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tyrant666

Which Shark Do You Prefer? Part 7 Or Part 8

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This came to me when I started playing a bit again and after all the freebies/new players came aboard this past October.

Obviously prior to Part 7's updates where his stats were...

+ Water Speed

+ Grip Strength

+ Sense

- Traps

- Shift

- Can't Run

I think it was a no contest. Part 8 had the better mobility, more traps, a better early game with destruction, etc and the Grip Strength stat never was touched by the devs to make it a more meaningful strength with a damage amplifier of some kind to make it worthwhile for Part 7 or Part 3.

However now...I almost feel like if Part 7 isn't better, he's definitely on par with Part 8.

Reasons why...

1. Weapon Strength - I'd argue this is more valued than destruction, as you're trading off a couple extra door swings (combat stance or not) for more melee damage and given how at least half the playerbase tries to troll or kill Jason. Direct combat makes him a better play than Part 8, even with the new weakness of Stun Resistance. Also destruction is made less relevant due to single handed weapons destroying doors easily with combat stance, so the less swings doesn't matter.

2. He now has the same mobility as Part 8. Both share the same water and shift. I'd argue both of these Jasons actually have the best overall map mobility in the game, even when compared to the + Shift Jasons and Part 2's + Morph.

3. Some might say more traps for Part 8 will always be the reason why Part 8 is better, but for me, traps were only really useful earlier in the game's lifecycle

3A. When most of the playerbase didn't yet have epic medic, thick skin, etc

3B. When the devs decided to remove trap stacking, making it easier for counselors to overwhelm objectives because Jason can't stack them easily anymore to nullify all their perks

Nowadays, I'd say the trap weakness for Part 7 is void and null because at least half the playerbase doesn't really bother with objectives anymore and that's not to say there still isn't a healthy mix of low level/newer players and seasoned players who don't play for objectives, its just to say since trolling for the 20 minute win/trying to kill Jason is a thing with at least half the players. Trapping and monitoring objectives no longer seems like a constant priority.

4. Sense is more valuable than Stalk...YES...you can toggle Sense, unlike Stalk but Stalk is only really useful if again, you are dealing with a mostly objective oriented lobby or if you are dealing with a couple loners left who actually move around. Otherwise against groups, trolls or hunters, Stalk loses its value I feel. While it can be argued that Sense still has less value, it still has a longer duration, which also means you can track them with Shift or Morph much easier and you get the recharge bonus.

5. Grip Strength is a weakness for Part 8 and while it doesn't matter much with quick kills if you aren't surrounded, its still easier to get out of his grips.

All that said

There is no denying Part 8 is easier for newer players and an absolute beast with seasoned players as seen being used in many lobbies over and over. However I'd argue Part 7 feels on par if not better just based on the way the game has trended.

So that's just my opinion, its ok if you think Part 8 is better by far.

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You've made some really interesting points. I main parts 3 and 8. Part 7 has been my number three for sometime. I still feel part 8 is the better choice of the two, but only by a bit.

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Part 8. Weapon strength is such a useless strength on a walking Jason, at least against high calibur counselors that aren't free kills regardless. Same goes for Savini. Running Jasons like Part 3 ans Part 4 can actually close space ans land their hits, so I quite enjoy weapon strength on them. -Sense for some odd reason has increased range during rage that outclasses standard sense and +sense, so again that point goes to Part 8. 3 traps is also hot garbage and juat adds to the problems Part 7 has.

Honestly, Part 7 is still the worst Jason. The meme going around that Part 4 is worse is laughable. 

I have to say Part 8 by a very significant margine.

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Part 8 is my go to guy. Part 7 is my number 2. Both have slightly different play strategies but with both I nail most of the matches. 

Part 8 has the destruction, which is great help. However, Part 7 has the machete, which makes for faster swinging, so breaking the doors down don't take nearly as long as say, part 6, or 9.  The -traps for Part 7 are not a hindrance for me, one well placed trap is really all you need for each objective. The additional two can help, but most of the time are not needed. The boat is never a worry because the +water speed has that covered completely. Part 7's +sense is a great deal of help, one thing that cripples Part 8 for me, however, not a major issue. Part 8's +stalk doesn't really come in handy though, regular stalk is just fine, and very useful, a few extra seconds don't really make a difference for me. 

