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Jason needs to be immune to stun while raging through doors/walls

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8 hours ago, Fair Play said:

I won't say he shouldn't be able to be stunned in Rage Mode. I'd say almost impossible. Make it a lower percent chance.

This is in some parenting handbook I'm sure. I have said these words to my daughters many times.

The last I checked, Pong is legitimately considered an arcade video game.

80%-90% reduction would be great.

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1 hour ago, sedaiv said:

80%-90% reduction would be great.

I was thinking more of a stun chance reduction by 75-80% when in Rage Mode. There should still be a mild chance.

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@Somethin Cool
1: Yes... I have been gaming since before you were born... and pong is not a board game, dice game or pen and paper game... it was the 1st video game and I remember it well. At the time, there was nothing else like it... until it made lots of money and the video gaming industry was born.... do your research. The Atari console came after pong was a success and more games were produced... but yes, I had one of those too.
    I wish I was only 26... 40 sound good too... I remember those far off days well... such fun was had back then. I know a great many people, young and old that play video games... Yes, even older than me... I know a few people in their late 80's that are still playing video games today (mostly golf or fishing games, but a couple like to play Call of Duty)… Also... they do sometimes forget which button does what. Getting old sucks... you may yet discover this truism for yourself.

2: I am not sure how you killed your first Jason in 1989... we are talking about a game that is only about a year and a half old (last time I checked, this year is 2018... wait, I will check again... yup, its 2018)… We are not talking about one of the old Friday the 13th games, they are totally different from this game on every level (excluding the title and the names of certain characters).
   At least you have goals... but your point on how many Jasons you have killed only proves one of two points. Either Jason is way too easy to kill (which has been acknowledged by most people that actually have played the game for some time)… or you have not really killed so many Jasons… both cannot be true as they would be a direct contradiction to each other... and some of us know what contradiction means.

3: I play on steam... where very few players above level 10 (maybe up to level 20) will waste a single strike from their weapon when Jason is blocking... of course, this is only considering the people I play against in quick play and with friends... or with some friends and randoms… or … well, you get the point, I would hope.

   Many people do not like the new grab's width, pretty much everyone thinks the length is fine... but most agree that it is too easy to punish Jason on a missed grab. I personally do not have a problem with the new grab... all things take some getting used to after all. No one here (or anywhere else for that matter) agrees with everything anyone says... not even when presented with facts.... and you can prove anything is true with facts... Personally, I will side with the verifiable. 
   Where did I say I don't like the fact that Jason can be killed?  It is too easy to do it... that is my only problem. Easy = boring... But I will tell people that complain about dying in this or any other game to play checkers if they can't handle it... This game that we speak of actually has achievements (or trophies for you console players) for dying a lot as a counselor... this should be a dead giveaway that you may die in this game often. Pun intended. It is supposed to be hard to kill Jason... some of us like a challenge.
   Personally, I don't run away when I play Jason and this has got me killed in game... if I had run away, I would never have been killed in the game.

   Sucker punch is not the problem, certain weapons actually stun Jason on nearly every hit without any perks to give a bonus to stun chance. It can be extremely rare to not stun Jason when hitting him with a bat for instance, but this does not ring true for every weapon. If you have been playing this game since 1989 as you claim... you would not need this explained to you... and don't call yourself an idiot... name calling is childish.

   Sorry for the essay, but you made points... I had counter points. I kept them brief.

@Fair Play Those words should be in all parenting handbooks... I have met very few people that call themselves adults that actually understand that statement... the younger they are, the less likely that they "get it", particularly these days.
   I don't have any kids of my own, but I do have a brain in my head... and the number of stepchildren I have had over the years would astonish you.

   I like the idea of Jason being stunned less in rage mode... it makes sense. I am not against the percentages you suggest either. This is not the first time that idea has been mentioned, but that is the highest percentage I think I have seen suggested... and may be argued against by many. Perhaps a total rework of the stun chances on all weapons is called for? Such a high percentage of stun reduction would make many weapons hardly even worth picking up in the opinions of most players.... and I agree that there should always be a "mild" chance for a stun (but not when he is blocking of course)... but perhaps the lowest chance to stun should still be a "little" better than "mild."
 

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12 hours ago, Ahab said:

@Fair Play Those words should be in all parenting handbooks... I have met very few people that call themselves adults that actually understand that statement... the younger they are, the less likely that they "get it", particularly these days.
   I don't have any kids of my own, but I do have a brain in my head... and the number of stepchildren I have had over the years would astonish you.

   I like the idea of Jason being stunned less in rage mode... it makes sense. I am not against the percentages you suggest either. This is not the first time that idea has been mentioned, but that is the highest percentage I think I have seen suggested... and may be argued against by many. Perhaps a total rework of the stun chances on all weapons is called for? Such a high percentage of stun reduction would make many weapons hardly even worth picking up in the opinions of most players.... and I agree that there should always be a "mild" chance for a stun (but not when he is blocking of course)... but perhaps the lowest chance to stun should still be a "little" better than "mild."
 

I saw 80-90% suggested. I took it down a bit, as I thought a 1-in-4 or 1-5 stun chance after Jason goes into Rage Mode would be more sensible. Maybe  adjusting the numbers a bit more is in order. I agree that a rework of the stun mechanic is long overdue.

The number of stepchildren you've had, that sounds quite intriguing. Outside of the 5 (soon to be 6) that I have, I'd stopped short of adopting the neighborhood kids. My daughter's friends are over so often, they might as well be my kids. I look forward to the golden years, when I'll still be gaming with my children, grandchildren, and my unofficial adoptees as well. I'll be sure to take good care of that brain in my own head in the meantime.

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@Ahab wow are you serious? obviously I invented time travel. That's how I killed my first Jason  in 1989. SMDH. And I'm pretty sure if you read your post, you're the one that called me an idiot. "Any idiot can kill Jason. I think you've proven that..." Or words to that effect.

