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A Question About Balance

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Just now, JennyMyers1984 said:

It’s simple...power in numbers. You’re gonna have an easier time catching one Vanessa then five Vanessa ganging up on you. Not that hard to realize that Jason vs one counselor is more balanced than Jason vs multiple counselors.

Even without melee weapons in the game, if the counselors start going after multiple objectives, counselors will force Jason into a impossible situation of not being able to be everywhere at once.  Players would still escape.    So theres there ZERO for need any sort of power in numbers.

I just see it as it is..   Combat is simply in counselors favor.     This game is meant to be counselors running, hiding and trying to escape.   That should be where the counselors have the advantage.  Not in combat.

There should be NO incentive to gang up on Jason and combat should always be in Jasons favor.  It should never ever.. be balanced around One counselor VS Jason in combat.  Because it if its, you end up with what we have now.     If you you it make it so ONE has a counselor CAN beat Jason silly, that simply be out of wack in NUMBERS.

You can't have both.

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39 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Even without melee weapons in the game, if the counselors start going after multiple objectives, counselors will force Jason into a impossible situation of not being able to be everywhere at once.  Players would still escape.    So theres there ZERO for need any sort of power in numbers.

I just see it as it is..   Combat is simply in counselors favor.     This game is meant to be counselors running, hiding and trying to escape.   That should be where the counselors have the advantage.  Not in combat.

There should be NO incentive to gang up on Jason and combat should always be in Jasons favor.  It should never ever.. be balanced around One counselor VS Jason in combat.  Because it if its, you end up with what we have now.     If you you it make it so ONE has a counselor CAN beat Jason silly, that simply be out of wack in NUMBERS.

You can't have both.

What the point of running and hiding? Jason is just gonna sense you with his Terminator sense. Combat is more effective (for most people) than stealth is. If Jason didn’t have a PINPOINT sense that automatically gave away a counselors position then maybe players would be more inclined to stealth. You have high stealth counselors like Tiffany and AJ fighting because they simply can’t stealth away and lose a chase without fighting off Jason with melee weapons. Hiding isn’t very effective unlike combat which can be pretty effective since it IS in the counselors favor. It’s backward...combat is in the counselors favor while stealth and hiding most certainly is not in the counselors favor. I’ve always said counselors position should not be given away due to sense unless in high levels of fear. Example is that Chad’s position would be given away FAR faster than Jenny’s would and Jenny would be able to lose a chase from stealth and composure more than Chad would. Counselors do not have the ability to lose a chase but have an advantage in combat, so that’s why you have players playing Jason piñata trying to knock some candy out of him. However in this case the “candy” would be salt.

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16 minutes ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

What the point of running and hiding? Jason is just gonna sense you with his Terminator sense.

 

Running is to avoid Jason..  Hiding also does work, infact running and hiding is how players used to land attacks on Jason when he gave chase.  Its also distracts Jason and wastes his time and allows others to get objectives done.

It doesn't matter if he has sense.   You can still hide in big cabins and houses and you can also sneak around while hes distracted by other counselors.. But the point is,   Counselors job is to get objectives done,  avoid Jason or die.

 

Not fight Jason...  Because like i said.   "Even without melee weapons in the game, if the counselors start going after multiple objectives, counselors will force Jason into a impossible situation of not being able to be everywhere at once.  Players would still escape.    "

 

Thats why i think its funny when people complain when I say Jason should be able to easily steam roll through everyone in his way.  Because you should not be in his way, you should be running away like rabbits.   Not gleefully running at him to attack..

 

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2 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

 

Running is to avoid Jason..  Hiding also does work, infact running and hiding is how players used to land attacks on Jason when he gave chase.  Its also distracts Jason and wastes his time and allows others to get objectives done.

It doesn't matter if he has sense.   You can still hide in big cabins and houses and you can also sneak around while hes distracted by other counselors.. But the point is,   Counselors job is to get objectives done,  avoid Jason or die.

 

Not fight Jason...

 

Thats why i think its funny when people complain when I say Jason should be able to easily steam roll through everyone in his way.  Because you should not be in his way, you should be running away like rabbits.   Not gleefully running at him to attack..

