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Hugh D Paul

The Balance Between Jason Voorhees & The Camp Counselors

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From the time of the Friday The 13th game’s official release date; forum members, physical backers, and online players alike have all argued over the same topic:

What is the balance between Jason Voorhees and the Camp Counselors?

Having two different types of playable characters in the game, individuals were bound to pick a favorite, which of course has lead us to the two distinct groups that argue about it today. With debates over both Jason and camp counselor functions being overpowered, both characters have undergone a series of nerfs, buffs, and downright useless changes that have left those of us still playing with the balance we have today. Yet the argument has continued.

Here is my personal opinion on the subject of balance, which I have come up with based on my knowledge of the game, personal experiences, and overall opinion on the matter.

1. Jason Players VS Counselor Players

Before discussing which character is more powerful, it’s important to understand how both playable characters are used in-game. While Jason players are tasked with killing the seven counselors, the counselor players are given two options: escape via the car, boat, or police; or survive until the time runs out. While escaping is a multi-step process involving repair items, car keys, and a phone box; surviving proves to be just as difficult, as Jason’s power is only strengthened as the match progresses.

2. Jason Abilities VS Counselor Abilities

Jason’s abilities consist of morph (teleport to anywhere on the map), sense (locate and track counselors), shift (fly over to counselors at a rapid pace), and stalk (sneak up on counselors). Jason also possesses the ability to grab and kill counselors, which once captured can be killed with a push of a button. Jason’s tools include traps (which can be used to trap objectives) and throwing knives (which can be used to hit running counselors). He is also able to slash counselors with his weapon, weakening and eventually killing them. He can also use his weapon to break down doors and break windows. The counselor’s abilities include running (limited by stamina), a flashlight, and a mini-map. They are able to loot cabins for survival items (maps, radios, sprays, knives, and firecrackers), weapons, and repair parts. Counselors are also able to lock cabins doors, open windows, and place bear traps to stun Jason. On paper, Jason’s abilities are far superior to the counselors, however, with there being seven counselors versus one Jason, it evens the playing field; somewhat.

3. Jason Strategies VS Counselor Strategies

While Jason strategies are pretty straightforward, counselor tactics take many different forms. Most Jason players start the game by trapping the shack, phone box, both cars, and the boat if there is one. They then proceed to kill counselors nearest to them, trying to kill them as quickly as possible. If they hear a repair or trap being stepped on, a morph lands them near and they go in for the kill. Counselor strategies are all about timing, as splitting up objectives puts pressure on Jason. Having one counselor working on the car, one on the cops, and another on the other car or boat forces Jason to choose between them, allowing at least one to be completed unless Jason cut them off. This is where the balance really makes a difference.

So now that we know the facts: which side does the current balance favor? The truth is: it depends. If a low-level Jason plays against low-level counselors Jason will have the advantage. If a high-level Jason plays against low-level counselors Jason will also have an advantage. But if a low-level Jason plays against high-level counselors, the counselors, and not the killer, will have the advantage. Ultimately, the true test of balance is between two high-level groups. The outcome of a high-level Jason playing against high-level counselors is an advantage for the counselors. This alone shows us that the counselors ultimately have the advantage over Jason, but only when working together. A counselor on their own will never have the advantage no matter what their level is. But with seven high-level cousnelors, Jason will have a hard time killing them all. And as most players are somewhat high-level at this point, I would say that the counselors do have a slight advantage. This is my honest opinion.

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I feel like it’s balanced in 1v1, as it depends on who has higher skill. But when it comes to teaming up against Jason, then it’s severly unbalanced.

 

I was fine with heal sprays at launch, I didn’t like it when we had an over abundance (remember that time?), I was ok with the health sprays abundance nerf (only in bathrooms/only a couple in drawers and campsites), but now it’s only 4 or whatever, which I guess is ok, I would prefer 5, but no more after 5 though. 

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Haven’t played the new build enough to know but I think if people play objectives then they win easily. Med sprays don’t matter if your not running from or fighting with Jason. The balance is bigger than that though, it’s more complex. We’ll see in a few weeks how it looks.

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1v1 Jason is op. Against a coordinated group he will struggle. I'm not in the camp that thinks Jason is way under powered, but he does need a bit of love. Not big drastic changes. Just a few small improvements would make all the difference. 

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I have never been in a QP where Jason was killed. I have been in teams with friends where we kill him, but not every attempt at a kill results in one. Strategy on both parts plays an integral role in success as does communication and teamwork. There is no way to say that Jason is OP or not since there are way too many variables affecting how the match will go. I have seen Jason's surrounded by counselors...take them out one by one. I have seen Jason's surrounded by counselors...die. 

 

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1 minute ago, Jasix said:

I have never been in a QP where Jason was killed. I have been in teams with friends where we kill him, but not every attempt at a kill results in one. Strategy on both parts plays an integral role in success as does communication and teamwork. There is no way to say that Jason is OP or not since there are way too many variables affecting how the match will go. I have seen Jason's surrounded by counselors...take them out one by one. I have seen Jason's surrounded by counselors...die. 

