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chewie1974

I would suggest rolling skills for counselors

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I think to often the repair counselors are pretty much useless. When in a group of 3 or 4, Jason always targets the slower repair counselors because they know who to look for. Also even if you are good at repair, you pretty much are screwed if a trap is on a car or fuse box with a slow character so whats point in being them since Jason will be on you in a second? It would help if Jason had no way of knowing a counselors skills so they can not target certain counselors knowing they are weak. If players could role their own skill tree or something I think it would add to the game or even create own counselor would be fun. 

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   Repair counselors are far from useless. I play Mitch most often (3 speed, the only way you can get slower is with speed penalties on your perks) and I do just fine. I escape quite a bit and in those games I do die, I have almost always got a few things done, if I have not actually fully repaired one or more vehicles and / or got the cops called.
    If Jason wants to target me first... he is welcome to try. I can kite a very experienced Jason for very long periods of time with the slowest of the slow... and if I do die, then so be it. That kind of thing actually happens to everyone quite a bit in this game... By that kind of thing, I mean dying... and it should be expected to happen to anyone quite a bit... let us all remember what game we are playing.... This is not Dora the explorer chasing you... Even the best of us sometimes are the first to die... and not necessarily the last. This makes surviving the game in any way far more rewarding than surviving every match.
   Most Jason players do not target repair counselors first... It is more luck of the draw as to who is nearest to him. He can actually spend quite a while before he finds a repair counselor and just leaving other counselors alone because they are not repair counselors is not a good idea. A half descent player that plays say... Vanessa can kite Jason for VERY long periods of time... and is still able to get things done when he is not on their ass.
    There are many players that are extremely talented with repairs, even with the worst repair skill counselors. Many players can do any repair without a single mistake on these counselors, it just takes them longer.... and practice, lots of practice. There are many other reasons why Jason should not necessarily try to target a specific counselor or type of counselor. You take what you can find, when you can find it... but if you screw up a repair, you can expect to see Jason nearby very shortly... unless he is otherwise occupied with someone else.
 
     If players could "roll" or choose their own skill load out... the trolling would be far worse than it is now. On any counselor you could get 10 luck and 10 strength. The piñata party would never stop... demasking would be made even easier than it already is on ANY counselor.
     It is far better for balance purposes to keep their stats as they are. Should the track star have 3 speed? Should little Tiffany have 10 strength? Should Lachoppa have 10 stamina? The answer to these questions is a resounding... NO.
    Pick the counselor with the types of skills that fit your gameplay style that you want to play during any given match... Change up your counselors and try a different playstyle. Practicing evasion tactics will help anyone in this game, no matter who they are playing... eventually you will have to run away from Jason (which is usually a better strategy than trying to shake his hand), being good at playing keep away with the big guy is a big help to any player... and if you can get good at that with a slow counselor, imagine how much longer you could keep up the chase with a fast counselor.

   Also... welcome to the forums!

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no its to easy for Jason to target the repair people because they know to look for them. Most players are not advanced players I guess like you. Game needs to cater to the overall general audience, not just because your good at a repair counselor. 90% of the time the slower characters are killed first so your wrong. Jason already has huge advantages and knowing the counselors strengths and weakness is part of that and he should not know what each counselor is capable of. I expect many people who like playing Jason would be against this but its pointless in playing the repair characters. Mitch only strength is getting out of the grasp but most of the smart Jasons know not to waste time with grabbing and just slash because someone could have a pocketknife anyway or like Mitch be quick at getting out of a hold. I never grab Mitch just cut him down, no sense in risking him getting loose.

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   I you want someone to see your reply... you need to tag them... like this @chewie1974.
   As to being wrong... not so much.
   Time is NOT on Jason's side. Running down the clock means a counselor survives. A Jason that wants to look for a specific counselor... or even a specific type of counselor can and will waste way too much time doing it, while foregoing opportunities to kill other counselors that he may have just as hard of a time finding and leaving objectives open for anyone to complete, whether they are a repair counselor or not.
    Jason is pretty slow when walking or even running... its his morph ability that teleports him around the map and it has a cooldown... There are also only so many "pins" in the map that Jason morphs to... he does not teleport to the exact spot you click on the map. His sense range is more limited than most people think until Jason is in rage mode. His shift ability is needed to be able to catch up to counselors that understand how to manage their stamina... and with its cooldown it can be unwise to use shift for travelling around the map. Stalk has its uses... but is nothing without sense at least, combined with sense, morph and shift it is deadly. And remember, Jason sees sound pings from counselors. Low stealth = more sound pings... high stealth = less sound pings. A big ping is closer to him than a small ping. When sound pings are cluttered up in one area... guess where that Jason is about to show up.

