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woundcowboy

post rage patch balance discussion

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Hey guys,

I thought it would be good to start a thread for our community to discuss its thoughts on the current state of the game and suggestions for future balancing. First of all, i'd like to thank @mattshotcha and @wes for continuing to show support for the game that we all love, even though the content has ended. The game is in a much better place than it has been in quite awhile. I'd also like to reiterate that this thread is for everyone to voice their views on balance,  myself included, so feel free to disagree

Counselor adjustments:

Vanessa: In my opinion, there is very little reason to play any character other than Vanessa. She can waste a ton of time because of her stamina pool. A competent Vanessa can easily waste 10 minutes, and possibly even more with thick skin, healing perks, and a pocket knife; she also has a workable repair stat. She would be tricky to balance but I would say to nerf her repair, stamina, or luck (so that she gets fewer weapon hits)

Bugsy: This counselor has no purpose. His best stat is strength, which serves no purpose other than to demask slightly faster (which Jarvis can already do). His terrible luck also means that he gets very few hits with a weapon. He needs slightly better repair and/or luck, which could be done at the expense of strength.

Shelly: The worst counselor in the game (sorry, Larry). He is another character with high strength (a garbo stat) and is lacking the more important strengths (stamina, luck). I would also suggest taking away strength to improve those other stats.

Jason adjustments

-Jason's mask comes off too easily, especially considering that he can be stunned and then immediately hit for extra damage. More HP would be good

-Part 4: Most would agree that part 4 is the worst Jason in the game. He is clearly intended to be an aggressive Jason but, unfortunately, that does not work well in this game. It is still going to take alot of time to catch counselors. Jason catches people with a decent shift, which this Jason lacks. It is almost impossible to stop the car with a negative shift, especially against an experienced driver. I think he should either receive a regular shift or more traps. 

-Savini: Much like Vanessa, there is no reason to use another character. He gets an insane number of shift attempts, as well as having strong map control and pressure. I would suggest taking away destruction and replacing it with sense or more HP.

 

As I said, I think that the overall balance of the game is good, but could use a few tweaks. 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, woundcowboy said:

I thought it would be good to start a thread for our community to discuss its thoughts on the current state of the game and suggestions for future balancing.

   You were not the first to think of this... but, welcome to the discussion anyway.

31 minutes ago, woundcowboy said:

The game is in a much better place than it has been in quite awhile.

   A great many people agree with you on this... Many of the people that have complained about it started their complaining before the patch even dropped, which indicates a biased opinion that should immediately be dismissed... Perhaps these people should have at least tried their spinach before declaring their disgust of it. Others that have complained about it made it perfectly clear with their own words that they were the trolls responsible for the piñata parties that made this balance buff for Jason necessary.

35 minutes ago, woundcowboy said:

She can waste a ton of time because of her stamina pool. A competent Vanessa can easily waste 10 minutes,

   In the hands of a competent player... Vanessa can indeed be a challenge to catch. But so can A.J. or Deborah or Mitch... speed and stamina is not everything. Some of the best players that I have played against were not using Vanessa at all. And I always use the slow, low stamina counselors... and I do VERY well with them... on ANY map.
   As to Bugsy and Shelly... there are many competent players out there who can use both of these counselors effectively... But I agree, they are some of the worst counselors to play, but this just makes it a challenge to use them. No matter what changes are made... there will always be a "worst counselor"... Changes here are not necessary, unless we want to see yet another "worst counselor" that someone else will come along asking for changes to be made to.

38 minutes ago, woundcowboy said:

Jason's mask comes off too easily, especially considering that he can be stunned and then immediately hit for extra damage. More HP would be good

    This has been suggested by many people, many times.
    Personally, I feel it will not make it any harder to get Jason's mask off by just forcing a couple extra hits that are already incredibly easy to get... and I have explained why in great detail in some of these other threads... It could still help at least by prolonging the inevitable demasking... but that is not actually making it any more difficult... It would still be easy, and would just take a bit longer... That is not making it "harder" it is just making it take longer to do it. 
   Jason needs a fair chance to block while still being able to fight back... Standing around for extended periods of time in block is really quite boring.