All in all, I agree, Part 7 is nearly on par with Part 8. The are my two favourites, and in my opinion, the two best in the game.

Plus, Part 8 equipped with the machete? Killing machine. He's like a superior Part 4.

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On 11/24/2018 at 1:43 PM, Nougat said:

Part 8. Weapon strength is such a useless strength on a walking Jason, at least against high calibur counselors that aren't free kills regardless. Same goes for Savini

 

Wait, what, no.  Weapon strength is valuable to any Jason, running or not.  Running Jason is still not going to catch up to a speedy jogging counselor.   Slash hits are going to come from wiff punishes, exiting shift, hitting counselor out of various animations, and poking though doors if you have the spear.  Part 7 Jason isn't all that bad (for a -Trap Jason) and I'd say Part 4 is the worst.  Part4 may do fairly well against mobs, but is powerless when objectives are moving.  Your better off just picking Part3 if you want a running Jason w/ weapon strength.

On topic, Part8 is better out of the two, but I'd rather play Part7 because of weapon strength.  I usually don't prioritize trapping cars anymore, so I have traps for TommyBox and Fuse.  If the car gets started, I like the challenge of stopping it, lol.

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2 hours ago, GeneiJin said:

Wait, what, no.  Weapon strength is valuable to any Jason, running or not.  Running Jason is still not going to catch up to a speedy jogging counselor.   Slash hits are going to come from wiff punishes, exiting shift, hitting counselor out of various animations, and poking though doors if you have the spear.  Part 7 Jason isn't all that bad (for a -Trap Jason) and I'd say Part 4 is the worst.  Part4 may do fairly well against mobs, but is powerless when objectives are moving.  Your better off just picking Part3 if you want a running Jason w/ weapon strength.

On topic, Part8 is better out of the two, but I'd rather play Part7 because of weapon strength.  I usually don't prioritize trapping cars anymore, so I have traps for TommyBox and Fuse.  If the car gets started, I like the challenge of stopping it, lol.

You can catch up to jogging counselors by cutting off the angle they are going to quite easily and punish stumbles with a slash because running Jasons close enough of a gap to actually hit a slash during counselor stumbles. I agree with hitting through doors, but shift-slashing is a very slow process considering you get one slash per shift, and then if you miss it takes even longer. Running Jasons also have a better chance of getting hits through doors on counselors who are retreating and are trying to shut/barricade doors due to closing in the counselors faster than walking Jasons.

My point being, your opportunities to land slashes as a running Jason are much more plentiful than your chances of landing one as a walking Jason.

As for whiff punishes, that works on counselors who swing more than they need to. Educated counselors who know not to waste stamina when Jason uses shift for its full length and who swing only when the hit is guaranteed are not going to be getting whiff punished by slash.

 

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1 hour ago, Nougat said:

You can catch up to jogging counselors by cutting off the angle they are going to quite easily and punish stumbles with a slash because running Jasons close enough of a gap to actually hit a slash during counselor stumbles. I agree with hitting through doors, but shift-slashing is a very slow process considering you get one slash per shift, and then if you miss it takes even longer. Running Jasons also have a better chance of getting hits through doors on counselors who are retreating and are trying to shut/barricade doors due to closing in the counselors faster than walking Jasons.

I'm not saying that Running don't contribute anything to Jason, but it doesn't mean +Weapon Strength isn't useful to powerwalkers ether.  Shift-slashing isn't always an option, but if counselor were grouped together, you may smack two of them, pressuring spray usage. 

1 hour ago, Nougat said:

As for whiff punishes, that works on counselors who swing more than they need to. Educated counselors who know not to waste stamina when Jason uses shift for its full length and who swing only when the hit is guaranteed are not going to be getting whiff punished by slash.

Jason's pressure game is obvious to any veteran of this game.  Correct that smart counselor will attempt to wear down the Jason's reactions to get a good swing in.  But Jason doesn't need to commit, counselor will have to eventually.  I space out counselors as they do to me, making them nervous about risking any swing while I plant high-percentage quick knives just outside my grab/slash range.  Most counselor aren't a issue, but obviously a Vanessa w/ stamina perks can take some time.  Vanessa are better to ambush, knowing how to stay off their mini-map to shift-grab, at the very least, remove their PK.  As for prolong shift, they still need to keep moving unless they want to risk being a easy grab, and I typically use strife-shifting to stay in place so I can watch their movement and get a good grab before shift ends.

