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1 hour ago, Cer1alkill3r said:

Hmmmm?whatever happened to “not even a rock” you really confuse your fan base when you say stuff like this. Don’t get me wrong I’m grateful but why did you change your mind? You were so cut and dry on the topic of nothing new at all. and now your saying there is a chance. Just keep pulling in those heart strings. 

This is game balance and not new content. 

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5 hours ago, wes said:

Hey Campers!

Since we are not allowed to add new content, we are focusing our attention on what we already have, and how we can make it better. With that in mind, let’s talk about our Perk system. It’s too grindy. You know it. We know it. It should be smarter and follow a player’s progression in the game. What we are proposing is that when you spend your hard earned CP to roll a perk, the system checks your current level, and then rolls perks that reflect your level. This way, higher level players should see a significantly higher percentage of rolling Epic and Legendary perks compared to the current system. This should reduce the chances of higher level players rolling perks that aren’t indicative of their level. That makes sense, right?  Yes, but quick question anyway, are you still looking at other options or is following a players progression the route you want to take? 

To help wrap your head around this change, here’s a theoretical example. This is only to help explain our current thoughts, and will NOT be the exact change. 

When a player first starts out in the game, they’ll see perks around the Poor or Common tiers. As they progress into the 20s, they’ll see more Common and Uncommon perks. As players get to higher and higher levels, they’ll see the perk tiers that they roll becoming better and better, culminating with players typically rolling perks no worse than Rare, and with a better chance at Epic and Legendaries. As long as they still have a chance to roll high level perks, new players should be able to surprise Jason too.

So when can we expect this? We’ve got to finish designing it so it makes sense, then we’ve got to implement it. After that we’ll have a lot of testing that we need to do to ensure the new system is running smoothly and can’t be exploited. And then we need to get it through QA, and then through console certification. All of this takes time, so we ask for your patience. In the meantime, we’ll be continuing to roll out bug fixes and other Quality of Life improvements. Awesome, glad you took the time to add this paragraph.

But wait, there’s more. We’re aren’t happy with Legendary perks. We like that there’s a pro/con to Legendary perks, but we feel like some of the pros (on certain perks) don’t really feel like a “pro”. Or at least they don’t move the needle enough. So here’s where we open up the discussion to you: should all perks (Poor, Common, Uncommon, Rare, Epic, and Legendary) have a pro/con or just the Legendary perks? What perks do you think need a slight buff? What perks are overpowered? We’re here, and we’re listening. 

-W 
 

I’m going to have to get back to you on some of the questions in the last paragraph, I do like where your line of thinking is taking you though. The easy one on which perks are OP has been answered Medic, Thick Skin and maybe Hypochondriac. The suggested nerfs for Medic above are ok but to be honest I’d rather look at improving the system than nerfing it. As for Thick Skin and Hypochondriac, I think they play fine as long as they can’t be combined, so nerf them by making you choose between extra health or extra healing.  

Thanks for posting this here, and asking us. I really do appreciate it and will get back to you tomorrow.

PS. To the thread in general, looking forward to what you all suggest for buffs on the ‘useless’ Perks. 

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Maybe the best way to nerf perks, isn't to nerf any particular perk outright, but instead make it so that certain perks cannot become equipped alongside of another perk.  Take the perks like medkit and thick skin. One could argue they are both helping your hp, so wouldnt it be better if you could only equip one and not both?

I was playing as j6 for 5 matches and in that span of time playing, there was a venessa who intentially stepped in my traps and would heal immediately. Now i wouldnt mind that because i could easly morph over there and grab her. What made it worse was the fact that she would do it right in front of me. using the time spent that i was stunned to step in the trap, heal, and then stun/or get me to intentionally grab her to get a pocket knife in the neck to step and heal in a trap again. Jason unable to grab a foot in front of him made it all the much worse. Granted i did eventually get 8/8 in all those matches. The point i'm trying to make it is too easy to tank traps, and god forbid if your jason with only 3 traps, and they all get tanked in a span of a minute.

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6 hours ago, wes said:

Hey Campers!

Since we are not allowed to add new content, we are focusing our attention on what we already have, and how we can make it better. With that in mind, let’s talk about our Perk system. It’s too grindy. You know it. We know it. It should be smarter and follow a player’s progression in the game. What we are proposing is that when you spend your hard earned CP to roll a perk, the system checks your current level, and then rolls perks that reflect your level. This way, higher level players should see a significantly higher percentage of rolling Epic and Legendary perks compared to the current system. This should reduce the chances of higher level players rolling perks that aren’t indicative of their level. That makes sense, right? 

To help wrap your head around this change, here’s a theoretical example. This is only to help explain our current thoughts, and will NOT be the exact change. 

When a player first starts out in the game, they’ll see perks around the Poor or Common tiers. As they progress into the 20s, they’ll see more Common and Uncommon perks. As players get to higher and higher levels, they’ll see the perk tiers that they roll becoming better and better, culminating with players typically rolling perks no worse than Rare, and with a better chance at Epic and Legendaries.