If sucker punch doesn't have anything to do with chain stunning Jason and teabagging him on steam then that must be great. But I'll guarantee you it's one of the preferred perks for trolls on PS4. 

The problem with this game is Jason just isn't scary anymore. No stun resistance is going to change that. I'll put a battery in with my dying breath because sitting around waiting for the next game doesn't bother me at all. And if that battery install leads to the car escaping, then I've won. 

And I can tell you Jason is still plenty op against new players. I can clear a lobby of ps plus noobs in 8 minutes or less. But the problem is there aren't enough new players. And there sure as hell won't ever be if Jason is turned into an unstoppable force. ("But he is..." No. I'm pretty sure he's been stopped in every single movie. Ever.) 

Now back to the original point of the post  "Jason needs to be immune to stun while raging through doors".  He is. It's when he gets to the other side that he gets stunned. Just because of the animation. So tag on 2 seconds of stun immunity starting when the door animation finishes and don't touch anything else. Kinda like they did for counselors exiting cars. Problem solved. 

 

 

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@Fair Play I missed that 80-90%... but I see it now. 1-4 or 1-5 stun chance sounds fair to me, and would make the unstoppable killing machine almost seem to actually be unstoppable.... People tend to forget that 1 in 4 in still 25 in 100.... Math is cool... it is the key to the universe after all... Jason still needs to be stunned now and again... but it does not need to be anywhere near as great of a chance as it is now. 
   The real problem with raging through doors though is the indefensible hit towards demasking... This can be achieved easily by people very new to the game at the end of not only the door crashing animation, but after any stun animation and even after the animations of the executions and environment kills. I learned to do this in my first day of playing the game... but I feel it is cheap and try to stay away from it. This is what makes it so easy to kill Jason and I see it happen a lot. The number of chances to do this is ridiculously high with the amount of stuns a competent or even a very skilled Jason can easily suffer in a match... When people try to say Jason should block to avoid this, I completely agree... but he is not able, which most of these people seem to ignore and pretend that Jason has no indefensible positions... As long as getting into block remains slowed, it is useless in combat to anyone that does not have Jedi-like reflexes as you have to start getting into block before the counselor's swing animation even starts... which was what made an epic swift attacker perk so useful before the block was slowed.
   As I have suggested before, Jason needs the ability to block when coming out of these animations so he no longer has an indefensible position. This would be balanced to the counselors, who have no indefensible positions... and make the Jason kill require actual skill with the combat mechanics to accomplish... as long as that Jason is at least competent. After all, it is still seven against one and people will still gang up on him... but without an indefensible hit like this, demasking suddenly becomes and actual risk to the counselor.
    If this were implemented, I might even start trying to kill Jason again without another player asking me for help... Overcoming the challenge of something that is actually difficult to accomplish actually feels good. Being able to do something easily that pretty much everyone else can already do is not an accomplishment at all... as pretty much anyone can already do it... and it is certainly not worth bragging about.

   Five children are certainly a handful... but soon to be six? All I can say is.... Congratulations to you and yours!!!
   All the kids in my life are all grown up now and the headaches of those days are not missed... but it was not all headaches. There are some very intelligent and good natured kids among them... I still call them kids... old humans like me can still call someone that much younger a kid and get away with it... but I still have a way to go before I reach what people call... the golden years. I am not sure why they call them the golden years, but the first thing that pops to mind is not pleasant.
   

    

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21 minutes ago, Ahab said:

As I have suggested before, Jason needs the ability to block when coming out of these animations so he no longer has an indefensible position. This would be balanced to the counselors, who have no indefensible positions... and make the Jason kill require actual skill with the combat mechanics to accomplish... as long as that Jason is at least competent. After all, it is still seven against one and people will still gang up on him... but without an indefensible hit like this, demasking suddenly becomes and actual risk to the counselor.
    If this were implemented, I might even start trying to kill Jason again without another player asking me for help... Overcoming the challenge of something that is actually difficult to accomplish actually feels good. Being able to do something easily that pretty much everyone else can already do is not an accomplishment at all... as pretty much anyone can already do it... and it is certainly not worth bragging about.

  Five children are certainly a handful... but soon to be six? All I can say is.... Congratulations to you and yours!!!
   All the kids in my life are all grown up now and the headaches of those days are not missed... but it was not all headaches. There are some very intelligent and good natured kids among them... I still call them kids... old humans like me can still call someone that much younger a kid and get away with it... but I still have a way to go before I reach what people call... the golden years. I am not sure why they call them the golden years, but the first thing that pops to mind is not pleasant.

Math is the key to the universe. An after animation block would help in a lot of situations. I tend to hold back on an inexperienced Jason, as it's like taking candy from a baby.

Child number 6 won't be bad. The other 5 are a lot older, so they'll help out as needed. I have a lot of fond memories of mentoring children that have crossed my path over the years.

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@Fair Play An after animation block should probably be the only time he can block outside of combat stance. But it would solve quite a few problems. I am still really hoping they revert the speed of getting into block to what it was before the engine upgrade... only then will it be viable in combat once again for those of us that are not psychic.
   I try to help out new players when I can, but I can't give a new (or veteran) Jason player advice until after the game. I don't bully experienced players, let alone the new players... it is totally unnecessary to even fight Jason unless you want to kill him after all. I had a part 7 Jason last night who must have been new... had him confounded and rather frustrated chasing me around a fence... an easy kitting distraction while the last counselor alive waited out the timer for the cops and escaped. I thought Part 7 unlocked much later than it does... he was pretty new still. He finally figured out he could smash through the fence, by accident... only then I mentioned that I was going to tell him about that after the game was over... but he was already pretty frustrated and left as soon as the game was over.
   I am sure you will do fine with kid number six... after the first five, you are probably getting pretty good with that. Health and happiness to the immanent arrival!

Not wanting to double post... sorry in advance, but there are a few points to address... again.