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If I’m going to be completely honest,P8 is better in terms of gameplay and ability,but I like P7 better for his kills and appearance.Eviscerate is probably my favorite in the game.

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14 hours ago, GeneiJin said:

I'm not saying that Running don't contribute anything to Jason, but it doesn't mean +Weapon Strength isn't useful to powerwalkers ether.  Shift-slashing isn't always an option, but if counselor were grouped together, you may smack two of them, pressuring spray usage. 

Jason's pressure game is obvious to any veteran of this game.  Correct that smart counselor will attempt to wear down the Jason's reactions to get a good swing in.  But Jason doesn't need to commit, counselor will have to eventually.  I space out counselors as they do to me, making them nervous about risking any swing while I plant high-percentage quick knives just outside my grab/slash range.  Most counselor aren't a issue, but obviously a Vanessa w/ stamina perks can take some time.  Vanessa are better to ambush, knowing how to stay off their mini-map to shift-grab, at the very least, remove their PK.  As for prolong shift, they still need to keep moving unless they want to risk being a easy grab, and I typically use strife-shifting to stay in place so I can watch their movement and get a good grab before shift ends.

What I meant is weapon strength is a much more significant stat for running Jasons. It does have its uses on power walking Jasons too though.

Also I meant guaranteed hits as in hitting Jasons while they combat stance doors or windows. You can hit his hand/arm if he clips through a door with combat stance. Learning the spacing is difficult, but worth it since it gives you free stamina with no commitment.

I would use Part 7 over Part 9 and maybe Part 2, but that's about it.

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Part 8 is meta if you don't own Savini (who I think has one of the best kits). Unlike 7, he doesn't have a trap weakness, and can move around the map just as easily and efficiently. He lacks weapon strength and has low grip strength, sure, but 9/10 I grab kill anyway.

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- Shift is the most detrimental weakness to Jason. 

Part 7 and Part 2 are absolute trash because of this. 

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29 minutes ago, SirMang said:

- Shift is the most detrimental weakness to Jason. 

Part 7 and Part 2 are absolute trash because of this. 

Part 7 has neutral shift now.

Only Part 2 and Part 4 have - Shift now.

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1 minute ago, tyrant666 said:

Part 7 has neutral shift now.

Only Part 2 and Part 4 have - Shift now.

I haven't checked him out since they "buffed" him.  

I might have to give him a go in a few rounds and see what I think.  

I never played as 4, but I'll put him in the trash heap with 2 because of - shift. 

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On ‎11‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 9:48 PM, GeneiJin said:

  Part 7 Jason isn't all that bad (for a -Trap Jason) and I'd say Part 4 is the worst.  Part4 may do fairly well against mobs, but is powerless when objectives are moving.  Your better off just picking Part3 if you want a running Jason w/ weapon strength.

On topic, Part8 is better out of the two, but I'd rather play Part7 because of weapon strength.  I usually don't prioritize trapping cars anymore, so I have traps for TommyBox and Fuse.  If the car gets started, I like the challenge of stopping it, lol.

   The -Trap Jasons are the absolute worse for objective control... That is what I like about them... and I used them to practice at getting the cars once they are moving, by simply encouraging car repairs by never trapping them... Part 4 is far from powerless to stop a car... once you have enough practice at it with him... and getting good with the worst at doing something makes it easier to do the same thing when playing another variant that is considered... better... But there are certainly drawbacks to playing Part 4 in some circumstances... I still like Part 4 though... and am still trying to work around some of his weak points... Perhaps next time we play together, I will try Part 3... but it just takes forever and a day to knock a door down without that wonderful destruction strength.

    As far as a choice between Part 7 & 8... I like Part 7... Although I think Kane Hodder was the best Jason in the movies... he did not always have the best 'looking' Jason... other than Part 7... in my opinion this was the best make up job from any of the movies in the series. Then they forced him into the make up for Part 8, which I found cringe worthy... and Part 9... that one was the absolute worst make up job out of all the movies. Although, Jason X looked pretty good before his upgrade... and for what Uber Jason was... he was still pretty cool. Part 7 is just nicer to look at... and I am still playing -Trap Jason variants so my car catching skills do not get rusty... So few people go for the boat anymore... and even less even bother to try against a +Water Speed Jason... I see no point in the water speed strength... but I completed my torpedo badge some time ago almost entirely using Part 4 and his -Water Speed.

