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Riot_Dame

I’m not leaving but...

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okay, but you understand then that things can be read and taken in a more offensive tone then what they were meant to be? have you sat there and thought about maybe you guys are taking some of the stuff more offensive or serious than it was intended to be? because reading that paragraph about myself i could’ve taken it as “you don’t even post here, your opinion doesn’t matter” but i was reasonable and knew that’s not what you meant. because i think you’re taking some of the stuff i said more serious or unreasonable than i intended for them to be. 

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4 minutes ago, Kodiak said:

@Official_Adam_W I'll tell you what I told you before. There are things that aren't listed in the rules that we have to use our best judgment for. That's the only thing you need to concern yourself with.

@Riot_Dame, no. People wanted some transparency, so there's some transparency.

I actually liked your post,Kodiak. I feel a bit left out but at the same time please just shoot the shit with the community every now and then. The thing that's easy to forget is that you and jpops are people too that are just as effected by all this shit going. It's especially easy to forget when you guys go full robocop on the forums and most of what we see are either locking/deleting threads or pms of the one time someone got the better of you. We're all adults and this has all affected us deeply and differently but please do what the community manager should be and just engage us. Believe me when I say I've been in your shoes and had people calling me a fuckwit to my face for 9 hours straight. ( I work for customer service ) it gets tiring and I don't care what amount of patience you have it goes out the door pretty quick but I will say that the times people have insulted you in pms I have seen you throw some things back but you never abused your power by banning someone over it. If I could lend a machete to your intellectual thicket though, if it were me I would moderate but at the same time I'd leave the parts of a post I could with a clear edit and reason like"took out the abusive stuff" but leave the post mostly intact so that people can see why it was edited. With half the posts missing peoples mind's wander to strange places as I'm sure you know, that's how some of the crackpot conspiracies get pulled out of someone's ass. Make sense?

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Yeah of course it makes sense, but do bear in mind that sometimes a user has already had multiple warnings for it before and then they keep doing it anyway.

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10 minutes ago, Kodiak said:

Yeah of course it makes sense, but do bear in mind that sometimes a user has already had multiple warnings for it before and then they keep doing it anyway.

I feel you there but again take out what you need a put the reason ie spam, had multiple warnings suspension/ban. It lets us see your thought process and also let's it be known you're not doing it to be a dick which is easily inferred by today's community. Most of what people say I think is misconstrued because on a forum we can't hear voice inflection or see someone rolls their eyes kind of like how you say if you have a problem pm me. Most people that are mad would take that as a challenge to go and try to vent all over you rather than saying I want to try to get somewhere and work this problem out. Then you have all this anger directed at you guys, I know shifty and Wes have said no new content and all but EVEN just dropping by to say hi every now and again would do wonders because this is essentially a giant PR problem the misquoted, theories and all of that would be squashed if gun would put up a statement,  meet them head on and say "uh no this is bullshit and here is why, *insert proof* yes we are still here." Even something to the effect of a ama within reason. If the conversation is civilized I don't see why we can't knock out the misunderstandings one at a time and take the ammo out of all of this speculation.

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If I do that for every single post, then people will start posting whatever they like and they'll assume 'oh it's okay, Kodiak will just edit it for me anyway even if I post something abusive'.

It's appropriate in some circumstances but it's not for all.

Also as a side note, I've literally taken hours out of my busy day today to try and address everyone's problems. I didn't have to, it's not part of my job, but I've chosen to. Hopefully someone will appreciate that.

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19 minutes ago, Kodiak said:

If I do that for every single post, then people will start posting whatever they like and they'll assume 'oh it's okay, Kodiak will just edit it for me anyway even if I post something abusive'.

It's appropriate in some circumstances but it's not for all.

No not for all circumstances but it also puts up a track record and in the long run will also make less work because people can clearly see "well they were warned and it does add up." Right now people want to vent and they are looking for a bad guy. Something or someone they can blame for everything. Even I fell into this pit, it happens. I get it but at the same time it's majority a pr issue. Just talk to us guys. Even a post from shifty would do wonders. A simple update like "hey guys, still working hard" that sort of thing. Also sorry I edit my posts alot. I sometimes randomly think of something to add. Basically what I'm saying is do it for the first couple of posts and then progress. Mostly what I want to see is a descalation of the US vs them attitude and actually get on the path to mending this great community and repairing the negative environment here. It's a tough road but it can be done.

 

Not only do I appreciate it, I made these posts because of that. I see your trying, I appreciate it and not only want it to continue but I want to foster this same kind of dialogue with the other mods/devs. It's why I'm extending an olive branch so to speak.

So yes, I do appreciate it and thank you for your time. I see it thrown in yours and other mods faces that your position is unpaid but it goes to show that you do care enough to try to at least clear the air. It matters to me personally and once again thank you.

