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3 hours ago, CountYorgaVampir said:

Unless those machete swipes that were taken while I was locked in a grab kill animation count? I didn’t think they did. 

Edit: Looks like that Adam had a bat, not a machete. Yeah, I don’t get it. She did shoot me at very close range. Maybe that does it?

Definitely not a glitch. I’ve knocked off Jason’s mask with a shotgun a few times and then the counselors says the same thing they say when they demask Jason like “I’ll kill you, I’ll fucking kill you” or “I know you can die Jason”. His mask can certainly come off with a shotgun legit. I think I may have even knocked it off with a flare gun.

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2 hours ago, Mince said:

I have not watched this entire clip. But I believe there is no way that the mask comes off in one shotgun hit. I simply have never seen that happen in all my time playing. Even if that Tiffany with the shotgun had some trifecta of damage-increasing perks for that one situation. Where is the footage from the beginning of the match? I have played in hundreds of matches where I've had to fight Jason tooth and nail to get the mask off. Most of the time that is not what I'm trying to do though, I'm just trying to survive.

I also notice that you put all of your traps at the shack. This means you didn't put any of them on the phone or cars. So for the first 5-10 minutes of the match, nobody was doing anything to escape.

Personally I just do not agree with the idea that Jason is weak. I guess I am 11 pages too late. But I don't see it having played the game almost since launch. The only possible counselor nerf I see being appropriate is being able to restart repairing until you get easier repair checks. You should have to complete whatever repair it gives you, so you can't cheese by on a low repair character. Maybe there are some other things out there, but I do not see Jason being weak. The notion of Jason hunting is absurd. In general the playerbase on PC is so bad that nothing gets done in most matches. A lot of Jarvis players have no idea what to do. Even when a kill is ready to be performed, there's a good chance of *someone* messing it up.

Many Jason players are so used to counselors running around aimlessly that when two or three people actually do help each other and fight back, the Jason gets mad and claims they are overpowered or cheating.

The PS4 maxes out video clips at 15 minutes, unfortunately, but that was basically the beginning of the match. At absolute max I was only 3 minutes into it because the two minute warning never appears. Wish I had the full proof that it was only the one hit but it is what it is. As to why I didn’t use any of my traps, as I said I was pretty drunk. I intended to use one on the car by the tool shed but wound up getting easily distracted by Mitch. I got too easily distracted a lot in that round. 

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2 hours ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

Definitely not a glitch. I’ve knocked off Jason’s mask with a shotgun a few times and then the counselors says the same thing they say when they demask Jason like “I’ll kill you, I’ll fucking kill you” or “I know you can die Jason”. His mask can certainly come off with a shotgun legit. I think I may have even knocked it off with a flare gun.

That wasn’t the question. The question was why did it take only a single hit to do it. 

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14 minutes ago, CountYorgaVampir said:

That wasn’t the question. The question was why did it take only a single hit to do it. 

I didn’t see what you said previously. Was it in the very beginning of the match it was knocked off? Because if so that is just bad luck. After a few swings of a weapon, a shotgun will easily knock it off.

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6 minutes ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

I didn’t see what you said previously. Was it in the very beginning of the match it was knocked off? Because if so that is just bad luck. After a few swings of a weapon, a shotgun will easily knock it off.

Because the beginning is missing the only way to tell is by gaging it by how long it takes shift to come online. I could’ve only used it twice at most in this round. I’d say it was basically the beginning of the game. It happens 1:30 into the clip with 13 minutes left to go until I win. 

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16 minutes ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

I’m pretty sure a gust of wind could knock off Jason’s mask at this point.

It more surprised me that firecrackers and flare guns do damage. Logically they would but it's still surprising. 

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5 minutes ago, thrawn3054 said:

It more surprised me that firecrackers and flare guns do damage. Logically they would but it's still surprising. 

A flare gun maybe, but there is no logic at all in either firecrackers or a bear trap being able to knock off a mask. 

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2 minutes ago, CountYorgaVampir said:

A flare gun maybe, but there is no logic at all in either firecrackers or a bear trap being able to knock off a mask. 

Doing damage is what made sense to me. You're right, they wouldn't make sense to  knock off the mask.

