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Hugh D Paul

The Balance Between Jason Voorhees & The Camp Counselors

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1 minute ago, AdmiralJT said:

Are you implying I've never played the game?

Read it again. 

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1 minute ago, TiffanyIsBae said:

Read it again. 

I did, twice,

You wrote my name and said someone who has never played the game.

WTF?

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2 minutes ago, TiffanyIsBae said:

Read it again. 

I think you should. Tiffanycakes said , that they (probably us) are assholes. Admiral asked who are These assholes. You then said Pretty much , assholes who never Play the game.

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4 hours ago, Hugh D Paul said:

While this statement may be true, it does not prove that the counselors are overpowered. You’re right: if multiple, high-level counselors are playing against an inexperienced Jason, the counselors will most likely have the upper hand. But in a normal quick play lobby, which is what balance is designed for, Jason has the advantage over the counselors. I have killed Jason multiple times in a random lobby, with random players, and in such occasions the Jason is normally low/mid-range level. But I have yet to be killed as Jason. This once again goes back to the skill level and communication of the counselors, not the base, normal-matches that balance is necessary for.

 

3 hours ago, Ahab said:

@Hugh D PaulThe balance is pretty good right now, neither counselors nor Jason need any real buffs or nerfs in my opinion. But some tweaks are still called for, mostly to the wonky combat stance / combat system. Pinata Jason is still a problem that needs to be addressed, as is the ease of removing Jason's mask, making the kill pretty easy when it should at least be a challenge. Both of these issues have been discussed in great length in other threads though.
   Sorry for the length of the post again, but I wanted to address each of your points.

The balance now is clearly in counselors favor.  @Ahab I normal agree with you, but Jason does need buffs to deal with mob effectively.  I do agree that Pinata Jason is in full force again.  As it stand, if you have a lobby with 3-5 knowledge, skilled players, and their only goal is to see Jason dead, the ONLY reliable defense against it is to secure the Tommy call cabin.  It is a race to who gets to it first.  Luckly for me, most J-kill squad prioritize looting for PK and sprays over the call first, which allow me 2 morphs to guess the right powerbox.  Sometimes I'm clued in though the cut scene if I'm lucky.  This is why when I'm counselor, I see the Radio house, I get that call off with the quickness, because once Jason gets control of it, the entire Kill-squad can easily die just trying to get that call.  However, if the Kill-squad gets the call off, all then need to do is stay together, CS-block whenever Jason shows up and punish with machetes and bats until the mask comes off, then wait for Tommy (they can "pick" the Tommy by suicide if that is a option).  Against a mod staying glued that is waiting for Jason to make a offense, there isn't much he can do.  Of course, Jason also just block the shack's door or stay in the waters, but I feel it goes against what it means to be a killer, and I'd rather risk playing the game by tricking them into using the sweater under bad circumstance.  I rather die experimenting with a "sweater fail" setup rather than just being a pussy.

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@GeneiJin I am here agreeing with you though... but some tweaks we have talked about before just to the combat system and to the stance itself could be enough for Jason to deal with groups effectively... and these would still technically be called buffs... even though I call them tweaks here. I was never suggesting a tweak to make combat more powerful for counselors, just easier for Jason to deal with groups... yet not impossible for a group to face Jason either.
   I think the balance is still in a pretty good place right now (I am not saying it is perfect)... too much one way or the other could be the wrong thing to do. There have been many suggestions on buffs for Jason to deal with groups... some of which, with how the game currently sits, may be a bit much.

   The good old "stop tommy from being called" strategy can and does work.... unless you have even one player that spawns next to the Tommy house and makes the call immediately. Many times I have found the right power box on my first attempt... then Tommy showed up. Upon returning to the box for the radio house, I often find it is still smashed. Someone will pretty much always spawn near the Tommy house... whether you can stop it at all depends on what that player does in the first 15 seconds of the match. As Jason, you do not know if Tommy has even been called until he shows up. I agree that it is still worth trying to stop the call... the lack of power also has the added bonus of building counselor's fear quicker... so it is still worth keeping the power out even if the call was made.
   Those times we see the radio tower in the background during the opening cutscenes is just one of many reasons why I always have the map perk on every counselor... it can come in handy very early on... and for many more reasons than just this one. The fear resistance is just a nice bonus. Even though I do not go for the Jason kill very often, I still want to see that call to Tommy made as early as possible. Tommy is usually a big help to the team whether they go for the Jason kill or not. I always keeping an eye out for that tower until I see that he has been called... and I know where all of the power boxes spawn, it never takes long to find them if the power was knocked out. When I want that call made to Tommy, more often then not, Tommy will be called... regardless of the Jason players skill and knowledge of how to play the game.
   Either way, Jason has to work for it... I will make him work for it... and I know you do as well... But as Jason players... playing against good players can still be more difficult than many people think. It is not a challenge when playing against new players... but against good players... each game has its own difficulties and no tactic works in every match... at least not quite the way you wanted it to work....
   Keep fighting the good fight... from both sides of play!

