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17 hours ago, DontZzz34 said:

But also a counselors missed swing is very punishable as well. I think the recovery for missed swings and missed grabs are both very poor. They both result in stun or a kill for Jason. That’d be the most balanced way to do it. Buff recovery on both sides. 

Missed counselors swings are about the same as missed Jason swings.  

Jason grab is far more 'punishable' when missing.  Which is basically backwards. 

I mean.. Momentum from a melee swing should take more time to recuperate from then a grab.   Leaning forward to grab things should be extremely fast, especially if the momentum behind the grab is slow pace walk jog.  

 

Grabbing should be easy...Its a grab.

 

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3 hours ago, HuDawg said:

Missed counselors swings are about the same as missed Jason swings.  

Jason grab is far more 'punishable' when missing.  Which is basically backwards. 

I mean.. Momentum from a melee swing should take more time to recuperate from then a grab.   Leaning forward to grab things should be extremely fast, especially if the momentum behind the grab is slow pace walk jog.  

 

Grabbing should be easy...Its a grab.

 

Regardless, both are an easy punish and they should make the time you are allowed for a punish much smaller. Meaning you as a player have to react quicker to the missed swing or grab. 

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2 hours ago, DontZzz34 said:

Regardless, both are an easy punish and they should make the time you are allowed for a punish much smaller. Meaning you as a player have to react quicker to the missed swing or grab. 

If anything melee slashes should have a longer recovery.. for both Jason and counsellors.

The grab recovery frames for Jason are already long enough.. If anything it Jasons grab should be quicker on recovery to make it less punishable.

 

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On ‎2‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 4:41 PM, DontZzz34 said:

But also a counselors missed swing is very punishable as well. I think the recovery for missed swings and missed grabs are both very poor. They both result in stun or a kill for Jason. That’d be the most balanced way to do it. Buff recovery on both sides. 

   A counselor's missed swing is nowhere near as punishable as a missed grab... and they are MUCH harder to miss with.
   Recovery for missed swings should be slow... it is realistic. Ever swung and axe or a bat before?

   Recovery for missed grabs should not be too slow.... it is a grab. No matter how hard you swing your arm, it will always be easier to stop in mid swing with a grab than it would ever be possible to do when swinging a weapon of any kind... But neither is Jason supposed to be "The Flash" either. He is depicted as being fairly slow to move, but much stronger than his intended victims. In the end, brute force always wins out... unless the smaller, weaker opponent has twenty years of combat training over their opponent... or they get extremely lucky. The counselors may (or may not) have the luck... but they do not have the combat training. They are teenage camp counselors, not veterans of the marine corp.

   Remember, balance here goes to Jason. He is the one that is supposed to be over powered, not the counselors... This is an asymmetrical balance game... Symmetrical balance comes with games that are supposed to be evenly balanced for both sides of play.... This comes in 1 vs 1... or 2 vs 2... or any other numbers of team mates being EQUAL on both sides.

On ‎2‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 9:45 PM, KenshiroHNK said:

I think that adding effects of Fear should help.

   This may be the best solution... but adding a "new" effect to fear would fall under the whole new content thingy.
   Fear should punish counselors a bit more than it does... but where to stop at this to keep a reasonable balance is the real question... And only existing game assets can be adjusted in this particular game... unfortunately. 
   There are a lot of people that feel the counselors fear effects should be nerfed... and the counselors should be as brave as a person sitting in front of a screen that has absolutely no threat to their well being... But fear will cripple the bravest and strongest... and people who claim to be "fearless" are full of crap. Everyone and everything alive feels fear under threatening circumstances. Fear leads to panic... and panic leads to stupidity and lack of co-ordination.
    The fear effect is a hidden mechanic for good "reasons"... but I agree that it should have more of an effect than it does... Just not "too much" more. 
 

22 hours ago, HuDawg said:

If anything melee slashes should have a longer recovery.. for both Jason and counsellors.

The grab recovery frames for Jason are already long enough.. If anything it Jasons grab should be quicker on recovery to make it less punishable.