@Somethin Cool I am pretty sure... if you read your post that I was responding to with the quote you mentioned, it started with some pretty condescending remarks that sound like they came from a teenager that thinks he knows everything. When someone has a condescending statement for someone else, only an idiot would not expect a condescending remark back. Also, if you actually know how to use the language we are conversing in.... "I think you have proven that" does not translate to me calling you an idiot... even with the sentence that came before it.
   Most people here are actually pretty good people... but no one appreciates the condescending comments. Also, telling people to block with the current state of block in combat really makes you sound like you are either brand new to the game, or have not played since before the engine upgrade. I have already explained why in a previous post.

   Many people use sucker punch on steam as well. It ups the chance for those weapons that don't stun on 99% of hits without it. If you plan on only using a bat... sucker punch is a waste of a slot... Even with sucker punch a bat can still fail to stun Jason, but it is very rare... nothing is 100% in this game.

   Jason never was and never will be truly scary in this game for one reason.... its a game. No harm actually comes to the people playing it... so there is no reason to be fearful. Concern for the well being of the counselor you are playing is another matter... but many players don't care if they live or die. Many others bitch and cry every time they die in a match. The stun resistance we are talking about here, and three or four other active threads at this point in time is more to make it difficult to kill Jason again and end the piñata Jason parties... which the general population here at least all agree are problems... if you do not agree these are problems, then you are in the minority here... The problem is no one can agree on how to do it, and the devs will implement what they want to implement anyway. Shifty recently stated that they recognize Jason is considered weak and are looking into it (not a direct quote)... It is out of our control either way, but we still talk about things like this here... just for something to do.
    I also don't care if I die in the game. If anything I did helps the team in any way... then I did my job. There is no "I" in teamwork, but there may be an "eye" on the floor, or on the wall... perhaps even in a drawer. Its not about winning, this game was never meant to be competitive... but there is always people that think it is competitive and claim they are the best there ever was, or something to that effect.

   Of course Jason is OP against new players... this actually goes without saying. 8 minutes to wipe a lobby of noobs is nothing to be proud of... many people here claim to have done it much quicker than that. You did say you play on PS4... and you have not noticed the new players that so may others have been talking about in these very forums?... The servers were actually overloaded for a while from what I read... if you think that is dying, I suggest you google "dying" for the actual meaning of the word.
   Also... of course Jason was stopped in every movie. It has a lot to do with story structure and the fact that no sequel was ever guaranteed, or planned when writing ANY of the scripts... So a resolution is required for the movie to end. One more point on this... when you change mediums... book to movie... movie to game... things do not translate well and some things have to change for it to work. I could explain these points in great detail to you, but... this post is getting long already. The point here is... the devs stated long ago that their design of the Jason kill mechanic was meant to have a Jason kill 1 in 75 games or so... it was meant to be very difficult to do. It is not and needs some work.

   Finally... your solution to the topic at hand solves nothing... Jason being stunned coming through a door is just part of the larger problems. These things have already been explained as well... in this thread... and in a great many other threads.
    

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You're right nobody appreciates the condescending comments@ahab. Yet you've been throwing them my way for awhile now. You sound like a smart guy. Possibly a condescending a-hole towards people that have different opinions, or play styles, than yourself, but a smart guy nonetheless (please feel free not to correct me if I'm wrong because I really don't care)...  But I'm sure you can agree that the only way to really stop the Jason killing is to take it away altogether. 

Maybe you like to demask Jason by taking cheap shots when hes coming through doors but that's not usually how it goes when I do it. The noobs and even some more experienced Jason's that should know better will happily square up and trade blows because they lack situational awareness (I said it again) and the rest of them can be demasked by either: a) protecting a counselor trying to accomplish an objective (Jason is too busy worrying about the counselor messing up the gas to notice me and my machete) or: b) go to the shack with Tommy and the sweater girl while Jason still has his mask, (he's just annoyed at this point because he still has his mask on so he's more than happy to pop in and try to take out that pesky counselor that stole mom's sweater) demask him with one or two hits, and get the kill. Now unless you take all that away, you can't really stop a good Jason hunter from killing Jason, right?

If you think it's easy to kill 100 Jasons as Tommy I invite you to try it. Even if everything  comes together as planned, something can still go wrong that'll strip you of the kill. We're talking 100 Jarvis kills out of thousands of matches. Not exactly the best success rate. 

Can you make it harder? Absolutely. Double his hit points. Take the stun away altogether. I use a machete anyway, so I  don't care about stun. That's not going to stop me from trying it every time I play. My play style is to be the hero and kill the Jason. Or die trying. If yours is taking out all that built up agression by choking the life out of every single counselor, then that's cool by me. It's your game man...

8 hours ago, Somethin Cool said:

Now back to the original point of the post  "Jason needs to be immune to stun while raging through doors".  He is. It's when he gets to the other side that he gets stunned. Just because of the animation. So tag on 2 seconds of stun immunity starting when the door animation finishes and don't touch anything else. Kinda like they did for counselors exiting cars. Problem solved. 

         ^^one of several solutions^^

Finally, I've offered several different solutions to fix this stun while raging through doors "epidemic" which was what everyone was originally talking about.  You were just too busy thinking of cheap insults to throw my way, overlooked them searching for reasons to argue with me,  or you just don't care what I have to say.

And by the way I don't agree that there's a problem being stunned while raging through doors. Even though it's fast and it looks  cool, it's a stupid way to enter a cabin and should only be used when you know there's nobody waiting to stun you on the other side. Again maybe it's different with steam but on PS4 you can still use your weapon to breach doors even if you're in rage mode.

 

 

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This is my personal opinion but I think only the things Jason has no control over should be changed. Everything else seems to just make him idiot or noob proof.

If Jason makes a mistake or does something dumb, he should be able to be punished for it just like counselors. If Jason misses a grab or decides to spam it, he can no longer get away that easily and that's a good thing. Yes, the new players will get beaten a lot but they will learn the game eventually. They really shouldn't buff Jason just to make it easier for the new Jason players.

