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Blue Firebird

Do tents count as "hiding spots?" Do they count as "indoors?"

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Can Jason sense you (pre-Rage) in a tent? Or does it count as a hiding spot? For the purposes of Homebody, does it count as being "indoors?" I'm guessing not, because of the existence of "Heavy Sleeper," but I figured it was worth trying to find an official answer.

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@Blue Firebird 

If your fear is up or he witnesses you enter a tent it will light up like a cabin for him... pre rage and post rage.

and it doesn’t count as indoors...if you equip Heavy sleeper your chance of not being sensed is higher, but if Jason spams the sense ability he will eventually see you.

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14 hours ago, OCT 31 1978 said:

If your fear is up or he witnesses you enter a tent it will light up like a cabin for him... pre rage and post rage.

   I have never seen a tent light up in sense pre-rage... not even after watching them climb in. Also... Fear level has nothing to do with lighting up someone in sense... otherwise, counselors at zero fear would not show up on sense at all, which would make the no fear build with proper fear management better than sense avoidance for this... Even spamming sense would not show them to you until their fear rises if counselors only showed up on sense if fear was high enough.

@Blue Firebird Sense avoidance perks are not meant to allow you to survive the night hiding with zero effort put into the game... They are meant to give you a chance at avoiding sense so you can get objectives done quickly and get the hell out of camp... Without sense spamming... counselors using the sense avoidance perks would be sitting in a hiding spot for the entire match and rarely being found. The counselors get a chance to avoid sense... spamming sense gives Jason a chance to find them... Which is fair to both sides. Without sense spamming, his odds of finding players that know how to use this would be zero. When you have legendary sense avoidance perks all around... your chance to avoid sense is pretty damned high.

    Also, watch your sound pings... they are a dead giveaway that you are nearby. If a Jason player sees these sound pings and does not see you on sense when they are obviously coming from someone within sense range, you just made yourself a priority target, and your sound pings will lead him right to you. Sense avoidance perks are best used on A.J. if you have the patience to not give off any sound pings... This means, no running... Even A.J. gives off sound pings when running... and keeping as much distance between yourself and Jason helps lower the chances his sense spamming will see you... If you can hear his music pre-rage, you are in range of sense.
    These perks are utterly useless if you want to fight Jason... Your best chance with these perks is to keep your distance and give off zero sound pings. If he sees you and you are not lit up with sense... you just made yourself a priority target... sound pings or no sound pings. Once Jason in after you, avoiding sense becomes far less useful... as it should be... Jason does not need to use sense to see you if you are in his line of sight... he is not blind, unless of course... the Jason player is blind.

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7 hours ago, Ahab said:

   I have never seen a tent light up in sense pre-rage... not even after watching them climb in.

I have seen it a lot mostly against off-line bots..... Tents light up before rage and after.

Quote

Also... Fear level has nothing to do with lighting up someone in sense... otherwise, counselors at zero fear would not show up on sense at all, which would make the no fear build with proper fear management better than sense avoidance for this... Even spamming sense would not show them to you until their fear rises if counselors only showed up on sense if fear was high enough.
 

I have always been under the impression that :

1. Jason has a base sense range. The range at which he will detect everyone equally if they are at the same fear level. The base level increases when he gets rage.

2. Composure affects the rate at which you gain and lose fear. Fear level in turn effects the base range at which Jason can sense you. More fear - the greater range to be detected.

3. Perks can directly affect the accumulation of fear or grant chances to avoid sense completely independent of your fear level.

this information is based on countless hours of play testing by one of our oldest members on the forums.

 

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54 minutes ago, OCT 31 1978 said:

I have seen it a lot mostly against off-line bots..... Tents light up before rage and after.

   I have not seen this in offline bots either... But I have not played offline bots for a while.

   Jason's base sense range.... it is about the radius from him in which you can hear his music... I know this through communication with friends that I had on sense who went out of range of my sense, but I could still talk to them with chat.... I had to test it somehow... and its not like this is accurate to within a yard or three. There is no in game tape measure.
    I think it is a bit less for -Sense Jasons, and if this is so... then it may well be a bit larger for +Sense Jasons… I have not checked it for either... just on Part 4 who has neutral sense. The range of sense is increased in rage as well, going beyond the music radius... If I had to guess, I think it is doubled, but I am also not sure about that one... We need an in game tape measure now!... Damn this no new content thingy.
   I play against several people that use the no fear build and have never noticed one disappear out of range quicker... or appear coming into range closer than the counselor beside them whose fear is certainly at a different level. They always seem to appear or disappear at the same distance when travelling in groups. If there is a difference in range due to fear level, it cannot be much of a difference.
   Using the no fear build myself and managing my fear to the best of my ability, I have never had more success at avoiding Jason and his dreaded sense than when I didn't care about fear so much and used other perks.