 

 

 

I usually run distraction...I play Tiffany, it’s what she’s good at and that’s my job as a teammate. one of the better speed stats and the best stamina in the game (along with Vanessa), I’ve grown accustomed to my playstyle and it works for me. I don’t dictate how others play. If they want to gang up on Jason then by all means do so. Jason should have to deal with fighting counselors. The final girl didn’t give up and she put up a fight and defeated Jason in the end. That’s the same way I like to play in the game. Although you’ll occasionally get those salty Jason players who just can’t take the 7/8 and be happy with it. Jason went through everybody until the last two or three and he was finally defeated. 

Stealth and hiding is not my thing...I’ve rarely seen it used effectively. Running and combat works best for my playstyle, just that simple. If I wanna fight Jason then I will and nobdoy should be telling me that it isn’t the right way to play. Combat isn’t my go-to though. You play how you wanna play and I’ll play my way. No right or wrong way to play.

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11 minutes ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

 If I wanna fight Jason then I will and nobody should be telling me that it isn’t the right way to play. 

LOOK AT THE POINT>   Its not about you.

The current state of the game means Jason ends up laying on his ass or standing there like and idiot when counselors attack him especially when in groups.

Its looks RETARDED.   So your RIGHT to play how you want has nothing to do with bad game play mechanics.

If they altered the game play mechanics ( like they have done countless times) back into Jasons favor again, nothing would be stopping you from fighting Jason..   You would just end up dying alot more and alot faster, but you can still fight him.    

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5 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

LOOK AT THE POINT>   Its not about you.

The current state of the game means Jason ends up laying on his ass or standing there like and idiot when counselors attack him especially when in groups.

Its looks RETARDED.   So your RIGHT to play how you want has nothing to do with bad game play mechanics.

If they altered the game play mechanics ( like they have done countless times) back into Jasons favor again, nothing would be stopping you from fighting Jason..   You would just end up dying alot more and alot faster, but you can still fight him.    

There is NOTHING you can do in group attacks and NOTHING the devs could do about it point blank. Even if Jason had a short stun immunity the counselors would just spread out while you grab and swing like a moron and stun you when your immunity went down. You pick one up and they will stun you to save their teammate. You gotta pick the weakest one and the farthest one from the group and kill them and keep on going. It’s not fun...I’ve been there and done that many times. It’s just too many of them and too many numbers to deal with. There isn’t much the devs can do the fix that and I highly doubt they ever will.

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5 minutes ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

There is NOTHING you can do in group attacks and NOTHING the devs could do about it point blank.

I already listed a few things.

Jason should be stun immune for a short time after getting stunned. 

Jason landing a melee attack should disarm counselors on the spot. 

Healing time should be as long Jasons stun time.     

Block in combat stance should actually work, from all angles all the time

Its really not that complicated.    And theres alot more i can think of that could easily be added.

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2 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

I already listed a few things.

Jason should be stun immune for a short time after getting stunned. 

Jason landing a melee attack should disarm counselors on the spot. 

Healing time should be as long Jasons stun time.     

Block in combat stance should actually work, from all angles all the time

Its really not that complicated.    And theres alot more i can think of that could easily be added.

You can only be immune to a stun for so long...counselors will spread out and once counselors figure out the timing they circle back in and start to go after Jason again.

Doesn’t make sense for blocking to work on all angles. If you’re blocking from the front, a cheap shot from the back will stun anybody. Jason blocks from the front not the back.

If they added the only healing animation from the beta back that would be sufficient.

You’re looking to hard into this, just relax when you play...play to have fun and if you aren’t having fun then there are tons of other games out there. I doubt there will be many more patches for the game, sadly...

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10 minutes ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

You can only be immune to a stun for so long...counselors will spread out and once counselors figure out the timing they circle back in and start to go after Jason again.

It stops the chain stuns...  And forces Counselors to get away.  (Which is my point)

 

10 minutes ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

Doesn’t make sense for blocking to work on all angles.

Yes it does...  Jason in CS is slow, that gives counselors a chance to run away and slows Jason down. Blocking should work from all angles to prevent group beat down stuns.  (Again it forces counselors to fuck off)

 

10 minutes ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

 

You’re looking to hard into this, just relax when you play...play to have fun.