What do you mean by things Jason has no control over?

  1. Getting stunned whilst trying to block but block not engaging fast enough: bring back instant block
  2. Taking damage right after a stun or kill: a Buggzy can take his mask off after just one kill (Hit, dodge, hit again): damage/stun resistance for a few seconds after a pk or normal stun will most likely fix this
  3. Getting stunned right after landing a hit: counselors have an animation when they get hit by Jason but it can be cancelled by a swing and is too short, I suggest allowing counselors to run away but not attack for a few seconds so Jason doesn't get smashed after every slash
  4. Getting stunned because a grab went straight through a counselor: increase the width of the grab
  5. Not being able to grab kill someone in a group: grab > meat shield > choke was a great way to eliminate groups before the grab update. Making the pick up animation faster and allowing Jason to meat shield again will really make a difference here

These points are what I hate the most about playing Jason. I recently had a horrible experience against 7 counselors, all of which where lvl 150. I was able to kill all but 2 and it was nearly impossible to kill them because block wouldn't activate fast enough so every time I did slash the tommy, he would immediately stun me. Shifting away before the hit would work but I couldn't do that every time due to the cooldown. I actually managed to get a quick block at some point and it really makes a big difference, I injured tommy with ease thanks to it but then I just got stunned again because block wouldn't activate fast enough anymore after that. He healed up straight away and I had to start all over. 

Reducing stun chance in general isn't that good of an idea, I've often been the last person alive as a low stamina counselor and being able to bait a Jason and get a hit off is almost a necessity. I know how to mange my stamina but if you are heading to the cops or there are no cabins in sight then you're gonna run out at some point, especially if you have to doge a few shifts along the way.

I don't mind a stun after raging through a door either because you can actively avoid it by breaking the door down normally or raging through when the counselor isn't standing right behind the damn thing.

Playing the game just to beat up/kill Jason has become a legit strategy at this point because escaping becomes boring quickly for high level players. Back in december I was a Deborah that escaped 2 minutes into the round with the boat and waited 18 minutes for the game to end. I eventually got really bored of this because it is simply too easy to do. I don't really enjoy beating up low level Jasons, sure it can be hilarious to some degree but I'd rather have a fight with a high level Jason just to get a challenge. Killing high level Jasons is really rewarding as they always run away but then come to taunt you because you can't catch them. And every time they come to taunt, they die almost immediately and the screen fades to black because they left lol.

 

 

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@noahvt I do like the new grab animation but I also miss how easy it used to be to use someone as a human shield. I also don't think an overall reduction to stun is a good approach but maybe a stun chance reduction tied to the clock from the time Jason enters rage mode until your chance of stunning Jason gets down to 20 percent or so could help give people a reason to accomplish objectives and escape faster.

@Ahab I noticed my previous comment didn't tag you correctly. Wouldn't want you to miss it. 

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On 10/14/2018 at 9:07 AM, Somethin Cool said:

By the time they get the mask off Jason should be in rage mode anyway. But saying most weapons shouldn't stun him is ridiculous. Maybe if you're having that much trouble it's simply because the counselor is simply a better player. Remember practice makes perfect.

 

This isn't in regards to bad playing. Blocking only works for the first hit and then a subsequent hit stuns you and knocks you on your ass for 10 seconds. Then, to continue off that, if you slash anyone, they are able to counter attack much faster than Jason can swing. This makes no sense and is utter bullshit in a game where Jason is meant to be OP compared to the counselors, there is no way 2 counselors, no matter how talented, should be able to do jack diddle against Jason worth noting.

I'll restate a moment from my early days before the "stun" issue was "fixed".

During one game, myself and 4 other counselors were up against a rank 2 Part 3 Jason. We decided we were going to attack him and beat him up, 5 vs 1. We all grabbed weapons and got near the boathouse on crystal lake and first hit, boom, he goes down. Woo, no prob, lets slap him as he gets up. Our weapons hit him but bounced off, and Jason started swinging his axe, hitting 2-3 of us with each swing, getting at least three swings off before another strike knocked him down. he got up again and started swinging.

By the time Jason was stunned this time, three people were dead, the other two were limping away and were soon two more notches on Jason's Axe.

I miss that absolute power you were being up against. Now, just two teabaggers can keep slapping jason without penalty and all you get is MAYBE one swing if you're not standing like a statue. or RUNNING AWAY from them. 

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@Daneasaur I miss a lot of things about the old Jason. And being able to stun Jason at all is probably one of the dumbest things they've put in this game. But taking it away or reducing it to a point where nobody would bother trying to fight back isn't really solving anything either. Where's the fun in going 8/8 on a lobby that's just standing around waiting to get slaughtered?

Good example: show me an experienced counselor dumb enough to try escaping in the boat now that Jason can hear it start. Unless you're playing against a noob Jason, or you have a death wish, you're not even going to bother trying, right? I know I wouldn't. 

I'm not saying they didn't mess up post update. They totally did. That new grab and ruining block gave more reason than ever to beat on Jason. I'm sure they're not going to give his human shield capable grab back but it'd be nice if they'd fix block and speed up Jason's swing. Also I don't know why there's such a long cool down period on throwing knives. I get that Jason's not a ninja but it'd be nice to throw multiples a bit faster. 

The problem was, is, and always will be the balance between making either Jason or the counselors too OP. Make Jason strong enough to decimate the pro counselors and they will surely complain. Make Jason too weak like he is now, so any inexperienced a-hole can get away, and the pro Jason players will complain because the pro counselors are making him their bitch. Listening to the back and forth whining between counselor and Jason mains, experienced or not, has to be the leading cause of migraines with the devs.

I'm honestly to the point where I wish they'd just pick whichever way they want to go with this crap and just leave him the hell alone.

 

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14 hours ago, Somethin Cool said:

 

@Ahab I noticed my previous comment didn't tag you correctly. Wouldn't want you to miss it. 

