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A Question About Balance

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7 hours ago, GhostWolfViking said:

 

 

4 hours ago, GeneiJin said:

Yep, Damn those Millennials that want everything easy for Jason.  God forbids his player should be as good as the counselor's to be effective against them. ;)

Yea I figured you were a millennial, ........ video game college LOL!

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3 hours ago, thrawn3054 said:

Don't start that millennials bull shit. Like past generations had some superiority. As to things being "handed" to people I don't want to play as Jason with an easy mode. My arguments have always been to try to balance things for both sides. I don't want it to be too easy for either side.

Yes I will start and you responding(even though I didn’t name anyone directly) helps me finish ...... weak minded millennials, I bet you consume allot of soy LOL!

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31 minutes ago, NytmereZ said:

Yes I will start and you responding(even though I didn’t name anyone directly) helps me finish ...... weak minded millennials, I bet you consume allot of soy LOL!

Since you quoted me before your pop shot at a generation I'd say you did name me. You also seem incapable of an actual argument. Unless your theories on the weakness of a generation and their dietary habits are some how relevant. 

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So much passion around spicy topics ^^

Ummm i think its great for the game , i think it'll change it , bad thing that the devs have dropped this project . 

First things gotta be fixed are glitches , bugs , connections ( a 80ms player is way more likely to easily beat a 240 ms) .

The balance its great , might need a little work on the grab but other than that its fine , playing against a group is not that hard , use knives , block and counter.

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5 hours ago, NytmereZ said:

 

Yea I figured you were a millennial, ........ video game college LOL!

Technically Art School.  Learn all kind of neat skills like 3d modeling and Video Editing before I change my career choice and left.

What I'm wondering is where you developed this Superiority Complex and felt you need to display it on a fuck'n Video Game Forum?  Stop living in Jr. High, grow up and respect your fellow peers here when they have done nothing to warrant your lack of.

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If Jason had a melee attack that had a wider range it would help. And if you get the first strike in as Jason you shouldn't automatically get hit if the councilor responds with an attack of their own. Other then that I would say balance is ok. Jason just needs a way to deal with multiple attackers. Right now he dosen't.  

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1 hour ago, Alien_Number_Six said:

If Jason had a melee attack that had a wider range it would help. And if you get the first strike in as Jason you shouldn't automatically get hit if the councilor responds with an attack of their own. Other then that I would say balance is ok. Jason just needs a way to deal with multiple attackers. Right now he dosen't.  

It's the often cited flaw of Jason's swing.  My best guess the devs left it that way to avoid Jason from just repetitively slash without giving counselor any options out.  Jason can avoid the counter attack by backing off after the swing, but the swing must be max range, which is why I suggested they extend it's range just a bit more.  It is easy to manage if you have a running Jason with a spear, P3 and P4 are very good with this.  If your swing is too deep, you can also shift-cancel the swing recovery and ether shift slightly away to safety or use the shift to block the counselor's counter, exit and punish w/ grab or slash to finish off.

A suggest I just thought of is have the counselor pushed back after a slash hit.  This would be far for both parties as Jason won't be in range for a counter hit and counselor won't get stuck there ether, only receiving damage.  But then again considering that we see all kinda "shenanigans" involving pushback from PK, I'm sure it would bring all kind of new "issues" to this game, so I have no faith it could be implemented correctly giving this game's track record.

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1 hour ago, GeneiJin said:

It's the often cited flaw of Jason's swing.  My best guess the devs left it that way to avoid Jason from just repetitively slash without giving counselor any options out.  Jason can avoid the counter attack by backing off after the swing, but the swing must be max range, which is why I suggested they extend it's range just a bit more.  It is easy to manage if you have a running Jason with a spear, P3 and P4 are very good with this.  If your swing is too deep, you can also shift-cancel the swing recovery and ether shift slightly away to safety or use the shift to block the counselor's counter, exit and punish w/ grab or slash to finish off.

A suggest I just thought of is have the counselor pushed back after a slash hit.  This would be far for both parties as Jason won't be in range for a counter hit and counselor won't get stuck there ether, only receiving damage.  But then again considering that we see all kinda "shenanigans" involving pushback from PK, I'm sure it would bring all kind of new "issues" to this game, so I have no faith it could be implemented correctly giving this game's track record.

Well when Grab has more range then your Axe something is rotten in Denmark. Councilors should have the advantage when they work together. But they shouldn't have the overwhelming advantage they do now. It's so easy to punish Grab right now Jason is getting killed too often. If the devs intend us to slash when surrounded they need to make slash more effective.

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2 hours ago, Alien_Number_Six said:

Well when Grab has more range then your Axe something is rotten in Denmark. Councilors should have the advantage when they work together. But they shouldn't have the overwhelming advantage they do now. It's so easy to punish Grab right now Jason is getting killed too often. If the devs intend us to slash when surrounded they need to make slash more effective.

