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Why does the Miller lawsuit affect the game now?

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2 hours ago, Nickypoolicious said:

The doomsayers are definitely not helping anything. Funnily enough, they seem to be mostly assholes who feel like the game should just go ahead and keel over and die. Which, if that's how they genuinely feel, then why are they still commenting on the forums for said game? That's the million dollar question.

Or is it the 39.99 dollar question?

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3 hours ago, Dragonfire82877 said:

My only question is, Why did Miller wait 37 years to file a lawsuit?

This is actually a really interesting bit of copyright law. There is a stipulation in the 1976 law that states that authors may terminate their existing contracts after a lengthy period of time (35-40 years) if they were not a work for hire. And apparently, Cunningham and Horror, Inc cannot find the original contract which refutes Miller's claim.

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17 minutes ago, Thatguyinktown said:

And apparently, Cunningham and Horror, Inc cannot find the original contract which refutes Miller's claim.

The funny part will be where Miller has a copy of that paperwork and either refuses to provide it , or outright destroyed it.

I can't tell you how often I run into issues at work where only one party has a copy of a document, and we live in the digital age, for crying out loud!  At least Miller and Horror Inc have an excuse:  back when that deal was executed, they didn't even have access to facsimile copies.  If anything, it was just a piece of paper.

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2 minutes ago, Bropollocreed79 said:

The funny part will be where Miller has a copy of that paperwork and either refuses to provide it , or outright destroyed it.

I can't tell you how often I run into issues at work where only one party has a copy of a document, and we live in the digital age, for crying out loud!  At least Miller and Horror Inc have an excuse:  back when that deal was executed, they didn't even have access to facsimile copies.  If anything, it was just a piece of paper.

The lawyers representing Miller will have to share a copy of the contract (if they have it) in discovery.

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7 minutes ago, NytmereZ said:

The lawyers representing Miller will have to share a copy of the contract (if they have it) in discovery.

They can't provide it if he destroyed it prior to the suit commencing.  I'm not saying that happened or even making the allegation, I just think it would be funny if it happened that way.  

But I know that I certainly don't retain old employment agreements unless I remember to save them with my taxes (I like to review them for performance incentives and the like at the end of the year, just to make sure what I was promised is what I was paid).

Edit: in reviewing the free dockets online, this is probably what prompted the decision to wind up production (emphasis mine):

ExParte Motion by Victor Miller Ex Parte Application for Leave To Submit Important Newly Discovered Evidence in Support of (1) Miller's Motion for Summary Judgment (Dkts. 45, 46) and (2) Miller's Opposition to Plaintiff's Motion for Summary Judgment (Dkt. 51) .(Toberoff, Marc) Modified on 5/3/2018(Oliver, T.).

 

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On 6/12/2018 at 4:57 PM, Bropollocreed79 said:

They can't provide it if he destroyed it prior to the suit commencing.  I'm not saying that happened or even making the allegation, I just think it would be funny if it happened that way.  

But I know that I certainly don't retain old employment agreements unless I remember to save them with my taxes (I like to review them for performance incentives and the like at the end of the year, just to make sure what I was promised is what I was paid).

Edit: in reviewing the free dockets online, this is probably what prompted the decision to wind up production (emphasis mine):

ExParte Motion by Victor Miller Ex Parte Application for Leave To Submit Important Newly Discovered Evidence in Support of (1) Miller's Motion for Summary Judgment (Dkts. 45, 46) and (2) Miller's Opposition to Plaintiff's Motion for Summary Judgment (Dkt. 51) .(Toberoff, Marc) Modified on 5/3/2018(Oliver, T.).

 

 

Probably referring to this: http://modernhorrors.com/the-future-of-friday-the-13th-tom-savini-reanimates-victor-millers-undead-claims/

 

At the end of the day, Miller is being a chump. It's 100% a work-for-hire case, but he's trying to squeeze by on a technicality (that the contract wasn't written prior). But at the end of the day, Miller would not have written this script if Cunningham hadn't hired him to do so. It's not like Miller wrote this on spec, by himself, and brought it to Cunningham.

And this sort of thing happens ALL the time in Hollywood. All kinds of projects are started on before a contract is hammered out. It's on Miller for not negotiating better terms for the contract. He was perfectly fine with receiving his paltry sum, and had remorse later after the franchise made bank. So now he's trying to exploit a loophole. Hopefully the judge has the sense to realize this could lead to a very ugly precedent in the industry if he or she sides with Miller.  