   Thanks... I may have missed that otherwise.

   I only use condescending remarks towards those that use them first... whether it is directed at me or someone else does not matter. As to me being an asshole... I can give that word new meaning... but only towards people that are assholes first.
   I would agree the only way to stop people from killing Jason would be to remove it from the game... but I have never suggested removing it from the game, nor do I remember anyone else suggesting that... although someone may have at some point, I have not read every post from every person in these forums... nor do I intend to.... So I am not sure why you even bring this up.

   I don't use the indefensible demasking hits to demask Jason, but I have in the past... just like everyone else I have ever played with... I have, however, witnessed a great many Jason kills in matches I have been in. I even participate sometimes, if that is what everyone else wants to work towards... You would be surprised how few of these kills I have seen in game didn't used the indefensible strikes to demask him, and these were the only strikes landed that would have counted towards demasking in almost all of these matches.
  There are some players that are very skilled with the combat mechanics and don't need to do this... I am glad to hear you don't use it either.... and I never said the Jason killing should stop, if you have read any of the above, or other posts of mine in topics like this... my suggestions are merely to make killing Jason more difficult, like it was meant to be. If you do not use these tactics, then why are you against the suggested changes?... It would literally change nothing for you, less stuns would not matter at all if you don't use this tactic and neither would blocking coming out of one of these animations... but it would make it more difficult to pull of the J-kill for people that do not have enough practice with the combat system... which, once again... is how it was meant to be.

  I probably have killed more than one hundred Jasons as Tommy... but I never kept track, so it could be less than that as well. I got bored with it to be honest, its the same old, same old with every match. I find that attempting the escape poses more challenges for me at this point and very few matches are alike when I play this way... sometimes I just wander around and help the other players with whatever they are trying to do... but to each his (or her) own.
  I have seen many squads of Jason hunters that are only doing it to try to piss people off and think it is funny... these are the rude ones, or what we call... assholes. I never saw a need to piss anyone off when I was actually trying to kill Jason more often than I bother with now. Most of the Jason players that I have seen die are pretty polite about it as they die and say "good game" when people are not being insulting jerks towards them. Most of the salty Jason's that die had a good reason to be salty... the idiots they were playing against were trying their damnedest to be as rude as possible. I could never understand the lack of logic these idiots have being assholes to someone that will be their team mate in the very next match... but then I remember... they are assholes.

   As long as the indefensible strikes are in game, doubling Jason's hit points will not help. He can be stunned over and over, and each stun leads to a strike against demasking that he can do nothing about... but as I said, my suggestions would not make it harder than it already is for people that do not use these tactics and would not even affect their gameplay. But I don't think taking the stuns away altogether is a good idea either and have never suggested that... but have argued against it on many occasions.
  The number of times Jason can be stunned in game is ridiculous... the piñata parties are ridiculous and most people agree on this, except of course, the people doing it. You say this will not effect your gameplay... but still you argue against it.
   I don't need to take my aggressions out on people in a video game. I punch walls and ceilings thousands of times each day (for decades now) with a ten pound screw gun and throw full sheets of drywall at people across the room for fun... I also love the legal destruction of other people's property that demolition jobs allow me to do... some of the most fun I have ever had at work was smashing concrete walls apart, smashing down heavy fire doors… and anything else they will let me destroy.... and when I am done with that... I build new stuff.

   What I meant by your brief stun immunity idea not helping was simple... It still leaves the indefensible demasking hit open for the easy demasking. It is a great idea for helping with the piñata Jason problem, if you are suggesting that he gets this immunity after every stun and every animation he has... But it will not make it any harder to kill Jason.

   You say in the post I was pointed towards where you miss-tagged me, close to the bottom, and I quote: "And by the way I don't agree that there's a problem being stunned while raging through doors."... But... in a previous post in this very thread, in reply to @HuDawg's earlier post... and I quote: "Although I do agree Jason should be immune to stun while raging through doors"... You do remember the word... contradiction... do you not? The rest of the world does.
   For what raging through doors was meant to be, leaving him open to an indefensible hit or stun has the opposite effect. If counselors could no longer stun or get a free demasking hit when he rages through doors, then we would be left with the effect that it was meant to have.

    Looking at your last post, just above this one (and I will only comment on this one quote from that post)… and I quote: "show me an experienced counselor dumb enough to try escaping in the boat now that Jason can hear it start. Unless you're playing against a noob Jason, or you have a death wish, you're not even going to bother trying right?"...
    Well, I can tell you, I have escaped in the boat a great many times since Jason was given the ability to hear the boat start... lost count after the first night. I didn't play last night, but the night before... out of five attempts to escape in the boat, I got away four times... all of these games were against well seasoned Jasons I have played against before. The fifth time I went back to give a ride to someone who asked nicely and Jason got us both. If this person did not have an interaction glitch when trying to get into the boat (it did not give them the 'e' prompt)… then we both would have gotten away. It does not concern me that I died... I was trying to help someone else, these are the risks we take... But if four out of five success rate is "dumb" in your opinion... then you should change your opinion, the math is not with you on this one.

 

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@Ahab Apologies for being a dick but you weren't helping with the "how are  we supposed to get through doors if we don't rage through them" comment. And usually someone tells me they've been gaming since before I was born ends up being about 26 and ends up calling me old and telling me to get a life, so I thought that's where you were headed with that.  Keep breaking the stereotypes. You're older than dirt (I'm joking don't get salty) you're in construction, and you play videogames. That makes you the most interesting person I've run into so far. Pretty cool ?

it's wishful thinking, not a contradiction, to think Jason should be unstunnable anywhere unless it's the hit that takes his mask off. It goes against Jason's character completely. And sitting around for ten seconds listening to mommy tell me it'll be ok is right up there with my least favorite things about this game. But it's a game with two vastly different objectives based on whether you're Jason or a counselor. So there's gotta be balance. If I'm not mistaken that's why they changed Jason to begin with. Too many bad Jason's could spam block and slash their way through camp. So they changed it. But they took too wild a swing in the other direction and now Jason is as much of a pinata as he was when every counselor had a seemingly endless supply of pocket knives.