So when can we expect this? We’ve got to finish designing it so it makes sense, then we’ve got to implement it. After that we’ll have a lot of testing that we need to do to ensure the new system is running smoothly and can’t be exploited. And then we need to get it through QA, and then through console certification. All of this takes time, so we ask for your patience. In the meantime, we’ll be continuing to roll out bug fixes and other Quality of Life improvements.

But wait, there’s more. We’re aren’t happy with Legendary perks. We like that there’s a pro/con to Legendary perks, but we feel like some of the pros (on certain perks) don’t really feel like a “pro”. Or at least they don’t move the needle enough. So here’s where we open up the discussion to you: should all perks (Poor, Common, Uncommon, Rare, Epic, and Legendary) have a pro/con or just the Legendary perks? What perks do you think need a slight buff? What perks are overpowered? We’re here, and we’re listening. 

-W 
 

This is amazing!

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awesome guys, but im more interested in balancing and bug fixes, when will this happen?, For example how easy that is to kill Jason, and even in rage mode he can get stunt every 5 seconds, or maybe some perks to Jason, when will this happen wes@ or @shiftysamurai 

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   We should have the room to keep all of the perks in the game and still roll for a few better perks before needing to make room to roll for more. I do like the idea of having a greater chance to roll better perks as you gain levels... it rewards those that stick around and continue to play.
    But I also think they should all have the chance for cons with them. As it is now, there is already a chance to have a 0% penalty on perks... I have many Epic perks with no penalty at all... and got them through rolling for more perks, finding doubles of what I had that were better... either through a slightly higher bonus or smaller to no penalty. I have also rolled legendary perks that are worse than my epics... the same bonus, but with a penalty on it while I had no penalty on my epic perk... the second bonus on the legendary perks is pretty small and does not come close to making up for this, leaving the epic as superior to the legendary. Perhaps any level of perk should be at least 1% above the best perk of the level bellow it... perhaps even more than 1%... depending on the perk.

     I am all for giving a bit of a nerf to medic... the aforementioned doubling the first med spray only. As it is used by so many players it just is too overpowered. There are plenty of med sprays already on the maps. It quickly becomes ridiculous when more than half the lobby is using it.
     Thick skin could perhaps use a slight nerf as well... seven hits with an axe should not be survivable by anyone. Combined with medic... as seems to be the norm for many... this takes the fear of Jason out of the users of these perks and they have no concern for their own well being. This could help put the fear of Jason back into many players.
     Sucker punch seems to be able to give 100% stun rate to a counselor's strike on many weapons... nothing should be 100%. I am not saying nerf the perk, but the stun chances of certain weapons for instance, but either way... no matter the stun chance of the weapon in use... it should never be more than 90% even with this perk (even if this just cancels out part of the bonus when using say... a bat)... 1 in 10 hits not causing a stun is nothing to cry about and gives the player a reason to crap their pants when their weapon didn't stun him and they get slashed or grabbed while about to start tea bagging.
     I think sucker punch should be meant to make other weapons more viable to stun Jason, not give a guaranteed stun with certain weapons.

    Too much buffing or nerfing to any perk can really throw balance out the window as it stands now... and for the most part, balance is pretty good... I hope this is also kept in mind.
    This is all I can come up with off the top of my head... I will be back after looking through the perks and thinking about it a bit... I cannot remember the names of quite a few of them at the moment due to not looking for a while... I have been sticking with my no fear build for a long time now.


   But first, as I read through all of this up to here already... just a couple thoughts on some other ideas...
    @Daimyo Heligo With the percentage bonus it will help out higher luck counselors far more than low luck counselors. 10 luck will get the most out of this perk. It seems rather useless for low luck counselors as 20% more strikes of 2 possible strikes is still less than 1 extra, where at ten strikes, it is two extra. Any buff to this will make the Chad's weapons nigh indestructible... and he gets enough strikes without it. The low luck counselors were not necessarily meant to stand to toe to with Jason for extended periods of time.
    The same can be said about marathon... any % bonus is always going to give a larger bonus to those who had more to start with. This is just how percentages work.

    @xllxENIGMAxllx Giving pyro users a free flare gun could bring way to many weapons into a match one more. Remember, if you shoot it into the air and Jason is around he will still show up on your mini map, even if he is in stalk.... No one bothers with this, but I tried it a while back and it still worked then. 
    If this were to give a free flare gun, the perhaps each perk of this nature used in a match should remove a flare gun from the match... and if more perks are used than flare guns already on the map, another random weapon should be removed for each. I don't think a flare gun does as much damage to Jason as a shotgun... but this harkens back to the days when the camp was equipped for war by the NRA... If you remember that, and play Jason at all... you would not be requesting this one.

    I don't want to make this too long, so I will stop here... for now.
     


     
    

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"Easy listening" is just a pointless perk all together. If I want to regain stamina quicker I have to stand next to likely the only radio on the entire map, turn it on and send out a signal that alerts Jason to my exact whereabouts?!? What's the plan, try and cabin loop him in that one tiny area for the rest of the game and hope he doesn't at any point smash the radio? 