    I like playing Jason and counselors and I am flat out against this. There are no Jason mains in this game unless they are just playing offline bots. We ALL play counselor way more than we play Jason.
    Mitch rocks... as I said before, I do VERY well with him. If I were to use a faster counselor I would probably have to surrender to die. Dying is part of this game... If new players could easily escape even the best Jason players consistently... NO ONE would want to play Jason as it would be beyond frustrating and that would be it for the game.
    Once you learn how to play better through practice and knowledge of how both sides of play work... even playing as a slow counselor, you will not get caught so quickly. If you are getting caught first all the time, there is one thing you can do to avoid this. Run away from Jason. Learn how to kite him effectively. When you die first... spectate the players with more experience than you... you will learn a lot from this to better your own game. If you are still fairly new, I do not recommend combating Jason players with experience... but learn how to use the combat mechanics along the way when you can. Counselors are way too overpowered as far as combating Jason goes... but it takes practice, just like anything else in life. No one is good at anything without practice... lots of practice.... which takes time... lots of time.

   If this, or any other game was balanced around new players... it would get pretty damned boring REALLY fast. Also... even the best players die first sometimes... whether they would admit to it or not.

   If you like the game and are interested in learning more about how to play effectively... There are two threads pinned near the top under the General Discussion section. "The Playbook - Techniques and Strategies".... and "Tips for those of you who are having trouble" both of these can be very helpful to new players.. or even players that have been around and think they know what is going on... but really have no idea.
   Check these threads out when you have the time... if you are interested in learning more. This game may seem simple at its core, but there is a lot more to it than you would think.

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15 hours ago, chewie1974 said:

I think to often the repair counselors are pretty much useless. When in a group of 3 or 4, Jason always targets the slower repair counselors because they know who to look for. Also even if you are good at repair, you pretty much are screwed if a trap is on a car or fuse box with a slow character so whats point in being them since Jason will be on you in a second? It would help if Jason had no way of knowing a counselors skills so they can not target certain counselors knowing they are weak. If players could role their own skill tree or something I think it would add to the game or even create own counselor would be fun. 

Every counselor serves a purpose. Some function better than others, depending on what you are trying to accomplish. Every Jason you encounter will not do things the exact same way.

9 hours ago, chewie1974 said:

no its to easy for Jason to target the repair people because they know to look for them. Most players are not advanced players I guess like you. Game needs to cater to the overall general audience, not just because your good at a repair counselor. 90% of the time the slower characters are killed first so your wrong. Jason already has huge advantages and knowing the counselors strengths and weakness is part of that and he should not know what each counselor is capable of. I expect many people who like playing Jason would be against this but its pointless in playing the repair characters. Mitch only strength is getting out of the grasp but most of the smart Jasons know not to waste time with grabbing and just slash because someone could have a pocketknife anyway or like Mitch be quick at getting out of a hold. I never grab Mitch just cut him down, no sense in risking him getting loose.

The general audience of the game knows that knowledge and experience are what help players learn and grow. Part of the fun is learning as you go. Even repair counselors can survive, once you learn how to do so. Spend some time reading the more useful threads and pick up some pointers. You can also watch some videos on Youtube as well. You'll be repairing like an ace in no time.

http://forum.f13game.com/topic/10596-the-playbook-techniques-and-strategies/

http://forum.f13game.com/topic/7683-tips-for-those-of-you-who-are-having-trouble/

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On 10/19/2018 at 4:46 PM, chewie1974 said:

I think to often the repair counselors are pretty much useless. When in a group of 3 or 4, Jason always targets the slower repair counselors because they know who to look for. Also even if you are good at repair, you pretty much are screwed if a trap is on a car or fuse box with a slow character so whats point in being them since Jason will be on you in a second? It would help if Jason had no way of knowing a counselors skills so they can not target certain counselors knowing they are weak. If players could role their own skill tree or something I think it would add to the game or even create own counselor would be fun. 

