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Jason - Human or Zombie?

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Jason Voorhees - Always a zombie? or Never drowned, survived in the woods, and didn't die until the Final Chapter? 

 

This is one of the most heavily debated topics amongst Friday the 13th fans so why not bring that discussion here! 

 

Let me start off by saying this debate is spawned by several story inconstancies and logic errors that have built up over the years. In a way, there are no wrong answers here because gaps in logic support either arguments, but what I am interested in is what do you believe and why. 

 

Let's go over the basics: 

 

In part 1, Jason is written to be dead and according to Victor Miller there is no way around it. However, as great a job Victor did, he had not say or input in to sequels that followed.

 

It was Steve Miner who came up with the notion that Jason never drowned and survived in the woods and followed that idea in parts 2 & 3.

 

The Final Chapter also seems to follow the 'human' line of thinking, but it certainly rides the line on what Jason is. There is a dramatic change in his skin tone which could be confused for a corpse and in the opening Jason doesn't have any vital signs. 

 

In direct opposition to Miner's theory, films like Jason Lives, Jason Takes Manhattan, and Freddy vs. Jason treat the canon as if Jason had always drowned. Tommy has to 'return Jason to his original resting place,' Rennie sees Jason in the lake during swimming lessons, and Freddy uses the event of drowning against Jason in the dream world while Lori watches on. 

 

The big question here is, if that if Jason died as a boy, then why isn't he still a boy? The notion of body regeneration in Jason X could be used to support his growth, but it's not an easy sell. It is no question that Jason is a fully grown adult, so how did he get that way? Would it be just another case of ignorance is bliss? He's big because that's what the story wanted? 

 

In the remake, Platinum Dunes did say Jason is being treated as a flesh and blood human.  The interesting detail to pay attention to in the remake is that Jason appears as a little boy just after his mother is killed. In the original, over 20 years had passed between his drowning and the first long night at camp blood. By that account, Jason would have been 32. 

 

That detail is something worth noting. By shortening the time between Jason's death and Pamela's massive killing spree, it lends one to believe that Pamela's killing spree seems to be a direct reaction to his death and possibly took the place of the Barry and Claudette killings. In this timeline, Jason is still a boy and it is easier to devise reasons as to why he was never found. Then again, Jason does survive a 4 foot machete being shoved lengthwise through his torso.  

 

So what do you think? 

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I think its still just a movie franchise, a work of fiction and shouldnt be to overanalyzed, specially with canon being handled so losely as with Friday the 13th. :)

which basically means that i dont really care what he is as long as they keep making movies where i see a guy in a hockeymask kill teenagers and such haha

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I think its still just a movie franchise, a work of fiction and shouldnt be to overanalyzed, specially with canon being handled so losely as with Friday the 13th. :)

 

which basically means that i dont really care what he is as long as they keep making movies where i see a guy in a hockeymask kill teenagers and such haha

 

Well that thinking certainly saves you a world of headaches.

 

I would have to say that in the next film I would rather see a simple zombie version of Jason than a story about how he got the way he is and why. At this point it is not really needed in the world of film, but I wonder if the TV show is going to dig into this subject a little more. 

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Okay really hate to bring this up because I F@#KING HATE THIS MOVIE but.... In Jason goes to hell it heavily implied that Pamela Voorhees used The Necronomicon Ex Mortis from Evil Dead to resurrect Jason and we all know that book can do some seriously freakie shit so it's not beyond the realm of possibility for the book to turn him into the man monster we all know and love

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What if Jason has regenerative abilities?  In the case of a drowning (followed by a quick extraction from the water) or an ax to the head, he can appear dead but eventually heals enough to come back to life.  Kinda like a not-as-smart-and-charismatic Wolverine.  In the case of a massive machete hacking or being held drowned at the bottom of the lake, he needs a little extra help to restart his system.  So in Parts 1-8, he'd be human.  I can't even try to explain his Aliens-like snake form or Cyber Jason form in Parts 9 & 10...

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I think its still just a movie franchise, a work of fiction and shouldnt be to overanalyzed, specially with canon being handled so losely as with Friday the 13th. :)

 

which basically means that i dont really care what he is as long as they keep making movies where i see a guy in a hockeymask kill teenagers and such haha

 

Yeah this is pretty much how I feel. But I definitely prefer the zombie Jason (Part 7). 

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Okay really hate to bring this up because I F@#KING HATE THIS MOVIE but.... In Jason goes to hell it heavily implied that Pamela Voorhees used The Necronomicon Ex Mortis from Evil Dead to resurrect Jason and we all know that book can do some seriously freakie shit so it's not beyond the realm of possibility for the book to turn him into the man monster we all know and love

 

This was the focus of Freddy vs Jason vs Ash as well. Freddy wanted to get ahold of the Necronomicon to unleash the dream world into reality and had to go through Ash to get it. Even though the Necronomicon is the focus of the Evil Dead series, it's actually a reference from the works of H.P. Lovecraft. 