I also think any repair based perks shouldn't make the quick time wheel move faster, rather they should increase the size of the targets, making it slightly easier for a "dumber" counselor to repair an objective. The slight increase of speed for smart characters like Deb, Eric and Tommy wasn't all that helpful anyways (imo).

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You could make the perks work more like a Gatcha Game. Like if you roll the same epic perk you can fuse it with the other to get a higher Reroll on a part of the perk. Like if I had 14% 2% level headed and got another one 13% 5% I fuse it into the better perk and get a 15% 1% level headed. Of course you could also Reroll and get 14% 2% again, but it won't roll down to a lower level. For Legendary perks maybe you can choose a Reroll or simply a +1 to the bonus stat. I def rolled 7+ Legendary Firecracker perks all worse than the first one I got. I also used like every perk in the game at least once before. I would appreciate better perks as a high level but it would suck for new players to only roll common perks. 

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I'm excited for that perk system.. I just got a legendary perk that is worst than a epic one. Like, doesn't make sense... 

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11 hours ago, ConnectTheKings said:

This is my hardcore mode setup and I think some of the rules put in place helped re balance the game, especially the ones pertaining to Jenny, and Tommy. Here it is for FULL reference, obviously this is half RP and half Hardcore, but I've gone through and highlighted KEY parts of the gamemode which would help balance public matches and add tension and creativity to both counselor and Jason gameplay! ? @wes

#1: MUSIC IS TO BE TURNED OFF
#2: Players must fully immerse themselves as if the game is REAL this means:
NO INFINATE / LONG SPRINTS
NO PICKING UP ITEMS FOR NO REASON
PLAYERS DO NOT KNOW JASONS POWERS
PLAYERS CANNOT FIGHT JASON UNLESS THEY HAVE TOO
COUNSELORS ARE TO PLAY THEIR (ROLE)


    #3 The only counselors allowed to repair the car are TOMMY and ADAM
    #4: ABSOLUTELY NO ONE IS TO REPAIR THE PHONE LINE EXCEPT LACHAPPA & DEBORAH.
    5: Tommy is a "LEADER" character meaning:
    Tommy must try and convince counselors they are in danger. if the counselor/s haven't seen a dead body or jason himself they are tro reguard tommy as CRAZY.
    Tommy is allowed to shoot jason but must play realistic and is not allowed to sprint more then 10 seconds at at time
    Tommy MUST get Jasons mask off before attempting to grab the sweater with a hero girl
    #6: "THE EVIL POSSESSION"
    In the game 1 person will be randomly selected as a "helper for jason"
    the helpers rules are as follows:
    Helpers must try and convince counselors to go off and do something that will put them in harms way.
    Helpers MUST act as a normal character and CANNOT break RP
    If the counselor manages to be WITH a counselor when jason attacks he MUSTR act accordingly (high rates of fear, no standing around, and trying to help out with escaping)
    The helper CAN BE KILLED BY JASON IF THE JASON DECIDES TOO
    Helpers are allowed to "kite" players but cannot block, stop, or prevent players from defending themselves (this would break RP)
    Helpers will communicate with jason through a discord chat
    #7: "CALLING TOMMY":
    A player is only allowed to call Tommy if these requirements have been met:
    1) THE PLAYER HAS SEEN JASON
    2) THE PLAYER HAS STUMBLED UPON THE RADIO
    3) THE PLAYER KNOWS HOW TO WORK THE RADIO
    4) PLAYERS WHO CAN WORK THE RADIO ARE AS FOLLOWS: Jenny, Kenny, Adam, lachappa, and deborah


    #8: Only players such as Chad, Buggzy, and Adam may attack jason outright  if given the opportunity, and it makes sense to do so, and only 1 stun is allowed every 1:30 seconds. If you are playing as a "hero" girl you may stun jason every 2 minutes. stuns are only allowed if you ACTIVELY being hunted.
    #9: When being chased, counselors are not allowed to "loop" or "daisey chain" Jason. Think about it like this: Say jason is chasing you and you are inside and he breaks down the door to the room. You cannot jump or crawl out the window and then crawl back in as his disappears to either shift or morph away, no normal human being would know what was going on in that situation. so if you make the choice to leave the cabin, IT'S PERMANENT. you must either: A) outrun him like a normal person would (no zig zaging or daisey chaining)

    OR
   B) Run around and try and find a good hiding place to lose him.