 

   As long as a melee swing cannot be canceled, I feel the recovery for both Jason and counselor's melee swing is fairly realistic. But, with less stamina, perhaps the time before a second (or successive) swing can be taken should be increased incrementally as their stamina gets lower?... Just an idea, but with stamina boosts from a landed swing, I doubt this would affect much.

   I agree that a quicker recovery of the grab may be called for... and it would still fall under "realism" in my opinion. But many punishing strikes on a missed grab do come very quickly after the initial miss and would probably still happen even if some recovery time were shaved off the end of the animation... Hard to really say without testing though.

   Perhaps even a swing taken during a grab (missed or otherwise) will never stun him? After all, most swings do already stun him up until rage anyway. Even a greatly reduced chance to stun him if hit during a swing animation?... And I am not saying that this should leave a counselor in his grip if he is struck by a weapon at all. This would also still leave him open to a stun as he comes out of the animation (as with every other animation) when the strike is properly timed... Just throwing ideas around.

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3 hours ago, Ahab said:

   A counselor's missed swing is nowhere near as punishable as a missed grab... and they are MUCH harder to miss with.
   Recovery for missed swings should be slow... it is realistic. Ever swung and axe or a bat before?

A missed swing results in death 99% of the time. So how is it not near as punishable? It’s real easy to grab a counselor who misses their swing. Just like how it’s real easy to hit Jason after he misses a grab

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I actually agree with @HuDawg on this one. If the counselor is that close to Jason they should be easily grabbed. The scenarios that might lead to this are:

-Counselor runs out of stamina. If Jason runs down a counselor, it should be an easy grab, not a 45-second stamina showdown that just drags out the game because Jason’s grab *missed* when he was 3 feet behind a counselor.

-Counselor is limping. If the limping counselor is even in the grab vicinity, they should be easily grabbed, not swerve and avoid a grab once or twice while limping, turn and attack, limp away and crawl in a window dragging the match out. People who do this aren’t actually skilled, they just know how to exploit clunky mechanics of an indie game.

-Counselor is engaging in an action like opening a drawer, repairing, or even placing a trap. If Jason sneaks up during Stalk or just plain catches a counselor in the act, it should be an easy grab. The counselor didn’t use precaution and took the risk of doing something with Jason close by.

Too many times counselors can *juke* when they should have been grabbed. With all things considered, poor counselor choices and actions often don’t result in their appropriate death or even getting grabbed because players—again—know how to exploit the game mechanics. This is why I’m all for this patch. In the future. I’d like to see a refined grab that is shorter but has an increased radius. If the counselors is right next to Jason at any angle and for whatever reason, I’m so so sorry but you should be grabbed. “BUT I WAS SLIGHTLY AN ARMS LENGTH AWAY THAT WAS BULLSHIT1111” You’re right, you were in arms-length of a serial killer and slightly wiggled to the side and he missed you; that was bullshit.

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19 hours ago, DontZzz34 said:

A missed swing results in death 99% of the time. So how is it not near as punishable? It’s real easy to grab a counselor who misses their swing. Just like how it’s real easy to hit Jason after he misses a grab

   I see counselors miss a swing and not die all the time... but not necessarily every time... That is pretty far from 99% of the time. Once again, and inaccurate statement easily discounted by everybody that plays the game and chooses to be honest. 
   It "can be" easy to grab a counselor who misses a swing... It "can also be" extremely easy to miss them with a grab. It also WAY easier to punish a missed swing or a missed grab from Jason.
   It is also WAY easier to hit Jason with a swing from a counselor than it is for Jason to land a grab... and it takes far less skill to land a swing from a counselor than it does for Jason to land a grab.
   If you want to spend time in Jason's face 1 on 1... it should be damned hard to "survive". This is an asymmetrical horror game... if you want symmetrical balance... go and play a game with even numbers of players on both (or all) teams.
   Non of this should need explaining to ANY veteran player of this game.

   It sounds to me like you do not like dying in this game... WE ALL die often in this game... This is a "horror survival game"... not a "beat on the killer who can never kill anyone" game. If you cannot accept this, then I suggest you take up checkers... or perhaps, coloring books.

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