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@Ahab  unfortunately objective control is mostly pointless now.  With most people running hypochondriac, medic and thick skin, they can tank your traps as quickly as you can put them down.   With my perks I can tank a double trapped phone box, spray and be long gone before Jason shows up.  Sure it makes me use 1 of my 2 med sprays, but if I start near the fuse box, I'll have his traps off the phone box in the first minute of the match. 

You know my thoughts on the car and a negative shift Jason is at an even bigger disadvantage against them. 

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I still trap the objectives. most counselors only tank them when they have a part so when i morph there they have to run for there lives anyways. I play like you and try to tank them nice and early in hopes that he comes and chases me for a bit while others get the parts in..

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25 minutes ago, badassgixxer05 said:

I still trap the objectives. most counselors only tank them when they have a part so when i morph there they have to run for there lives anyways. I play like you and try to tank them nice and early in hopes that he comes and chases me for a bit while others get the parts in..

I'll tank them whenever I come across them, the earlier in the match the better. 

I made a random Jason rage when I spawned in the fuse house and made sure he knew I was there.  He broke down the door and I went outside through a window.  Tanked the first trap off the fuse box.  He started walking towards me so I went back into that same window, he decided to come back through the door as I went out the window and tanked the second trap, I used my spray right in front of him and took off into the next cabin.  He was throwing a fit over the mic that what I did was cheap, it wasn't the way to play, I was cheating, I was scum, etc...  He then decided to take out a window I was by and I combat stance stunned him through the window.  The match then ended with him telling me to go F myself and he quit. 

But if I'm just out and about and by the car and see a trap, I'll tank it on purpose so that later in the match someone can walk right up and put the part in.  

My playstyle as a counselor makes me question why I bother trapping anything as, in my opinion, they're pointless.  The only way to trap something that would be a  deterrent to tanking traps off is if someone put all 5 of their traps on the fuse box as I'd have to tank 3 off to allow access. 

 

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14 minutes ago, SirMang said:

@Ahab  unfortunately objective control is mostly pointless now.  With most people running hypochondriac, medic and thick skin, they can tank your traps as quickly as you can put them down.   With my perks I can tank a double trapped phone box, spray and be long gone before Jason shows up.  Sure it makes me use 1 of my 2 med sprays, but if I start near the fuse box, I'll have his traps off the phone box in the first minute of the match. 

You know my thoughts on the car and a negative shift Jason is at an even bigger disadvantage against them. 

   I have no problem with people tanking traps when I use a -Traps Jason, and it is not like it never happens... I use them sparingly for several reasons... but I check my map often and know what to look for with the trap icon...  Even if they get the call to the cops off, they usually pay for it with their lives... although a few others may still actually make it out... shit happens.
   Most people have always been running thick skin / medic for tanking purposes. I have known that since I started playing. It did not help them then, it does not help them now... but we all have good games and bad... and sometimes we will get low kill counts... and sometimes we will get high kill counts.
   As far as kill counts go, I do very well with Part 4... and with Part 7... when I use Part 7 that is, I have not been switching off of Part 4 very often for a long time... But Part 7 is my second choice. I just enjoy the challenge of map control with fewer traps... I can control the map much better with more traps, I simply choose the more difficult option to keep skills sharp. Getting 7/7 or 8/8 is not that important to me... I like to play with my food... I mean victims.
   Even when I do play a Jason variant with more traps than I am used to... I still rarely trap the car... and rarely do I use more than three traps even on those rare occasions I play Part 2.

   I do miss the car now and again, but lately... I have not been having even a little bit of trouble stopping it with Part 4. Had one of my best nights for number of times stopping the car a couple nights ago... I was having a hard time missing the car that night... and the drivers were still damned good players that know all about the whole mini map thingy... at least the ones I know. There were a couple of random drivers I have never played with before... high level players for the most part, but not sure how skilled they really were, they could have just been having a bad game... or maybe I was just very lucky that night. 

