Jump to content
Hugh D Paul

The Balance Between Jason Voorhees & The Camp Counselors

Recommended Posts

11 minutes ago, Cer1alkill3r said:

I think that the game favours councillors by far. On average we kill 4-6Jason’s a night and I play with a lobby of 4-8 people on the norm. If you play the game by just running around by yourself then yes he can be hard to escape. If you play as a team then Jason is screwed and will most likely only get 2-3 kills if he doesn’t get killed first. This is a team game and that’s what you need to be. I think that it should be harder to knock off the mask so he can actually fight off 2 or more councillors without grabbing one then getting stunned. Once the mask has been removed I think Jason’s swing and grab speed should be increased to make the kill more difficult. 

While I respect your opinion, this is what players flood the forums with when upset about the balance. I doubt that you kill 4-6 Jason’s every night, and if so then these players are not skilled at being Jason. And while most counselors team up with each other, most of them will die against a skilled Jason. My best analogy is if a level one Jason played against a level one counselor, Jason would win almost every time. Regardless of skill level, Jason has the advantage against the counselors.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Hugh D Paul said:

While I respect your opinion, this is what players flood the forums with when upset about the balance. I doubt that you kill 4-6 Jason’s every night, and if so then these players are not skilled at being Jason. And most counselors team up with each other, yet still die against a skilled Jason. My best analogy is if a level on Jason played against a level one counselor, Jason would win almost every time. Regardless of skill level, Jason has the advantage against the counselors.

Come play with us on Xbox or check my mixer videos. Crystal lake maniacs is the group and my name is A CER1AL KILL3R. You will die as Jason. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Cer1alkill3r said:

Come play with us on Xbox or check my mixer videos. Crystal lake maniacs is the group and my name is A CER1AL KILL3R. You will die as Jason. 

I’m down. My gamertag is X Hugh Paul X, I’ll add you. I have yet to be killed and would like a challenge.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Cer1alkill3r said:

Come play with us on Xbox or check my mixer videos. Crystal lake maniacs is the group and my name is A CER1AL KILL3R. You will die as Jason. 

 

3 minutes ago, Hugh D Paul said:

I’m down. My gamertag is X Hugh Paul X, I’ll add you. I have yet to be killed and would like a challenge.

As long as the balance of this game has been discussed, this is where it inevitably leads to.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, AdmiralJT said:

 

As long as the balance of this game has been discussed, this is where it inevitably leads to.

Too true. ???

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Hugh D Paul said:

While I respect your opinion, this is what players flood the forums with when upset about the balance. I doubt that you kill 4-6 Jason’s every night, and if so then these players are not skilled at being Jason. And while most counselors team up with each other, most of them will die against a skilled Jason. My best analogy is if a level one Jason played against a level one counselor, Jason would win almost every time. Regardless of skill level, Jason has the advantage against the counselors.

If you have 3 counselors dedicated to the Jason kill it's not hard. When the people I play with decide to have a kill night we get 6 or more without too much difficulty. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hunting parties usually are using discord. Jason is already at a disadvantage before he even leaves the shack. Best bet is to part 2 and throw down 7 traps and chill in the hut until sweater girl comes a calling. ?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, AdmiralJT said:

 

As long as the balance of this game has been discussed, this is where it inevitably leads to.

I added you already. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, AdmiralJT said:

To what?

Sorry that was for Hugh. We got it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, thrawn3054 said:

If you have 3 counselors dedicated to the Jason kill it's not hard. When the people I play with decide to have a kill night we get 6 or more without too much difficulty. 

While this statement may be true, it does not prove that the counselors are overpowered. You’re right: if multiple, high-level counselors are playing against an inexperienced Jason, the counselors will most likely have the upper hand. But in a normal quick play lobby, which is what balance is designed for, Jason has the advantage over the counselors. I have killed Jason multiple times in a random lobby, with random players, and in such occasions the Jason is normally low/mid-range level. But I have yet to be killed as Jason. This once again goes back to the skill level and communication of the counselors, not the base, normal-matches that balance is necessary for.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, badassgixxer05 said:

Hunting parties usually are using discoraren'tson is already at a disadvantage before he even leaves the shack. Best bet is to part 2 and throw down 7 traps and chill in the hut until sweater girl comes a calling. ?

Lol. I've had that happen. The guy had seen us do it a few times and had killed him once already. 