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3 hours ago, Mince said:

I have not watched this entire clip. But I believe there is no way that the mask comes off in one shotgun hit. I simply have never seen that happen in all my time playing. Even if that Tiffany with the shotgun had some trifecta of damage-increasing perks for that one situation. Where is the footage from the beginning of the match? I have played in hundreds of matches where I've had to fight Jason tooth and nail to get the mask off. Most of the time that is not what I'm trying to do though, I'm just trying to survive.

I also notice that you put all of your traps at the shack. This means you didn't put any of them on the phone or cars. So for the first 5-10 minutes of the match, nobody was doing anything to escape.

Personally I just do not agree with the idea that Jason is weak. I guess I am 11 pages too late. But I don't see it having played the game almost since launch. The only possible counselor nerf I see being appropriate is being able to restart repairing until you get easier repair checks. You should have to complete whatever repair it gives you, so you can't cheese by on a low repair character. Maybe there are some other things out there, but I do not see Jason being weak. The notion of Jason hunting is absurd. In general the playerbase on PC is so bad that nothing gets done in most matches. A lot of Jarvis players have no idea what to do. Even when a kill is ready to be performed, there's a good chance of *someone* messing it up.

Many Jason players are so used to counselors running around aimlessly that when two or three people actually do help each other and fight back, the Jason gets mad and claims they are overpowered or cheating.

I had to rewatch the clip to confirm, but I only had 4 traps to use on the shack. I had to have used one on one of the cars. I’m guessing the one down by the waterfront. That would account for the lost time. I’m almost positive that I went there first, then spawned to the tool shed where I saw Mitch about to put in a part and then used a shift over to that cabin. I never trap the phone first any more since it no longer spawns in the same house. I’ll concede that it is possible that he hit me with a machete there because one spawns there more often than not, and then it broke on him because Mitch has shitty luck. But I don’t remember it that way. Again, I had a few to drink. 

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32 minutes ago, CountYorgaVampir said:

I had to rewatch the clip to confirm, but I only had 4 traps to use on the shack. I had to have used one on one of the cars. I’m guessing the one down by the waterfront. That would account for the lost time. I’m almost positive that I went there first, then spawned to the tool shed where I saw Mitch about to put in a part and then used a shift over to that cabin. I never trap the phone first any more since it no longer spawns in the same house. I’ll concede that it is possible that he hit me with a machete there because one spawns there more often than not, and then it broke on him because Mitch has shitty luck. But I don’t remember it that way. Again, I had a few to drink. 

The only issue with that video is you're missing anywhere between 4-6 minutes of gameplay.  I know it takes a few minutes to get shift and at the start of the video you already have it active.  You can usually morph 3-4 times before shift becomes active.  So we're missing some time at the beginning where you could have been hit by anything, took a PK off a grab, walked into a bear trap, hit someone's firecrackers, etc...Meanwhile I'm unsure if you take any damage while in a kill animation...if so Adam did a minimal amount when you had Mitch in the animation. 

If we missed you take a PK, walk into a bear trap and Mitch machete, I can easily see that shotgun blast taking your mask off is basically all I'm saying. 

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1 hour ago, CountYorgaVampir said:

The PS4 maxes out video clips at 15 minutes

You can go into the settings on the PS4 and change that, I only know this because my son who has had his PS4 for a fraction of the time I've had mine showed me. I currently have mine set at 30 minutes. 

Besides that though, I think it is very possible the mask was knocked off with a single gun shot. I personally have seen the mask knocked off after one hit with a bat and then a gun shot, and that was within the first two minutes of the match (I died as Jason a few minutes later, lol). I can see Jason being de-masked with a single shot if the perks was stacked correctly. Stranger things have happened in this game.

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5 hours ago, SirMang said:

The only issue with that video is you're missing anywhere between 4-6 minutes of gameplay.  I know it takes a few minutes to get shift and at the start of the video you already have it active.  You can usually morph 3-4 times before shift becomes active.  So we're missing some time at the beginning where you could have been hit by anything, took a PK off a grab, walked into a bear trap, hit someone's firecrackers, etc...Meanwhile I'm unsure if you take any damage while in a kill animation...if so Adam did a minimal amount when you had Mitch in the animation. 