I'm gonna have to disagree on the boat. Maybe your Jasons weren't as good as you thought. Maybe you're a master at timing Jason's morph. Maybe they let you go cause you're a fun guy to play with. I don't know but I can't imagine too many good Jason's that give up a guaranteed free kill or two.

My latest idea: how about giving Jason a random 1-4 second stun immunity for after he's stunned by anything and even after raging through doors (although I don't have that much of a problem with this one because I don't do it but apparently other people do so I'm ok with it.) Then speed up his swing and cool down on throwing knives but leave grab and block alone for balance. 

For the counselors start punishing them for wasted hits. That weapon breaks in so many swings regardless of what it hits (other counselors, Jason stunned or not, trees, walls, etc.) That should balance things out and make it harder to use Jason for a punching bag while still being able to punish him for making a stupid move (spam grabbing or whatever)

 

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On 10/16/2018 at 9:00 AM, Somethin Cool said:

@Daneasaur I miss a lot of things about the old Jason. And being able to stun Jason at all is probably one of the dumbest things they've put in this game. But taking it away or reducing it to a point where nobody would bother trying to fight back isn't really solving anything either. Where's the fun in going 8/8 on a lobby that's just standing around waiting to get slaughtered?

Good example: show me an experienced counselor dumb enough to try escaping in the boat now that Jason can hear it start. Unless you're playing against a noob Jason, or you have a death wish, you're not even going to bother trying, right? I know I wouldn't. 

I'm not saying they didn't mess up post update. They totally did. That new grab and ruining block gave more reason than ever to beat on Jason. I'm sure they're not going to give his human shield capable grab back but it'd be nice if they'd fix block and speed up Jason's swing. Also I don't know why there's such a long cool down period on throwing knives. I get that Jason's not a ninja but it'd be nice to throw multiples a bit faster. 

The problem was, is, and always will be the balance between making either Jason or the counselors too OP. Make Jason strong enough to decimate the pro counselors and they will surely complain. Make Jason too weak like he is now, so any inexperienced a-hole can get away, and the pro Jason players will complain because the pro counselors are making him their bitch. Listening to the back and forth whining between counselor and Jason mains, experienced or not, has to be the leading cause of migraines with the devs.

I'm honestly to the point where I wish they'd just pick whichever way they want to go with this crap and just leave him the hell alone.

 

Stunning jason should still be a thing, but not to the insane degrees it's at right now.

Everything should stun jason normally, but if Jason is blocking, it's a 360 block and he can just hold it down (only guns, flares, firecrackers, and traps should stun him at this point). This defense is traded for his attack being much slower in combat stance.

Additionally, when Jason IS stunned, you should be running now. Not teabagging, not ready to attack again, but running. The best way to encourage this is to give Jason a cooldown before he can be stunned again, which I said should be anywhere between 5 to 8 seconds once he recovers. 5-8 seconds of no-stun (outside of pocket knives) is plenty of time for Jason to either swing his weapon 2-3 times, or grab a counselor and start a kill animation. This would put emphasis, even on the most "hardcore Jason Killers", to GET AWAY. The idea is to coax the counselor players into being the scared random counselor who isn't guaranteed to survive the "movie". Even the Jason Killers would need more than just 2 people to deal with Jason at this point since it's HIGHLY likely Jason will kill you if you try to stay and fight.

Another thing folks need to remember is how all counselors are now running Thick Skinned and Medic perks. You need to be slashing them more and if they get any sort of opening, they will heal right back up. It's more important than ever to NOT be stunned if you're slashing them, and if you grab one of them, if they don't have a knife, their swing happy buddy will free them. It becomes a losing situation for Jason against just 2 people, which is NOT how this game is supposed to work.

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On 10/16/2018 at 12:46 AM, Ahab said:

@Fair Play An after animation block should probably be the only time he can block outside of combat stance. But it would solve quite a few problems. I am still really hoping they revert the speed of getting into block to what it was before the engine upgrade... only then will it be viable in combat once again for those of us that are not psychic.
   I try to help out new players when I can, but I can't give a new (or veteran) Jason player advice until after the game. I don't bully experienced players, let alone the new players... it is totally unnecessary to even fight Jason unless you want to kill him after all. I had a part 7 Jason last night who must have been new... had him confounded and rather frustrated chasing me around a fence... an easy kitting distraction while the last counselor alive waited out the timer for the cops and escaped. I thought Part 7 unlocked much later than it does... he was pretty new still. He finally figured out he could smash through the fence, by accident... only then I mentioned that I was going to tell him about that after the game was over... but he was already pretty frustrated and left as soon as the game was over.
   I am sure you will do fine with kid number six... after the first five, you are probably getting pretty good with that. Health and happiness to the immanent arrival!

I'm all for a speed adjustment to blocking.

I give out after match advice to those willing to listen, and those that do, seem to improve almost immediately. Helping the new batch of players to get better is the only way to keep things from getting predictable and boring.

Thanks for the kind words. The big day is coming up, and I'll for it. After having 5 girls in a row, it'll be nice to have a son.

18 hours ago, Somethin Cool said:

I'm gonna have to disagree on the boat. Maybe your Jasons weren't as good as you thought. Maybe you're a master at timing Jason's morph. Maybe they let you go cause you're a fun guy to play with. I don't know but I can't imagine too many good Jason's that give up a guaranteed free kill or two.

There are quite a few skilled players that can still escape by boat, despite the ability of it being heard. It's not so much how skilled the Jason is. Good communication and timing is all that's needed. It's harder, yes, but not impossible.

