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A Question About Balance

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16 minutes ago, GeneiJin said:

Yea, perhaps it's because we both sub-main Jenny, lol. 

I didn't fear Jason with that grab back then, I'm not going to fear him if they brought it back.

Wasn’t your main Vanessa? Because mine is Tiffany and then Jenny. Pretty sure yours is Vanessa and then Jenny.

I also didn’t fear his grab, although you didn’t wanna get too close to Jason because of the Darth Vader reach. Those were some dark times to be a counselor and get the 20 yard grab.

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6 minutes ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

 I don’t see many higher level Jason players who are flat on their ass for most of the round. Expect to be stunned though, experienced counselors aren’t going down without a fight.

Exactly, good Jason players know how not to allow counselor a hit to regain stamina.  I'll even gladly take a stun if it gives me a tactical advantage such as finishing off a crippled counselor.

6 minutes ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

Wasn’t your main Vanessa? Because mine is Tiffany and then Jenny. Pretty sure yours is Vanessa and then Jenny.

I also didn’t fear his grab, although you didn’t wanna get too close to Jason because of the Darth Vader reach. Those were some dark times to be a counselor and get the 20 yard grab.

Yep, Nessa and Jen. 

LOL, dark times?  That shit still happens when the Jason has 300+ ping.  I'll be car distance away, then suddenly "What the fuck!?@"   Check the ping, and I understand what happened.  :angry:

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1 hour ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

If the Jason player spams the grab button like an idiot then they’re going to get punished by a counselor with a bat.

This has nothing do with spamming grab and everything to with the current state of the game. 

Shitty grab radius, slow grab recovery, broken block mechanic , too many heals and no stun immunity is why Jason can easily be bashed around and toyed with

That coupled with Jasons  attacks barely causing counsellors to flinch, while counsellors attack leave Jason on his ass or standing still for 5 -10 seconds. And that is BACKWARDS.
 

The shit i get away with now are thing that would have got me instantly killed prior to the engine upgrade

 

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5 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

This has nothing do with spamming grab and everything to with the current state of the game. 

Shitty grab radius, slow grab recovery, broken block mechanic , too many heals and no stun immunity is why Jason can easily be bashed around and toyed with

That coupled with Jasons  attacks barely causing counsellors to flinch, while counsellors attack leave Jason on his ass or standing still for 5 -10 seconds. And that is BACKWARDS.
 

The shit i get away with now are thing that would have got me instantly killed prior to the engine upgrade

 

Grab radius is fine the way it is currently. The problem is that a counselor can easily go to the side to avoid a grab. The grab should auto lock onto a counselor honestly. The actual length of the grab shouldn’t extend past Jason’s fingers. It is the same distance it was prior to the engine upgrade. It doesn’t look that way because it doesn’t extend past the fingers, but remember that his grab is a lunge. Agreed that his grab recovery should be faster.

The counselors not flinching has always been in the game. It’s been that way since the release. Jason doesn’t flinch when he is attacked and not stunned and neither do counselors. Both should have a slight recoil when hit with a weapon, with the counselors recoil being longer than Jason’s. Med sprays have been nerfed by the way.

Jason can be punished for spamming grab. He shouldn’t be able to spam the grab button anyways. I hated his old grab animation, it wasn’t intimidating and everytime he would miss a grab and spin it made him look like a ballerina. Not to mention it had no lunge, which made it so people complained about the grab but now people say the grab has been nerfed...but it hasn’t, it just got a lunge. If he had a shorter recovery time with the newer grab it would be a lot better than it is now.

Again, it isn’t a competitive game and it will never be perfect. I don’t take it too seriously like some people do.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

Grab radius is fine the way it is currently. The problem is that a counselor can easily go to the side to avoid a grab.

 

......... You're proving my point..lol

Grab radius is so small, that its easy to avoid. 

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18 minutes ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

Again, it isn’t a competitive game and it will never be perfect. I don’t take it too seriously like some people do.

