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Jason needs to be immune to stun while raging through doors/walls

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3 minutes ago, Fair Play said:

I wouldn't doubt there are players running the thick skin / medic / hypochondriac perk setup, but I doubt there are many instances of 7 at one time.

Right.  A big enough group of people are going to accomplish their goal  no matter what. And all of the random stun immunity stuff would have to be tied in with making bad weapon swings count against counselors.  Say hitting walls, trees, or Jason in stun immunity, hell call it damage/stun immunity, since I'm not sure if taking a hit while in stun immunity counts against Jason's demasking hit points right now.

What I'm getting at is kind of forcing the counselors into taking risks in that situation where as right now they would just swing away until he's stunned again no matter what. But at the same time not make it so far in Jason's favor that they wouldn't ever try. 

Another thing to help control the hunting parties would be to make coming back as Tommy random. All that work would likely go to waste if Tommy wasn't part of their hunting party. 

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2 minutes ago, Somethin Cool said:

Right.  A big enough group of people are going to accomplish their goal  no matter what. And all of the random stun immunity stuff would have to be tied in with making bad weapon swings count against counselors.  Say hitting walls, trees, or Jason in stun immunity, hell call it damage/stun immunity, since I'm not sure if taking a hit while in stun immunity counts against Jason's demasking hit points right now.

What I'm getting at is kind of forcing the counselors into taking risks in that situation where as right now they would just swing away until he's stunned again no matter what. But at the same time not make it so far in Jason's favor that they wouldn't ever try. 

Another thing to help control the hunting parties would be to make coming back as Tommy random. All that work would likely go to waste if Tommy wasn't part of their hunting party. 

I agree on middle ground in this stun matter. Tipping the scale too far in either direction would make things worse. Having swings against objects to potentially break weapons wouldn't be a bad touch.

I always thought at least 2 people had to die/escape before Tommy spawns in.

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3 minutes ago, Fair Play said:

I always thought at least 2 people had to die/escape before Tommy spawns in.

If done correctly Tommy goes to the person that wants it most. It isn't random at all. I've been the 3rd person to die and after someone else escaped and still come back as Tommy. I play Tommy so much I could say I main Tommy. In the past 2 weeks I've killed 16 Jason's (mostly low levels which I normally don't bother with except for the fact I was a bit out of practice), only playing on weekends. For 15 of them I was Tommy. And that doesn't include the times we messed up the kill or the Jason was better than us.

I'm not going to post all the details for the sake of all Jason players but believe me good hunters know all the algorithms for coming back as Jarvis. 

It is too easy to kill Jason and I think as a Jason hunter I can bring some good ideas to the table on how to make it harder. But I seriously doubt it'll ever get down to 1 in 75 games. 

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2 hours ago, Somethin Cool said:

If done correctly Tommy goes to the person that wants it most. It isn't random at all. I've been the 3rd person to die and after someone else escaped and still come back as Tommy. I play Tommy so much I could say I main Tommy. In the past 2 weeks I've killed 16 Jason's (mostly low levels which I normally don't bother with except for the fact I was a bit out of practice), only playing on weekends. For 15 of them I was Tommy. And that doesn't include the times we messed up the kill or the Jason was better than us.

I'm not going to post all the details for the sake of all Jason players but believe me good hunters know all the algorithms for coming back as Jarvis. 

It is too easy to kill Jason and I think as a Jason hunter I can bring some good ideas to the table on how to make it harder. But I seriously doubt it'll ever get down to 1 in 75 games. 

I'm not the least bit surprised about the algorithm. People seem to decipher it and make it work for them.

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14 minutes ago, Fair Play said:

 I'm not the least bit surprised about the algorithm. People seem to decipher it and make it work for them.

Yeah it's really no different than memorizing the phone houses, or Tommy box locations. Nothing's random in this game. I wish it was...