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When Jason gets rage you can jog without making sound pings so if you can break jason's line of sight in la big building you can hide for awhile. I find that is the most fun. I try to target the one with the least amount of luck in a group while grabbing only those with the highest (Tommy&Chad) so they can't hit me alot. If you block a weapon as it breaks you get an easier window for a grab so keep track of their hits

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If you really want to balance out Jason then make it so his music doesn’t play until half of the counselors are gone. Based off of the movies nobody knew Jason was around until there was around 3 people left. In the Final Chapter...Tommy, Trish, and Rob did not know of Jason’s presence until Rob was being killed by Jason. However I don’t know how that would work in the game because all the counselors in the beginning are aware of Jasons presence which is why they say “I have to get out of here”. Jason does not need a buff. As stated by @AdmiralJT counselors should get stronger as the match goes on. Jason worked himself into a frenzy trying to catch the last one or two counselors and eventually ended up being defeated. You can’t be pissed that you got 6/8 when Jason NEVER killed all the counselors in ANY of the movies. Jason got weaker as the movie progressed as the counselors survival instincts kicked in. There shouldn’t be a kill squad, Jason should simply have a perma-stalk until only 3 or 4 counselors remain (including Jarvis if he was called).

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Thanks for playing with us tonight @Hugh D Paul  it was fun. Sorry we popped your cherry. You did well and as you can see if a team comes at you to kill you it’s pretty hard to walk away unless some of the team fuck up. If your down to play tomorrow we will be on. We usually play every night around 8 mountain time and at random times through out the day. 

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@Jenny Myersor at least until stalk is active. That and meat shielding. Also, I might be reaching with this one - if only sharp weapons caused Jason to drop counselors in 1 hit everything else requires 2.

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16 minutes ago, F134Ever86 said:

@Jenny Myersor at least until stalk is active. That and meat shielding. Also, I might be reaching with this one - if only sharp weapons caused Jason to drop counselors in 1 hit everything else requires 2.

I always felt it a bit odd to seek out a bat over a machete but whatever.

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8 hours ago, The Wolf with that Toast said:

I think you should. Tiffanycakes said , that they (probably us) are assholes. Admiral asked who are These assholes. You then said Pretty much , assholes who never Play the game.

I don’t, Tiffany cakes was referring to a post that said counselors shouldn’t get stamina, she was talking about the assholes, which the person who made the post didn’t actually play the game. Before @AdmiralJT got offended. 

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Quick play no mics = advantage Jason

Quick play with three or four players with mics = even ground

Private Match with six other 150's with microphones = advantage Councilors 

IllFonic designed the game around what "feels right" as opposed to actual in game data. So with no META to care about the balance is severely against Jason when you have a bunch of players who know what they are doing.

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The issue is, players have gotten better.

Everyone knows shack locations.

Everyone knows how to use exploit shots to keep Jason down until his mask is off.

You don't need to take away medsprays

 

What you need to do is move the shacks once a month. To3 or 4 totally different locations every month. THAT IS THE CURE.

The only other thing you need to do is make it so Jason isn't ALWAYS stunned when hit. Don't lower it too much, just give him a chance that he won't be levelled by a baseball bat hit.

 

THATS ALL YOU NEED TO DO.

Yes, as players get better, it has become more difficult for Jason and easier for counselors, but Jason is still more powerful, you just need to take away the advantage of map familiarity.

THATS ALL YOU NEED TO DO

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4 hours ago, TiffanyIsBae said:

I don’t, Tiffany cakes was referring to a post that said counselors shouldn’t get stamina, she was talking about the assholes, which the person who made the post didn’t actually play the game. Before @AdmiralJT got offended. 