 

There’s that complexity. Player skill and circumstance play a big role.

Edit - I have been in QP an just spontaneously decided to kill Jason, it happens but not often.

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2 hours ago, Yoshman2523 said:

I feel like it’s balanced in 1v1, as it depends on who has higher skill. But when it comes to teaming up against Jason, then it’s severly unbalanced.

A 1V1 is extremely favoring of Jason. I believe it’s only balanced when a full lobby is up against him.

2 hours ago, Slasher_Clone said:

Haven’t played the new build enough to know but I think if people play objectives then they win easily. Med sprays don’t matter if your not running from or fighting with Jason. The balance is bigger than that though, it’s more complex. We’ll see in a few weeks how it looks.

This is true. Balance is dependent upon many variables.

2 hours ago, thrawn3054 said:

1v1 Jason is op. Against a coordinated group he will struggle. I'm not in the camp that thinks Jason is way under powered, but he does need a bit of love. Not big drastic changes. Just a few small improvements would make all the difference. 

I agree that 1V1 is overpowered for Jason, however, I think he is balanced when facing off against a full lobby of counselors.

2 hours ago, Jasix said:

I have never been in a QP where Jason was killed. I have been in teams with friends where we kill him, but not every attempt at a kill results in one. Strategy on both parts plays an integral role in success as does communication and teamwork. There is no way to say that Jason is OP or not since there are way too many variables affecting how the match will go. I have seen Jason's surrounded by counselors...take them out one by one. I have seen Jason's surrounded by counselors...die. 

 

The balance between counselors and Jason is different for each match. But in the majority of them, even noob players can get a 3/8.

2 hours ago, Slasher_Clone said:

There’s that complexity. Player skill and circumstance play a big role.

This is also true.

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The balance in this game is situational. It doesn't become an even match for the average Jason player until 4 of the 7 counselors are gone.

Instead of having counselors have the same abilities all through the match and Jason get stronger it should be reversed.

Jason should start the match extremely powerful while there are 7 counselors. He should have very high stealth and be able to move around the map taking counselors out one by one.

As he gets down to the final counselor he should be worked up into a frenzy like in the movies. It should scale giving him less stealth and strength as counselors are killed.

At the same time counselors abilities should be increased as the match progresses. By the end of the match it should nearly be an even fight, like in the movies. 

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11 minutes ago, AdmiralJT said:

The balance in this game is situational. It doesn't become an even match for the average Jason player until 4 of the 7 counselors are gone.

Instead of having counselors have the same abilities all through the match and Jason get stronger it should be reversed.

Jason should start the match extremely powerful while there are 7 counselors. He should have very high stealth and be able to move around the map taking counselors out one by one.

As he gets down to the final counselor he should be worked up into a frenzy like in the movies. It should scale giving him less stealth and strength as counselors are killed.

At the same time counselors abilities should be increased as the match progresses. By the end of the match it should nearly be an even fight, like in the movies. 

Interesting idea, go start a thread and develop it more, I’ll come post.

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3 minutes ago, Slasher_Clone said:

Interesting idea, go start a thread and develop it more, I’ll come post.

I already did a while ago. Not really interested in discussing it more though, no point really. This game is what it is and it'll be a year or two at least before we get another F13 game. Who knows what the premise of that game will even be.

http://forum.f13game.com/topic/20206-a-suggestion-for-the-next-f13-game/

 

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Just now, AdmiralJT said:

I already did a while ago. Not really interested in discussing it more though, no point really. This game is what it is and it'll be a year or two at least before we get another F13 game. Who knows what the premise of that game will even be.

Yeah, I understand ?‍♂ 

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26 minutes ago, AdmiralJT said:

The balance in this game is situational. It doesn't become an even match for the average Jason player until 4 of the 7 counselors are gone.

Instead of having counselors have the same abilities all through the match and Jason get stronger it should be reversed.

Jason should start the match extremely powerful while there are 7 counselors. He should have very high stealth and be able to move around the map taking counselors out one by one.

As he gets down to the final counselor he should be worked up into a frenzy like in the movies. It should scale giving him less stealth and strength as counselors are killed.

At the same time counselors abilities should be increased as the match progresses. By the end of the match it should nearly be an even fight, like in the movies. 

You know, this makes sense.

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2 minutes ago, Redcat345 said:

You know, this makes sense.

Yeah it was a good idea the first time too. I remember it now that I’ve been through the link.

16 minutes ago, AdmiralJT said:

I already did a while ago. Not really interested in discussing it more though, no point really. This game is what it is and it'll be a year or two at least before we get another F13 game. Who knows what the premise of that game will even be.

http://forum.f13game.com/topic/20206-a-suggestion-for-the-next-f13-game/

 

Thanks for the link, might still have something to add, we’ll see.

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5 minutes ago, Redcat345 said:

You know, this makes sense.

That's high praise coming from you.