I usually always side with the writers -- but not this time. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Smitty_Voorhees said:

 

Probably referring to this: http://modernhorrors.com/the-future-of-friday-the-13th-tom-savini-reanimates-victor-millers-undead-claims/

 

At the end of the day, Miller is being a chump. It's 100% a work-for-hire case, but he's trying to squeeze by on a technicality (that the contract wasn't written prior). But at the end of the day, Miller would not have written this script if Cunningham hadn't hired him to do so. It's not like Miller wrote this on spec, by himself, and brought it to Cunningham.

And this sort of thing happens ALL the time in Hollywood. All kinds of projects are started on before a contract is hammered out. It's on Miller for not negotiating better terms for the contract. He was perfectly fine with receiving his paltry sum, and had remorse later after the franchise made bank. So now he's trying to exploit a loophole. Hopefully the judge has the sense to realize this could lead to a very ugly precedent in the industry if he or she sides with Miller.  

I usually always side with the writers -- but not this time. Miller is a fucking twat.

 

 

Nice catch.  I had to re-read the article bout four times to understand the implication (because it's so poorly written), but to condense it for everyone here (and feel free to correct me if I"m wrong, @Smitty_Voorhees) : the agreement between Miller and Cunningham is dated June 4th, 1979.

The memo and first draft sent to Savini on May 23, 1979 predates the execution of the employment agreement by about two weeks.  Miller's contention that he completed the first draft "on spec" would entitle him to execute the copyright maneuver that he has, barring any sort of exculpatory language or clauses in the employment agreement, or if the agreement itself has an effective date that predates the date of execution (which happens more often than not, especially in contracts).  Anything is possible, but if they're halting production, it doesn't look good for Cunningham and Horror, Inc.

TL;DR: Miller's employment agreement is dated June 4, 1979.  However, the first draft was completed by Miller prior to May 23, 1979, which predates the employment agreement.  This bolster's Miller's case (in theory, but we have no way of knowing for sure absent reading the agreement itself).  

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2 minutes ago, Bropollocreed79 said:

Nice catch.  I had to re-read the article bout four times to understand the implication (because it's so poorly written), but to condense it for everyone here (and feel free to correct me if I"m wrong, @Smitty_Voorhees) : the agreement between Miller and Cunningham is dated June 4th, 1979.

The memo and first draft sent to Savini on May 23, 1979 predates the execution of the employment agreement by about two weeks.  Miller's contention that he completed the first draft "on spec" would entitle him to execute the copyright maneuver that he has, barring any sort of exculpatory language or clauses in the employment agreement, or if the agreement itself has an effective date that predates the date of execution (which happens more often than not, especially in contracts).  Anything is possible, but if they're halting production, it doesn't look good for Cunningham and Horror, Inc.

TL;DR: Miller's employment agreement is dated June 4, 1979.  However, the first draft was completed by Miller prior to May 23, 1979, which predates the employment agreement.  This bolster's Miller's case (in theory, but we have no way of knowing for sure absent reading the agreement itself).  

The IPwire article linked in it explains it better, and I've updated the Miller v Cunningham thread accordingly.

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19 hours ago, NytmereZ said:

Nothing has changed, this decision came from within Gunn, or their lawyers, don’t believe anything else,  the game is broke, in it’s worse state ever, it would be a good excuse to blame it on something else...

I thought this at first but from what I've heard on Twitter earlier today that the Friday the 13th puzzle game was also hit with the same thing..

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Guys! Chad will handle Victor! He'll send him to the shadow realms! 

untitled_drawing_by_matthewphantom20-dbk

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10 minutes ago, Frighteningicon said:

I thought this at first but from what I've heard on Twitter earlier today that the Friday the 13th puzzle game was also hit with the same thing..

Do you remember where you saw this?  I've emailed Blue Wizard about the issue and I haven't heard back yet.  I also checked out their twitter page as well as the FT13th: KIller Puzzle page but can't find any info on this.

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1 minute ago, zmccain said:

Do you remember where you saw this?  I've emailed Blue Wizard about the issue and I haven't heard back yet.  I also checked out their twitter page as well as the FT13th: KIller Puzzle page but can't find any info on this.

I was gonna say I see no information from them anywhere that states that they won't be releasing any further content. 

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I've also emailed NECA and am awaiting a response.  They have a Part V "dream sequence" Jason figure scheduled to be released in September and so far there is no news that it, or any other FT13th related figures, are on hold.  They might be put on hold, I don't know.  I just haven't seen anything official yet.