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2 hours ago, Kodiak said:

You're essentially implying you want him banned or his admin position stripped because he made the first mistake I ever recall seeing him make. He's a person too you know, he apologized publicly. What else do you want? Is sorry not good enough for you? Give the man a break, we've all been under stress recently with all of the stuff that's been happening here. It's hard for us right now. Everyone makes mistakes but things are just made worse when people won't even accept apologies.

We do follow the rules, one isolated incident doesn't mean we're damned forever. We're always fair and usually quite nice when we're not being called assholes every 5 minutes.

did you actually read anything i posted? I've never strip him of his admin or ban him, i'm saying he should have been put on time out, just like others, it would have gone a long way to show, the rules are indeed the rules, that's what i've said time and time again.

see this is where you get in trouble, you are inferring things i've never said, and putting your own spin on it, cause you are angry that i brought it up, or at least is seems that way with your terse responses to me.

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4 minutes ago, 2moar said:

did you actually read anything i posted? I've never strip him of his admin or ban him, i'm saying he should have been put on time out, just like others, it would have gone a long way to show, the rules are indeed the rules, that's what i've said time and time again.

see this is where you get in trouble, you are inferring things i've never said, and putting your own spin on it, cause you are angry that i brought it up, or at least is seems that way with your terse responses to me.

Just to play devil's advocate I don't think Kodiak could put him in timeout jpops is an admin and Kodiak is a moderator. The call would have to come from higher up and they thought reprimanding was enough. Its kind of like telling a cashier you don't like store policy. They'll probably listen. But can they do anything about it?

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3 minutes ago, Evil said:

 Its kind of like telling a cashier you don't like store policy. They'll probably listen. But can they do anything about it?

Short the drawer for a couple of weeks then quit.. 😵

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see, you are missing the point too, i never expected Kodiak or thought he could do stuff, My point being the rules aren't the rules when it comes to some users. And stuff not being the rules, but it being enforced, and how that can and did lead to some the us vs them that is going on

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7 minutes ago, 2moar said:

see, you are missing the point too, i never expected Kodiak or thought he could do stuff, My point being the rules aren't the rules when it comes to some users. And stuff not being the rules, but it being enforced, and how that can and did lead to some the us vs them that is going on

But see you are missing my point as well, for him it's rules are rules for things he can control with an exception here or there for what he considers extenuating circumstances. Some things though he can't control. As a former moderator of 10+ years you own mistakes as a team and defend your team regardless of your feelings. Complaints would be better served at the admins. They may listen, they may not.

Also I see what you're saying. Things were mishandled but we're all human Right? Except @The Wolf with that Toast. He is a wolf.

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I'd rather voice my displeasure at someone who will read it and maybe pass it on, vs yelling at a brickwall,

and by bringing it up to a mod who has posted rules are rules, and has said its not proven the rules aren't the same for everyone, that maybe it might enlighten him and them to why some people feel the way they do.

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42 minutes ago, Kodiak said:

Hopefully someone will appreciate that.

Even I appreciated that Kodiak. This is why I've always had respect for you. You go above and beyond. Sometimes you take it too far (as we all do), but you say what's on your mind and keep it respectful (enough). You've taken the time to explain your take on things and shown some members why these things are happening.

I'm still not sure how I feel about the forums anymore. This place turned into a shit show really fast, and the silence from the only people that CAN change it has only made things worse. I'm still not too fond of the devs right now, but I've calmed down a bit. You can thank @NthnButAGoodTime for that (really glad I talked to you).

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1 minute ago, 2moar said:

I'd rather voice my displeasure at someone who will read it and maybe pass it on, vs yelling at a brickwall,

and by bringing it up to a mod who has posted rules are rules, and has said its not proven the rules aren't the same for everyone, that maybe it might enlighten him and them to why some people feel the way they do.

Alright how about this: there is literally a rule that says "sometimes things happen that aren't accounted for and it is left to the staff team to sort". Check it in the rules section for yourself.

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1 minute ago, Kodiak said:

Alright how about this: there is literally a rule that says "sometimes things happen that aren't accounted for and it is left to the staff team to sort". Check it in the rules section for yourself.

i'm not sure if you are missing the point on purpose or what, but like i said this is all about showing why things like happened, and why people feel the way they do, and if you can't see that, that's even more reason why people are having the issues with the mod team.

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5 minutes ago, 2moar said:

I'd rather voice my displeasure at someone who will read it and maybe pass it on, vs yelling at a brickwall,

and by bringing it up to a mod who has posted rules are rules, and has said its not proven the rules aren't the same for everyone, that maybe it might enlighten him and them to why some people feel the way they do.

What does it matter though if all they do is pass it along to the brick wall? I'm not trying to be a prick I am only saying what's the point? The person who read it can't act on it. I agree with you though and have offered some solutions but it's up to them to use them.