If we missed you take a PK, walk into a bear trap and Mitch machete, I can easily see that shotgun blast taking your mask off is basically all I'm saying. 

The absolute max is 3 minutes missing. Theres 14 1/2 minutes of video and the game ended before the two minute warning. Believe what you must but there isn’t any way that I would have wasted so many morphs without using more traps. No way. 

As a general rule I don’t tunnel players at the beginning of matches. Mitch was the first person I went after, so you’re not missing much.  Again, believe me or don’t believe me. Considering all of the bullshit glitches in this game I don’t understand why getting the mask knocked off the very first weapon you get hit with is so unbelievable and outside the realm of possibility. I mean, I’ve seen a Part 2 Jason with low hit points as a weakness be chain stunned and slashed repeatedly with machetes and axes, hit with guns amd the works and not have his mask come off until way after everyone used up all of their knives and sprays and only two people were left alive. Why couldn’t the reverse happen?

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14 hours ago, Slasher_Clone said:

Not sure if it was mentioned, it used to come up a lot in relation to this topic. Jason should get full rage as soon as his mask comes off.

If they wanted to expand on it, maybe let him recover his mask after one minute or off any body, resetting to half hit points when he puts it on. 

Funny you say this a friend said the exact same thing before you posted i think. He said recover mask should be a possibility and once recovered your at 20% hp or something low he was getting at.

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13 minutes ago, Fridaythe131 said:

Funny you say this a friend said the exact same thing before you posted i think. He said recover mask should be a possibility and once recovered your at 20% hp or something low he was getting at.

That's probably why he said "not sure if it was mentioned"...

If they're going to do that just give him more hit points (probably by nerfing weapon damage from counselors would be the easiest way but I would call it buffing Jason's hit points) and call it a day. How many chances should we give bad Jason's to get their mask back?

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12 hours ago, Somethin Cool said:

I don't.... It's a game of "race you to the Tommy box" now. I want it so a skilled Jason is just strong enough to not have to worry about Tommy boxing. I never did that shit before the grab update when they took meat sheilding away. The grab is definitely too narrow now. Widen it a bit and give me my meat shielding back...

@OCT 31 1978^^this is all I want^^

Yeah when they changed the grab it made it easy for counselors, even good Jason's miss a lot of shift grabs, even in a hallway it's too easy to juke him now, before it was a little easier to get someone but too many complained so now look what you've got lol honestly after they changed the grab I seldom play as Jason anymore, I just set my preference to counselor for the reasons of what you just said 

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Dropping in to shed light on a few things.

1. A single shotgun blast can 100% absolutely not remove the mask on its own, not on -Def and especially not on a base Def like Part 3. It is simply impossible, all it can do is help remove the mask either prior to demasking or deal the final damage that demasks. There is no glitch that makes it possible either. I was working on a comprehensive guide on all things related to stuns, damage, -Def / Less HP not too long ago, had most of the footage but dropped the project. Perhaps I should finish it since frankly it is ridiculous how misinformed people are on this subject.

2. Grab range is not ideal, it is technically too narrow, but is easily overcome by entering combat stance for a moment prior to the grab and allowing it to auto aim you in the direction of the counselor. It can be done swiftly and makes for an accurate grab. This is also only relevant for raw grabs, as if you perform grab off a block there is no way you can miss. Yes, there is an issue with block if you are client rather than host, but this can also be overcome by replacing block > grab with knife > grab which will interrupt the counselor's swing allowing for the follow-up (and knife recovery can be cancelled with grab).

3. As for discussion on whether Tommy box should be shown, unless we are talking at least a major mask HP buff then it should definitely be changed to a fixed spawn rather than randomized. The argument I've read that both sides should have equal chance regarding the Tommy call is very flawed, because it is not as if the Tommy box is permanently shut down. Just like any other objective, Jason can choose to prioritize it and defend it with traps, and counselors can choose to contest it. Not to mention any traps laid down at the box are less traps to lay elsewhere. Equal chance is also somewhat laughable when you consider that at least 1 of the 7 counselors will almost certainly spawn either close to the Tommy house or in view, if not directly at it. If Jason does not see it in the intro however, it is at best a 1/2 chance on certain maps if you are knowledgeable, but typically a 1/3. Choose wrong and you may lose your opportunity to defend it. 