Tiffanycakes was obviously reffering to us. If you think not , who are the other ''assholes'' then? She hates us. Like seriously , she told me to die.

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1 minute ago, The Wolf with that Toast said:

Tiffanycakes was obviously reffering to us. If you think not , who are the other ''assholes'' then? She hates us. Like seriously , she told me to die.

And so you should ignore her, not keep it going. Don’t pick a fight today ok man.

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2 minutes ago, The Wolf with that Toast said:

Tiffanycakes was obviously reffering to us. If you think not , who are the other ''assholes'' then? She hates us. Like seriously , she told me to die.

Really, that's funny because I got a warning point just for telling someone to shutup they said I was being abusive.

How is it that happens but someone can directly call us assholes and tell someone to die and nothing is said about it?

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4 minutes ago, Slasher_Clone said:

And so you should ignore her, not keep it going. Don’t pick a fight today ok man.

I´ll try to don´t pick a fight. But this time I was just pointing out Tiffanyisbae.

2 minutes ago, AdmiralJT said:

Really, that's funny because I got a warning point just for telling someone to shutup they said I was being abusive.

How is it that happens but someone can directly call us assholes and tell someone to die and nothing is said about it?

Holy moly…….

@Kodiak….could you Maybe do something against Tiffanycakes?

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38 minutes ago, The Wolf with that Toast said:

I´ll try to don´t pick a fight. But this time I was just pointing out Tiffanyisbae.

Holy moly…….

@Kodiak….could you Maybe do something against Tiffanycakes?

This is a better way, sorry. Before I thought you were trying to get her to respond.

Just didn’t want you put on a vacation.

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Just now, Slasher_Clone said:

This is a better way, sorry. Before I thought you were trying to get her to respond.

Yeah , I just want that someones gives him a Little slap to get him back to his mind.

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Just now, The Wolf with that Toast said:

Yeah , I just want that someones gives him a Little slap to get him back to his mind.

He should have been already if the system worked, but I digress.

I still think balance is a bigger problem, that could only be solved using a rank system or a two mode system. One mode is basically counselor favoured, the other being Jason favoured. As is, that can’t happen so we have to adapt.

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Just now, Slasher_Clone said:

He should have been already if the system worked, but I digress.

I still think balance is a bigger problem, that could only be solved using a rank system or a two mode system. One mode is basically counselor favoured, the other being Jason favoured. As is, that can’t happen so we have to adapt. 

Almost everyone would Play counselor mode though.

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1 minute ago, The Wolf with that Toast said:

Almost everyone would Play counselor mode though.

I wouldn’t, but you have a strong argument for why the balances would have to be carefully set in the first place. In Counselor Mode it would be hard mode for Jason, in Jason mode it’s hard mode for Counselors. But in my mind that means most players who want to do objectives and get out would migrate to the Jason mode, while people who like to dance or mess around have the Counselor Mode to do it in. Change the time limit in the Jason mode to 12 to 15, give him all his powers at the start but refresh slower till they’d normally unlock. It could have been fun.

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7 minutes ago, Slasher_Clone said:

I wouldn’t, but you have a strong argument for why the balances would have to be carefully set in the first place. In Counselor Mode it would be hard mode for Jason, in Jason mode it’s hard mode for Counselors. But in my mind that means most players who want to do objectives and get out would migrate to the Jason mode, while people who like to dance or mess around have the Counselor Mode to do it in. Change the time limit in the Jason mode to 12 to 15, give him all his powers at the start but refresh slower till they’d normally unlock. It could have been fun. 

Hmmmm….not bad actually. The Question is , how many though? Would be really cool , you´re Right.

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6 hours ago, Cer1alkill3r said:

Thanks for playing with us tonight @Hugh D Paul  it was fun. Sorry we popped your cherry. You did well and as you can see if a team comes at you to kill you it’s pretty hard to walk away unless some of the team fuck up. If your down to play tomorrow we will be on. We usually play every night around 8 mountain time and at random times through out the day. 

Sounds like you guys killed him? Lol.

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22 hours ago, thrawn3054 said:

1v1 Jason is op. Against a coordinated group he will struggle. I'm not in the camp that thinks Jason is way under powered, but he does need a bit of love. Not big drastic changes. Just a few small improvements would make all the difference. 

Changes that we will never see because they'll ostensibly fall under the categorization of "content".

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