Actually im looking at this as simple as possible.   Jason being so easily stunned looks retarded, thats my starting point.  From there i simply look at ways to stop this from happening.

Its not that deep.. Its also not that complicated to fix.  Its also NOT FUN from both a Jason and Counselors perspective when Jason is getting so easily beat down.    

Also Jason should instantly disarm counselors if he lands the melee attack 1st.  THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT when combined with stun immunity and a working all angle block.

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@JennyMyers1984

@HuDawg

Perhaps Another way ....is to give Jason a one time temporary rage mode that can be activated anytime during the match with either an immunity to stuns or an huge increase to stun resistance and a limited faster zombie Jason walk or run for Human Jasons.

 .....allowing Jason a more aggressive way to deal with groups....

What do you guys think?

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16 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Yes it does...  Jason in CS is slow, that gives counselors a chance to run away and slows Jason down. Blocking should work from all angles to prevent group beat down stuns.  (Again it forces counselors to fuck off)

This is the only thing I can’t really agree with. Jason’s back is WIDE open for a cheap shot. A cheap shot from the back with a bat should have a high stun chance whether Jason is blocking or not. He is blocking from the front not the back. I get the point of trying to stop the attack but it doesn’t make any logical sense to have him blocked from all angles when his back is open for a cheap shot. 

Jason is slow in combat stance but he is still slightly faster than counselors are in combat stance.

I’m not sure what kind of killing mobs you guys are getting into. You act as if every round you are Jason there is a kill squad. I haven’t run into a kill squad in a while. They’ve all been low level players easy for the picking.

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8 minutes ago, OCT 31 1978 said:

@JennyMyers1984

@HuDawg

Perhaps Another way ....is to give Jason a one time temporary rage mode that can be activated anytime during the match with either an immunity to stuns or an huge increase to stun resistance and a limited faster zombie Jason walk or run for Human Jasons.

 .....allowing Jason a more aggressive way to deal with groups....

What do you guys think?

I like the idea...although I’m not about ANYTIME during the match. I’d say either after Jason gets his stalk ability it can be activated or after he has been stunned “x” number of times. Maybe like a 2-3 minute temporary rage mode?

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5 minutes ago, F13 Fail said:

Because you can't rotate quickly in combat stance to effectively block the attack. It's a work around for shitty game design.

You can’t rotate anyways because you get auto-locked onto the closest counselor to you. They need to remove auto-lock in combat stance, ESPECIALLY counselor on counselor auto-lock. That really makes no sense.

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26 minutes ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

I like the idea...although I’m not about ANYTIME during the match. I’d say either after Jason gets his stalk ability it can be activated or after he has been stunned “x” number of times. Maybe like a 2-3 minute temporary rage mode?

Exactly!! A 2 to 3 minute  temporary rage mode with increased stun resistance and extra speed.... in his run / fast walk.!!

The way I look at it Groups can form up at any point in the match this would give Jason something to counter them from the get go.

if he uses it against one or two players that’s  the players choice and then it’s off the board....

if you do it as a build up with stuns it’s no different than regular rage mode.

I think ever Jason should start with it ready to be activated..... 

it would add even more to gameplay the counselor  players wouldn’t know if it is safe to engage Jason...... 

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1 hour ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

This is the only thing I can’t really agree with. Jason’s back is WIDE open for a cheap shot. A cheap shot from the back with a bat should have a high stun chance whether Jason is blocking or not.

When Jason gets hit from the back in CS.. Hes getting hit in the actual upper back.   Which is basically the least painful and best place to be hit by anything other than your shoulders..   So it makes ZERO for it to be a HIGH STUN CHANCE.  Especially for someone as big and strong as Jason. 

Remember this is about stopping GROUP STUNNING.    

And, If you want to 'cheap shot stun' Jason, hit him when hes not in CS and when he least expects it.    Because a 100% CS block  doesn't really alter anything besides making CS actually effective against group beat downs.  

So it makes perfect sense for CS block to be 100% block from all angles at all times.  

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53 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

When Jason gets hit from the back in CS.. Hes getting hit in the actual upper back.   Which is basically the least painful and best place to be hit by anything other than your shoulders..   So it makes ZERO for it to be a HIGH STUN CHANCE.  Especially for someone as big and strong as Jason. 