    #10: "THE FINAL GIRL" (hero girls)
    1) Hero girls or final girls by order of "worthyness":
    {1} Jenny Meyers
    {2} Vanessa
    {3} AJ
    {4} Victoria
    2) hero girls are allowed to "team up" with Tommy once the previous steps for his arrival have been met, BUT THEY CANNOT ACTIVELY SEEK HIM OUT UNLESS:
    {1} They have a walkie and can communicate with him
    {2} they have met him and have SEEN JASON
    {3} OR they have seen a dead body
    3) IF both the hero girl and tommy are together and manage to find a group of counselors, they have a greater chance of having those counselors band together to stop jason (players decide if their evidence is enough to warrent a jason HUNT)
    3A) if tommy has the mask that increases the rest of the counselors belief
    3B) if the hero girl is wearing the vorhees sweater that increases counselors belief
    4) if the two of them have both, and other counselors have seen jason the chance for a jason hunter increases EXPONENTIALLY.
    5) Hero girls may sprint for a total of 20 seconds at a time
    #11: "the smarty pants"
    1) "smarty pants" counselors include Deborah and Lachappa.
    2) Smarty Pants counselors are the ONLY ONES who may repair the phone box and POWER OUTLETS.

    3) Smarty pants counselors are only allow to sprint for a total of 5 seconds and for intervalls equating to 20 seconds.
    3a) (intervals) intervals means you may sprint for 5 seconds, slow to a jog, and repeat. it breaks down to 5-on 5-off. sprint for 5 seconds, then jog for 5, and so on an so forth. after the 20 seconds is up you must wait 10 seconds to start a new "interval"
    4) smarty pants CANNOT face jason alone and that means they cannot fight him UNLESS they are with others in a jason hunt, and may only attack every 3 minutes.
    5) smarty pants counselors are allowed to grab walkies at ANY point in the match for any reason.
    6) smarty pants counselors may grab a pocket knife at any point in the match for any reason.
    7) smarty pants counselors may HAND OFF THEIR KNIVES to another counselor at any point during the match, HOWEVER the person who receives the knife CANNOT give it to anyone else.
   ? smarty pants counselors CANNOT DRIVE ANY VEHICLE.
    9) smarty pants counselors are often made fun of and LEFT TO DIE by *MOST* counselors if SH*T hits the fan.
    10) the only counselors allowed to be "buddies" with, or "Protect" the smarty pants are Tommy Jarvis, and Jenny Meyers. (has helped cut down on "puppy guarding" the phone box)
    #12: "The Bois"
    1) "The Bois" are as follows: Kenny, Chad, Buggzy, and Adam.
    2) "The Bois" are allowed to team up at any point in the match and work towards an objective, wether that be attacking Jason, helping repair power, helping repair the car, or finding the shack with the hero girl and Tommy.
    3) The bois cannot bodyguard the smarty pants while they fix the phone box, as previously mentioned only tommy and jenny can.
    4) The bois can share supplies, weapons, and medical between eachother
    5) the bois are allowed to sprint for 15 seconds at a time and with intervals of 15 seconds.
    #13: "Normies"
    1) "Normies" are the following counselors: Tiffany, Sheldon, Fox, and Mitch.
    2) Normies CANNOT perform objectives and can only help by distraction, and occasionally beating on jason.
    3) Normies can stun jason every 1:30 and can only do so with others in a group. if they are all alone they can only stun jason a total 2 times before "giving up" and either dropping their weapon or keeping it for later if it isn't broken.
    4) If the normie is alone they can only stun jason every 2 minutes.
    5) normies can grab maps and firecrackers but cannot pick up walkies or pocket knives.
    #14: "THE HEALER"
    1) The "Healer" counselors include, jenny, Tommy, and deborah.
    2) Healers may pick up med spray at any point and can safely store them for trouble.
    3) healers can only heal players who are BADLY INJURED and are limping. (obviously multiplayer doesn't have roles ( {I.E. HEALERS} but this rule would help jason ALOT)
    4) healers may GIVE someone a med spray but ONLY if they are on a Jason hunt and the player who picks it up cannot pass it to someone else.
    5) healers can use any medspray related perk and it can be of ANY rank.
    #15: JASON!
    1) Jason if to play strategically and thoughtfully, NO BARGING IN WHEN COUNSELORS ARE AT the "PARTY" LOCATION.
    2) Jason is allowed to stalk any player for any period of time BUT cannot kill unless that player is by themselves or with 1 other player.
    3) Jason is allowed to communicate with his helper at any point and MUST RP as Jason when the helper is around. that means if the helper is with a potential victim, he is also a potential victim.
    4) if Jason is seen by a counselor but they haven't made it back to a group yet, he can either play it off and back off and hope the others don't believe that counselor when they get back, OR he can try and snatch them before anyone sees.
    5) Jason CANNOT speed up the stun time once he is either hit or shot by a shotgun. (I think a temporary period of time after the jason player has been stunned where he is "invincible" can help the game ALOT)
    6) Jason is "invisible" when he becomes (REASONABLY) far away and only a small tiny portion of him is visible to a counselor in the woods. (think like you wouldn't notice his hand coming out from a tree trunk if you 500 feet away etc etc.)
    7) jason is allowed to speed up the sweater stun as if it were a normal game.
   ? Jason players cannot trap the shack, however they can trap ANYTHING ELSE.
    9) Jason is allowed to slash all he wants if he is being hunted.
    10) STEALTH IS KEY UNLESS YOU'VE BEEN SPOTTED BY LITERALLY EVERYONE AT ONCE.
    (NOTES):


    There will always be a central "PARTY" location where counselors will try and meet up at the beginning of the game. (I.E) Higgins Haven, Packanack Lodge, Log cabin in jarvis map, etc etc...