The female repair counselors have high stealth, so if you can just stay off Jason's radar and repair the objectives he is furthest away from (check your map often, Jason is sometimes highlighted on it if he has been spotted by another player.) You can get stuff done. If a trap is on the objective you can disarm it with a pocket knife silently. If you don't have a knife, you or another player unfortunately will have to set it off. So make sure to heal (or equip the thick skin perk) and run away! 

Personally, I do think the game has a pretty decent learning curve. skilled high level Jasons usually clean up (6- 8 kills a game) Whereas beginning players on both sides of the aisle (Jason and counselors) tend to struggle. Watch some videos, learn to conserve your stamina, (don't run if you don't need to, you make louder pings for Jason to follow when you do) lock cabin doors and try to avoid close quarters combat unless necessary.

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15 hours ago, Pazuzu said:

The female repair counselors have high stealth, so if you can just stay off Jason's radar and repair the objectives he is furthest away from (check your map often, Jason is sometimes highlighted on it if he has been spotted by another player.) You can get stuff done. If a trap is on the objective you can disarm it with a pocket knife silently. If you don't have a knife, you or another player unfortunately will have to set it off. So make sure to heal (or equip the thick skin perk) and run away! 

Personally, I do think the game has a pretty decent learning curve. skilled high level Jasons usually clean up (6- 8 kills a game) Whereas beginning players on both sides of the aisle (Jason and counselors) tend to struggle. Watch some videos, learn to conserve your stamina, (don't run if you don't need to, you make louder pings for Jason to follow when you do) lock cabin doors and try to avoid close quarters combat unless necessary.

   Good advice... some people think the stealth system is useless... but in one game as A.J. last night I managed to escape to the police with a Jason already in rage mode as the last counselor on the Pinehurst map. I played with this person many times before and he does know what he is doing... but as he stated after the game, the complete lack of sound pings left him guessing where to morph... and I lucked out as he never morphed within range to notice me until after the cops arrived as he knew where I would be going... that and it was one of the biggest maps. It does work fine, but not necessarily the way everyone thinks it should work. 
   Nothing is 100%... but everything can still be useful when used properly and the stars are aligned in your favor. Its not going to help you in every match... and never for the entire match... but it can still be a big help. Using stealth effectively only requires the patience for slower movement. It was just good luck on my part that he did not morph within sense range of me while he was in rage.
   If fear level is tied into the range Jason can sense you, then the no fear perk build I was using may have had a lot to do with why he couldn't sense me from afar. I know its not tied to his ability to sense you, you can sense counselors immediately within range of you as soon as it pops up the first time who would have either no fear or very little fear... but there have been quite a few instances of playing that makes me think it may be tied to how far away he can sense you. There are conflicting opinions on whether this is the case or not, I don't think the devs ever confirmed it one way or the other.

   I agree the game does have a decent learning curve, but there are many aspects that can take quite a while for any one player to figure out on their own. The guides can be a big help to anyone with the patience to read some of the posts and watch the videos.
   Also... even the best Jason players have bad games and do not get many kills. We all have good and bad games.

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It all depends on the player and their knowledge of the game. If you have multiple high repair counselors in a game, especially if they're spread out they can absolutely ruin Jason's day. On the small maps especially things can be repaired before Jason has shift. While having a counselor that Jason doesn't know the specific stats on would be cool I think it'd be easy to break as well.

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1 hour ago, thrawn3054 said:

It all depends on the player and their knowledge of the game. If you have multiple high repair counselors in a game, especially if they're spread out they can absolutely ruin Jason's day. On the small maps especially things can be repaired before Jason has shift. While having a counselor that Jason doesn't know the specific stats on would be cool I think it'd be easy to break as well.