Remember this is about stopping GROUP STUNNING.    

And, If you want to 'cheap shot stun' Jason, hit him when hes not in CS and when he least expects it.    Because a 100% CS block  doesn't really alter anything besides making CS actually effective against group beat downs.  

So it makes perfect sense for CS block to be 100% block from all angles at all times.  

Actually it depends on the weapon and whether or not you are in combat stance. If you aren’t in combat stance, the bat hits the small of the back. In combat stance, if it is perfectly lined up the bat would go straight on the back of Jason’s head. Pretty painful, even for Jason. The counselors are a lot shorter than Jason, while not in combat stance the weapons don’t reach but so far. It also just depends, sometimes a weapon with hit the shoulder blade, spine, or upper back. Just like from the front it’ll sometimes hit the chest, head, or right in the stomach. Remember this is an indy game, it’s not like it recognizes the region of the body you hit, it’s just an RNG. Too deep for this game...again, just different opinions. I believe combat stance should only block from the front and you believe otherwise.

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53 minutes ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

Actually it depends on the weapon and whether or not you are in combat stance. If you aren’t in combat stance, the bat hits the small of the back. In combat stance, if it is perfectly lined up the bat would go straight on the back of Jason’s head. Pretty painful, even for Jason.   

Remember this is an indy game, it’s not like it recognizes the region of the body you hit, it’s just an RNG. Too deep for this game...again, just different opinions. I believe combat stance should only block from the front and you believe otherwise.

Actually it doesn't matter..  Jason is bigger, stronger and hes undead freak who im pretty sure doesn't feel pain.    Besides, the weapons do not hit him in the back of the head when hes in combat stance.   Unless my game is visually broken, it hits him the shoulder or back.

Either way, Without a way to block at all angles at all time.  Hes prone to being attacked by a group and stunned.    Which is the main point of this.

Seems to me you're just making excuses because you like to group stun Jason.   Because what im offering is changing nothing that would still allow you to fight back if need be AND it makes sense..      Infact it would simply force counselors to play as it was actually intended.

 

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5 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Actually it doesn't matter..  Jason is bigger, stronger and hes undead freak who im pretty sure doesn't feel pain.    Besides, the weapons do not hit him in the back of the head when hes in combat stance.   Unless my game is visually broken, it hits him the shoulder or back.

Either way, Without a way to block at all angles at all time.  Hes prone to being attacked by a group and stunned.    Which is the main point of this.

Seems to me you're just making excuses because you like to group stun Jason.   Because what im offering is changing nothing that would still allow you to fight back if need be AND it makes sense..      Infact it would simply force counselors to play as it was actually intended.

 

If he is stunned then he feels pain. Hitting Jason from the back should stun him period. I get your idea and what you are going for but it’s not logical. There is no way to block a cheap shot with your back turned. Maybe it should have a LOWER stun chance but a 100% block? Nah.

The only thing your that you’re offering is an unrealistic idea that Jason should be able to block his entire body when he is only blocking from his front. It makes no sense. 

I don’t make excuses. All you like to do is point fingers and make assumptions when somebody has a different opinion than you do. Where did I ever state I like to group stun Jason? Learn to live with the fact that people have different opinions and that yours isn’t more valid. All we are doing is going back and forth and we aren’t changing our opinions, I don’t see the point in continuing...I’ve already stated my points countless times.

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35 minutes ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

. Hitting Jason from the back should stun him period. I get your idea and what you are going for but it’s not logical. There is no way to block a cheap shot with your back turned. Maybe it should have a LOWER stun chance but a 100% block? Nah.

The only thing your that you’re offering is an unrealistic idea that Jason should be able to block his entire body when he is only blocking from his front. It makes no sense. 

I don’t make excuses.

.. Oooh you're making excuses.     You making it sound like it makes NO SENSE  is pretty funny.  Considering the fact when Jason nails a melee attack counselors barely flinch. 

Again, getting hit in upper back is the best place to be hit.  You're are blocking it, with your BACK.     But again this about blocking GROUP STUNS.  

100% BLOCK nah?   Naah?  ..   How about HELL YA!, unless you actually enjoy simple group stuns .. Which at this point its blatantly obvious you do.  

Im not saying all melee attacks from the back should not stun him.  Im saying CS should block everything.  