    The counselors are to NORMALLY WALK to the location or jog when they "feel like it" (NO INFINITE JOG YOU ARE TRAINING FOR A DAMN MARATHON)
    counselors can stop by cabins on their way to the party or choose to head directly there, either way act NATURAL. if you pick something up, WHY DID YOU? WHAT WAS THE REASON? (I.E. "oh hey look I found some firecrackers kenny! these will be AWESOME at the party!")
    After the "party" has started counselors can either choose to play games, sneak off for sex, go get some missing items, or any normal reason to LEAVE.
    once the players have left and been gone a LONG WHILE when they said they'd be back some counselors can mention this and start to worry, TIME MATTERS.

(THIS SHOULD BE HOW THE GAME LOOKS IN THE FIRST PLACE, IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE LATE NIGHT!)   

 *GAMMA SET TO 1.73 or 1.75*
*depending on monitor you may need to mess with gamma but it should be JUST bright enough to see 15-20 feet ahead of you on the road with your flashlight off*

post-3810-0-68347200-1491405597_thumb.png

~THE END~

In my personal opinion, almost none of these changes would make the game more fun, for hardcore or public matches (they might in an RP setting however).

Forcing specific roles onto characters and onto players, would create an even smaller community of players. At the minute whenever someone new plays for the first few matches they complain Jason is OP, they can choose the character, roll perks but still cant play well. If you force selection on them (this character has already been chosen) there is more things for them (all characters) to learn which creates a mountain of a learning curve. I’m going to guess you would make it only one character per map so you wouldn’t have a fleet of Chads coming over the hill. People already leave the game whenever they don’t get to be Jason I’m sure if they didn’t get to play as their preferred character they would leave also. 

You mention that a player (in an RP) setting could help Jason but Jason could kill if wanted, we already have these in multiplayer and it ruins the game entirely. They are teamers and deserve a place on the pedestal next to old Ma Voorhees herself.

Im gonna go out on a limb here, if New content is a no go then honestly I’m pretty happy with the game. It’s fun, the objectives are clear and it’s set out in a way that makes sense. Every character is different and has their own special skills, every character can escape, every character can fight back, every character can repair which is fair. Counsellors can run away from Jason but some are fitter and some are faster, some are neither and some are both. Apart from these, it then relies on luck of drops, skills of counsellors and the skill of Jason.

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My least favourite thing in the game is the roll perk system. 

So any improvement and work on that gets a big thumbs up. 

I personally would like to see the system speed up, it's a bit monotonous. 

For example when you roll, ask if sell or keep straight away, as it is you roll then  search it out in the perk menu to then have to select then delete. It's boring as hell. 

 

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14 hours ago, Cer1alkill3r said:

Hmmmm?whatever happened to “not even a rock” you really confuse your fan base when you say stuff like this. Don’t get me wrong I’m grateful but why did you change your mind? You were so cut and dry on the topic of nothing new at all. and now your saying there is a chance. Just keep pulling in those heart strings. 

You missed the concept of differentiating new content vs adjusting existing content metrics for the purposes of balance/tweak/maintenance. (Yes, there is a massive difference.)

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Tying it to player level would be a good idea as long as you don't make the level requirement too high. Maybe by around level 70 you start with the increased chance to roll epic/legendary perks.

A second idea you might consider is simply allowing people to pay cp to improve the current perks they have. As an example let's say I have a My Dad's A Cop with a 22% positive effect and a 3% negative effect. Trying to rolling a perfect set od stats for it would be daunting. However if you added an option to pay say 100 cp per percentage point to improve the perk it'd be alot easier. You could even cap it so the perk can't be improved past the rarity that was rolled. Meaning if you have a common version of a perk you can improve it past the common max stats.

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Would it be worth giving Grinder a possible 15% to to 30% for percentage boosts for CP/XP? Might be a really cool perk for someone who is grinding. Maybe even a 1.0x to 5.0x possible max as either another option, or an additional perk plus for a legendary.

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I think one of the biggest things is removing the crazy RNG on perk rolling. No one likes spending 100,000 cp just to get MAYBE one good new perk out of it and rolling tons of useless crap we already have.

Yes,  your new idea is meant to help that but the main issue is that you're only focusing on rarity and not the perks themselves.

It's not any better to spend 100,000 cp and keep rolling Epic and Legendary Quiet Swimmer and Easy Listening over and over.

The system should check what you have already and keep that in mind when rolling the perk. So if you already have Legendary Quiet Swimmer, the likelihood of you rolling that again is extremely low or non-existant.

Also, the perks themselves really need a full overhaul to focus on making them useful. Right now only maybe 10 at best are even viable and the rest are worthless because they're so ridiculously situational that you may only get a use out of them in 1 out of every 10 matches.