No one should be taking this game seriously in a sense where they are beaten or otherwise, outplayed, which is why I find is so humorous when people get salty, whether dying as counselor and especially dying as Jason :P.  I really don't care if I survive as counselor, there isn't any ranking system, and I play to have my impact on the match felt and to be satisfied with my play.  Playing for those reasons is fun for me and why I play like a "try-hard".

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4 hours ago, F13 Fail said:

Seems like he just cares too much. You're playing a game, he's playing life.

Agreed he does talk like it’s his life LOL! 

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2 minutes ago, NytmereZ said:

Agreed he does talk like it’s his life LOL! 

Lol, hey man, this is a game forum.  What else am I going to talk about here?

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1 hour ago, GeneiJin said:

Yea, perhaps it's because we both sub-main Jenny, lol. 

I think the point&click nature of the new grab is fine, as it now requires thought-out reads and timing to use rather than just spamming it.  I do agree it's recovery should be quicker (it should still be punishable, but not THAT punishable), but I believe the biggest issues with it was the removal of "body-shielding".  That effectively widened the spacing counselors need to keep within each other, not to mention making proper saves trivial.  Grab has always been limited against groups, now effectively rendering it almost useless there against any skill level.  My guess the devs removed shielding due to complains of shitty hit detection.  Very lazy way to address it.

The mechanics of the stun system and how it conceptually works is just fine, but I do agree that it needs some tweaks to iron out a lot of it''s jank.

I didn't fear Jason with that grab back then, I'm not going to fear him if they brought it back.

Of course you don’t fear Jason , I can bet my life you main Vanessa with the med perk, , I can also bet you are still unimployed and still a virgin.

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49 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

This has nothing do with spamming grab and everything to with the current state of the game. 

Shitty grab radius, slow grab recovery, broken block mechanic , too many heals and no stun immunity is why Jason can easily be bashed around and toyed with

That coupled with Jasons  attacks barely causing counsellors to flinch, while counsellors attack leave Jason on his ass or standing still for 5 -10 seconds. And that is BACKWARDS.
 

The shit i get away with now are thing that would have got me instantly killed prior to the engine upgrade

 

You need to stop trying to talk reason with these 2 , they don’t get what Friday the 13th is supposed to be, and sadly the kind of people the devs catered to.

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25 minutes ago, NytmereZ said:

Of course you don’t fear Jason , I can bet my life you main Vanessa with the med perk, , I can also bet you are still unimployed and still a virgin.

 Wow bro, I give a opinion that contrasts your own, and you target my personal life, something you know nothing of, when I've shown no hostility to you or any one here with opposing view.  You sir are a unpleasant human being.  FYI, until recently I was in a consistant relationship transitioning though 4 girls starting from Jr. High about 10 years and I'm leaving for work in about 2 hours from now.

19 minutes ago, NytmereZ said:

You need to stop trying to talk reason with these 2 , they don’t get what Friday the 13th is supposed to be, and sadly the kind of people the devs catered to.

Doesn't matter what you think or whatever the devs originally intend.  Anyone who buys this game can play it, and they will bring their own gaming culture with them.  Instead of living in you own idealistic vision , I recommending being realistic and play in private matches.  Otherwise you will continue to be disappointed in something you don't have any control of.

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1 hour ago, NytmereZ said:

You need to stop trying to talk reason with these 2 , they don’t get what Friday the 13th is supposed to be, and sadly the kind of people the devs catered to.

Just because we know how the game works and can actually play the game as it is as both Jason and counselor and not bitch and moan about nerfs and buffs doesn’t make our opinions any less valid then yours. Just the simple fact that you’re using “unemployed and virgin” as an insult on a game forum shows that you don’t know how to state you opinion without getting personal. Get a life and stop make personal jabs at people who have a different opinion than you ??‍♂

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1 hour ago, HuDawg said:

......... You're proving my point..lol

Grab radius is so small, that its easy to avoid. 

I may have gotten confused over the lunge vs the radius. The actual distance that Jason lunges at a counselor is fine as it is. What Jason needs is an auto-lock onto the counselor because he is locked into the grab animation once he lunges. Jason should move in the same direction the counselor is while attempting a grab.