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2 hours ago, zmccain said:

Do you remember where you saw this?  I've emailed Blue Wizard about the issue and I haven't heard back yet.  I also checked out their twitter page as well as the FT13th: KIller Puzzle page but can't find any info on this.

All I've seen the Killer Puzzle guys say is that they are "affected."

 

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12 minutes ago, Big Daddy J said:

All I've seen the Killer Puzzle guys say is that they are "affected."

 

Thanks!

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Until a ruling is made they don't have to do anything. They haven't received a C&D, or if they have they should share it to help with the allegations Gun made this up as a scapegoat.

Just like the Savini Jason skins from earlier this year, something smells fishy.  Old "Honest Dick" Tate would be proud of his boys.

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The real question is, why was Gun so unprepared for this? The lawsuit is going on since 2016, don´t even bother trying to tell me Gun didn´t know. Why push in a big update like the engine, instead of finishing content like Jason X who is nearly finished and barely missed the deadline, when you knew a lawsuit is going on and that it can easily effect your game?

It´s a no brainer that a lawsuit about the franchise your game works with can effect that game anytime.

 

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1.) Gun knew since at least January. This was already confirmed by the director of Never Hike Alone, who met with them around that time. My guess is that they thought they could only finish either Single Player Challenges or the Grendel Map and went with Single Player instead, which required an engine upgrade. Why they chose NOT to tell us any of this was going on is anyone's guess, but it's not a good way to do business. 

2.) Anyone blaming Victor Miller for this needs to read up on what's actually going on. He had to wait 35 years to even claim the rights to his intellectual property, due to some bullshit statue of limitations, and Sean Cunningham chose to countersue him instead of working out a deal. 

This is Sean's fault. Period. 

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So who is lying? Cunningham or Miller? They both damn well know the truth, regarding whether or not Miller was only "work for hire". There is no grey area. Only the truth.

 

Someone is lying, and that is the person responsible for what happened with this game.

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18 minutes ago, ShaunAburame said:

So who is lying? Cunningham or Miller? They both damn well know the truth, regarding whether or not Miller was only "work for hire". There is no grey area. Only the truth.

 

Someone is lying, and that is the person responsible for what happened with this game.

Either way, the guy deserves at least a portion the rights to characters that he created. Horror Inc. took his ideas, paid him less than $10,000 for them, and have continued to make millions of dollars with his characters over the last 35 years, including this video game. 

And again, Cunningham could have simply chosen to cut a deal with Miller, but instead he's countersuing and now Horror Inc. conveniently "can't find"  their copy of Miller's contract.

I'm Team Miller on this one. Read what the people who have worked with Sean Cunningham over the years have to say about what kind of person he is. Particularly the guy who directed Jason Goes to Hell.

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9 hours ago, Brevator said:

1.) Gun knew since at least January. This was already confirmed by the director of Never Hike Alone, who met with them around that time. My guess is that they thought they could only finish either Single Player Challenges or the Grendel Map and went with Single Player instead, which required an engine upgrade. Why they chose NOT to tell us any of this was going on is anyone's guess, but it's not a good way to do business. 

2.) Anyone blaming Victor Miller for this needs to read up on what's actually going on. He had to wait 35 years to even claim the rights to his intellectual property, due to some bullshit statue of limitations, and Sean Cunningham chose to countersue him instead of working out a deal. 

This is Sean's fault. Period. 

They knew about the deadline since January. Not about the lawsuit itself wich is going on since 2016. If they didn´t know about the whole lawsuit before they got the deadline this year, they are simply stupid.

It doesn´t matter if it is Millers or Cunnighams fault that there is a lawsuit. Only thing we should be concerned is how Gun handled the game with the information they should have since before launch. It´s really a no brainer, that an ongoing lawsuit can effect your game easily.

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9 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

They knew about the deadline since January. Not about the lawsuit itself wich is going on since 2016. If they didn´t know about the whole lawsuit before they got the deadline this year, they are simply stupid.

It doesn´t matter if it is Millers or Cunnighams fault that there is a lawsuit. Only thing we should be concerned is how Gun handled the game with the information they should have since before launch. It´s really a no brainer, that an ongoing lawsuit can effect your game easily.

Except for the fact they were told the lawsuit did not affect the game until recently. Hell even the article from last year states this... Why would they be concerned if they were already told not to be....

So should the killer puzzle people not have made their game as well? I am sure they were told the same thing originally - and now that has all changed. 

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