There's no reason to use them then over stuff like Thick Skin, Medic etc which are useful in every single match.

A better perk idea might be perks that enhance the stats of chars that have lower stats while not providing a bonus to chars with higher stats.

Like the Stamina perk should actually give a full point or two boost (aka turning a 2 stamina into 3 or 4) for chars with low stamina stats but not give any additional stats to someone like Buggzy or Vanessa who are already at cap.

This makes the perk very useful for players who like lower stamina chars but without making it broken by making already powerful chars like Vanessa even more powerful.

Perks that enhance stats or USEFUL mechanics that are used in most matches are the key. 

The situational perks aren't very useful unless they ALSO provide some other sub benefit that is useful in every match.

That's my two cents.

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Great idea @wes I'm with you on this! My input would be the pros and cons are fine up to legendary. But, legendary pros should bump it up by up to 5%. Say Thick skin is max at 20% for legendary, then add a chance of 21%-25%, cons stay the same. The legendary quality extra stats should be a bit higher, from 3%-5% and that would be good IMO. I love the idea of lvl indicating your perk quality, that makes sense and will really help all the high lvl players feel like they're not wasting CP on so many poor quality perks. Good stuff man!

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19 hours ago, wes said:

Hey Campers!

Since we are not allowed to add new content, we are focusing our attention on what we already have, and how we can make it better. With that in mind, let’s talk about our Perk system. It’s too grindy. You know it. We know it. It should be smarter and follow a player’s progression in the game. What we are proposing is that when you spend your hard earned CP to roll a perk, the system checks your current level, and then rolls perks that reflect your level. This way, higher level players should see a significantly higher percentage of rolling Epic and Legendary perks compared to the current system. This should reduce the chances of higher level players rolling perks that aren’t indicative of their level. That makes sense, right? 

To help wrap your head around this change, here’s a theoretical example. This is only to help explain our current thoughts, and will NOT be the exact change. 

When a player first starts out in the game, they’ll see perks around the Poor or Common tiers. As they progress into the 20s, they’ll see more Common and Uncommon perks. As players get to higher and higher levels, they’ll see the perk tiers that they roll becoming better and better, culminating with players typically rolling perks no worse than Rare, and with a better chance at Epic and Legendaries.

So when can we expect this? We’ve got to finish designing it so it makes sense, then we’ve got to implement it. After that we’ll have a lot of testing that we need to do to ensure the new system is running smoothly and can’t be exploited. And then we need to get it through QA, and then through console certification. All of this takes time, so we ask for your patience. In the meantime, we’ll be continuing to roll out bug fixes and other Quality of Life improvements.

But wait, there’s more. We’re aren’t happy with Legendary perks. We like that there’s a pro/con to Legendary perks, but we feel like some of the pros (on certain perks) don’t really feel like a “pro”. Or at least they don’t move the needle enough. So here’s where we open up the discussion to you: should all perks (Poor, Common, Uncommon, Rare, Epic, and Legendary) have a pro/con or just the Legendary perks? What perks do you think need a slight buff? What perks are overpowered? We’re here, and we’re listening. 

-W 
 

First off, thank you @wes.  I and a few others have been asking for exactly this.  While I would really like a total perk overhaul, I realize that the legal issues keep this from happening.  The increased chance for higher-level characters is a great Band-Aid in this case.

Rather than nerfing existing perks, I think the better idea would be to increase the effectiveness of some lesser-used perks, many of which are almost entirely worthless as they currently stand.

For example, "Easy Listening (?)" -- the one where stamina regeneration increases within a very small proximity of the radio if it is activated: I would like to see the proximity span across the map, and even stack with multiple radios.  This still wouldn't be a GREAT perk, because it has better alternatives and radios are too sparse, but this would at least make this perk VIABLE, which I think should be the goal here.  Yes, it's kinda silly to imagine that a counselor can hear a radio clear across the map, but it's also silly to think a counselor magically has thicker skin.

Another example, "Quiet Swimming:"  what if the swimmer became TOTALLY silent while swimming?  Yes, this would definitely be exploited, but at least it would, again, become VIABLE.

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1 hour ago, Christopher Newman said:

You missed the concept of differentiating new content vs adjusting existing content metrics for the purposes of balance/tweak/maintenance. (Yes, there is a massive difference.)

Not at all. 

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I would like to see some sort of buy system implemented. As someone else mentioned you could apply a level cap to each perk to each perk so the leveling system has more value once you reach anything past 140.

1. Get rid of the slot machine.

2. All perks are available at the start but have to be unlocked through CP. 

3. Once unlocked you get perks that always have a base positive and negative traits. These should be the same for each player. Example sucker punch common, gives you 5% stun chance with -10% stamina.  

4. Once unlocked you can invest CP into the perk to increase the positive modifier or decrease the negative modifier.  The positives have a cap appropriate to the tier where the negatives could always be reduced to zero.  

