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K1tT3n

Potential way to stop counsellors from bullying jason

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Hi!

Just made this account since I got this idea on how to hopefully stop counsellors from constantly harassing Jason players, and I don't think it will harm any other playstyles. Anyway, what if sprinting had a gradual speed increase? What I mean is that there is a short period where the counsellor first begins sprinting where they  gradually hit their respective top speed over, say, 1-2 seconds. This would make the movement of counsellors much more natural and punish players for hanging around the same spot for too long. For now there wouldn't need to be a new running animation due to the inability to add new F13 content, but if they are allowed to again then it would be nice to see the animation altered if this were added.

Not sure if anyone has suggested this but i'm putting it out there just in case :)

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47 minutes ago, Dragonfire82877 said:

I’m at a loss here. How would this stop counselors from bullying Jason? 🤔

   It wouldn't. As long as he is easily stunnable… it will be easy to stun him over.... and over... and over...

@K1tT3n It is not a bad idea for the sake of realism... it takes time to reach top speed. Although some people can reach their maximum sprinting speed pretty damned quick. But Jason cannot catch any counselor who is jogging as it is now (unless they have penalties to speed on their perks and they are a 3 speed counselor... or they run out of stamina).
    Also... welcome to the forums!

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8 hours ago, Ahab said:

   It wouldn't. As long as he is easily stunnable… it will be easy to stun him over.... and over... and over....

I agree that stun needs to be addressed. That alone could solve a few problems.

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On 11/21/2018 at 1:33 PM, K1tT3n said:

Hi!

Just made this account since I got this idea on how to hopefully stop counsellors from constantly harassing Jason players, and I don't think it will harm any other playstyles. Anyway, what if sprinting had a gradual speed increase? What I mean is that there is a short period where the counsellor first begins sprinting where they  gradually hit their respective top speed over, say, 1-2 seconds. This would make the movement of counsellors much more natural and punish players for hanging around the same spot for too long. For now there wouldn't need to be a new running animation due to the inability to add new F13 content, but if they are allowed to again then it would be nice to see the animation altered if this were added.

Not sure if anyone has suggested this but i'm putting it out there just in case :)

Pretty sure this is a new suggestion, can’t recall it ever being discussed, so bonus points for that @K1tT3n. I don’t think that this mechanic would go over well with people, not because I don’t think it will accomplish your goal, it may but because it will have the unintended consequence of making shift grabs ridiculously OP. The speed that Counselors go from 0 to 60 is intimately tied to how people dodge shifts, people would adapt but not before we all have to live through a shit storm of complaints that they broke the game again. 

I’d like this idea to be explored if or when a sequel is made. Until then @Ahab answer is the best you’re likely to get and welcome to the forums as well.

edit

@Dragonfire82877, If you come to a complete stop after every swing, bait and punish will no longer work to get free hits on Jason as he will get a slash or grab off before you can get up speed to run away. Assuming he isn’t stunned by the attack of course. Currently Counselors can tweak Jason’s nose and then run out of his way before a swing can even hit them.

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7 hours ago, Slasher_Clone said:

The speed that Counselors go from 0 to 60 is intimately tied to how people dodge shifts, people would adapt but not before we all have to live through a shit storm of complaints that they broke the game again. 

 

   This point never occurred to me, but I think you are correct. In many circumstances, this would lead to an easy shift grab that normally would have been avoided... And then of course, the shit storm of complaints would follow.

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I know what could be done , and everyone would be happy.

Why not? make a passive buff or nerf that would activate as the following:

As a specific range around Jason that could detect if there are 3 or more counselors in the nearby 30 m range , a buff would be applied , increasing Jason's chances of not being stunned. 

Or each counselor would have a specific range and if 3 or more are connected in any shape of form , the game would recongnise them as a "bullying group" and a nerf would be applied by decreasing their chances of stunning Jason .

 

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1 hour ago, DeadDuck said:

I know what could be done , and everyone many people would be happy.

Why not? make a passive buff or nerf that would activate as the following:

As a specific range around Jason that could detect if there are 3 or more counselors in the nearby 30 m range , a buff would be applied , increasing Jason's chances of not being stunned. 