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10 minutes ago, Ahab said:

   I have no problem with people tanking traps when I use a -Traps Jason, and it is not like it never happens... I use them sparingly for several reasons... but I check my map often and know what to look for with the trap icon...  Even if they get the call to the cops off, they usually pay for it with their lives... although a few others may still actually make it out... shit happens.
   Most people have always been running thick skin / medic for tanking purposes. I have known that since I started playing. It did not help them then, it does not help them now... but we all have good games and bad... and sometimes we will get low kill counts... and sometimes we will get high kill counts.
   As far as kill counts go, I do very well with Part 4... and with Part 7... when I use Part 7 that is, I have not been switching off of Part 4 very often for a long time... But Part 7 is my second choice. I just enjoy the challenge of map control with fewer traps... I can control the map much better with more traps, I simply choose the more difficult option to keep skills sharp. Getting 7/7 or 8/8 is not that important to me... I like to play with my food... I mean victims.
   Even when I do play a Jason variant with more traps than I am used to... I still rarely trap the car... and rarely do I use more than three traps even on those rare occasions I play Part 2.

   I do miss the car now and again, but lately... I have not been having even a little bit of trouble stopping it with Part 4. Had one of my best nights for number of times stopping the car a couple nights ago... I was having a hard time missing the car that night... and the drivers were still damned good players that know all about the whole mini map thingy... at least the ones I know. There were a couple of random drivers I have never played with before... high level players for the most part, but not sure how skilled they really were, they could have just been having a bad game... or maybe I was just very lucky that night. 

Stalk is very very useful for stopping the car. No help for them from minimap.

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2 minutes ago, badassgixxer05 said:

Stalk is very very useful for stopping the car. No help for them from minimap.

   Stalk does not always make you disappear from the mini map unfortunately... but it should. As @SirMang has pointed out many times before... once you see Jason on the mini map as the driver of the car, he does not leave that player's mini map... he remains visible until they escape, or the driver exits the car and loses sight of Jason. This does make it easy to avoid Jason with the car.
   Next time you are driving the car, check it out. It has been a long time since Jason disappeared from the driver's mini map once he is on it. It is a bit over powered, but I think the only change required is that stalk should always remove Jason from the mini map, regardless of the circumstances.

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2 hours ago, badassgixxer05 said:

Stalk is very very useful for stopping the car. No help for them from minimap.

Unfortunately, AFAIK, stalk is completely useless in stopping the car. 

This game's Line of Sight on Jason is absolutely massive.  I've done tests with a friend who could pinpoint exactly when I morphed and to where I morphed even though I was nowhere near him when I initially hit stalk and then morph.  

I think it's not a big deal because most people have enough issues avoiding a fence when they're trying to make a curve, let alone avoid a shifting Jason that'll show on their mini-map.  However there are a small percentage of players who I know that can drive Jason around for 15+ minutes because of it if they really feel like it.  In that case it's completely overpowered and Jason has zero ability of his own to stop that driver. 

Now obviously you could morph close to the road and behind a cabin, of course that requires you knowing almost every morph point on the map because you'll have to click the right place on the map and the right morph point to be behind a cabin.  And then you can try to ambush the car, however you have to come out, and once you do, the driver is going to see you on the mini-map and once that happens, Jason stays on the drivers mini-map for the duration of the time the person decides to keep driving.  The driver will then see every shift you make and every morph you attempt regardless if you go into stalk again. 

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Personally I prefer part 8, though I will say I'm totally open to shaking things up with part 7 every once in a while. In fact, I had a game a while back where I played as part 7 for the first time in literally MONTHS, and I don't know if it was due to the part 7 update, or what, but I somehow managed to get all 8 out of 8 kills that game, and let me add that this was a game where most of the counselors ganged up on me. Wasn't expecting that given all the bad things I had heard about part 7 Jason prior to the update. 

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10 minutes ago, JasonLives86 said:

Personally I prefer part 8, though I will say I'm totally open to shaking things up with part 7 every once in a while. In fact, I had a game a while back where I played as part 7 for the first time in literally MONTHS, and I don't know if it was due to the part 7 update, or what, but I somehow managed to get all 8 out of 8 kills that game. Wasn't expecting that given all the bad things I had heard about part 7 Jason prior to the update.

The update helped him tremendously. I used to struggle so badly with part 7.

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