5. Each tier gives you a higher positive percentage to grow into.  The negatives always reset back to a negative modifier.  This way the player always has to grow and improve their skill.  This the player always feels like he's progressing, but doesn't benefit from a having a perk with no penalty. 

6. The cost to level up each perk increases with each tier rating. The cost to buy should be set so players can quickly unlock and level up. It should be easy to to level up all perks so they could potentially all be Powers up to common level around the mid level range when all councelors and Jason's are unlocked. This always all new payers to try out and get a feel or the perks

7. Once past mid level the cost to improve should increase where each decision is meaningful and when the player reaches the end of the tier cap only less than half of then perks should be fully upgraded.

8. When the player reaches EPIC they can pick the other positive trait to mix in. However not all perks can be mixed together, this is to avoid combinations where something is too OP'd. These secondary traits have a positive modifier of zero and limited growth potential (maybe not over 10%). They should also include the negative modifier that is always paired with  that has to be reduced to zero.  This way characters have to choose when to merge perks to avoid having too many negative modfiers equiped.

9. The perks should probably follow the current max percentage rules that we have today.  Or: no leadfoot should have a car start time at 75% or thick skin being maxed out at 20%.

10. The buy system also gives the vets something to do, I'm sure many are sitting on 500k in CP points by now. That should be taken into consideration, we shouldn't be able to immediately max out everything.  But also should be balanced so the game doesn't feel like a grind. I think by level 150 the player should have 4-5 rare perks that are ready for Epic modifcatons.  

Also existing perks need to be looked at and rethought. Others posted good suggestions regarding medical and swift attacker, I would love to see tinker perk get some rework. Although reducing or widening the skill checks are going to make for some OP combos if the faster characters equip them. 

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If you have a system that lets you see how many people equip which perks, now is the time to use it. If it isn't popular, there is probably a good reason why.
It may not be that Easy Listening is bad, it's just that Light Step is better (as an example).

Easy Way:

Keep perks more or less as they are. New perks are entirely random, all tend to spawn in at common but occasionally you get an uncommon or even rare. For a cost of 500/1000/1500/2000 CP, you can reroll a perk's percentages and increase it's rarity by one. That 4% common Thick Skin rerolls into a 7% uncommon Thick Skin for 500 CP. Next time it's 1000 CP to upgrade to a 13% rare. This offers progression and rewards play, but modifies things the least.

Middle Road:

Classify perks and treat them sort of like equipment. You can equip one perk each in these categories. You can make up the categories, but I'm thinking about things that more or less correspond to the counselor stats. So you could have three (or modify it, doesn't matter) perks, but they can't share a category unless they have a 6+ in that stat. So, anybody could run with Light Foot (Stealth), Tinker (Repair), and Marathon (Stamina), but you would need a high repair character to do Light Foot, Tinker, and Grease Monkey (Repair). This enforces some balance but lets specialists specialize.

Table Flip:

Get rid of all the perks and create a new level of base perks that are either percentage modifiers, like Reduce Fear 5% and Increase Stamina 3%, or item modifiers like Starts With Firecrackers. Each perk starts out really general, and when you pay CP to level it up (like Easy Way), you get a choice of how to upgrade it. Reduce Fear might upgrade to Reduce Fear 10% or Reduce Fear From Dead Bodies 25%. So one is specialized and one continues to be broadly applicable. Dead bodies might specialize into Lights Out or Seeing Jason, while 10% might become 15% or Reduce Fear 10%/Avoid Sense 10% and combine them. Since you can have multiple copies of perks, you can be evolving them into what you need for different counselors. My need for Nerves of Steel on Vanessa is so that I can keep my minimap while juking, while I just need the reduced fear for LaChappa because he's a chickenwuss.   This adds more of an RPG evolution to the characters, but it beats the slot machine.

Some of the perks are cool but just not really useful. Yeah, going out windows faster with Sneaky is cool, but I'd really rather one that lets me increase the possibility I can do so safely even when it is broken.

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@AhabThing is most players aren't using it's because spot time is considered as useless with the current meta. This perk might need a revamp or something like that.

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1 hour ago, xllxENIGMAxllx said:

@AhabThing is most players aren't using it's because spot time is considered as useless with the current meta. This perk might need a revamp or something like that.

   An increase in spot time actually comes in pretty handy... but most people refuse to use anything other than medic, thick skin and sucker punch or swift attacker... As these perks stand now... you couldn't make ANY perk good enough to change their minds.
   But I do think getting a flare gun for free when using this perk is a bit much. And with multiple players in a lobby using it, then it becomes way too much.
   I think I also forgot to mention... I think you have a good idea with making the radio repairable. Confound Jason with a radio he destroyed already... give another shock repair failure warning to keep him guessing at what is actually being repaired... not to mention, just something else that someone can repair for points.
    But I am not sure they can ever make easy listening viable in many players opinion... there was another suggestion above by @gtdjlocker311 suggesting that it be effective anywhere on the map... but this would make restful redundant... and a huge part of the no fear build is keeping stamina regeneration high by keeping fear down. With the percentage easy listening is at now (around 30% maxed out I think) it would be way too overpowered if it worked anywhere on the map... it should not go any further than you can hear it on your speakers at its current percentage... but perhaps the percentage drops say quickly as you move away from the radio and you lose the bonus entirely at double the normal distance you can hear it?... Just a thought.