   Composure affects the rate at which you gain fear from all sources... darkness, the presence of Jason, dead bodies and so forth... But others have tested the fear reduction rate and Jenny takes just as long to reduce fear as any other counselor. This is a part of composure many would like adjusted, fear reduction... Some feel that higher composure should reduce their fear faster than a lower composure counselor (this one has been talked about quite a bit in the past).
   Gaining fear is one thing, losing fear is a completely different animal... If the danger or source of that fear is still present, I think that the fear reduction levels are fine. If any adjustment should be made here, it should be lower composure counselors taking even longer to recover from fear, not higher composure counselors getting their fear reduction time reduced.... Fear should carry harsher penalties than it already does... It does not need a nerf at all. We can be at zero fear again when we escape or Jason is dead... and that Chad that was running our friends over with the car is arrested in the ending cutscene... Damned no new content thingy!

   Fear reduction perks reduce the rate at which you gain fear... They do not increase the rate you lose fear. I use them on everybody.
   Sense avoidance perks give you a percentile chance to avoid Jason's sense, determined for each use of sense.... Jason will see you or he will not. They seem to work just as well on a counselor at full fear as they do with zero fear. Even with sense spamming, you can detect a sense avoidance counselor 5 times in a row, or miss them 5 times in a row... or more than that... or less than that... Random number generators are weird. I do not think fear level affects this at all, but perhaps it should. I would not be against zero fear giving a 10% bonus to sense avoidance perks, as long as max fear gives a 10% penalty.

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On 4/28/2019 at 7:28 PM, Ahab said:

think it is a bit less for -Sense Jasons, and if this is so... then it may well be a bit larger for +Sense Jasons… I have not checked it for either...

+ Sense is just a shorter cool down timer.

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4 hours ago, Ahab said:

this one has been talked about quite a bit in the past

Lol, no kidding.

My experience has been the same with sense range and I use it to follow Jason around sometimes so it’s been proven to be true in my experience. It’s range is his music and the percentages are just that, he sees you or he doesn’t. 

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17 hours ago, Slasher_Clone said:

My experience has been the same with sense range and I use it to follow Jason around sometimes so it’s been proven to be true in my experience. It’s range is his music and the percentages are just that, he sees you or he doesn’t. 

Counselors start to accumulate fear when in range of his music.... just hearing it begins raising fear levels....without sense or fear reducing perks and moderate composure levels I am pretty sure this is what determines whether he sees you or not....

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3 minutes ago, OCT 31 1978 said:

 

Counselors start to accumulate fear when in range of his music.... just hearing it begins raising fear levels....without sense or fear reducing perks and moderate composure levels I am pretty sure this is what determines whether he sees you or not....

When following Jason, I stay just out of Sense range by listening for his music and watching him on the mini map. I hide behind buildings and trees, that if I was in range he’d see. Granted I’m doing it with a high composure Counselor ie. Mitch or Jenny but I’m still not convinced I could go in the music range and not be sensed. I might try it a bit this week but it’s time consuming and lowers my survival rate quite a bit. It’s possible I could slip in or out of his range and not be Sense but sound bubbles are the real enemy when you’re doing this, you have to manage them like bloody stamina and sometimes just freeze and hope for the best. 

I think Composure should play a factor in sense, but I don’t think it works like that now, even if it’s programmed that way. Someone might test it out and post footage, I’ll definitely give them a like if they do because I’d really like to know. 

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On ‎4‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 11:41 PM, Somethin Cool said:

+ Sense is just a sorter cool down timer.

   I was not sure... That is why I said... "I think +Sense.... yada yada yada.".... But thank you for the clarification.
 

On ‎4‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 12:33 AM, Slasher_Clone said:

My experience has been the same with sense range and I use it to follow Jason around sometimes so it’s been proven to be true in my experience.

   I try to use it to stay away from him, then do what I need to do after he morphs away. I have pretty good luck with it... but nothing works in every match.
   Also... walking away from him if you see him on the mini map is better than standing still. I do not think anyone gives off sound pings when walking, but A.J. can jog with zero sound pings. I do not take the chance of talking as I was never sure of the range in which Jason can hear you speak over the mic. As you said, sound pings are the real enemy.
    Managing sound pings is much harder than managing stamina or fear... All it takes is Jason seeing one of them and the direction you are in... along with a good estimate of how far away you are is now know to Jason... regardless of whether or not he sensed you.

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50 minutes ago, Ahab said:

  I try to use it to stay away from him, then do what I need to do after he morphs away. I have pretty good luck with it... but nothing works in every match.
   Also... walking away from him if you see him on the mini map is better than standing still. I do not think anyone gives off sound pings when walking, but A.J. can jog with zero sound pings. I do not take the chance of talking as I was never sure of the range in which Jason can hear you speak over the mic. As you said, sound pings are the real enemy.
    Managing sound pings is much harder than managing stamina or fear... All it takes is Jason seeing one of them and the direction you are in... along with a good estimate of how far away you are is now know to Jason... regardless of whether or not he sensed you.