Or each counselor would have a specific range and if 3 or more are connected in any shape of form , the game would recongnise them as a "bullying group" and a nerf would be applied by decreasing their chances of stunning Jason .

 

The bully groups would likely not be happy about such a change.

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On 11/22/2018 at 2:12 PM, Ahab said:

   It wouldn't. As long as he is easily stunnable… it will be easy to stun him over.... and over... and over...

@K1tT3n It is not a bad idea for the sake of realism... it takes time to reach top speed. Although some people can reach their maximum sprinting speed pretty damned quick. But Jason cannot catch any counselor who is jogging as it is now (unless they have penalties to speed on their perks and they are a 3 speed counselor... or they run out of stamina).
    Also... welcome to the forums!

Does your Jason wear shackles? Running Jasons catch Jenny sprinting much less jogging.

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Maybe they could make it so Jason has a speed increase while in a chase. They could have it tailored to each counselors speed. That way Jason can put more pressure on a counselor without out right over running them.

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On 11/23/2018 at 12:24 PM, Slasher_Clone said:

I don’t think that this mechanic would go over well with people, not because I don’t think it will accomplish your goal, it may but because it will have the unintended consequence of making shift grabs ridiculously OP. The speed that Counselors go from 0 to 60 is intimately tied to how people dodge shifts, people would adapt but not before we all have to live through a shit storm of complaints that they broke the game again. 

Shift grabbing would only be OP with this change if the counselors were too close to jason when he begins to shift and if they weren't prior to the beginning of the shift. It wouldn't change the interaction of Stalk+Shift as counselors wouldn't know the shift was coming if jason was in stalk so the grab would already be easy.

In a way it will encourage counselors to not wait around close to jason and punish group ups if one person tries to split away from the group to do objectives, further punishing the bully group playstyle.

For characters with less stamina that would need to stop to regain stamina, this would force them to play around the cabins a lot more instead of wandering around in the middle of the forest (the only iffy place would be at the repair shop area of Crystal Lake).

For faster characters, it would hopefully reduce their effectiveness at evading swings/grabs when literally touching jason and make attacking jason with a weapon a lot more risky. A benefit of this could be the fact that they may begin to focus more on transporting items around the map for slower characters, which is a much more beneficial use of these characters.

 

On 11/22/2018 at 7:12 PM, Ahab said:

As long as he is easily stunnable… it will be easy to stun him over.... and over... and over...

In regards to the concerns around jason being stunned all the time, a good first change could be to just reduce the availability of consistent one hit stun weapons such as baseball bats and flare guns as one of those 2 seems to spawn in every cabin right now.

The decreased spawn rates of these items could be coupled with an increased spawn rate of weapons such as pots and pans as they are okay for stunning but not always a guarantee, while also being something you'd expect to find everywhere in camping areas. This would mean that there would still be the same general volume of weapons on the map each match, but good weapons would become more of a luxury for counselors similarly to how they changed pocket knives.

For characters that basically rely on being able to stun jason as they have high strength (mainly Bugzy players), they could tweak the higher value strength stats to allow these characters to stun jason slightly more consistently than other characters so they can still help protect slower counselors.

 

TLDR: There is a VERY low chance of shift grabbing becoming OP from this change (in my opinion) and it would cause counselors to actually be SCARED of jason again as they wouldn't have as much power as the previously had.

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Easy way to fix it without actually putting in any effort?...

Limit the types of items counselors can carry.

That solves it right there.

Counselors can only carry one of any item. So if you are one of the many who run thick skin, medic. You'll only be able to carry one spray for two uses at a time and in the hands of good counselors, even that is a lot, but its something. If you are someone who tries to loot cabins for pocket knives. You'll only be able to carry one pocket knive, etc.

Limited the amount of supplies counselors can carry would make them much less comfortable.

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7 hours ago, tyrant666 said:

Easy way to fix it without actually putting in any effort?...

Limit the types of items counselors can carry.

That solves it right there.

Counselors can only carry one of any item. So if you are one of the many who run thick skin, medic. You'll only be able to carry one spray for two uses at a time and in the hands of good counselors, even that is a lot, but its something. If you are someone who tries to loot cabins for pocket knives. You'll only be able to carry one pocket knive, etc.