   Players can also get cars repaired and leave in hordes on large maps. Lost a car full last night on Higgin large before my first shift was half way charged. If they can work together, communicate, find parts quickly and forgo speed looting every cabin on the map before repairing anything... and Jason morphs to the wrong car first... they may have to give Jason a goodbye wave emote... or the obscene finger gesture emote. Both would work in this instance. 
   I have also seen both cars leave on large maps filled to capacity before Jason gets his first shift quite a few times as Jason or one of the players helping get things done quickly. It can make for a very short match... It happens more often on small maps, but it is still rare on any map.
   An entire team of repair counselors can indeed ruin Jason's day without most of them ever even seeing him.

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32 minutes ago, Ahab said:

   Players can also get cars repaired and leave in hordes on large maps. Lost a car full last night on Higgin large before my first shift was half way charged. If they can work together, communicate, find parts quickly and forgo speed looting every cabin on the map before repairing anything... and Jason morphs to the wrong car first... they may have to give Jason a goodbye wave emote... or the obscene finger gesture emote. Both would work in this instance. 
   I have also seen both cars leave on large maps filled to capacity before Jason gets his first shift quite a few times as Jason or one of the players helping get things done quickly. It can make for a very short match... It happens more often on small maps, but it is still rare on any map.
   An entire team of repair counselors can indeed ruin Jason's day without most of them ever even seeing him.

Oh I know. I'm just saying it can be even worse on the small maps.

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I main A.J Mason and I could never see myself playing another character, while everyone is struggling and running around, I’m either about to start the fully repaired car or I’m already gone on the boat. 

When I play as Jason (where I regularly at the minimum 5 kills or total wipeout) if an entire 4-car load escape then they escape, no matter my skill, if there’s a co-ordinated group who get lucky with item drops then so be it! Also if I play against better players then I have take it in my stride and learn!

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1 hour ago, TommysMightyChin said:

I main A.J Mason and I could never see myself playing another character, while everyone is struggling and running around, I’m either about to start the fully repaired car or I’m already gone on the boat. 

When I play as Jason (where I regularly at the minimum 5 kills or total wipeout) if an entire 4-car load escape then they escape, no matter my skill, if there’s a co-ordinated group who get lucky with item drops then so be it! Also if I play against better players then I have take it in my stride and learn!

   I just switched back to A.J. recently... been playing Mitch for a while consistently. But I do float around between a few different counselors now and again. It can be good to switch things up every once in a while. Each of them have their charms... depending on how you want to play. At times I have done very well with each counselor... and other times, not so much. But I prefer the repair counselors and generally stick with one for some time before switching.
   But there are many people like you who only like to play one counselor. I have a few friends that I have been playing with for a year now consistently and have never seen them play a different counselor without the random selection bug happening... which does still happen, but it is much rarer now.

   I do pretty good as Jason as well... but non of us are perfect. It can be hard to have a minimum kill count of five if even one four seater escapes with four passengers... and it can happen to anyone. You just have to miss the car with one shift... and everyone makes mistakes from time to time. If its full and heads straight for the exit... you have zero chance of catching it without shift as long as it is moving.
   Nerves of steel is a big help with getting around even the best Jason players in the car... you don't lose your mini map when in panic mode, and you can see Jason coming after you on it. As he shifts up behind you, it is extremely easy to stop and back up when you can see his position and render his shift ineffective. Maybe its just me, but I find this easy to do to ANY Jason if I am behind the wheel... and I will drive around until the car is full... or I have all remaining counselors... then I will leave. But, I make mistakes like everyone else... just because I am driving is no guarantee I am getting out with anyone.
   It would be nice to see more players with the attitude that you have: "So be it." instead of the salt that flows from many of them in game.

   Also... If I have not said it already... Welcome to the forums!
 

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The great white whale hunter already said what I wanted to say, I would add that I feel the game is best balanced when there is a high percentage of repair characters, that unfortunately means some of them die. If more of the people who played the stronger, faster characters made it a priority to protect them, we’d have an entirely different game. 

To go off on a bit of a tangent about the meta, I’ve been thinking lately that it should have been more divided, that different Counselor should have had a specific meta like Jenny’s no fear build. There should have been a more team valuable meta that should have risen to the top. If they ever do design another game they should consider this from the start, people are going to play into an obvious meta, maybe it could be used to encourage team play. Actually backstory reasons could be used as well to reinforce certain protective behaviour or team work between specific characters. 