41 minutes ago, woundcowboy said:

Part 4: Most would agree that part 4 is the worst Jason in the game.

   Since all of the complaining about Part 7 finally gave way to changing his stats... most players agree that Part 4 is now the worst Jason. But As I pointed out then, and will point out again... no matter what is done with any Jason variants (or different counselors for that matter)… there will always be what is considered to be "the worst"... be it Jason, or counselor... Where exactly should these changes stop?... My answer is... Part 7 never needed a change at all... I did quite well with him before the changes were made... as did many others.

   Part 4 is my go to Jason for many reasons... and I do VERY well with him, particularly with the stopping of cars. Just ask @badassgixxer05. I use my strengths and weakness to force my self to get better... and I like Part 4 just as he is... It is pretty far from impossible to stop a car with him... it is just harder to do it than it is with a +Shift or neutral Shift variant...Experienced driver (which I can say I am as well) really does not matter here. It is all about the sneakiness... and amount of practice you have doing it.
   I do not care about the -Traps weakness... I only trap the fuse box, which allows for A LOT of practice at stopping cars... and with as much practice as I have gotten, imagine what I could do with a +Shift Jason variant... But when I do stop a car, I will trap the driver's side door if I have a trap left. I play this way when I do use other Jason variants as well... almost never using more than three traps even when I do play a Part 2 Jason.
   I do not care about the -Water Speed weakness... knowing where the morph pins are helps a lot at catching boats for any Jason variant... along with angle of attack... Even a slower torpedo will catch a faster ship with the proper angle of attack.... And as a counselor... I have been know to get past +Water Speed Jason's in the boat and escape... it is just much harder to do than it is against slower water speed Jason variants... If you can get them far enough behind you due to them having bad luck with a morph pin, or just Jason getting stuck on the wrong side of the support under a bridge... well... let's just say I have had a lot of very close calls, but I have still pulled it off many times... as my friends can verify for me... But very few friends that I play the game with and have seen this are actually here on the forums... @stephendedalus is one... @Johnos Firewalker is another... but neither of them are on the forums very much. I do not think Badass has seen me do this yet, but it is possible that he has.
   Shift is not required to catch ANY counselor as there are other ways to go about it... but it is VERY helpful in catching some troublesome kiters... it is just not necessary every time to use shift to catch any one counselor, no matter the skill level of the player or the counselor they are using... and it is never a good thing to lean too much on any one ability.
   Take away his destruction and I will NEVER play this Jason again and I will bitch about that change until the game dies... extra HP as it stands as a strength in the game right now is also a joke.

   Non of this is to say that people do not escape me... they do. Sometimes players will escape, no matter how good at playing ANY Jason variant you are... and sometimes against these same players.... you will get your 8 of 8... the circumstances in each match are different. But since the patch dropped, I have been seeing fewer 8 of 8's for a large number of Jason players that I have played against in the past... and far more escapes... And Jason players are still falling to Tommy's axe ridiculously easily.
   This is not a bad thing... players seem to have decided to push harder at objectives since the patch dropped... This is just making it more of a challenge to get your 8 of 8.
   I remember playing against you in the past... and it has been a while... And there is still no "R" in Ahab. I will give credit where credit is due... You played Jason VERY well... and that is all I am going to say about that.
 

1 hour ago, woundcowboy said:

I think that the overall balance of the game is good, but could use a few tweaks. 

   I cannot agree with you on this point more than I already do... and VERY few tweaks are still needed. Jason needs to be harder to kill... that is really about it. The Jason kill was meant to be difficult to pull off... and for it to be a rare sight to see... It is currently not difficult for a six year old to pull off, which is far from difficult. Hopefully, the next balance tweak(s) address this problem sucessfully.

   The counselors do not need a buff or a nerf... and they have not needed either for a long time now... Nor do any of their stats need a change... they are fine as they are. But there is a rework for the perks coming in the next few months at some point (no date has been given yet)… and it remains to be seen what is being done with the perks here... I am hoping that balance is not thrown to the wind with it in either direction.
 