Limited the amount of supplies counselors can carry would make them much less comfortable.

This would stop a potential troll from grabbing both sets of keys and holding them hostage.

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On ‎11‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 3:38 PM, Nougat said:

Does your Jason wear shackles? Running Jasons catch Jenny sprinting much less jogging.

   There are only a few ways a running Jason can catch the slow counselors on foot... If the counselor has a speed penalty on their perks... If Jason has a proper angle of attack, he can catch up to you, but he is not faster than the slowest joggers when following directly behind them, let alone when they are sprinting... or he uses throwing knives to slow them down.
    If he is running directly behind the slow counselors, he cannot catch them until they run out of stamina... I play the 3 speed counselors all the time... so, maybe it is your counselors that are wearing the shackles... or you are talking about playing this game in an alternate world... not sure which.

@DeadDuck Interesting suggestion... I have also suggested that stun chance be reduced for each counselor nearby, above the first that is.

@Fair Play The 'bully groups' will be unhappy with any change that makes it harder for them to bully Jason... But... too bad for them, one day they might even have to face a Jason worthy of the name... Voorhees.

@Azmodan_Rising Taking out counselors that like to hang out alone will always be easy... But please, enlighten us on how to force players to slit up when they refuse to split up because they know they have a numbers advantage and splitting up would just be a dumb thing for them to do.

@K1tT3n Shift will never be overpowered when Jason is close to counselors... a close range shift is way easier to dodge than a long range shift, even for the slowest counselors. If the grab cone was widened, this might be different... but I like the current grab as it is.
   As long as Jason is stunned as easily as he is... players that want to beat on him will not be running away from him. There is no reason to fear anyone who can be stunned so easily.
   Counselors with low stamina are already forced to be careful with their stamina, whether they are near cabins or at the furthest point on the map from the nearest cabin. Those who do not manage their stamina are often caught with very low, or no stamina.
   With Jason being so easy to stun... nothing is going to reduce their effectiveness at stunning him... unless the chance to stun is reduced to the point where they have to wonder if a hit will stun him or not... like it already is with many of the weapons.

   You were not around the last time they reduced the number of weapons... the river of tears is still flowing in some areas of the world. A further reduction in weapons would not go over well with most of the community. People do tend to cry when you take away their toys.
   The pan is literally 100% stun chance, it is just very fragile for some reason.
   Strength has absolutely nothing to do with stun chance... that is tied to weapons only.... just as Stun Resistant Jason can be stunned with the same frequency as the others... Jason's stun resistance only affects the length of time he remains stunned.

   Counselors really do not need a buff at this point, nor do they need to be nerfed. Jason needs a few things tweaked, but he really does not need much either.
   
@tyrant666 You are correct, limiting counselors to one item might make them think twice about certain things... but it also punishes everyone else who does not play that way. There are other ways to fix the problem.

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23 hours ago, Ahab said:

The 'bully groups' will be unhappy with any change that makes it harder for them to bully Jason... But... too bad for them, one day they might even have to face a Jason worthy of the name... Voorhees.

It's a given that no one likes being singled when it comes to change. There would be a tremendous amount of salt generated if such a thing were to happen. I better stock up on popcorn for that day.

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41 minutes ago, Fair Play said:

It's a given that no one likes being singled when it comes to change. There would be a tremendous amount of salt generated if such a thing were to happen. I better stock up on popcorn for that day.

   They can be salty all they like... most of the people doing this kind of thing are damned rude to the Jason player... which is frighteningly stupid of them... That same player will be their team mate in the next match... Let alone the fact that this is a tactic most often used by trolls... and only used to annoy players. People that have fun by annoying other people are assholes, plain and simple. And the world would be a better place if trolls were extinct.
   I always have popcorn around though... for just such an emergency... and popcorn always need salt.

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I'm totally for Jason having more buffs, based on the amount of sound and fear surrounding him.

What if Jason simply get a bit of HP regeneration and a bonus to cripple counsellors and/or having their weapons breaking more of ten on him ?