As far as giving up on "easy kills", if the 4-seater is moving with 4 people inside, and the boat has two, I'm going with the numbers. I'd rather lose 2 than 4, but then again, if either gets away, that's on me. If I'm up against a batch of Jason hunters, then neither is going to be an issue.

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@Somethin Cool My first post to you was the same type of condescending I would give to anyone that told someone to learn to use block, or "git gud", or "just don't do that then"... which in themselves are condescending comments... Just fighting fire with fire. I try to keep the level of rude in my condescending comments to a minimum... but it is just in my nature to throw around "smart ass" comments when I feel they are required. I also apologize if my remarks offended you... We can take the rest of it as our own "special" brands of humor from this point on...
    Although I am not quite as old as dirt... I have a distant memory of fending off a Velociraptor with a crow bar made from a pointed stick (I designed it myself). I can also remember that it did not work well as a crowbar until we discovered metallurgy... and based the new metal design on the original pointed stick. Copper and brass bent to easy though... it worked much better after we discovered how to work iron... Those were the days...

    I don't think Jason should be unstunnable at all. But the number of times he can get stunned is ridiculous. Even in the movies, when something like this happened, it was always a "cheap shot" that did it, not a strike he could see coming... Although Jason can block from all directions now, I do not like the fact that he can block hits from behind at all. Hits from behind... or "cheap shots" should stun him at least close to every time (no matter which weapon is used), while hits from the front stun very rarely. But stunning with a similar chance to what it is now after using the sweater (all of us can agree that we can't nerf that stun opportunity, it is fine as it is). As I stated before, more realism makes things better, be they books, movies, games... or whatever. It makes the unbelievable parts easier to accept. I could believe that little Tiffany stunned Jason with a hit from behind without a second thought, no matter what weapon she used... I have seen some pretty small people put down some monstrously large people with one little cheap shot on many occasions in real life. #Cheap Shots Work

   The whole thing with the boat is extremely situational. Many times I have no idea what Jason is up to at the time when I go to start the boat, other times... the team is communicating. When someone tells you Jason just morphed away from them is the perfect time to start the boat and go... if you happen to be nearby and the boat is ready to go. Other times, on maps without narrow canals... and a Jason that is not a +Water Speed comes after you... it is easy to maneuver around him and get him behind you. Only a +Water Speed Jason has any hope of catching the boat at all if he is behind you. The key is not to panic... I have been a passenger in many boats that were only tipped over because the driver panicked. Part 2 Jason can really screw you up with this as his morph regenerates very quickly and he can get ahead of you again once per minute or so. I have dragged out a few boat chases for ten minutes or more while everyone else escaped... Those Jasons must have really wanted that point towards their torpedo badge. Evading Jason in the boat like this is only made possible with the use of Nerves of steel so you don't lose you mini map, and the fact that you can see Jason in the water on your mini map... adding in (of course) in a bit (or maybe a lot) of luck and a dash of skill.
    Also, I have been very lucky on quite a few occasions. Many of the friends I play with that are really good at playing Jason fully expect me to go for the boat and always kept an eye on the map for it... but I still got away against them many times and hopefully, if my luck holds... will continue to do so. 
    I always loved the boat for some reason and was hoping they would add the vehicle customization that they talked about a long time ago (I am not holding my breath though)... I would spray paint the name Pequod on the bow, and perhaps have a cosmetic harpoon to scare off that pesky white whale.... that whale is a dick.

    I would like the block reverted to the speed it was before the engine upgrade, it used to be quick enough to give someone fast enough with the buttons a legitimate chance to block a swing (unless the counselor is using swift attacker). Now it requires precognitive skills that only exist in fiction. I am o.k. with most other cooldowns and mechanics in the game... but those free demaskings and the piñata Jason is still an issue. Stun immunity would help with one, but not the other.
   Many people would complain about a shorter cooldown for the throwing knives (I am not one of them, but it should still have a cooldown). If it had a tiny cooldown, I bet a lot of Jasons would run out of knives much quicker too, and even the best of us don't hit with every throw. Unlike many other people, I actually like the new grab... even though I still miss and get punished sometimes. It just looks a whole lot better than the old animations.
   Either way, we have no control over this. The devs will do what the devs think is best... but they do read here on the forums and have been known in the past to implement some suggestions... and to come up with their own ideas to try to balance problems observed by the community. We will see soon enough what Black Tower studios can do with this game... hopefully, they do a good job... at least in the eyes of more players than not. You can never please everyone.

    Hits against trees, walls, and other objects counting towards the weapon breaking makes a lot of sense to me. I would also like to see that in the game as well... Hey, you never know. I can also see a lot of people complaining about that one too though... They may actually have to be more careful with their swings.

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I agree that after raging through a door/wall Jason should not be "free" stunned by an awaiting counselor on the other side.He should have a few seconds of immunity. The same applies to the pocket knife stun,firecracker stun,and bear trap stun.They all have free stun chances after the animation and it shouldn't happen in my opinion. I also agree he gets stunned too frequently.How to balance that is the tricky question. The grab just needs to be a tad wider and the recovery animation could be faster when you miss,other than that I like the way it looks. Bring back using counselors as shields when grabbed.

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@Fair Play Helping out new players is a good thing... I have made quiet a few friends in this game simply by helping them learn a few things that can help their gameplay.
   Wow... 5 daughters. I can imagine the estrogenical rage you get from all of them if you forget to put the toilet seat down... I have known such rage myself on a few occasions. I would have assumed... just by the odds... that there would have already been at least one boy in there somewhere already.