 

Essentially, the book is public domain and the use of it in other works was actually supported by Lovecraft. For Friday to make more use of that mythology is not a bad angle and offers a lot in terms of story potential. Tommy uses books of the occult in part 6 and this series really could use another Jason Lives type entry to inject some energy to the franchise. 

 

frank.gif

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totally agree to this.

 

the way the Necronomicon is shown in Ash vs Evil Dead is a pretty good example i think, the fact that the deadites are not the only thing the book can summon i mean. different spells do summon different things. one might have turned this little poor drowned kid into an eternal killing machine

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totally agree to this.

 

the way the Necronomicon is shown in Ash vs Evil Dead is a pretty good example i think, the fact that the deadites are not the only thing the book can summon i mean. different spells do summon different things. one might have turned this little poor drowned kid into an eternal killing machine

 

If the producers want to 'crossover' with new horror fans, this just might be the way to do it. It certainly opens the door up to a larger universe. 

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If the producers want to 'crossover' with new horror fans, this just might be the way to do it. It certainly opens the door up to a larger universe. 

 

 

agreed id love to see this happen.

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So, I've had this rolling around in my head for a while and finally committed it to paper... Word...

 

Anyway, I've put spoilers on it to cut down on the wall of text, but it's only REALLY chunky during the events after Friday the 13th.

 

Prelude to Friday the 13th

 

 

1946 - Elias Voorhees abandons Pamela and Jason Voorhees, due to Pamela's distaste for his continued obsession with the occult.

 

1957 - Elias Voorhees hears about the drowning of his son, Jason, and begins the hunt for the Necronomicon.

 

1958 - Pamela Voorhees murdered 2 camp counselors at Camp Crystal Lake.

 

Elias Voorhees returns to the abandoned Camp Crystal Lake with the Necronomicon and tries to summon Jason from the dead, but it does not appear to work. Elias builds a shack a few miles near the Camp, while he studies the Necronomicon. He would mostly hunt for food, but drive near local stores to steal food and supplies when he could during this time.

 

Meanwhile, Jason is resurrected, but bound to the lake. He begins pulling under people who can't swim. They have no account of there being a boy in the lake, pulling at them, rousing no suspicion from Elias.

 

 

 

 

After the events of Friday the 13th

 

 

1980 - Enraged at his mother's death, Jason is able to breach out of the water and grab Alice, but he was not strong enough to drown her. Elias hears of the news of Pamela's death and Alice's accounts of Jason. Elias dives into the dark waters of Crystal Lake to pull Jason out. He noticed that Jason is an adult and not the boy from Alice's accounts. He believes that the Necronomicon made Jason appear to her as the boy he was when he drowned.

 

Elias takes Jason back to the shack with him. Wanting to complete his family, Elias breaks into the local morgue, but could only retrieve Pamela’s head and sweater. He figures that this could be enough, now that he’s managed to bring back Jason. If he can bring her back, too, he hopes that she will use the Necronomicon to make him invulnerable, maybe even immortal, just as he’s done for Jason. He comes back to find that Jason is missing. He goes out looking for him and brings him back. He provides a shrine of Pamela for Jason, in hopes that he will stay with her, while he’s out. At least for a few hours.

 

Not being able to leave Jason with the Necronomicon while he sleeps, or goes out hunting, or for supplies, Elias periodically returns to the now abandoned Voohees household, where he would continue his studies of the book, never leaving Jason for too long, though. A few months pass and unbeknown to Elias, Jason sneaks into the trunk of Elias’ car, taking Pamela’s head with him, while he’s off to get supplies. Jason gets out of the trunk, while Elias has to trek the rest of the way to the store, to avoid the car being identified. Jason sticks to the bushes and shadows of the small residential area they’re parked in and notices Alice in the window of her apartment. He hears a voice coming from his mother’s head “Ki-ki-ki Ma-ma-ma.” He sneaks into her apartment for revenge, silently moving around her apartment, until he spots an opportunity to put his mother’s head in her fridge, so that Alice can see Pamela’s face one last time, before he kills her.

 

Elias soon hears about Alice’s death and decides to give Jason a potato sack to wear to obscure his identity and begins to take Jason out to learn how to hunt and set traps for animals and live off the land, because it gets Jason out of the shack more, he isn't left alone all the time, and so that Jason can learn to fend for himself.

 

Elias is also feeling his age catch up to him.

 


 

1982 - Elias is at the Voorhees house and thinks he has made a breakthrough with resurrecting his wife. He is gone longer than usual and Jason becomes anxious. He went wondering to find his father and comes across Chris Higgins. He attacks her and takes her back to the cabin. Elias returns to find her unconscious body. He scolds Jason, but he sees that Chris' body might be helpful in resurrecting his wife, but he doesn’t have the resources to keep Chris at the shack while he figures out the rest of this breakthrough, and Jason won't let him touch Pamela's shrine.