Grab isn't a useful tool against groups or against counselors zipping around you trying to bait an attack.  The key for dealing with groups are patience, spacing, wasting their weapons/resources, wearing down their stamina, denying them a chance to hit you, and punishing with Knives and slashes.  Bait them to commit first and always go after the ones who thinks you are ignoring them as they move away from the group to escape, looking for a weapon, objectives, whatever.

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2 hours ago, GeneiJin said:

Grab isn't a useful tool against groups or against counselors zipping around you trying to bait an attack.  The key for dealing with groups are patience, spacing, wasting their weapons/resources, wearing down their stamina, denying them a chance to hit you, and punishing with Knives and slashes.  Bait them to commit first and always go after the ones who thinks you are ignoring them as they move away from the group to escape, looking for a weapon, objectives, whatever.

Hes not asking for game advice.   

 

He's just pointing out the obvious problem with the game in terms of Jason stunning, trading hits and group stunning.

 

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5 hours ago, HuDawg said:

Hes not asking for game advice.   

 

He's just pointing out the obvious problem with the game in terms of Jason stunning, trading hits and group stunning.

 

I'm leaving advice for him or anyone reading here if they need it.  Jason does have problem trading hits, so don't.  Only make safe hits and make them up sprays.

We can complain here all we want how Jason's tools are lacking, but likely nothing will come about it.  I'd rather discuss how they are lacking and what can be done to overcome them and succeed.

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51 minutes ago, GeneiJin said:

I'm leaving advice for him or anyone reading here if they need it.  Jason does have problem trading hits, so don't.  Only make safe hits and make them up sprays.

We can complain here all we want how Jason's tools are lacking, but likely nothing will come about it.  I'd rather discuss how they are lacking and what can be done to overcome them and succeed.

Most of us know this game inside and out. So offering game advice to known game play issues is kind of pointless.

I mean, you did offer advice. Problem is if an objective is being pushed, hanging back with Jason is just gonna allow counsellors easy escapes. So Jason has to go in..trading hits will happen

And Jason should not be punished for trading hits anyways.. Its as simple as that.

Besides, its up to gun to alter and fix game play mechanics.

Sure , nothing may change..  But nothing ever changes unless people speak up. 

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Just now, HuDawg said:

Most of us know this game inside and out. So offering game advice to known game play issues is kind of pointless.

I mean, you did offer advice. Problem is if an objective is being pushed, hanging back with Jason is just gonna allow counsellors easy escapes. So Jason has to go in..

Jason should not be punished for trading hits anyways.. Its as simple as that.

Besides, its up to gun to alter and fix game play mechanics.

Sure , nothing may change..  But nothing ever changes unless people speak up. 

I’m not sure when Gun can do since they legally can’t do much anymore.

I mean if they COULD bring back older animations such as some of the beta animations like starting and stopping a run could help against group attacks. It would be a bit easier to catch a counselor off guard if they have to start a run and all the other counselors would also have to start a run to save their teammates. A split second is all it takes for Jason to kill a counselor. It would also make the grab a little more effective.

I think Gun has answered the question on bringing back beta animations and I think it was more on the bottom of their list of things to bring back and the lag spikes on consoles would skyrocket so it wasn’t worth the effort. They may feel different about it now since they can’t do much to the game anymore.

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19 minutes ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

I’m not sure when Gun can do since they legally can’t do much anymore.

 

 

 

Thats why i offered up some simple solutions for simple problems.

Just a few minor changes..

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17 hours ago, HuDawg said:

Hes not asking for game advice.   

 

He's just pointing out the obvious problem with the game in terms of Jason stunning, trading hits and group stunning.

 

Thank you @HuDawg

12 hours ago, GeneiJin said:

I'm leaving advice for him or anyone reading here if they need it.  Jason does have problem trading hits, so don't.  Only make safe hits and make them up sprays.

We can complain here all we want how Jason's tools are lacking, but likely nothing will come about it.  I'd rather discuss how they are lacking and what can be done to overcome them and succeed.

And there isn't anything wrong with that. But for a veteran of the game who is more then pretty good at it it seems more then a little condescending.

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2 hours ago, Alien_Number_Six said:

And there isn't anything wrong with that. But for a veteran of the game who is more then pretty good at it it seems more then a little condescending.

The intentions weren't condescending.  I don't make assumptions of player skill without see them play.  I've seen "veterans" play poorly just as I've seen Lvl 70's play better than most 150's. 

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Balance is okay-ish. Damage immunity on get up would be nice for not having the mask knock off after you have been stunned once. I actually had an instance where I was bored and used Fox for a change. I had the sweater, Tommy lost his PK to shift grab, stunned Jason after the PK, then when Jason got up, we both did CS heavy attack and the mask was off and Jason was dead shortly after. Jason dying for landing a grab is pretty absurd. Yes, he should have turned power off and prevented the sweater from being grabbed, but dying for landing a grab is pretty unbalanced.