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i'm mean if he is going to whine and complain about people acting out and all that in going away threads that dont need that.,  I thought it might be helpful to give some insight and understanding why people feel like they do about certain stuff, and frankly i think i've been calm and nice about it, as opposed to his terse and angry tone today, and refusing to read what is posted, and instead responded to what he thinks i meant, when i've posted exactly and as clearly as i can what i mean.

And I'd assume the forum staff has at least a little more interaction with gun staff.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, 2moar said:

i'm mean if he is going to whine and complain about people acting out and all that in going away threads that dont need that.,  I thought it might be helpful to give some insight and understanding why people feel like they do about certain stuff, and frankly i think i've been calm and nice about it, as opposed to his terse and angry tone today, and refusing to read what is posted, and instead responded to what he thinks i meant, when i've posted exactly and as clearly as i can what i mean.

And I'd assume the forum staff has at least a little more interaction with gun staff.

Oh you absolutely have been calm clear and concise I see what you mean about offering insight and how it promotes an us vs them mentality while posting In goodbye threads, I do have to say though if you had a few weeks of people slamming you you probably wouldn't be in the best of moods either I know I wouldn't. Again. Things were mishandled but I definitely see your point and your candor is well appreciated. Thank you :)

 

it's also worth noting that this is my view of the mods. There has been censorship on the forums but I want to move past that at this point. My view on the devs/gun are completely separate though and remain unchanged. I stand by what I've said in the past. 

Edited by Evil

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Everyone here has a right to express their views. The problem is how they are expressing those views. A lot of people could do with cooling down a bit before posting anything more. There's a lot of anger, and people don't always write the most appropriate posts when they can't see things clearly. I'm saying this about both sides. Each side should try to see where the other is coming from, rather than pointing fingers, exchanging insults, and trying to make it like one side is right and the other is wrong. If you want the "us vs. them" mentality to go away, think less of it being the mods/devs vs. the forum users, and more of us all being fans of Friday the 13th. If that doesn't help, get in the game and kill a few counselors. It always works for me. If that doesn't work, find something else you love to calm you down, then come back and speak from the heart. You'll be glad you did.

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4 hours ago, 2moar said:

i'm not sure if you are missing the point on purpose or what, but like i said this is all about showing why things like happened, and why people feel the way they do, and if you can't see that, that's even more reason why people are having the issues with the mod team.

Well we can't disclose disciplinary measures for anyone so we can't really say why things happen either. 

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6 hours ago, Kodiak said:

Well we can't disclose disciplinary measures for anyone so we can't really say why things happen either. 

dude, you should just stop, because you are just making yourself look horrible, as other people have said my point couldn't be clearer and you keep missing it.

It feels like you are trying to troll me and make me call you a name, which wont work. 

So either you miss the point completely, and that shows a lot, and confirms what a lot people know and feel, or you are doing it on purpose and that shows a lot and confirms stuff too.

And this all goes back to another point of mine, Mods are just making it worse by posting in goodbye topics, you haven't done anything here today to quell anything. You've gotten angry, and did one of the 2 things posted above.

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6 hours ago, 2moar said:

dude, you should just stop, because you are just making yourself look horrible, as other people have said my point couldn't be clearer and you keep missing it.

It feels like you are trying to troll me and make me call you a name, which wont work. 

So either you miss the point completely, and that shows a lot, and confirms what a lot people know and feel, or you are doing it on purpose and that shows a lot and confirms stuff too.

And this all goes back to another point of mine, Mods are just making it worse by posting in goodbye topics, you haven't done anything here today to quell anything. You've gotten angry, and did one of the 2 things posted above.

Then get to the bloody point and tell me what it is you keep pestering for. Stop beating about the bush and wasting my time.

"This is about showing why things happened" well clearly it's not because I addressed that.

"Mods shouldn't be posting in goodbye topics" I addressed that as well.

"I'd assume mods have interaction with Gun staff", yes we do but we're not your personal message bearers. If they want to talk to you they will when they want to, I'm not going to pester any of them on anyone else's behalf.

Stop being cryptic and tell me what exactly it is you keep complaining about that I apparently keep missing. If you want an answer then tell me what your problem is; I'm not playing a guessing game of 'Guess the issue if you get it right because 2moar says you're an idiot if you don't'.

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Woah.. What happened here? I decided to do a little visit here ever since I left and I'm looking at these pages on this thread. 

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@Kodiak im fairly new to the forum(started sometime in march) but one i first got on i saw you @JPops and @NthnButAGoodTime reply in alot of posts givin support of that thread or even offering words of advice which i totally admire in a support staff. but with the things that have happened lately and the divide in the forum. in my opinion it just seems that maybe gun dont care about the community or the forum. if was them and i saw the abuse my support staff was taking(whether it was warranted or not) i would step in and post something to the point of standing behind you guys and your decisions. instead of letting every scream censorship or favoritism. hopefully i worded this appropriately and dont come off as insulting  

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