Welcome to the forum, and thanks, now I have something to think about.

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7 hours ago, Ahab said:

   I just switched back to A.J. recently... been playing Mitch for a while consistently. But I do float around between a few different counselors now and again. It can be good to switch things up every once in a while. Each of them have their charms... depending on how you want to play. At times I have done very well with each counselor... and other times, not so much. But I prefer the repair counselors and generally stick with one for some time before switching.
   But there are many people like you who only like to play one counselor. I have a few friends that I have been playing with for a year now consistently and have never seen them play a different counselor without the random selection bug happening... which does still happen, but it is much rarer now.

   I do pretty good as Jason as well... but non of us are perfect. It can be hard to have a minimum kill count of five if even one four seater escapes with four passengers... and it can happen to anyone. You just have to miss the car with one shift... and everyone makes mistakes from time to time. If its full and heads straight for the exit... you have zero chance of catching it without shift as long as it is moving.
   Nerves of steel is a big help with getting around even the best Jason players in the car... you don't lose your mini map when in panic mode, and you can see Jason coming after you on it. As he shifts up behind you, it is extremely easy to stop and back up when you can see his position and render his shift ineffective. Maybe its just me, but I find this easy to do to ANY Jason if I am behind the wheel... and I will drive around until the car is full... or I have all remaining counselors... then I will leave. But, I make mistakes like everyone else... just because I am driving is no guarantee I am getting out with anyone.
   It would be nice to see more players with the attitude that you have: "So be it." instead of the salt that flows from many of them in game.

   Also... If I have not said it already... Welcome to the forums!
 

I have tried other counsellors but they don’t suit my play style, A.J offers me the chance to be stealthy, good at repairs and whenever I have to fight Jason, my hit stuns him, he hits the dirt and the weapon busts, it adds to the moment I feel like my low luck kicked in.

If it’s in the early stages of the map then, yes shifting towards an escaping car is difficult as the driver can manoeuvre his way about to evade you. However with morph available from the getgo for me, you can time it right to completely spook and mess over anyone escaping. If you’re savvy enough, you can always guarantee someone will spawn near a car and hey presto first kill.

It is the only mentality to have with this game or any game should you actually want to enjoy it. When I first started and would die within the first five minutes, I wouldn’t dream of requesting big game changes. The problem isn’t the game, the problem is me.

I will say that I am slowly (very very slowly) making my peace with players who team with Jason and ruining my experience, they are new, they don’t know what to expect, so this is how they combat it. As much as I want to report them, I can’t! Messaging them telling them to stop teaming results in a “Ha U MAD BRO FKN NOOB” so I just have to “so be it” and wait until I get to be Jason and punish them with unholy power.

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@TommysMightyChin I like your reasoning for your choice of counselor...

    There are some damned good drivers out there too. Part 2 Jason, whose morph regenerates faster than all the others... can get in front of you after a missed attempt with shift... but that does not help him at all unless the driver crashes. The only things that makes it difficult to catch the car in shift is the skill of the driver... combined with being able to see Jason on the mini map.
     +Shift does not help any Jason player catch a car if he cannot get in front of the car.

    I would not dream of requesting ANY change because I died in the first five minutes. I break out the popcorn and watch the others play from spectate... Watching noobs play can be amusing... while skilled players can put on a good show, we may actually learn something from watching them. Plus, I often play with friends and I am often the lobby host, so if I were to leave... everyone comes with me. And that would just spoil everyone's fun. 
   There are achievements (or trophies for console players) that are awarded for dying often in this game. This is a big hint that people just might die often in this game. I knew full well what I was getting into when I bought the game. Dying is a big part of it. Surviving in any way would not feel rewarding what so ever if you were able to escape in almost every match. The problem is not the game... it is not you either, even the best counselor players can still die first. We should all be expecting to die often in this game, just like almost every other multi-player game that anyone here can name.
    Still, there are many people I meet in game that think they should be invincible, but its fair that everyone else can die... or that they should be super powered ninjas with the magical power of invisibility... I cannot agree with these players.