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I've actually have memorized the Tommy house box locations for the most part.Pinehurst and Jarvis I still haven't quite got the patterns down but they don't get played that often. It comes as a big help since killing Jason at least on PC has sort of become the thing to do now. I've even had kill squads waste pocket knives on the traps guarding the power box to get Tommy in the game. It does need to be harder to kill Jason.

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On a side note if you really pay attention to the opening cinematics on certain maps it will give you clues to where the Tommy radio is.Higgins Large is a good example, you can see the tower in the cinematic sometimes so you know it's near the campsite on the eastern side.

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Hopefully they consider this idea when it comes time to address balance changes. If he's so enraged I'd think adrenaline would prevent him from reacting to a potential stun?

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@Fair Play  5 seconds is a good number... not too much... not too little. The current 2 seconds is too little. As far as players adapting to this... well, we will all adapt... but I think this would help as far as the piñata issue goes at the very least.
   It still leaves the indefensible hit problem though. I have had many skilled battle Chads just stay out of range while I am in block until I drop my guard... at which time they will move in to punish... great tactics on the part of the battle Chads and I have seen it used many times on other Jason players as well. While getting into block is slowed, it is way too easy for them to punish. Against players that have adjusted their tactics in this way... block needs to be reverted to its old speed for it to help. Just standing around in block makes for an extremely boring game for Jason, the hunters... and the battle Chads... and every other player in the match.
   Also... the more annoying perk build for Jason to face when being used as a piñata is thick skinned, medic and swift attacker... at least in my opinion. Once I see that someone is using swift attacker, they are easy to deal with when fighting them alone... As they begin their attack, a quick throw can still be accomplished to cancel their attack followed by a grab... this works every time... IF they are alone, and considering the quick throw hits of course. But this perk build in a group is much more problematic for the Jason player as grabs against groups do not work well... and throwing knives are a very limited resource.... I am in no way suggesting here that any perks be nerfed, just to make that clear.

@Somethin Cool Being held accountable for swings in this way would be a great addition. But I would add that strikes on Jason while he is currently in a stun animation... or even strikes on other counselors should also count towards a weapon breaking... If there is an accountability for this, they should take it all the way. Anything a weapon can hit should count towards weapon breakage with each hit.
   I am pretty sure that Jason taking a hit while stunned does not count towards demasking... as he can absorb and incredible amount of hits from an axe or machete while stunned and still not lose hit mask, nor will the counselor lose their weapon from these strikes. This is also why players wait until the stun animation is ending for that indefensible strike I keep mentioning.

   Forcing counselors to take a risk, but not putting all the power in Jason's hands is what I direct my suggestions towards. Right now all the power is in the counselors hands. Even a lone counselor can demask Jason pretty easily so long as he has indefensible hits towards demasking. More than one counselor just makes it exponentially easier with each counselor added to the fray. If we just lose that indefensible hit... this problem is solved at the very least... They would now have to use skill and not timing... and actually take the risk of a hit or even death for participating in the demasking attempt.
   A couple extra seconds of stun immunity makes counselors think twice and actually gives Jason a chance to deal with the piñata situation... and a chance is all he needs, neither side should have a guarantee. Any change will be adapted to by both sides but can still change an outcome without necessarily favoring either side. Skill, forethought and a touch of luck can swing the balance when both sides at least have the ability to defend themselves properly... without one side spending way to long stuck in a stun animation or lying on his back or being open to a guaranteed attack at the end of the animation they are locked into.
   Even if they could get it down to 1 in 75 games (which will never happen, at least not on a consistent basis)... players will adapt, get better and raise their chances considerably again. My point is, in a night of say... eight matches... we should never see eight Jason kills... or even four for that matter. But even with a perfect balance on both sides that many can agree with... anything is still possible, but not on a consistent basis.

   The whole Tommy thing is a different matter, but still part of the issue. One suggestion I saw that I thought would work out very well was not allowing a suicide to return as Tommy... suicide is never the answer in the first place. I cannot remember who came up with that one... but I like it.