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59 minutes ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

Just because we know how the game works and can actually play the game as it is as both Jason and counselor and not bitch and moan about nerfs and buffs doesn’t make our opinions any less valid then yours. Just the simple fact that you’re using “unemployed and virgin” as an insult on a game forum shows that you don’t know how to state you opinion without getting personal. Get a life and stop make personal jabs at people who have a different opinion than you ??‍♂

You know how the game works after the devs catered to cry baby counselor mains like yourself , I backed this game(did you? Or course you didn’t) I also am a 150 level who kills the whole lobby 9 times out of 10, as a counselor I never hit Jason anymore, it’s to easy to knock him on his ass, especially now that the game is not maintained.(do you know what memory leaks do to a game?) The fire poker and piece of wood knock Jason on his ass.

The comments about being a virgin apply to you as well, it’s not an attack it is a personal observation that is probably correct, now go act like the thin skinned virgin you are and report me LOL!

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6 minutes ago, NytmereZ said:

You know how the game works after the devs catered to cry baby counselor mains like yourself , I backed this game(did you? Or course you didn’t) I also am a 150 level who kills the whole lobby 9 times out of 10, as a counselor I never hit Jason anymore, it’s to easy to knock him on his ass, especially now that the game is not maintained.(do you know what memory leaks do to a game?) The fire poker and piece of wood knock Jason on his ass.

The comments about being a virgin apply to you as well, it’s not an attack it is a personal observation that is probably correct, now go act like the thin skinned virgin you are and report me LOL!

You do know we are all counselor mains right? We all play counselor 9/10 matches because being Jason isn’t guaranteed you dumbass. I DID back the game and I have been here since the beta but you wouldn’t know that would you? Level doesn’t mean anything, you can be a shitty Jason at Level 150. I’ll gladly be the 1/10 that you don’t kill because I’ll take your ass for a 12 minute loop around Crystal Lake while you stay screaming at the screen because you don’t have to skill to catch me Mr. “I backed the game so I’m a badass Jason” ?

I don’t care whether you backed the game or not, you’re being a moron by bringing up garbage that doesn’t relate to the topic.

Good to know you take personal jabs due to people’s opinion getting under your skin. No need to report you when you’re only doing damage to your own self by not talking about the game and making personal jabs like an idiot. Again...get yourself a life, it’s free ??‍♂

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1 hour ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

I may have gotten confused over the lunge vs the radius. The actual distance that Jason lunges at a counselor is fine as it is. What Jason needs is an auto-lock onto the counselor because he is locked into the grab animation once he lunges. Jason should move in the same direction the counselor is while attempting a grab.

Ya , radius to me is the width. Personally i dont think auto lock should exist, not sure why counsellors can do it in cs.

Trading hits with Jason is my biggest issue.  If anything a Jason mele hit should disarm counsellors. That way, it actually rewards the player who land the 1st attack.

Stuns also needs to be toned down. Either a angle at all times working CS block or a few seconds of stun immunity.

Heals need also need to be toned down... Too many and too quickly used.

 

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On 9/1/2018 at 11:35 PM, GeneiJin said:

Balance exists in all games. Even if it was something like 80/20 in killers favor, that would be the "balance", though a skewed one.  The devs have to find a balance that would ensure fun for both sides.  The balance isn't entirely bad, I'd say about 45/55 in counselor's favor, maybe at worst 40/60.  The more exposing factor however is the average counselor play is better than the average Jason, which makes sense since we spent most of our time here playing counselor.  Jason also is harder to play both in functionality and decisions to consider.  The reasons we see Jason pinata is because they are more "basic" Jasons out there than good ones these days.

I agree entirely with this^^^ I think the game is fun as jason or as a counselor at this point. I'm ok with killing 5 out of 7 against skilled players. For all of you wanting their jason rounds to be "auto-win" there is always bots... They act more like the teens from the films anyway lol.

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17 minutes ago, VoorheesGt101 said:

I agree entirely with this^^^ I think the game is fun as jason or as a counselor at this point. I'm ok with killing 5 out of 7 against skilled players. For all of you wanting their jason rounds to be "auto-win" there is always bots... They act more like the teens from the films anyway lol.