As I've also mentioned before, no additional icons on the map are required. Learn your maps guys. All that would be needed is for the cabin to spawn in the same spot per variant (but could be in a different fixed spot on another variant). This way, casual play would be virtually unaffected since most players cannot even differentiate between variants much less memorize how objective locations differ on them. So logically, this change would be almost exclusively utilized in competitive play, exactly where it is needed. A no brainer of a change, to be honest. 

4. Onto mask HP. I've seen 200%, 300%, 400% buff thrown around, and as I was recently explaining to someone, all of those are simply inadequate. Consider the fact that there are approx. 4-5 machetes per map, 2-3 axes not to mention shotguns which also deal significant damage. Consider also that a single heavy hit from a Buggzy / 10 Str with machete deals 80 damage straight up. So let's say they provided Jason with 400% health, the max that I've seen here -  even Buggzy with his 2 Luck Stat gets 3 hits from machete which means you would not even break 2 machetes demasking a 400 health Jason. And that is even without Slugger which at max % will do over 90 per hit (one shot demasks a -Def).

So we are not talking 200%-400% health, we are talking much higher especially when you factor in gang bangs / mosh pits. As it stands, heavy hit machete attacks from a 10 Str will demask even a base Def Jason at full health in 14 hits while he is blocking. A few Buggzies wielding a machete each can surround any blocking Jason and kill the mask no time flat. If you are curious just how fast Jason can be killed with a good hit squad and ideal spawns, the record so far is under 2 minutes. Alternatively, the idea to retrieve the mask that I've read on here is also interesting, which would introduce some skill requirement for Jason to avoid the kill rather than being relegated to a tank (although the tank is the simpler option).

Final topic would be Combat, which I do have many thoughts on as it is my area of expertise in this game. But it most likely requires another post so I'll leave it for later.
@Fridaythe131 @Redrum138 Many thanks for the kind words guys, I truly appreciate it.

 

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48 minutes ago, Tommy86 said:

Dropping in to shed light on a few things.

1. A single shotgun blast can 100% absolutely not remove the mask on its own, not on -Def and especially not on a base Def like Part 3. It is simply impossible, all it can do is help remove the mask either prior to demasking or deal the final damage that demasks. There is no glitch that makes it possible either. I was working on a comprehensive guide on all things related to stuns, damage, -Def / Less HP not too long ago, had most of the footage but dropped the project. Perhaps I should finish it since frankly it is ridiculous how misinformed people are on this subject.

 

And yet it happened to me. As I said, feel free to disagree simply because I lack the proof and I’ll disagree with your certainty that a glitch like this cannot exist. You don’t have proof of that either. If a Part 2 can be glitched to become nigh invulnerable to mask removal then it stands to reason that a Part 3 could be glitched to have no HPs at all. Or maybe it isn’t the Jason at all but the weapon values that are messed up. There’s no way for us to know what in the coding causes errors like this. But I’m not going to pursue this argument any longer. Believe what you want. It doesn’t matter to me in the slightest. 

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34 minutes ago, CountYorgaVampir said:

And yet it happened to me. As I said, feel free to disagree simply because I lack the proof and I’ll disagree with your certainty that a glitch like this cannot exist. You don’t have proof of that either. If a Part 2 can be glitched to become nigh invulnerable to mask removal then it stands to reason that a Part 3 could be glitched to have no HPs at all. Or maybe it isn’t the Jason at all but the weapon values that are messed up. There’s no way for us to know what in the coding causes errors like this. But I’m not going to pursue this argument any longer. Believe what you want. It doesn’t matter to me in the slightest. 

I didn’t want to point this out, but since you insist. You were very clearly substantially damaged during the start of the match which is conveniently not shown. 

How did I instantly know? Your Rage meter is almost half full. At that point, based on Stalk just having began charging, the Rage meter of a Jason who has taken no prior damage would be just barely touching the bottom of the mask icon. Anyone can test this for themselves. So please, don’t BS me. And don’t try to tell me your Rage meter was glitched too.