   Another suggestion to make it harder to kill Jason was to show on Jason's map which power box powers the Tommy radio... This suggestion was from @GeneiJin and is well thought out. I liked this option at first... but without the other suggested changes, this would lead to Jason standing beside a power box either getting clobbered while the box gets repaired and smashing it down again... over and over... for the duration of the match. But how this goes down would also depend on a great many things. This suggestion also would be fairly useless to a -Traps Jason unless he stays near this power box and allows all other objectives to be completed.
   This has the potential of stopping Tommy from getting called in a large percentage of matches... but still leaves the other issues once again. If the piñata issue and the indefensible hit issues were dealt with... there would be no need to bother stopping Tommy from being called... Jason would not be so easy to demask as he would now have a chance to properly defend against mask loss... but the Jason hunters would still have a fair chance to demask and kill him when considering they have a workable knowledge of the combat mechanics and enough practice to use them effectively. Jason would have a fair chance to defend himself without necessarily being a master of the combat mechanics... and counselors would have a fair chance to demask and kill him without being a master of combat mechanics... For those who have mastered the combat mechanics, these changes would barely even change the game beyond making it a touch more of a challenge for them when considering the other player has a similar level of knowledge and skill concerning the mechanics of combat.
 

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53 minutes ago, Ahab said:

@Fair Play  5 seconds is a good number... not too much... not too little. The current 2 seconds is too little. As far as players adapting to this... well, we will all adapt... but I think this would help as far as the piñata issue goes at the very least.
   It still leaves the indefensible hit problem though. I have had many skilled battle Chads just stay out of range while I am in block until I drop my guard... at which time they will move in to punish... great tactics on the part of the battle Chads and I have seen it used many times on other Jason players as well. While getting into block is slowed, it is way too easy for them to punish. Against players that have adjusted their tactics in this way... block needs to be reverted to its old speed for it to help. Just standing around in block makes for an extremely boring game for Jason, the hunters... and the battle Chads... and every other player in the match.
   Also... the more annoying perk build for Jason to face when being used as a piñata is thick skinned, medic and swift attacker... at least in my opinion. Once I see that someone is using swift attacker, they are easy to deal with when fighting them alone... As they begin their attack, a quick throw can still be accomplished to cancel their attack followed by a grab... this works every time... IF they are alone, and considering the quick throw hits of course. But this perk build in a group is much more problematic for the Jason player as grabs against groups do not work well... and throwing knives are a very limited resource.... I am in no way suggesting here that any perks be nerfed, just to make that clear.

This topic has brought up a lot to consider and some good ideas on how to fix it. I hope the development team takes the time to read some of our comments and take these ideas into consideration.

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You don't have to "rage" through doors. You an continue to combat stance and attack them as any seasoned Jason player does pre-rage (regardless of some nonsense so-called "rules of etiquette" ). Plus, this puts you in the stance necessary for block. If you want the instantaneous gratification of the "one tap" destruction of barricades then there should be some risk involved.

Quote

My point is, in a night of say... eight matches... we should never see eight Jason kills... 

I never see this happen in QP. Even if I get matched with a group of very experienced Jason hunters, the game servers boot everyone back onto the home screen after 3 or so rounds of play. If it's happening in private matches, that's on you. Make new friends with players that suck, then you can dominate. ?

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1 hour ago, Pazuzu said:

You don't have to "rage" through doors. You an continue to combat stance and attack them as any seasoned Jason player does pre-rage (regardless of some nonsense so-called "rules of etiquette" ). Plus, this puts you in the stance necessary for block. If you want the instantaneous gratification of the "one tap" destruction of barricades then there should be some risk involved.

I never see this happen in QP. Even if I get matched with a group of very experienced Jason hunters, the game servers boot everyone back onto the home screen after 3 or so rounds of play. If it's happening in private matches, that's on you. Make new friends with players that suck, then you can dominate. ?