 

I don' see how not allowing Jason to be layed out so easily turns into 'auto wins'.   

 

 

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Jesus this turned ugly. Nobody gives a damn if you backed the game or not. It doesn't make your opinions more valid then anyone else's.

As for the if you don't agree with my thinking so you're not a real fan bullshit, just stop already. People can still be "real fans" and not demand perfect movie accuracy. Anybody wanting to argue Jason getting layed out isn't okay because he was an unstoppable beast in the films is wrong. He got his ass beat at the end of almost every movie. Now yes, the argument can be made that was only done by the final girl and therefore only one person should be able to do that. However I feel like each counselor is a potential final girl and could be the one to topple Jason.

While some issues need to be addressed for a better balancing of the game, at least come with proper arguments for why it should change that way. Rather then I'm a "real fan" therefore my opinion is all that matters.

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8 hours ago, thrawn3054 said:

Anybody wanting to argue Jason getting layed out isn't okay because he was an unstoppable beast in the films is wrong. He got his ass beat at the end of almost every movie.

Then this where is line is drawn.

I think anyone who looks at the current state of Jason vs Counselor and thinks its fine is WRONG.

I have no issues with Jason being able to get stunned.  But sure as hell not consistently and easily,  It looks stupid.  And i sure as hell don't remember Jason getting layed out for half the film.  

Last night I had the pleasure of watching a good Jason get 5 vs 1 at the four door for 10 mins straight..  Non stop stuns, pulling people out of the car.. stuns..  more pull out of cars..and more stuns. Over 10 mins of this crap before the Jason player started to kill them.  At one point he was just body blocking the drivers side of the car while getting stunned.   All the while counselors are healing (extending this crap) and dancing and T bagging the whole time till they died.

That is bullshit^...   And that shit should not be able to happen.   What dragged on for 10+ mins should have been over in  a min or two.    

 

 

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9 hours ago, thrawn3054 said:

Jesus this turned ugly. Nobody gives a damn if you backed the game or not. It doesn't make your opinions more valid then anyone else's.

As for the if you don't agree with my thinking so you're not a real fan bullshit, just stop already. People can still be "real fans" and not demand perfect movie accuracy. Anybody wanting to argue Jason getting layed out isn't okay because he was an unstoppable beast in the films is wrong. He got his ass beat at the end of almost every movie. Now yes, the argument can be made that was only done by the final girl and therefore only one person should be able to do that. However I feel like each counselor is a potential final girl and could be the one to topple Jason.

While some issues need to be addressed for a better balancing of the game, at least come with proper arguments for why it should change that way. Rather then I'm a "real fan" therefore my opinion is all that matters.

Just ignore the ugliness...not worth anybody’s breath.

The final girl always came out on top and at the VERY least one person survived the movie, which is why I don’t understand people feeling entitled to getting an 8/8 when Jason never killed everybody in the movies. He was unstoppable because he went through over half the movie sneaking up on people and not being noticed. He very rarely look people on head on, he caught them by surprise. Which is why stalk kinda needs a huge buff, Jason shouldn’t be as easily noticed. I can pull off a final girl run almost every round I play because I know what i’m doing plain and simple. Call it cocky if you want but after almost a year and a half playing this game it has become second nature and any good counselor has a big chance of escaping or outlasting the clock. Of course a good counselor is going to wreck a newbie Jason’s world. Although a good Jason can easily get an 8/8.

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45 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Then this where is line is drawn.

I think anyone who looks at the current state of Jason vs Counselor and thinks its fine is WRONG.

I have no issues with Jason being able to get stunned.  But sure as hell not consistently and easily,  It looks stupid.  And i sure as hell don't remember Jason getting layed out for half the film.  

Last night I had the pleasure of watching a good Jason get 5 vs 1 at the four door for 10 mins straight..  Non stop stuns, pulling people out of the car.. stuns..  more pull out of cars..and more stuns. Over 10 mins of this crap before the Jason player started to kill them.  At one point he was just body blocking the drivers side of the car while getting stunned.   All the while counselors are healing (extending this crap) and dancing and T bagging the whole time till they died.