@Hugh D Paul 1v1 they're not. Even two decent counselors can be a big threat though. When I say we get those 6 plus kills most of them arent newbies. Alot of the time they're level 70 plus.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, thrawn3054 said:

@Hugh D Paul 1v1 they're not. Even two decent counselors can be a big threat though. When I say we get those 6 plus kills most of them arent newbies. Alot of the time they're level 70 plus.

And that is once again an example of your skill level being greater than Jason’s. I agree with you that the counselors are overpowered when playing as a high-level group. But nerfing the counselors, or buffing Jason, would only cause the average level range player (1-60) to have less of a chance at escaping. While it would make it harder for high-level counselors, it would make it nearly impossible for the average player. That is why I believe the balance is perfect as it is. (I am a level 150 jason main so I am not trying to make it easier to escape as a counselor, just stating what I believe to be true).

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Hugh D Paul said:

And that is once again an example of your skill level being greater than Jason’s. I agree with you that the counselors are overpowered when playing as a high-level group. But nerfing the counselors, or buffing Jason, would only cause the average level range player (1-60) to have less of a chance at escaping. While it would make it harder for high-level counselors, it would make it nearly impossible for the average player. That is why I believe the balance is perfect as it is. (I am a level 150 jason main so I am not trying to make it easier to escape as a counselor, just stating what I believe to be true).

I agree that a new Jason vs a new councillor would be pretty even but the learning curve on this game is pretty easy. And people learn to team up right away.  Maybe they could make adjustments to each by the level of xp in the lobby? Or by adding a difficulty bar.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Cer1alkill3r said:

I agree that a new Jason vs a new councillor would be pretty even but the learning curve on this game is pretty easy. And people learn to team up right away.  Maybe they could make adjustments to each by the level of xp in the lobby? Or by adding a difficulty bar.   

I would definitely be on board for this. Matchmaking players based on their level would also be a good solution, but we all know Gun won’t change anything players actually want. They only change things no one asked for; like window-breaking, the grab, and car physics, lol.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Hugh D Paul The 5 points you list are not the problem.
   1: With teleporting across the map, Jason would only stand a chance at protecting 1 objective (and that would be considering he could even get to it in time to protect it without a teleport)... in which case, all of the counselors would simply work on every other objective... just as they will when a noob Jason player attempts to "camp" any 1 objective. Try catching a car without using morph unless you already have it in sight while they are trying to start it (and have an active shift at the ready). Good luck with that. Try playing a game without EVER using sense against any players that actually know what they are doing. Yes.. shift is faster than counselors can run... it also has a regeneration time when you use it and hit or miss... Jason can keep up with slower counselors, but cannot catch them unless they run out of stamina or are injured. Personally, I can usually juke skilled Jason players with the slowest counselors for a very long time, and I am not the only one who can do this, there are a lot of players skilled enough to do this against Jason players that are very skilled... It is 7 against 1 in this game... the one needs some advantages to stand a chance against the 7. All matches would be extremely short with very low kill counts without these 3 abilities.

2: Destroying doors and windows takes time... a lot of time if you plan on doing this to every cabin. Just because the doors and windows are smashed does not mean the cabin is inaccessible or useless to counselors... far from it in fact. Plus, the time you waste doing this... counselors will get objectives done and escape enmasse.

3: Grab kills still require room.... except for choke and head punch, which require the least amount of room. Players that actually do not want to use one or both of these kills every time they grab a counselor... and yes, there are many... do give you a good chance to break free. I break free often... That and grabbing is only effective against a lone counselor... even with "meat shielding" in the game, which right now it is not. Smart players can still "body block" Jason from using an execution by standing in the required room for the kill and give the grabbed player more of a chance to break free, this even works for choke and head punch if you can keep yourself right in Jason's face.

4: Jason's traps are easily dealt with... requiring the Jason player to check his map often and know what to look for to see if a trap has been disarmed. Out of the nearly 500 games I have played as Jason, I have only landed "next" to a counselor twice when using morph. Morph teleports you to preset "pins" on the map... knowing where these pins are helps, but is far from a guarantee that you will land beside a counselor. Sometimes, you will morph pretty far away from where you intended. Even the notifications only help so much... its not like you can predict when you will get one, and many times you can receive a notification from across the map immediately after using morph... making it impossible to show up right away for an "easy" grab kill.