   Somehow... I don't think you've thought any of this through....
   Raging through a door... is literally meant to "scare" someone away, not to invite an attack... let alone give a free attack to stun or demask. The changes suggested in this thread are merely meant to help make it what it was meant to be. Personal fear in this or any other game is never going to happen without the threat of actual harm coming to the real player... which is also never going to happen for obvious reasons. A "horror survival game" is meant to be "scary"... but concern over your character in the game's well being is the best that can be hoped for. Some of the suggested changes here, and in other threads may actually help that to happen for a great many players.
   And as I have said many times... people that complain about suggestions that are meant to stop "griefing" in any of its forms ALWAYS come from the people responsible for the griefing in the first place. A great many people have proved me right on this point... a great many times.

   Also... using part of a quote with no context to the rest of what was being talked about is  NEVER going to prove the person you are quoting wrong. And yes... I have seen eight J-kills in a row while the game dumps me in with different randoms several times over the course of several matches matches... which is just one of several reasons why I think killing Jason is too easy and why I used that particular number. I am also pretty far from the only person with this opinion.
   Although the best Jason killers out there may still have trouble getting that many in a row, these games that I speak of were played with almost every game having a new team of Jason hunters pop into the lobby... and not even all in a row. I stop between games for a smoke break sometimes when I am playing alone... or get something to eat... or to do something else that needs to be done around the house... and so on.
  Just because you have not seen something happen, does not mean something does not happen.

   I also never said I was playing Jason at all during that time, so I am unsure what you think should be "on me."... There are nights my preference is on counselor (from time to time, it is just a rarity). It is rare that I bother with private matches, but I prefer to play with players that know what they are doing... I am not here to dominate anyone, I play the game for fun that does not involve ruining the experience for others... but I actually enjoy a challenge. When something is too easy it is boring and quickly gets put down permanently. When someone pounds their chest like a gorilla after accomplishing something that is easy to do over and over again... does not make them actually good at anything... and leaves them with little hope of ever getting good at anything worthwhile trying to do.
   But yes I have made friends with players that "suck" as you call it. They were new players and wanted to learn more about how to play, so I helped them as best I could. Quite a few of them are now excellent players and give me a hell of a chase from either side of play.
   If you want to be a smart ass... I suggest trying it with someone with a lower I.Q. than yourself.

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8 hours ago, Ahab said:

Another suggestion to make it harder to kill Jason was to show on Jason's map which power box powers the Tommy radio... This suggestion was from @GeneiJin and is well thought out. I liked this option at first... but without the other suggested changes, this would lead to Jason standing beside a power box either getting clobbered while the box gets repaired and smashing it down again... over and over... for the duration of the match.

I've had a few matches actually play out that way. One was a pt 2 Jason. It was a real shit show. 

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@Ahab no offense but nearly every post you make is a gigantic wall of text. I am not quoting that entire thing to address one tiny statement. Notice that I said "If it's happening to you in private matches," It wasn't a definitive conclusion about your gaming habits. Sorry if I upset you, though.

But by the same token just because someone on the internet claims something happens, does not necessarily mean that it really happens. They could be exaggerating and embellishing to make a point or they could be straight up fibbing. Without actual video evidence it's just hearsay, or at best anecdotal evidence. 8 games with 8 successful Jason kills, post-dedicated servers just didn't sound very probable. Again, my apologies, if you can say with God as your witness this exact situation happened, (and that you aren't possibly remembering things) then I guess I will just have to believe you.

In my opinion, rage is simply meant to put pressure on the counselors and speed up gameplay by quickly destroying barriers and decreasing the cool down time on Jason's abilities. (Scaring players is really just a bonus.) Why have combat and weapons even in the game if halfway (give it take) through the match they are made irrelevant?

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@Ahab apparently @Pazuzu isn't a reading man. So. I'll. Use. Short. Sentences. I. Already. Said. Don't. Rage. Through. Doors. This. Thread. Is. Aimed. For. Making. Changes. For. The. Betterment. Of. Game. Play. In. General. For. All. Skill. Levels.