I have also never seen a Part 2 being glitched to become “nigh invulnerable” to mask removal and the most likely explanation is that majority of your hits on him were stuns - which deal almost no damage. I would also wager you were using the Axe which stuns more often than not, which is the main downside of it vs machete.

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5 hours ago, tobirulezs said:

Yeah when they changed the grab it made it easy for counselors, even good Jason's miss a lot of shift grabs, even in a hallway it's too easy to juke him now, before it was a little easier to get someone but too many complained so now look what you've got lol honestly after they changed the grab I seldom play as Jason anymore, I just set my preference to counselor for the reasons of what you just said 

I like the new animation because it looks better but it definitely needs some work.

@Tommy86 Im not trying to challenge your  knowledge of this game but I'd like to pick your brain for a second here if that's ok.

I was giving Count the benefit of the doubt but I admit I didn't notice his rage meter.

As for the Tommy box I don't really think a fixed spawn point every match will be a good thing. I can take away any chance Jason has of defending that box short of camping it with one well placed counselor bear trap. I'm sure you know that. As much as it would help Jason defend the box it would also help the kill squad. Or anyone trying to get objectives done for that matter. Also It'd be a great early game distraction to go tank that trap to get Jason's attention off of something like an early phone repair. If they were to make it a random spawn but still show up on Jason's map I think that would be better but even still I think that'd be a better option for private match only. Since that's where most of the hardcore kill squads play anyway. 

Hit points:   I think if they widen the grab cone, speed up block, give Jason a little damage/stun immunity after animations, and give us our beloved meat shielding back, then lower hit points will become less of a problem. But something needs to be done about 1-2 hit demasks regardless because that's just ridiculous. I think they should take counselors doing more damage in combat stance away but an interesting thought I had was to leave heavy attack on Counselors and also give heavy attack to Jason. This way if someone wants to square up with Jason it's at the risk of dying faster. I don't see too many Counselors use heavy attack now although people tend to play Jason and Counselors very differently so it'd probably end up being abused to the point that every Jason would click in, slash, and click out just for the damage boost. 

I've seen you comment on specific things but what are your thoughts balance wise on the bigger picture? 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Tommy86 said:

How did I instantly know? Your Rage meter is almost half full. At that point, based on Stalk just having began charging, the Rage meter of a Jason who has taken no prior damage would be just barely touching the bottom of the mask icon. Anyone can test this for themselves. So please, don’t BS me. And don’t try to tell me your Rage meter was glitched too. 

This is what I'm saying, my go to guy! He knows what he's saying, no doubt!

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2 hours ago, Tommy86 said:

I didn’t want to point this out, but since you insist. You were very clearly substantially damaged during the start of the match which is conveniently not shown. 

How did I instantly know? Your Rage meter is almost half full. At that point, based on Stalk just having began charging, the Rage meter of a Jason who has taken no prior damage would be just barely touching the bottom of the mask icon. Anyone can test this for themselves. So please, don’t BS me. And don’t try to tell me your Rage meter was glitched too.

I have also never seen a Part 2 being glitched to become “nigh invulnerable” to mask removal and the most likely explanation is that majority of your hits on him were stuns - which deal almost no damage. I would also wager you were using the Axe which stuns more often than not, which is the main downside of it vs machete.

Okay, buddy. If you want to pretend that you know exactly how every glitch in the game works then go right ahead. You win, oh omniscient one. :rolleyes:

Machetes, axes, multiple shotguns, the works. Literally the entire lobby was attacking Jason with anything and everything for several minutes, stun after stun, slash after slash. No, the most likely explanation for that it was a fucking glitch. But again, believe what you want. Clearly things can’t possibly happen if you don’t see it for yourself. :lol:

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2 hours ago, Somethin Cool said:

@Tommy86 Im not trying to challenge your  knowledge of this game but I'd like to pick your brain for a second here if that's ok.

Sure thing, that's what I'm here for.