Walking away can definitely work, I figure you know but for those who don’t, you can actually see when you’re going to give off a sound ping on your mini map. It helps to pay attention to when the bubbles grow out of your icon, you ping when it pops and starts over.

I might try doing it with Lightfoot (if I still have it) tomorrow. It’s not quite the same as what you do Ahab, I try to watch Jason for as long as possible from the start of the match if he shows up on my mini map around his first Morph but fails to notice me. I do run Sneaky, mostly for the window speed but also to increase the usefulness of hiding spots early on. I figure with NoS and Lightfoot I should be all set to spy on some Jason’s. Works best on small maps or Higgins but is doable on Crystal Lake and parts of the others as long as he doesn’t morph to far. It breaks up the monotony of a normal match and helps me work on being more evasive and can be fun for a game or three. 

I used to want a camcorder so I could make little documentaries about Jason, too bad it’s to late now. 

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17 hours ago, Slasher_Clone said:

Walking away can definitely work, I figure you know but for those who don’t, you can actually see when you’re going to give off a sound ping on your mini map. It helps to pay attention to when the bubbles grow out of your icon, you ping when it pops and starts over.

   Walking is very slow, and most just don't have the patience to bother with it. I remember a game from months ago in which I had two Lachappas left to kill and was morphing around everywhere trying to find them. No sense avoidance perks on at all... and no sound pings and they were not showing up on sense anywhere. I finally found them because I heard them talking, but they were not showing up on sense. It turns out, they were just walking around the map doing nothing, just chatting with each other over the mic... I just had shit luck in my morphing around the map and trying to find them with sense. But, remembering this... voice range is greater than sense range... at least before rage (this all happened without me going into rage until after I found them). Power had been out all over the map for some time and everyone else was dead, so their fear had to be fairly high at this point as well.
   They did show up on sense no problem once I got close enough to them and they gave me a good chase before I finally got them. They also thought it was hilarious that it took me so long to find them.

   About the sound pings on your mini map... I asked a few people here about that way back... I was told it is not an accurate representation of the sound pings you give off. After being told this, I got a friend to follow me around while he was playing Jason and tell me when he saw a sound ping... and he was not seeing them at the same times they came up on my mini map. I had to give him a kill to get an achievement for this... no teaming allowed, but I really wanted to know... But I do not remember who it was that told me this on the forums when I asked.
   As a side note... A.J. can run and give off no sound pings with the light foot perk... yet the sound pings still come up on her mini map. I have not bothered with light foot for some time though.

17 hours ago, Slasher_Clone said:

Works best on small maps or Higgins but is doable on Crystal Lake and parts of the others as long as he doesn’t morph to far. It breaks up the monotony of a normal match and helps me work on being more evasive and can be fun for a game or three. 

   Remember, small maps do give a big disadvantage to counselors after rage. Jason's sense range is increased enough that he does not have to morph around nearly as many times to cover the entire map with his sense range.... I think that is the only real disadvantage that small maps give to counselors.
    Also... practicing with any playstyle will help you get better with it. I prefer being sneaky... but I do not use the sense avoidance perks. The no fear build gives several advantages I like... never losing the mini map, stumbling far less (it is the stumbles that usually end up screwing me over when Jason is chasing me)… and stamina regeneration stays high as long as you can keep your fear low... I find this aspect to be better than using restful and marathon on low stamina counselors.

17 hours ago, Slasher_Clone said:

I used to want a camcorder so I could make little documentaries about Jason, too bad it’s to late now. 

    This would have been very cool... It could have led to some interesting game footage.

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Responding to the OP I don't think you'll glow red when Jason activates sense (pre-rage) it works like a hiding spot so you should be completely fine. However if Jason's in your camp your fear rate will skyrocket significantly because your flashlight is off and eventually your counselor will speak up very loudly saying stuff like "I hope he doesn't see me" or "Please don't come over here" and that's how Jason will pin point you.

I noticed that counselors can gain fear significantly fast if someone spots Jason with a flare gun from across the map.

Say you're at the north end of crystal lake and suddenly Jason's red icon shows up on your mini map but when you check your big map he's at the south end chasing someone. If you look closely to the edges of your screen, you'll notice that the black tint will grow super fast. It's even more noticeable if you're someone with <5 composure because they'll immediately enter Stage 2 of Fear (If your counselor wasn't already spooked).

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8 hours ago, Ahab said:

I was told it is not an accurate representation of the sound pings you give off. After being told this, I got a friend to follow me around while he was playing Jason and tell me when he saw a sound ping... and he was not seeing them at the same times they came up on my mini map. I had to give him a kill to get an achievement for this... no teaming allowed, but I really wanted to know... But I do not remember who it was that told me this on the forums when I asked.