As I've said earlier, I have killed 16 Jason's in 2 weekends worth of play. I haven't done 8 in a row yet but if you'd like video proof I'm sure I can arrange that for as many Jason kills as I can get in a row. Especially with all the ps plus noobs. And if you like, I'll only use cheap shot hits that shouldn't be possible, just to show you how easy it is.

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6 minutes ago, Somethin Cool said:

@Ahab apparently @Pazuzu isn't a reading man. So. I'll. Use. Short. Sentences. I. Already. Said. Don't. Rage. Through. Doors. This. Thread. Is. Aimed. For. Making. Changes. For. The. Betterment. Of. Game. Play. In. General. For. All. Skill. Levels.

Well actually, now this is more confusing. ?

Quote

As I've said earlier, I have killed 16 Jason's in 2 weekends worth of play. I haven't done 8 in a row yet but if you'd like video proof I'm sure I can arrange that for as many Jason kills as I can get in a row. Especially with all the ps plus noobs. And if you like, I'll only use cheap shot hits that shouldn't be possible, just to show you how easy it is.

You should do it! Sounds like a lot of fun! Only cheap impossible shots sounds like it would make for a great YouTube video regardless. 

Good luck! 

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16 minutes ago, Pazuzu said:
Quote

 

 You should do it! Sounds like a lot of fun! Only cheap impossible shots sounds like it would make for a great YouTube video regardless. 

Sounds a lot like clubbing baby seals to me. But thanks for trolling...

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1 minute ago, Somethin Cool said:

Sounds a lot like clubbing baby seals to me. But thanks for trolling...

I'm serious. I loved that video that one dude posted where he does all the cool bank shots with the flare gun. If you can do some crazy cool stunts when killing Jason why would anyone not want to see that? 

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@Pazuzu Lmfao I guess I should have used smaller sentences. I said cheap shots not trick shots. Cheap shots like  2 players chain stunning Jason to demask him. Or hitting Jason for the demask while he's coming out of any door breaking animation including raging through doors. Or any other time when he can't defend himself against it because he's locked into some bullshit animation. Nobody wants to watch that...

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@Pazuzu Many posts can become a giant wall of text just to get a point across without a great many questions as to what you mean by a one sentence statement. It can also be required when responding to someone with many points and you would like to address each one of them, or responding to several other people's posts.
   When someone has multiple points, I like to address each one of them... No one said you had to read the entire thing... but if you don't want to read the whole thing, you can easily miss something relevant to the one point you address from that post.

    Think of how many sentences it would take you to explain how to achieve a correct answer to the extremely simple question of 1+1 to someone that has no understanding of, and has never even attempted a math question. Everything in life beyond 1+1 becomes exponentially more difficult to explain to anyone who does not already understand what you are talking about.
    Never be afraid to read... or learn stuff... or even write stuff. We all still have a lot to learn about a great many things... no matter how old we are.

   Exaggeration can be pretty easy to recognize when you understand as much or more or even not quite as much as the person doing the exaggeration.... and you are correct, just because someone on the internet says something does not make it true. This also applies to conversations with people in the same room as you. But some of us humans are actually honest... the truth hurts, and seems more upsetting to people than when they are lied to, but the lie was what they really wanted to hear. I question everything... as should everyone else.
   These days, even video evidence is questionable. 
    I have been on dedicated servers since I bought the game just over a year ago... I play on PC.

   Also... no offence taken... and I apologize if I in some way offended you.

@Somethin Cool Yup... I know... But I got a good laugh out of that whole short sentence thing you posted.
   I hope you are not too hard on the new guys playing Jason... They have no idea what they are in for... yet.

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@Ahab I just saved a low level Jason from getting killed by running the sweater girl down with the car. I felt bad for the kid because half the lobby chain stunned his mask off so I did him a favor on my way out.?

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1 hour ago, Somethin Cool said:

@Ahab I just saved a low level Jason from getting killed by running the sweater girl down with the car. I felt bad for the kid because half the lobby chain stunned his mask off so I did him a favor on my way out.?

   Now that was funny... I bet the hunters were full of salt.