2 hours ago, Somethin Cool said:

As for the Tommy box I don't really think a fixed spawn point every match will be a good thing. I can take away any chance Jason has of defending that box short of camping it with one well placed counselor bear trap. I'm sure you know that. As much as it would help Jason defend the box it would also help the kill squad. Or anyone trying to get objectives done for that matter. Also It'd be a great early game distraction to go tank that trap to get Jason's attention off of something like an early phone repair. If they were to make it a random spawn but still show up on Jason's map I think that would be better but even still I think that'd be a better option for private match only. Since that's where most of the hardcore kill squads play anyway. 

Firstly, in regards to counselor bear traps blocking objectives, here is a post I made in the playbook thread on this very topic. In short, a counselor bear trap can still be circumvented. As I explained in that post I did want to include in my full trapping guide, but it would've taken far too much work considering the amount of ways a bear trap can be placed. All you have to keep in mind is the counselor repair animation for each obj, they are all shown in the intro of my guide which I recommend watching and memorizing. Use that knowledge to determine how you should place counter traps.

Secondly, the traps will of course be tanked and if it happens start of the match, so be it. It is just temporary defense to prevent immediate access, buy you time before your next morph and use up counselor resources. Multi-trapping also helps as 3 (or even 4) traps blocking off an obj can be too much for 1 counselor to handle on their own. It is all besides the point though, which is to provide Jason a guaranteed option to defend the Tommy call if he so chooses, and he can typically only do that on the 1st morph. Not to mention you must protect the phone, which is still fine to do on 2nd morph but after that you're pushing it.

Your idea to keep the Tommy cabin random but adding icons for it on the map also equates to the same thing as mine (guaranteed option). Additional icons however probably constitute "new content" as weird as it sounds and do not provide the full picture anyway, as a player is still required to know which power box is relevant to the cabin (it isn't always the box nearest to it). 

2 hours ago, Somethin Cool said:

I think they should take counselors doing more damage in combat stance away but an interesting thought I had was to leave heavy attack on Counselors and also give heavy attack to Jason. This way if someone wants to square up with Jason it's at the risk of dying faster. I don't see too many Counselors use heavy attack now although people tend to play Jason and Counselors very differently so it'd probably end up being abused to the point that every Jason would click in, slash, and click out just for the damage boost. 

I'm having difficulty understanding your idea here. Both counselors and Jason have access to both light attack and heavy attack in combat stance. The damage boost you are referring to is not due to using combat stance, but due to using heavy attack which is only available in CS. You can still perform light attack in CS however (lightly tap R2 on console) and deal the same damage as you do outside of it. Do you mean Jason should have a boost on heavy attack too? If so I wouldn't advise going that route, you don't want a +Wpn Str with the ability to cripple you in 1 hit.

2 hours ago, Somethin Cool said:

I've seen you comment on specific things but what are your thoughts balance wise on the bigger picture? 

It is quite a big topic, and mainly tied to combat which I intend to make a separate post about. Hopefully the new CM is reading all this.

@CountYorgaVampir Stop man, just stop. You asked me to provide proof for you, I did. It is there for everyone to see in the video and there is no possible way you could've had your Rage fill to that point, at that time in the match, without already having taken enough dmg for a shotgun to finish your mask off. As everyone knows, Rage meter accelerates when taking dmg. If you really insist I can show you an image of what a no damage Rage meter looks like at the same point in time (based on your abilities). Why you are still arguing otherwise is beyond me, but do as you please, I'm not going to participate in derailing the thread with some pointless argument.

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2 hours ago, Somethin Cool said:

I think they should take counselors doing more damage in combat stance away but an interesting thought I had was to leave heavy attack on Counselors and also give heavy attack to Jason. This way if someone wants to square up with Jason it's at the risk of dying faster. I don't see too many Counselors use heavy attack now although people tend to play Jason and Counselors very differently so it'd probably end up being abused to the point that every Jason would click in, slash, and click out just for the damage boost.  

Do you mean give heavy attack a separate button/key outside of combat stance? Light attack/free swing being R2 on ps4, assign heavy to a button like that? You don't really need to, CS can be toggled in and out pretty quickly. And light attack/sidearm swing is lightly tap R2, heavy is a hard press.

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