 

Elias puts Chris's body into the trunk of the car and starts to drive back to the Voorhees house. He is pulled over by a police officer. The officer tells him that his car matches the description of a vehicle that's been sited near some of the stores that have been robbed over the last couple of months. The officer asks to see what's in the trunk.

 

Elias begrudgingly tells the officer that the trunk is unlocked. As the officer opens up the trunk, he finds Chris' unconscious body and that's when Elias slams on the accelerator. The officer quickly grabs Chris, as the wheels are still spinning on the old dirt road and Elias does a 180 to try head back to Crystal Lake.

 

The officer fires a few shots off and one enters through the back window of the car and wounds Elias. He continues to drive and pulls up a mile down from the turn-off back to Camp Crystal Lake. He gets out of his car and hobbles the rest of the way back to the shack. The officer recognises Chris and drives her back to her parent's house.

 

Elias returns to the shack and Jason is in hysterics at the sight of his father bleeding out. Elias doesn't have anywhere to turn to, to get patched up. He knows that he's bleeding to death. Elias laments at his foiled attempts at trying to bring back Pamela and for the uncertain future of his son, Jason. He calls Jason closer to him "I'm sorry, but I won't be able to bring back your mother. I wanted to bring you both back, so that we could be a family again. I need to tell you are also gifted with a curse, Jason. Your body should be resilient to damage and it heals over time. You are practically immortal, as long as you don't take too much damage at once. I need you to use your gift to survive and be strong for me and fend for yourself, Jason. Do those things that I taught you and you should be fine. No one should come around here, no more. The lake has too much history and this shack should be out of the way enough. But there are be men coming for me right now, Jason. I need you to take me back to my car, so that the men don't keep looking for me and find you."

 

Jason picks up his father and carries him out. Elias uses his remaining strength to point the way for Jason back to the car. He directs Jason to put him into the driver’s seat and close the door. Elias looks to Jason and says “I’m sorry I wasn’t always there for you, Jason. I only wanted us to be together, forever, but my obsession with the occult drove us apart. I only hope that I’ll will see your mother on the other si…”

 

Elias dies in the car and Jason begins to weep. He hears the sirens of the police cars in the distance and is scared back into the woods.

 

Jason arrives back at the shack and sits across from his mother’s shrine. He stares at her head, tears still streaming down his face.

 

These would be his last. He begins to hear it again. “Ki-ki-ki Ma-ma-ma.”

 

 

 

After the events of Friday the 13th Parts 2-4

 

 

1984 – Jason’s rampage begins, but ends on Friday the 13th. After his burial, his soul returns to Forest Green, waiting for a weak swimmer.

 

 

 

Prelude to Jason Lives

 

 

1987 - Hello, Rennie!



EDIT: TL; DR - Drowned. Daddy brought him back with the Necronomicon. Jason is gifted/cursed with being almost invincible. Other things happened to try tie in the continuity (disregarding the remake, though I liked the tunnels). Daddy dies. Jason begins his rampage.

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IMO, Jason was human from Friday the 13th part 2 till Friday the 13th Part 4.  After he died and came back to life via lightening I'd almost say he's a zombie...but that wouldn't make sense based on the zombie test.  Therefore, I'm comfortable labelling him as a lesser demon of hell.  Freddy is a higher demon based on his dream powers and storylines.  My proof of this is the comment Freddy says in Jason Vs. Freddy.  "I had to search the bowels of Hell, but I found someone...".   But that's just my view and based on the internet I know I'm in the minority.  ha ha ha.  

http://mysticinvestigations.com/paranormal/jason-voorhees/

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Human, Zombie, I think he really is his own category.  He's too smart to be a zombie, hell, He's smarter than most the humans in the movies.  But that whole dying thing, kinda rules him out of the human category.  So, he's Jason nuff said.

I view all the films as stand alones.  Trying to make sense out of something so nonsensical gives me a headache, so I just sit back and enjoy.

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Human, Zombie, I think he really is his own category.  He's too smart to be a zombie, hell, He's smarter than most the humans in the movies.  But that whole dying thing, kinda rules him out of the human category.  So, he's Jason nuff said.

I view all the films as stand alones.  Trying to make sense out of something so nonsensical gives me a headache, so I just sit back and enjoy.

 

Sure, Jason Goes to Hell, Jason X, Freddy vs. Jason, and F13th 2009 could all be considered stand alone films. However, it's really tough to call every installment a stand alone film when, at least, 2 - 8 are directly connected to it's predecessor. 