Well, I may be mistaken and if I am, I’m sorry if I misinformed anyone. At this point I’m not even interested in testing it, as it would just leave me disappointed in the devs. Nope never-mind disappointed already.

edit - thank you for clearing it up @Ahab, I’m still annoyed that they aren’t connected as it was one of the first things I learned. Not sure what guide but it did teach me the basics of being sneaky and the other parts of my statements are still useful, so I’m not going to bother editing anything. If there’s ever another game like this one, I hope we get better information as part of the game itself, that way everyone will be on the same page. Journals or something.

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20 hours ago, Slasher_Clone said:

If there’s ever another game like this one, I hope we get better information as part of the game itself,

   It would be nice if some of this information was confirmed by the devs… We are left to our own observations without actual confirmation.

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23 hours ago, Ahab said:

   

   About the sound pings on your mini map... I asked a few people here about that way back... I was told it is not an accurate representation of the sound pings you give off. After being told this, I got a friend to follow me around while he was playing Jason and tell me when he saw a sound ping... and he was not seeing them at the same times they came up on my mini map. I had to give him a kill to get an achievement for this... no teaming allowed, but I really wanted to know... But I do not remember who it was that told me this on the forums when I asked.
  

I can also vouch for the validity on this one.

There's times where you're not giving off sound pings on your own end, but you are for Jason.  

Plus, and this one is screwy, if you're actively moving around the map giving off pings, where you give them off isn't exactly where you are in Jason's view.  

The accuracy of the sound pings, from either perspective, is not accurate nor reliable. 

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58 minutes ago, SirMang said:

Plus, and this one is screwy, if you're actively moving around the map giving off pings, where you give them off isn't exactly where you are in Jason's view.  

The accuracy of the sound pings, from either perspective, is not accurate nor reliable. 

   Also good to know... Without more precise morphing, this one would be extremely hard to notice. But the sound pings are still a good guideline for distance at least... it shouldn't be a perfect indicator of position anyway in my opinion. It is still pretty reliable just for their direction from Jason's perspective.
   Thanks!

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2 minutes ago, Ahab said:

   Also good to know... Without more precise morphing, this one would be extremely hard to notice. But the sound pings are still a good guideline for distance at least... it shouldn't be a perfect indicator of position anyway in my opinion. It is still pretty reliable just for their direction from Jason's perspective.
   Thanks!

They're in the general area, yes.

But if you're seeing them from a, lets say a running Vanessa, there is some delay.

Vanessa can easily be 100 feet in any direction from where you see the ping. 

So if you're using shift without sense, you're likely not going to see her or get to her.  But you're right on the morph, seeing it's not precise, you're not getting to where that ping is precisely anyway so you'll be in the neighborhood either way. 

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Counselors tend to move very linear(cabin to cabin) when not being chased by Jason. Searching for the "goods" and then eventually moving to the objectives. When i see a sound ping in a direction i open morph map and look for cabins/objectives in that area and 9/10 I will find someone at that morph spot rather easily. If unsure and there are 3 or 4 cabins/objectives in that line of sight i will split the difference down the middle and sense when i get there in what direction.

Funny enough, counselors also tend to move very linear(cabin to cabin) when being chased by Jason too! Many times i just missed shift grab and they run away full speed in a certain direction. I open morph map aim for the cabin in that sight line and have hit many morph grabs this way if they run across that morph landing spot. And if just miss they are likely out of stamina and are mine for the taking anyways.. 😈

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18 minutes ago, SirMang said:

They're in the general area, yes.

But if you're seeing them from a, lets say a running Vanessa, there is some delay.

Vanessa can easily be 100 feet in any direction from where you see the ping. 

So if you're using shift without sense, you're likely not going to see her or get to her.  But you're right on the morph, seeing it's not precise, you're not getting to where that ping is precisely anyway so you'll be in the neighborhood either way. 

   I usually hit sense before morphing anyway... and if necessary, when I shift as well... I find it helps in many situations. If there is a lot of stuff to block your view, using sense with shift just makes sense... I have lost counselors in certain areas... like the orchard in Pinehurst because I forgot to hit sense first... But following Vanessa through areas like this it is hard to lose the sound pings. She seems to have a very heavy step.

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1 hour ago, badassgixxer05 said:

.Funny enough, counselors also tend to move very linear(cabin to cabin) when being chased by Jason too! Many times i just missed shift grab and they run away full speed in a certain direction. I open morph map aim for the cabin in that sight line and have hit many morph grabs this way if they run across that morph landing spot. And if just miss they are likely out of stamina and are mine for the taking anyways.. 😈

That’s a great tactic, I’m kinda hoping people don’t take your advice, lol. 

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