@TimDuke 01 After Jason recovers from a stun (including all that you have listed), he does have a couple seconds of stun immunity... I believe it is two seconds. I also believe two seconds is not enough... but neither do we need too much. There have been suggestion up to and above ten seconds for this in these forums... in my opinion, that would be too much.
   You can notice this when someone throws down firecrackers while Jason is stunned... as they do not stun him when the animation finishes... but if you walk out of them and back into them, it will stun you. Even the bat happy battle Chads that take a strike immediately after the stun will find that this strike will never stun him, unless they wait out the two seconds before striking. The shotgun will stun every time though, as far as I have noticed. The real problem here is the indefensible hit towards demasking that can be achieved after each stun, or after an animation that Jason is stuck in. There is no damage immunity at this time and it cannot be blocked. If Jason was given a way to block this free hit out of a stun and the animations he is locked into after they start, it would solve both these problems, in my opinion... but opinions on this vary and there have been many suggestions.

   Counselors that have been playing the piñata Jason game long enough... and Jason players that have endured it long enough can see this two second immunity if they are paying attention. This is why when you have a battle at the driver's side door of the car, you can still grab the driver immediately after a stun while other counselors continue to beat on you. Or, standing close to the fuse box or a power box while any number of counselors beat on you... you can still smash it before they can stun you again. The shotgun will stop this though as it will always stun you, considering the counselor with the gun saves it for these moments.
    The skilled battle Chads that can keep up the piñata party longer than others know enough to keep their distance for the two seconds after the stun and not waste a strike on their weapon... and to keep their distance while Jason holds down the block button... Before getting into block was slowed, if you timed it out properly and were quick... you could get into block before the two second stun immunity wore off... but doing this in a battle for the car or fuse box or power box would still cost you with an escaping car or the cops getting called.... and as I already stated... the smart battle Chads just back of while you stay in block. Time is on the counselor's side, not on Jason's side.
    But there currently is no stun resistance when raging through a door.

    Many people agree that the grab should be wider... I am not one of them. I like the current grab and am a big believer that nothing should be 100%. It takes practice and good aim... and even very skilled Jason players can still miss a grab...  But there was a time when it was hard to miss a grab... I do not think many of us actually miss that... the grab was quite overpowered then.
   How to balance this is, indeed… the tricky question... Opinions vary, but making the grab wider is not the answer. The grab is not recommended against groups... even when we could use the counselor in our grip as a meat shield.
    I think everyone here (or at least most of us) agree that meat shielding should be brought back as well.

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1 minute ago, Ahab said:

@Fair Play Helping out new players is a good thing... I have made quiet a few friends in this game simply by helping them learn a few things that can help their gameplay.
   Wow... 5 daughters. I can imagine the estrogenical rage you get from all of them if you forget to put the toilet seat down... I have known such rage myself on a few occasions. I would have assumed... just by the odds... that there would have already been at least one boy in there somewhere already.

@TimDuke 01 After Jason recovers from a stun (including all that you have listed), he does have a couple seconds of stun immunity... I believe it is two seconds. I also believe two seconds is not enough... but neither do we need too much. There have been suggestion up to and above ten seconds for this in these forums... in my opinion, that would be too much.

Oddly enough, the toilet seat issue has never been a thing, at least not yet.

How do you feel about 5 seconds of immunity after a stun?

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6 hours ago, Ahab said:

    Hits against trees, walls, and other objects counting towards the weapon breaking makes a lot of sense to me. I would also like to see that in the game as well... Hey, you never know. I can also see a lot of people complaining about that one too though... They may actually have to be more careful with their swings

Exactly. I think that being held accountable for bad  swings would make it harder to demask Jason and stun him in general. And looking at it from a hunters point of view I think making stun immunity somewhat on the  random side would increase the odds of me screwing something up if I'm not careful yet make for some exciting moments too (Jason comes out of a stun, rushes Tommy, sweater girl panicks and hits the sweater, and then:

A) Tommy drops Jason and gets the kill because Jason's stun immunity is up

Or:

B) Tommy hits Jason, Jason doesn't drop because the stun immunity wasn't up, and Tommy and the sweater girl are slaughtered.

3 hours ago, Fair Play said:

How do you feel about 5 seconds of immunity after a stun?

I don't think I'd go any longer than that.

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5 minutes ago, Somethin Cool said:

Exactly. I think that being held accountable for bad  swings would make it harder to demask Jason and stun him in general. And looking at it from a hunters point of view I think making stun immunity somewhat on the  random side would increase the odds of me screwing something up if I'm not careful yet make for some exciting moments too (Jason comes out of a stun, rushes Tommy, sweater girl panicks and hits the sweater, and then:

A random element would shake things up. However, I'd be concerned, as the adaptation of players has gotten pretty impressive. Once the range of a random stun immunity was determined, teams of Jason hunters would eventually catch on, and potentially nail Jason.

For example, let's say Jason had a range of 2 to 5 seconds. What would stop counselors from delaying their attacks, and say surround Jason and each take a swing 1 second apart from each other. Someone would eventually stun him again.

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Edit for balance on Jason: make it so he can't use his abilities until one second after his stun immunity wears off.

  @Fair Play what's to stop them from doing that on a solid 5 second stun immunity if they're all running thick skin, medic, and hypochondriac? I'd say speed up Jason's slash a bit and leave it up to chance. But if all the hits that don't stun are taking swings off the counselors weapons they probably won't be doing that for long.

Edited by Somethin Cool

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11 minutes ago, Somethin Cool said:

Edit for balance on Jason: make it so he can't use his abilities until one second after his stun immunity wears off.

  @Fair Play what's to stop them from doing that on a solid 5 second stun immunity if they're all running thick skin, medic, and hypochondriac? I'd say speed up Jason's slash a bit and leave it up to chance. But if all the hits that don't stun are taking swings off the counselors weapons they probably won't be doing that for long.

At the moment, there's likely nothing to stop such a thing from happening.

All in all, no matter what changes are made, it will always be a game of chance. There are a lot of things to consider. Which counselors are bring played? What perks are used? How long do the weapons last? How is the timing of each counselor swing? I believe that someone out there will always take all these things into consideration as they engage Jason. And with every change that is made, they will eventually adapt to it.

I wouldn't doubt there are players running the thick skin / medic / hypochondriac perk setup, but I doubt there are many instances of 7 at one time.

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