 

Parts 2-4 happen over the same weekend. The Final Chapter, A New Beginning, and Jason Lives follow Tommy Jarvis. The New Blood starts of with a great recap of the entire sires and features a Jason with accurate damage. Part 8 picks up where 7 leaves off. 

 

 

 The term zombie is a general term, but you may be right. He's not searching for brains, nor is he a mindless being. I guess I should have used the term, UNDEAD, in it's place. The quest is though, was he a human first before becoming an undead killing machine. 

 

In the first 3 films he appears in, he very much senses and reacts to pain. He can be hurt and slowed down. Remember when Ginny kicked him in the balls? lol

 

 

After being resurrected by Tommy in Jason Lives, nothing seems to even phase him. He does get kicked in the balls again in JGTH, JX, and FvJ and it doesn't seem to phase him in the same way. ;)

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My two cents...2-4 he was human...most certainly deformed in someway to prevent any major or organ damage through machete hacks, axe wounds or hanging....Part 6 I have always thought of him as more of a Frankenstein monster, decaying and taking damage from that point on. The only part of his brain left serves his primal urge to hunt, kill and eat! Probably had forgotten why he is killing in the first place....thoughts?

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Someone already said this but Jason is just a demon. If he was a zombie he would eat his victims for sustenance. He does not so that rules out zombie. He takes so many devastating hits which would kill a human so my vote is something right from hell.

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Someone already said this but Jason is just a demon. If he was a zombie he would eat his victims for sustenance. He does not so that rules out zombie. He takes so many devastating hits which would kill a human so my vote is something right from hell.

 

Not to mention, Jason Goes To Hell,  look at his form when he crawled between the legs of a Voorhees woman in order to regain his form. If that wasn't a demon. Im not sure what it was. 

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Someone already said this but Jason is just a demon. If he was a zombie he would eat his victims for sustenance. He does not so that rules out zombie. He takes so many devastating hits which would kill a human so my vote is something right from hell.

That was me!  Before people jump down my throat, I thought he was a demon from hell way before Jason goes to Hell came out with it.  :)

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Not to mention, Jason Goes To Hell, look at his form when he crawled between the legs of a Voorhees woman in order to regain his form. If that wasn't a demon. Im not sure what it was.

Lol valid point. I try to forget that movie to be honest. Not that it was "bad" but it definitely did not feel like a F13 movie to me.

 

That was me! Before people jump down my throat, I thought he was a demon from hell way before Jason goes to Hell came out with it. :)

Well clearly others had the same thought process because in that film they also thought he was a demon :P

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The Part VI lightning storm always felt supernatural to me, not some unfortunate accident. By that point there's definitely...something taking an interest in Jason, a higher power. The energy gives his regeneration power a huge boost, enough to get him from dusty corpse to undead but physically capable body in quick time.

 

I do think he's human, alive, up to the ending of Part IV, but always had the metahuman ability to recover and heal from injury. Maybe not as much as when he was resurrected in Part VI but he'd have to, to be able to operate on a motor function level from the ending to Part II alone.

 

By the end of Part IV, yeah, dead. Too much damage in too short a period of time (isn't II-III-IV over the space of about one week?) for him to recover, and he's already lagging behind with that by the start of IV judging by the skin deterioration and loss of pain sense.

 

As for whether he drowned and was brought back to actual life now with this regen power as a side effect, or survived the drowning thanks to always having it and hid away in the woods? I don't know, both are good arguments and I don't mind the ambiguity. Bearing JGTH in mind, perhaps the former seems the most reasonable overall, though I know some people prefer to not count the Paramound films!

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    I agree with the supernatural thing . I have always wanted Friday the 13th to take the franchise in that kind of direction . Friday the 13th is suppose to be an unlucky day , so unlucky things happen .

 

    Examples being in part 3 Bikers drain gas and Van runs out of gas  ... really that was enough ... the I need to switch tanks , but the plank broke took it one step it didn't have to go . Part  6  the lightning strike / regeneration ... what are the odds that happens and just seconds later Jason is covered in gas or kerosene , whatever and he is going to burn ... all it takes is a match , but here comes the rainstorm . 

 

    Now maybe those were all though out exactly the way I was thinking , with a " bad luck " factor , so I can't say they have never done something like that . For myself though , I think it would give a script that little bit of a push it needed to breathe a bit of life into it . I mean they don't have to come off as goofy ,  but say that Joey pulls up in his car and it sounds like something is rattling , so he and Bill decide to take a look at it , okay they start working on the car , now it does not get finished or put back together , because they are going to run into town and get the parts tomorrow . Now with just that bit of totally believable script , I have disable one of the escape vehicles .

 

    Now the van running out of gas on the bridge was perfect . One the bridge was to small for any other vehicle to fit by and 2 it was heavy enough to be a real pain to move out of the way so one of the other cars could not be used to get away . 

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