On ‎10‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 12:56 AM, Pazuzu said:

I also think any repair based perks shouldn't make the quick time wheel move faster, rather they should increase the size of the targets, making it slightly easier for a "dumber" counselor to repair an objective. The slight increase of speed for smart characters like Deb, Eric and Tommy wasn't all that helpful anyways (imo).

   I like this idea... I am not the best at making repairs with anyone but a repair counselor (and still make a mistake now and again with some)... and trying this perk with a repair counselor as it is, I actually fail more often because it is sped up. Getting rid of the speed bonus and switching that bonus to increase the size of the target would make this perk far more useful to anyone... at least in my opinion.

@thrawn3054 I like your idea of paying to improve perks... but perhaps it should be somewhat more expensive to do it. Although the random thingy when rolling perks is annoying, paying to improve perks like this might just lead to a vast majority of players having the best of the best perks that they use rather quickly... I don't know if that part is really a good idea. Some randomness is a good thing... Having higher level perks more available after passing certain levels should get all of us better perks quicker in the first place just rolling them with the current slot machine. 
    By somewhat more expensive... I mean A LOT more expensive. Many of us have A LOT of CP... I don't think this should be a hand the best perks to the players with the most CP.

@kohagan An option to sell a perk right away could work great to speed things up when rolling perks... but should include a comparison if you already have any other level of the perk you just rolled and an option for which one to sell. For instance... I would rather keep a perk with 1% or 2% less on its bonus if it had 0% on its penalty over any penalty on the other perk. It can be hard to keep the numbers on your existing perks in your head... so a comparison between existing perks and option for which to sell should go with this... But the comparison might count as new content.

   There are some other ideas from some other people here that I like as well... and some I don't like so much. But this post is getting long already... I will be back again... "Soon."
 

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Aquanaut and Silent Swimmer are useless. And Motorboating is pointless because Speed Demon works with the car and the boat.  No one is going to use that stuff while there are perks like Medic that are a must have.

The same goes for Evasion. No one uses combat dodge because it's broken so Evasion gets no love.

Heavy Mover is another perk I shake my head at. Again why would I use this over Thick Skin? I'm never going to use that at Legendary.

Grinder would be worth a go but even at Legendary the extra xp you get from it is a very small amount.

Adrenaline Rush is another perk that make me scratch my head. You break free maybe once in fifty matches. I don't know if it works with a pocket knife but the time Jason spends pulling the knife out is enough to get stamina. Why do I need this over Marathon?

Ice Cold is useless because even though you get a decent fear resistance out of it when you see a dead body there are better fear resistance perks. 

Tinker dosen't get used because it speeds repair. Now think about why that is. Because if you have a high repair speed isn't an issue. Only when your using a level 1,2 or a 3 in repair would you use this and because it speeds up the wheel and THAT MAKES IT HARDER to repair with those characters because their skill checks are so small. People actually use Speed Demon to help with repair because it slows down the repairs. 

Pyro is junk. Instead of increasing the spotting effects of the flare gun it's should buff damage or stun time. 

Does Man at Arms even work? Because if AJ or Shelly could get more then two swings out of their baseball bat at Epic I would have kept it. Using this with higher luck characters is pointless when you can improve in other areas. This perk needs a slight buff. 

Controled Breathing is useless. Your counselor always screams in hiding places no matter what you do unless your Jenny. There are better fear resistant perks. 

Escape Artist is a joke perk right? Because even equipped on Jenny that is a useless perk. Unless your going up against someone who is extremely new you almost never break out of grab. 

Easy Listening there no point to this one either. Not when Restful exists and follows you wherever you go. 

Potent Ranger is a decent perk. My main problem with it however is the fact that players have been killing themselves to be Tommy. Their reward for doing so is the hero character with 10 out of 10 stats and Potent Ranger to boot. 

Heavy Sleeper is pointless considering tents are so far away from everything and the perk is useless once Jason gets rage. 

Psychic is pointless because of party chat. 

All this being said I really don't have an issues regarding the perk system. I don't think you could make significant changes to the perks mentioned above without making the more useful ones overpowered or nerfing them. 

Nor do I want to see the random number generator go away. My wife started playing two days ago and has a Legendary Speed Demon. I do think thats fair considering the game is pretty hard on beginners. 

Do you know what I would like to see out of you GunMedia? A new game based on the gameplay of this one. A spritual sequel in a sense. You could do more with it and make it your own. Land the right development team and you could be going places. And you could have different areas, killers and characters. I would pay for that game. Mainly because I enjoy this far more then Dead by Daylight. Think about it @wes, @ShiftySamurai I think you could do it. And I would very much enjoy such a game. 

 

 

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