A repair conselor is still useful when Jason gets rage though on the contrary. Kite Jason away from objective, wait for them to use shift, then sprint back and repair. rinse repeat. Or better yet he is off chasing someone else and you waltz right in and repair under his nose.

another drawback for Vanessa late match is her composure. Her fear level is bound to be high by the time rage comes, and with the added pressure she is a stumbling machine by that point. As Jason, knock out power keep on pressure and Vanessa will wilt.

I fix objectives with Vanessa all the time. Also nerves of steel is the solution to low composure. 

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Just now, Somethin Cool said:

I fix objectives with Vanessa all the time. Also nerves of steel is the solution to low composure. 

Im talking during rage chases. there is no chance with a speedy counselor. I have done it a shit ton of times as repair counselor.

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1 minute ago, badassgixxer05 said:

Im talking during rage chases. there is no chance with a speedy counselor. I have done it a shit ton of times as repair counselor.

Well yeah if you're the last one left but if Jason is preoccupied by chasing someone else then by all means fix something

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I loved the Rage Buff at first and now I hate it. What it does is just allow mediocre Jason players the opportunity to sweep lobbies they otherwise could never. Just wait til Rage and slash everyone to death. This happens so much with bad lobbies of baby players who don’t tag parts and/or hold onto parts. It makes the legendary players have to do all the heavy lifting and more likely to die for running objectives. The Rage buff was intended to make the game more balanced and keep counselors from making Jason a piñata. What it ended up doing is letting counselors still piñata Jason but rage him early and make all the other counselors suffer. It’s dumb.

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10 minutes ago, BeautyNumber2 said:

I loved the Rage Buff at first and now I hate it. What it does is just allow mediocre Jason players the opportunity to sweep lobbies they otherwise could never. Just wait til Rage and slash everyone to death. This happens so much with bad lobbies of baby players who don’t tag parts and/or hold onto parts. It makes the legendary players have to do all the heavy lifting and more likely to die for running objectives. The Rage buff was intended to make the game more balanced and keep counselors from making Jason a piñata. What it ended up doing is letting counselors still piñata Jason but rage him early and make all the other counselors suffer. It’s dumb.

Jason cant slash you if you don't let him get close enough to do so. I hear ya on the do everything yourself lately though. This uptick of new players just wants just hide out in cabins and do nothing or bum rush stun Jason like back in the old days. They will learn, which is what the update was intended to do. Huge consequences for beating on Jason. I like it still though. It's playing on hard mode. Makes it tough to escape that way.

I have no problem dying to a skilled or unskilled Jason. They were better then me that match and i deserved to die then if they caught me. I think that's why most hate the patch. They only want to be killed by the best Jason's and troll the bad ones like look at me I'm really good! Can still do the same with this patch though if you get good at kiting. Not my style though really. I'll take all the chances and try to escape even if it means dying to a Raged lvl 1 Jason.. hehe

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