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6 hours ago, Ahab said:

   They can be salty all they like... most of the people doing this kind of thing are damned rude to the Jason player... which is frighteningly stupid of them... That same player will be their team mate in the next match... Let alone the fact that this is a tactic most often used by trolls... and only used to annoy players. People that have fun by annoying other people are assholes, plain and simple. And the world would be a better place if trolls were extinct.
   I always have popcorn around though... for just such an emergency... and popcorn always need salt.

I'm working on an extinction method to deal with the trolls. It won't be easy unless I tap into necromancy.

The next time you have a party at your house, you supply the popcorn, and I'll bring the beer.

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As a (still) newbie player I find it very hard to enjoy the game when a group of skilled counsellors keep bulling me as Jason, so I think this would be something to fix to make it more enjoyable. I mean, what's the deal in being a semi-supernatural unstoppable killer and being stunned by a girl with a pot?

I think the stunning ability of counsellors should be a growing skill, not a perk but something they grow somehow by playing, and it should also be relative to weapon type and time: I can accept if he falls down after an axe swing or machete hit, but pots, branches and other small items should require at least more hit to give effect, and have less durability (a big killer vs a little piece of wood? Who do you thing would broke first?).

And Jason should have some sort of increased rage after a stun, maybe for 10 seconds nothing can bother him after he gets up.

Just my two cents, I still enjoy being Jason even with 3/4 kids mocking me for my lack of experience and constantly beating my masked friend and dancing in front of his lying body :)

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14 hours ago, Fair Play said:

I'm working on an extinction method to deal with the trolls. It won't be easy unless I tap into necromancy.

The next time you have a party at your house, you supply the popcorn, and I'll bring the beer.

   Necromancy is a very smelly hobby... but has its uses. That is a hobby I try to keep to the outdoors.

  I always have lots of popcorn... but people that know me do not often offer to buy my beer... it can make for an expensive night for them. But... I appreciate the offer... I rarely throw parties though... my friends always find the most inventive places to stash their empties.

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10 hours ago, Venerdì 17 said:

Just my two cents, I still enjoy being Jason even with 3/4 kids mocking me for my lack of experience and constantly beating my masked friend and dancing in front of his lying body :)

That's the thing about kids. As a learned behavior, they mock because they don't want to seem uncool to their peers. Eventually, most grow out of it. Those that carry that mindset into adulthood, I feel bad for them. Once you humble a couple of them, then their mindset changes to "you're a cheater".

16 minutes ago, Ahab said:

   Necromancy is a very smelly hobby... but has its uses. That is a hobby I try to keep to the outdoors.

  I always have lots of popcorn... but people that know me do not often offer to buy my beer... it can make for an expensive night for them. But... I appreciate the offer... I rarely throw parties though... my friends always find the most inventive places to stash their empties.

That's why I have a never ending source of potpourri.

As far as parties, I'm the guy that typically brings the alcohol. Could that possibly be why I have so many invites? 😎

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7 minutes ago, Fair Play said:

That's why I have a never ending source of potpourri.

As far as parties, I'm the guy that typically brings the alcohol. Could that possibly be why I have so many invites? 😎

   I find that certain types of incense work well. Satya sai baba neg champa works the best to cover up pretty much anything.

   That could indeed be why you have so many invites... could also have something to do with you actually being a good person. The reason I have so few people volunteering to buy my beer for the night is simply the amount I can drink in one night... which some of my friends refer to as "enough beer to kill an elephant".

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Am I the only person who thinks these "bully" groups are useful in that the counselors can be killed much quicker than if they were spread out across the map?

I'll often bait the counselors into taking a swing and dodge their attack by making Jason do a little 360 then countering with a melee attack of my own or a grab. This method isn't 100% effective but with practice and proper timing it will often make the counselors rethink their offensive approach. 

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3 hours ago, Drop.Dead.Cynical said:

Am I the only person who thinks these "bully" groups are useful in that the counselors can be killed much quicker than if they were spread out across the map?

I'll often bait the counselors into taking a swing and dodge their attack by making Jason do a little 360 then countering with a melee attack of my own or a grab. This method isn't 100% effective but with practice and proper timing it will often make the counselors rethink their offensive approach. 

I won't say you are the only one. I've read of others who feel similar to you on that matter.

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