5: As stated in #4... receiving a notification is no guarantee you can immediately morph to it... nor does morphing there immediately guarantee you will have an "easy" grab kill. The car does get easier to stop with enough practice, but even the best players are still far from perfect. If the car slips by you... you will not have a second chance to stop it... considering of course, they proceed directly to the exit... getting the cops called against skilled Jason players happens all the time... I do it by myself... a lot. 

   I am not complaining about any of this and I apologize if it sounds like I am. All of this is about balance and the fact that doing anything in this game is extremely situational. No tactic works in every match. Personally, I have a nasty habit of gathering throwing knives... while I am doing this, I take the time to smash doors and windows. While this tactic is very helpful in many matches, it has cost me early escapes in the past many times as well. Wait until you play a game against players that have both cars moving before you have an active shift... I have seen this many times now from both sides of play... when the cars are full, you have one counselor left to kill... unless someone called Tommy, then you have 2.
   The balance is pretty good right now, neither counselors nor Jason need any real buffs or nerfs in my opinion. But some tweaks are still called for, mostly to the wonky combat stance / combat system. Pinata Jason is still a problem that needs to be addressed, as is the ease of removing Jason's mask, making the kill pretty easy when it should at least be a challenge. Both of these issues have been discussed in great length in other threads though.
   Sorry for the length of the post again, but I wanted to address each of your points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Ahab Thank you for sharing your opinion. I actually agree with all of your points, as I believe the balance is fine as it is. I am simply sick of people constantly complaining about how overpowered the counselors are, having no real evidence to back it up. And combat does need some fixing.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Hugh D Paul said:

@Ahab Thank you for sharing your opinion. I actually agree with all of your points, as I believe the balance is fine as it is. I am simply sick of people constantly complaining about how overpowered the counselors are, having no real evidence to back it up. And combat does need some fixing.

   I am out of likes for the day or you would have at least got a thanks for that.
   There does seem to be a lot of unwarranted complaining, and some that is warranted... Counselors can do VERY well when they have some skill and work as a team against even the best Jason players... But even that same Jason player can also do very well against these same players in another match. We all have good games and bad games... and pretty much every aspect of play is situational. One bad morph can screw Jason out of a car load (or two car loads) of counselors... but one good morph can screw the counselors out of what seemed like almost a guaranteed escape.

   Its one of the things I like about this game... even with limited maps to play on and only one mode of play in multi player.... every match is still completely different and unpredictable from both sides of play.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Its one of the things I like about this game... even with limited maps to play on and only one mode of play in multi player.... every match is still completely different and unpredictable from both sides of play.

My thoughts exactly.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Hugh D Paul said:

And that is once again an example of your skill level being greater than Jason’s. I agree with you that the counselors are overpowered when playing as a high-level group. But nerfing the counselors, or buffing Jason, would only cause the average level range player (1-60) to have less of a chance at escaping. While it would make it harder for high-level counselors, it would make it nearly impossible for the average player. That is why I believe the balance is perfect as it is. (I am a level 150 jason main so I am not trying to make it easier to escape as a counselor, just stating what I believe to be true).

I get where you're coming from. I'm not saying buff Jason to God powers. Little things would make a big difference without hurting lower level players though. Something like double Jason's hp. A Buggzy would still get the mask in about 4 hits with a machete, but it'd give Jasons a bit more room for error. His grabs a bit too narrow now. Widening it a bit would help make the grabs less punishing if missed. A slight speed increase to the animation if you miss would also help. After a stun give him a few seconds invincibility, so he has a chance to get his block up. There's probably a few more, but these are the ones off the top of my head. These are all little changes that I feel would help alot. Nothing would be over powering, just a few tweaks to keep Jason bullying in check.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Hugh D Paul said:

In almost all of the conversations pertaining to this topic, the majority of players have insisted that the counselors are overpowered. My question is:

Is this really the mindset of most people here on the forums?

In my opinion; the game’s balance is almost perfect as it is now, however, it still undeniably favors the Jason players. While many posters believe that counselors are able to win much more easily, I’d like to share my personal opinions on the balance of the game.

1. First off: Jason has the ability to teleport across the map, rapidly move over to the counselors using shift, and easily locate them using sense. The counselors, on the other hand, are able to run at a top speed slower than Jason’s shift, and can only do so for a limited amount of time due to their stamina.

2. Jason is able to easily destroy cabin doors and windows, limiting the amount of available cabins for counselors to use. Once the survivors have run out of cabins, death is basically inevitable.