    I have not been able to make peace with many teamers. Most of them are pretty damned rude... I do not make peace with assholes, I learned the lesson as to why not to bother when I was very young. There are some that are very polite... but I feel the need to cheat in any way denotes a lack of skill.
    There are also many players that people call other players teamers just because Jason found them, there was no teaming in many cases... just a player that needed to throw blame at someone else because they died... I see this way more often than actual "teamers."
    In the fist game I every played, I was a passenger in a car that Jason stopped... got out and sacrificed myself so the others could escape as we were only stopped around ten yards from the exit... I was called a teamer for doing this by those I sacrificed myself for... I was never able to figure out why they thought I was teaming with Jason... Hell, I did not even know anyone that owned the game yet. I was just trying to help out other team members... Its not like it hurt me in any way as I can just move on to another match, but three players escaped in that car.
    I find it easier to just ignore them... and not play with them. Many do not change their gamer tags and it is easy enough to find another lobby. Many teamers are also far from new. Messaging them to bitch at them is a waste of time as well. But while we are in game with them, we can make it far more difficult for them than many imagine.
    "So be it" is just a good attitude to have. And when you can screw over the teamers... all I can say is... More power to ya. Keep on punishing the teamers with those unholy powers!

@Slasher_Clone It may have been easier to have more meta builds than Jenny's no fear build... and the medic, thick skinned and swift attacker (or sucker punch) meta... if there was a few more skills in the skill tree and a few different perks that are not so situational. There are too many perks that pretty much everyone agrees are completely useless.
    I do use preparedness and nerves of steel on pretty much every counselor... its my own meta... I want to know immediately in a match where to run with the repair parts I find in the first cabin I search... and losing the mini map when driving a vehicle can easily be a death sentence. It does not help the low composure counselors stay out of fear for a lot longer than they would without them, but the reasons I just gave still make them useful enough for me to use on pretty much everyone.
    

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I been playing for a couple weeks and now at level 124. Only counselors that seem to give me problems when I am Jason is usually Tiffany, AJ or Chad when good players are using them. Everyone else is usually easy to kill. As a counselor I like playing as Adam or Mitch and I seem to have better success with the balanced characters. I feel I can help out more then as well and not limited to one thing or another. I can always tell we are playing with a terrible Jason when I can repair with Tiffany or Bugsy and nobody shows up to try to kill me...lol

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I think the counselor tropes are what make them so fun. Repair counselors are smart and slow, and bully characters are fast and dumb. I'm not one of the people who thinks Jason is as underpowered as this board would have you believe, but he has 7 counselors to kill and he should know who to prioritize them, and teamwork is supposed to be important. Like having a fast character purposely mess up on the phone to draw Jason's attention and distract him while you trip the traps at the car, heal up, and put them in quickly with a repair character.

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On 10/22/2018 at 12:03 PM, Ahab said:

There are some damned good drivers out there too. Part 2 Jason, whose morph regenerates faster than all the others... can get in front of you after a missed attempt with shift... but that does not help him at all unless the driver crashes.

Unless he knows where to morph. There's certain spots on the maps that'll put Jason in the middle of the road/path. So if you time it right you can morph in and kill the car before the counselors even know what happened. The bridge between Blair's cove and Stillwater is a great example.

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6 hours ago, Somethin Cool said:

Unless he knows where to morph. There's certain spots on the maps that'll put Jason in the middle of the road/path. So if you time it right you can morph in and kill the car before the counselors even know what happened. The bridge between Blair's cove and Stillwater is a great example.

   There is a few spots like that. Sometimes we get lucky with the morph pins... and sometimes we click a bit too far in another direction and end up at a different morph pin than was intended... even knowing where they are... But knowing where the morph pins are does help a lot.
    Most Jasons in rage can also pull off more than one morph attempts, but if they have already used their shift, they may not get much of a second chance to stop the car anyway. Sometimes when we miss a car on the first attempt, we do not get another... and they escape... but, some counselors are bound to escape, just not necessarily every match. For the cars that get by me, I almost wish Jason had an emote to wave goodbye... or to flip them the bird if they were rude.

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