That is bullshit^...   And that shit should not be able to happen.   What dragged on for 10+ mins should have been over in  a min or two.    

 

 

Jason vs counselor is pretty balanced

Jason vs MULTIPLE counselors is unbalanced. What do you suggest would happen in the car situation though. There isn’t much to do. I agree that getting chain stunned at the car is annoying but I can’t really think of much that could change that sadly. 

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1 hour ago, HuDawg said:

Then this where is line is drawn.

I think anyone who looks at the current state of Jason vs Counselor and thinks its fine is WRONG.

I have no issues with Jason being able to get stunned.  But sure as hell not consistently and easily,  It looks stupid.  And i sure as hell don't remember Jason getting layed out for half the film.  

Last night I had the pleasure of watching a good Jason get 5 vs 1 at the four door for 10 mins straight..  Non stop stuns, pulling people out of the car.. stuns..  more pull out of cars..and more stuns. Over 10 mins of this crap before the Jason player started to kill them.  At one point he was just body blocking the drivers side of the car while getting stunned.   All the while counselors are healing (extending this crap) and dancing and T bagging the whole time till they died.

That is bullshit^...   And that shit should not be able to happen.   What dragged on for 10+ mins should have been over in  a min or two.    

 

 

I didn't say that he should be getting constantly laid out. I said using the movies to argue his unstoppable status simply isn't true. I'm all for giving Jason a few buffs to help him deal with mobs. By all means give him a 5 second immunity after coming out of a stun. Hell if they gave him an increased stun resistance for each counselor within a certain radius above 1 I'd be fine with that too.

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41 minutes ago, JennyMyers1984 said:

Jason vs counselor is pretty balanced

Jason vs MULTIPLE counselors is unbalanced. What do you suggest would happen in the car situation though. There isn’t much to do. I agree that getting chain stunned at the car is annoying but I can’t really think of much that could change that sadly. 

I don't see how Jason vs Counselor is even remotely close to balanced.   Especially considering the next line you state how VS multiple counselors its unbalanced.  Since the whole reasons its unbalanced vs multiple counselors is due to how broken and unbalanced Jason vs ONE counselor is in the 1st place.

I can think of many things that can be alter to fix thiso..  Hell i already listed them all.   Im not saying all of what i listed should happen, but some of it would cure the idiotic stun/mockery that happens in the game.

Jason should be stun immune for a short time after getting stunned.  Jason landing a melee attack should disarm counselors on the spot.  Healing time should be as long Jasons stun time.     Block in combat stance should actually work, from all angles all the time.

 

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10 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

I don't see how Jason vs Counselor is even remotely close to balanced.   Especially considering the next line you state how VS multiple counselors its unbalanced.  Since the whole reasons its unbalanced vs multiple counselors is due to how broken and unbalanced Jason vs ONE counselor is in the 1st place.

I can think of many things that can be alter to fix this and easy it easy to do..  Hell i already listed them all.   Im not saying all of what i listed should happen, but some of it would cure the idiotic stun/mockery that happens in the game.

Jason should be stun immune for a short time after getting stunned.  Jason landing a melee attack should disarm counselors on the spot.  Healing time should be as long as long as Jasons stun time.     Block in combat stance should actually work, from all angles all the time.

 

It’s simple...power in numbers. You’re gonna have an easier time catching one Vanessa than five Vanessa players ganging up on you. Not that hard to realize that Jason vs one counselor is more balanced than Jason vs multiple counselors.

Jason IS already immuned to stuns after being stunned. He cannot get to his feet and immediately be stunned by a melee weapon. I don’t know how long you’ve been playing but do you remember at launch when Jason would be stunned by a knife and he would pull it out and the Jason players screen would be slightly blurry and he could only walk for a very short time? He had a short stun immunity. It is still in effect now, the screen just isn’t blurry and Jason can actually attack. It is about a 4-5 second stun immunity. I’d be all for buffing it slightly. Although just know that Jason already has a short stun immunity. He cannot be chain stunned by a melee weapon.

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