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Balance Was fine but now you can’t pick up a Counsellor and shield yourself from a hit with them while a group is having a go,  you are stuffed. I had 5 on me last night and was killed in the end. I picked one up, another hit me, picked another up and another hit me. It just went on and on and got pretty tiresome in the end

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1 hour ago, AdmiralJT said:

I already did a while ago. Not really interested in discussing it more though, no point really. This game is what it is and it'll be a year or two at least before we get another F13 game. Who knows what the premise of that game will even be.

http://forum.f13game.com/topic/20206-a-suggestion-for-the-next-f13-game/

 

I don't remember reading that, but apparently I liked it back when you posted it lol

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4 minutes ago, TinTin_57 said:

Balance Was fine but now you can’t pick up a Counsellor and shield yourself from a hit with them while a group is having a go,  you are stuffed. I had 5 on me last night and was killed in the end. I picked one up, another hit me, picked another up and another hit me. It just went on and on and got pretty tiresome in the end

Slash, walk forward when you grab a Counselor till the chaser wiffs.

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As soon as Jason Morphs , all objectives are free and when everyone has a mic , Everyone knows exactly when.Only Part II has a Chance but then come the Vanessas and when they know how to Juke , you´re screwed.

And how About everybody ganging up on Jason? huh? You block? They Block. Two hits and he is demasked. Bam.

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6 minutes ago, The Wolf with that Toast said:

As soon as Jason Morphs , all objectives are free and when everyone has a mic , Everyone knows exactly when.Only Part II has a Chance but then come the Vanessas and when they know how to Juke , you´re screwed.

And how About everybody ganging up on Jason? huh? You block? They Block. Two hits and he is demasked. Bam.

Are you asking me? I mean the guide mostly covers it but it’s just doing things that are timed to your advantage. 

Hit’s don’t really matter when you’re Jason, you have time to plan while the big lug is laying down. 

(I play on console blocking is less effective then moving)

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12 minutes ago, TinTin_57 said:

Balance Was fine but now you can’t pick up a Counsellor and shield yourself from a hit with them while a group is having a go,  you are stuffed. I had 5 on me last night and was killed in the end. I picked one up, another hit me, picked another up and another hit me. It just went on and on and got pretty tiresome in the end

This happens to me all the time as well. My solution is to just start slashing them and hearing them cry on the mics about how much of a pussy I am. It makes me laugh every time.

7 minutes ago, The Wolf with that Toast said:

As soon as Jason Morphs , all objectives are free and when everyone has a mic , Everyone knows exactly when.Only Part II has a Chance but then come the Vanessas and when they know how to Juke , you´re screwed.

And how About everybody ganging up on Jason? huh? You block? They Block. Two hits and he is demasked. Bam.

True, but the only thing that would cause Jason to morph is an objective being fixed, which means that objective is not free. I’m confused as to what you’re trying to say.

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12 minutes ago, Truth said:

I don't remember reading that, but apparently I liked it back when you posted it lol

It got buried in all the anger that was going around at the time.

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9 minutes ago, Slasher_Clone said:

Are you asking me? I mean the guide mostly covers it but it’s just doing things that are timed to your advantage. 

Hit’s don’t really matter when you’re Jason, you have time to plan while the big lug is laying down. 

(I play on console blocking is less effective then moving)

I wasn´t Talking to you but I if they want to kill you…….Every hit Counts , and they Need 2 until you have no mask.

6 minutes ago, Hugh D Paul said:

This happens to me all the time as well. My solution is to just start slashing them and hearing them cry on the mics about how much of a pussy I am. It makes me laugh every time.

True, but the only thing that would cause Jason to morph is an objective being fixed, which means that objective is not free. I’m confused as to what you’re trying to say.

And everyother objective besides that one? And what About the part of killing Jason? Do I Sound pissed? I hope not.

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Just now, The Wolf with that Toast said:

I wasn´t Talking to you but I if they want to kill you…….Every hit Counts , and they Need 2 until you have no mask.

And everyother objective besides that one? And what About the part of killing Jason?

That’s true. Timing your repairs is very important as a counselor. I wouldn’t consider it overpowered however, just a well-timed strategy. As for the killing Jason, I have never really mastered the mask removal as I normally carry the bat to stun him. If what you say is true then yes that’s an issue.

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2 minutes ago, Hugh D Paul said:

That’s true. Timing your repairs is very important as a counselor. I wouldn’t consider it overpowered however, just a well-timed strategy. As for the killing Jason, I have never really mastered the mask removal as I normally carry the bat to stun him. If what you say is true then yes that’s an issue. 

I should also add , if we talk About lone wolfing it , with the Right techniques , and also even a legendary medic , I can repair with Vanessa any objective without a mistake. This is dangerous. I only do it now for the Xp , until I Change to random again.

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I think that the game favours councillors by far. On average we kill 4-6Jason’s a night and I play with a lobby of 4-8 people on the norm. If you play the game by just running around by yourself then yes he can be hard to escape. If you play as a team then Jason is screwed and will most likely only get 2-3 kills if he doesn’t get killed first. This is a team game and that’s what you need to be. I think that it should be harder to knock off the mask so he can actually fight off 2 or more councillors without grabbing one then getting stunned. Once the mask has been removed I think Jason’s swing and grab speed should be increased to make the kill more difficult. 

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