Other than that, faster kill prompts/faster grab animation would be decent to actually have gab be an option against groups.

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17 hours ago, GeneiJin said:

The intentions weren't condescending.  I don't make assumptions of player skill without see them play.  I've seen "veterans" play poorly just as I've seen Lvl 70's play better than most 150's. 

I didn't think so it was just the way it was worded.

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3 minutes ago, Alien_Number_Six said:

I didn't think so it was just the way it was worded.

NP, if you don't need the advice, just disregard it, it may still help someone that happens to need it here.

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On 9/6/2018 at 1:27 PM, HuDawg said:

When it looks retarded and makes no sense..    

 

Im not that deep. 

 

Being disarmed isn't going 'far'.  Its actually fair in terms of game play and presentation.

 

You are not any level of deep. A good level of dense... But certainly not deep. 

There have been multiple valid points brought up on EXACTLY why your proposed game changes would make the game unplayable for 7 of the 8 players. But YOU didn't bring up those, and since you didn't say it, you didn't hear it. 

You must be a horrible Jason player AND a horrible sport... so stick to bots (on easy) and you should feel the unstoppable feeling you need... plus us reasonable players won't have to deal with you. It's a Win Win?

 

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I am a GREAT F13 player! I don’t need advice! What’s wrong with you?!

Geez, some of you guys will nit pick and fuss over anything.

What’s wrong with being nice and trying to help? Ever heard of the golden rule?

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4 hours ago, VoorheesGt101 said:

There have been multiple valid points brought up on EXACTLY why your proposed game changes would make the game unplayable

Which i easily refuted.

You saying a few basic game play changes make the game unplayable is laughable..    You must be a horrible counselor player if you think such a few minor changes would impact the game to the point of it being 'unplayable'. 

4 hours ago, VoorheesGt101 said:

 You must be a horrible Jason player AND a horrible sport... so stick to bots (on easy) and you should feel the unstoppable feeling you need... plus us reasonable players won't have to deal with you. It's a Win Win?

 

My entire perspective for altering the game came from playing mostly as Counselor.. It has nothing do with me playing as Jason.    So your over dramatic ramblings about 'reasonable players' or my skill level make zero sense.   You're painting me in the light of a BAD SPORT.  When im simply looking at it from a game play perspective. 

Again.. its not the deep.

Should Jason be able to be so stunned so easily and consistently?   The simple answer is NO.

Should counselors be able to trade shots with Jason so easily?  The simple answer is NO.

Should Jason have no way of defending against group attacks?  The simple answer is NO.

 

There's nothing more annoying than people on this forum that act like any changes to the game that alter idiotic game play mechanic that favors counselors is some how tied to that player being a "HORRIBLE" Jason.   

Just like when people where asking for a fix against Counselors hitting Jason through doors..    "Whaaaat you want the door fixed,  Ooooh you just suck at Jason" .        

And when you try to explain that clipping through the door to land melee attacks looks completely idiotic, its like their brain shuts off and refuses to want to acknowledge it.  "Door, look stupid.. whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat"?     

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Yes, hitting through the door was silly. But since Jason can still hit through the door I think that's pretty silly too.

As for the rest of this, we can all go round and round on this. While I don't agree with all of Hudawg's suggestions, we, I think all  can agree some measures are needed. Unfortunately I don't think we're going to see any changes implemented. 

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I'd be content if stunning Jason would be a bit more difficult, removing mask would need a bit more damage, the grab-cone should be just a little wider and the recovery from a missed grab should be quicker. No free stuns!

Simple little things that shouldnt piss off the dancing-trolls too much..

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36 minutes ago, thrawn3054 said:

Yes, hitting through the door was silly. But since Jason can still hit through the door I think that's pretty silly too.

Jason clipping through the door is silly (Don't really care if they fix it or not) .  But it was a bigger issue with counselors doing it.

The people whining about it when it was brought up was my point.   They acted like wanting to get the "DOOR" fixed was unfair, and the only people complaining about it where BAD Jason players.  Because Jason should just use CS to break down doors.  

 

When the reality was, the people complaining about it getting fixed where simply worried about losing a SIMPLE way of attacking, stunning, trolling and de-masking Jason.  

And its no different now to some people.   If someone points out game play issues that should be fixed that favor counselors too much.  You get people who instantly assume the player is BAD at using Jason.     When in reality, the player is probably just bad with counselors.

I know for myself.  If i end up with 2-4 other counselors that are decent players.   We can easily beat Jason silly for at least 5 mins no matter how skilled he is.   If hes just an Average Jason player, then it extends to 10-20 mins.   

The changes that i brought up are mostly to STOP ME form doing what im capable of doing.  Because when Jason can be so easily toyed with it ruins my counselor experience on all kinds of levels

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