   I forgot to ask you about your time machine... To travel in time to a specific place and time... we must also travel through space, not just time. How did you overcome the problem of travelling the distance to where in space the earth actually was back in 1989? Our entire solar system has travelled quite far since then.
   Without anti-gravity to nullify the effects of mass and inertia on speed, a vehicle could not travel faster than light. Let alone the time vs. speed variable... and the tyranny of the rocket equation... among other things... so it could take a long time to reach that point in space. With our current (publicly known) level of technology, this can still prove to be rather difficult to achieve. Although Nasa has had the equations for creating a warp field since the late 80's... I don't think they have proven that time can actually stay outside of the space/time continuum inside the field yet... unless there is "gasp"... something they are not telling us. A working warp field would nullify the whole time vs speed thingy, or if not nullify, at least make it manageable beyond the slowdown of time to a stop for the vehicle and all of its contents (including passengers) when you reach light speed.
   Wormholes are still an option, but how to overcome the power consumption required without using up all of the energy from a star is somewhat of a conundrum. The nearest star other than our own sun is pretty far away, and we kind of need our own sun. Manipulation of where and when the wormhole's other side opens is another problem... which would require a whole lot more power, and the math involved is mind boggling to say the least. The forces that a vehicle would have to endure while travelling through the wormhole present some big problems as well.

    I am genuinely curious as to how you worked around the problems I mentioned...

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6 minutes ago, Ahab said:

   Now that was funny... I bet the hunters were full of salt.

   I forgot to ask you about your time machine... To travel in time to a specific place and time... we must also travel through space, not just time. How did you overcome the problem of travelling the distance to where in space the earth actually was back in 1989? Our entire solar system has travelled quite far since then.
   Without anti-gravity to nullify the effects of mass and inertia on speed, a vehicle could not travel faster than light. Let alone the time vs. speed variable... and the tyranny of the rocket equation... among other things... so it could take a long time to reach that point in space. With our current (publicly known) level of technology, this can still prove to be rather difficult to achieve. Although Nasa has had the equations for creating a warp field since the late 80's... I don't think they have proven that time can actually stay outside of the space/time continuum inside the field yet... unless there is "gasp"... something they are not telling us. A working warp field would nullify the whole time vs speed thingy, or if not nullify, at least make it manageable beyond the slowdown of time to a stop for the vehicle and all of its contents (including passengers) when you reach light speed.
   Wormholes are still an option, but how to overcome the power consumption required without using up all of the energy from a star is somewhat of a conundrum. The nearest star other than our own sun is pretty far away, and we kind of need our own sun. Manipulation of where and when the wormhole's other side opens is another problem... which would require a whole lot more power, and the math involved is mind boggling to say the least. The forces that a vehicle would have to endure while travelling through the wormhole present some big problems as well.

    I am genuinely curious as to how you worked around the problems I mentioned...

IDK, i just use my ruby slippers...??

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2 hours ago, badassgixxer05 said:

IDK, i just use my ruby slippers...??

   Those sound expensive... and I thought they only took you to Kansas, which really limits your vacation options.
   How do you get those tiny little slippers on your feet anyway? My feet are monstrously large compared to most people I know. I doubt they would be any use to me... but I might be able to use them to focus a beam of light that I will call a "laser."

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 @Ahab it's the flux capacitor. Takes care of all that. See I got the idea after I hit my head on the toilet seat. It's a long story...

If you said you've solved 7 out of 10 of the world's problems a philosopher would spend the rest of his life asking himself "how do we solve the other 3?"  I would say " Damn. That's the 7 I was gonna solve." and move on with my day. 

@Ahab Edit: the"hunters", a level 44 Tommy and a level 43 Vanessa rage quit right after I mowed Vanessa down. In all fairness I did honk. Right after I ran her over... That's what they get for thinking they can take over my lobby. I let them get 2 in a row before that. But the 3rd time was not a charm. At least not for them...

Zombieland rule #32:

Enjoy the little things

Edited by Somethin Cool

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