Jason in CS.. Back off or Run away.   

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Just now, HuDawg said:

.. Oooh you're making excuses.     You making it sound like it makes NO SENSE..  is pretty funny.  Considering the fact when Jason nails a melee attack counselors barely flinch. 

Again, getting hit in upper back is the best place to be hit.  You're are blocking it, with your BACK.     But again this about blocking GROUP STUNS.  

100% BLOCK nah?   Naah?  ..   How about HELL YA!, unless you actually enjoy simple group stuns .. Which at this point its blatantly obvious you do.  

Im not saying all melee attacks from the back should not stun him.  Im saying CS should block everything.  

Jason in CS.. Back off or Run away.   

I mean not EVERY shot should stun Jason, like a firepoker or a 2X4 (which is a rare stun anyways). Just saying that a bat the the back is a higher stun chance. It doesn’t hit his shoulders. The counselors aren’t even 6’0 tall, they can barely reach that high. It hits Jason in small of the back, at least when I stun him. It varies however. Plus I already said that counselors should have longer stun and not a flinch so I don’t know why you even said that when I agree with you before.

There could be other ways other than combat stance to fight off groups you know. Blocking shouldn’t be a guarenteed 100% chance of a NO stun. Yes it should be a lower chance but a bat (especially to the back) should have a higher stun chance than a shot with a firepoker.

not saying all melee attacks from the back should not stun him.  Im saying CS should block everything. .” Although you said that CS should block from all angles. You’re contradicting yourself by stating that CS should block from all angles then going back and saying that you sais “not saying all melee attacks from the back should not stun him.” Okay whatever you say ??

I already stated my playstyle and I don’t have to prove to you that I rarely if EVER join in on a group stun with Jason and even if I did then it’s not of your concern. Seems like you’ve laid on your ass too much as Jason by a group attack. Oh but now I’m making assumptions...sound familiar to you?

How do you not understand that we have different opinions? You’re not convincing me otherwise and I’m not convincing you.

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5 minutes ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

 

How do you not understand that we have different opinions? You’re not convincing me otherwise and I’m not convincing you.

OK.. Give one good reason as to why you need to be able to stun Jason when hes in CS with his guard up?  

I really only care about stopping group stuns.. I play counsellor all the time, so im not really understanding how CS block would change anything besides group melee attack stun fests having an actual REAL counter

 

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5 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

OK.. Give one good reason as to why you need to be able to stun Jason when hes in CS with his guard up?  

I really only care about stopping group stuns.. I play counsellor all the time, so im not really understanding how CS block would change anything besides group melee attack stun fests having an actual REAL counter

 

Trust me...I believe there needs to be a way for Jason to deal with group stuns, the stuns are super annoying to deal with over and over again. It just doesn’t seem logical to me for a 100% block from a cheap shot to the back. Sure, if his guard is up in the front then he should able to block all day long. I’ll list two examples. Jason’s guard was up when Julius was punching him head on in Part 8, he knew it was coming and ate the punches. Part 3 he got about two or three cheap shots to the back of the head with shovels and pieces of wood by Chris and it stunned him instantly because he didn’t see it coming. You can’t have your guard up on ALL angles from blocking from the front and not watching your back.

I know that you’re listing ideas about stopping group stuns but shots from the back will catch anybody off guard, even Jason.

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5 minutes ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

Trust me...I believe there needs to be a way for Jason to deal with group stuns, the stuns are super annoying to deal with over and over again. It just doesn’t seem logical to me for a 100% block from a cheap shot to the back. Sure, if his guard is up in the front then he should able to block all day long. I’ll list two examples. Jason’s guard was up when Julius was punching him head on in Part 8, he knew it was coming and ate the punches. Part 3 he got about two or three cheap shots to the back of the head with shovels and pieces of wood by Chris and it stunned him instantly because he didn’t see it coming. You can’t have your guard up on ALL angles from blocking from the front and not watching your back.

I know that you’re listing ideas about stopping group stuns but shots from the back will catch anybody off guard, even Jason.

Actual in game reasons..as to  why you need to be able to stun Jason when hes in CS with his guard up?  

Because if this was the movies.. Counselors would be on the groud half dead from one Jason melee attack

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