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@Ahab well you did fool me on pinehurst last week by actually trapping the driver side door before it was started. I ran all the way across the map to find gas with a Random Shelly, run all the way back. Put gas in flawlessly run to drivers side checking map for  your location and quickest getway. and smack dab run into the trap. You spawn and the rest was history. Did I mention i hate shelly!? haha

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8 hours ago, woundcowboy said:

I thought it would be good to start a thread for our community to discuss its thoughts on the current state of the game and suggestions for future balancing.

Gee, wow, what a great and completely original idea. I'm glad no one else has done this 5,000 times already.

Okay, I'm being a dick and I apologize for that, but...yeah, there's been a lot of threads already dedicated to this, dude.

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2 minutes ago, Dolemite said:

Gee, wow, what a great and completely original idea. I'm glad no one else has done this 5,000 times already.

Okay, I'm being a dick and I apologize for that, but...yeah, there's been a lot of threads already dedicated to this, dude.

None that are on the front page or organized

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21 hours ago, badassgixxer05 said:

@Ahab well you did fool me on pinehurst last week by actually trapping the driver side door before it was started. I ran all the way across the map to find gas with a Random Shelby, run all the way back. Put gas in flawlessly run to drivers side checking map for  your location and quickest getway. and smack dab run into the trap. You spawn and the rest was history. Did I mention i hate shelby!? haha

   I "rarely" trap the car before it is repaired may be a better way to put it... But sometimes, when playing against friends who know exactly what I am up to... it is good to change things up just for a "surprise"... But with only three traps... I have to use my head and think about where the most effective uses will be... which is usually just the fuse box for me.

   I keep an eye on my fuse trap on the map too... Mooky goes for the fuse box as often as she can and is VERY sneaky about it... Much like I go for the boat as often as I can when playing a counselor... Many of us have predictable behavior in game... and after playing enough games with someone... our own predictability can be used against us... So now and again, we have to change it up... As the British used to say... "We must confound Jerry at every turn!"
   But for the most part... I will end up using all three of my traps on the fuse box... That "My dad's a cop" perk that you and Mooky both use really does not give Jason much time before the immanent arrival of the police... and some nights... like last night... I have a hard time missing the cars after they start moving.

   "Hate" is such a strong word when referring to Shelly... If he had not wandered into that barn in Part 3... Jason would probably still be wearing a potato sack on his head and he may never had discovered the wonders of old fashioned hockey masks. So in a way, we should be grateful to Shelly... I do not even want to think about what kind of cheesy looking mask Jason would have cobbled together if he had not found that hockey mask.
    In the game though... playing as Shelly is definitely a challenge... he seems to be a "Jason magnet" for some reason... and it is hard to see directly in front of him around all that hair.  

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I don’t think counselors stats really need adjustment. Every character has different uses and I’m sorry but Vanessa is meant to be used as a distractor so other counselors can get things done while she runs Jason around. As far as runners go, I much more prefer Tiffany over Vanessa. She is good for part delivery, and a Jason distractor as well. I will even repair as Tiffany if needed. Repair counselors love me in games bc I will get the parts to their destinations quickly. I’ve never been a huge fan of using Vanessa even though she is the best counselor in the game

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21 minutes ago, DontZzz34 said:

I don’t think counselors stats really need adjustment. Every character has different uses and I’m sorry but Vanessa is meant to be used as a distractor so other counselors can get things done while she runs Jason around. As far as runners go, I much more prefer Tiffany over Vanessa. She is good for part delivery, and a Jason distractor as well. I will even repair as Tiffany if needed. Repair counselors love me in games bc I will get the parts to their destinations quickly. I’ve never been a huge fan of using Vanessa even though she is the best counselor in the game

The problem is that she can do more than distract. She can repair and fight, as well as waste time.

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3 minutes ago, woundcowboy said:

The problem is that she can do more than distract. She can repair and fight, as well as waste time.

I know she can do a lot but she can also be sensed very easily. She is hard to catch/takedown. But once you finally get her it’s pretty rewarding

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23 hours ago, woundcowboy said:

None that are on the front page or organized

The search function is your friend.

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