3. Jason is able to kill the counselors by grabbing them, which enables him to kill them with a simple push of a button. While skilled counselors are able to dodge and evade Jason’s grab, it only takes around minute and a half to finally get them. Once grabbed, death is almost certain, unless they contain a pocket knife to break free.

4. Jason is able to trap the counselor’s escape methods, and is notified should they step into a trap. A simple morph lands you next to them, which makes for an easy grab kill that destroys their risky escape plan. Jason is also notified if a counselor meses up on a repair, which also allows for an easy grab kill.

5. Jason is notified when a counselor starts the car or calls the police, which allows him to morph over to them to either attempt to stop the car, or kill the snitch who called on him. While the car is pretty difficult to stop, a good Jason player is able to do so, while most players can guard the car well enough as to not allow it to be started. The police is Jason’s worst enemy, and I would agree that once they are called the power flips over to the counselor side. But Jason has more than enough tools to stop them from calling, and if playing correctly, the call should neve be made.

My question is: what actual facts support the counselor’s being overpowered in comparison to Jason. I would just like to know.

It’s not the councilors that people are really be bitching about...it’s the skilled players who have been playing long enough to evade even the top tier Jason’s not plus we’ve played long enough to acquire epic and legendary perks...

 

its because use of the good councilors that’s Jason mains are always calling for some type of nerf.

 

its doesnt matter how much the nerfe the councilors the typical rebuttal will generally be..”Well Jason is supposed to feel over powered “

 

Never forget there is thread on this site where these assholes are calling for Councilors to not be able to regain stam after a hit .The butthurt is real.

 

“BUFF JASON PLZ”

uhhhh they have

-no more hitting Jason’s through doors

-they start ALL Jason’s off with knives now

-stalk mode now distorts the screen which confuses the councilor

-YOU CANT HEAR JASON LAY TRAPS MOST OF THE TIME.watch your step out of windows 

-you can’t hear his footsteps in stalk mode

-they took away a lot of the bats in the game two or 3 updates ago 

-thick skin was nerfed big time 

-they had also overall minimizes the health sprays before .

-if you’re At the front of the house you can’t hear Jason break down the back door for some reason ...but we can hear a councilor die on the other side of the map but okay whatever.

-THEY MADE JASONS SPEED FASTER.

 

All of those buffs and a lot of you still want Jason to be buffed lmao...it matters little now seeing that the game hasn’t about 4 to 6 months left and regardless of all the buffs ..good players like myself win.

 

 

its not Jason....it’s not the game...people just be need to learn how to play ..

  • Confused 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, thrawn3054 said:

I get where you're coming from. I'm not saying buff Jason to God powers. Little things would make a big difference without hurting lower level players though. Something like double Jason's hp. A Buggzy would still get the mask in about 4 hits with a machete, but it'd give Jasons a bit more room for error. His grabs a bit too narrow now. Widening it a bit would help make the grabs less punishing if missed. A slight speed increase to the animation if you miss would also help. After a stun give him a few seconds invincibility, so he has a chance to get his block up. There's probably a few more, but these are the ones off the top of my head. These are all little changes that I feel would help alot. Nothing would be over powering, just a few tweaks to keep Jason bullying in check.

I could agree with those tweaks. As long as they don’t nerf counselors I’m cool.

15 minutes ago, TiffanyCakes said:

All of those buffs and a lot of you still want Jason to be buffed lmao...it matters little now seeing that the game hasn’t about 4 to 6 months left and regardless of all the buffs ..good players like myself win.

its not Jason....it’s not the game...people just be need to learn how to play..

I actually agree with you. Play the game as it is and get better if there’s something you feel is too hard.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, TiffanyCakes said:

Never forget there is thread on this site where these assholes are calling for Councilors to not be able to regain stam after a hit .The butthurt is real.

What "assholes" are you referring to?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There’s really no other way to balance Jason, besides giving him stun immunity for X seconds after being stunned. 

Jason will always be OP in a 1v1 scenario. Jason will always be weak against a team. 

With every patch Jason does become stronger, but the game becomes more unfair for certain counselors, we all know them. Balancing Jason will never be fair, and will always affect QP, where the game becomes harder to play and enjoy. 

@AdmiralJT someone who’s never even played the game ?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, TiffanyIsBae said:

@AdmiralJT someone who’s never even played the game ?

 

Are you implying I've never played the game?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×