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NScarlato

Vanessa and the need to (indirectly) nerf (only) her

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27 minutes ago, DiegoElFuego said:

Why should they nerf a character so you can see more of your favorite? Reasoning there is...??? I mean, I wish Jenny was useful, if so I'd be using swimsuit Jenny all day, but too bad. They made Vanessa best, stick with who you like, or go with the best. I chose the latter.will run right into death, and try to fight head on. 

You do realize that I'm a Jenny main and I player her because she is good at what she does.  I don't care for Tiffany, which usually leads to @TiffanyIsBae and I belittling each others choice of counselors.  I was also a Vanessa Main during my first 3 months of the game.  Unlike counselor loyalist like AJ mains or Tiffany mains, player that choose Vanessa don't choose her because of they like her character or her trope.  It's simple, she is the best.  By just changing Vanessa's repair to 1, she still keeps her core responsibilty as a Carrier and bully/kiter, but making her now actually reliant on others.  The only thing Tiffany has over Vanessa is stealth, a stat that is always under suspicion of it's usefulness, and buff her repair does give player now a incentive to chose her over Vanessa.  I'm not saying Nerf Vanessa to the ground or anything like that, but I'd like to bring more balance overall between counselor rather than just one obviously best choice.

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12 minutes ago, GeneiJin said:

You do realize that I'm a Jenny main and I player her because she is good at what she does.  I don't care for Tiffany, which usually leads to @TiffanyIsBae and I belittling each others choice of counselors.  I was also a Vanessa Main during my first 3 months of the game.  Unlike counselor loyalist like AJ mains or Tiffany mains, player that choose Vanessa don't choose her because of they like her character or her trope.  It's simple, she is the best.  By just changing Vanessa's repair to 1, she still keeps her core responsibilty as a Carrier and bully/kiter, but making her now actually reliant on others.  The only thing Tiffany has over Vanessa is stealth, a stat that is always under suspicion of it's usefulness, and buff her repair does give player now a incentive to chose her over Vanessa.  I'm not saying Nerf Vanessa to the ground or anything like that, but I'd like to bring more balance overall between counselor rather than just one obviously best choice.

I like Jenny though ;(

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The reason you need to nerf Vanessa, isn't because of Vanessa. It's in the hands of an EXPERT Vanessa player, that she's overpowered. When you master hitting Jason and getting your stamina back. She is impossible to kill. SHE CAN ONLY BE KILLED BY AMBUSHING HER. Chad and Victoria are also is in this category. The Devs knew this. And they put the fear mechanic in to counter-act being able to run from Jason forever. But. Expert players have learned how to see through the fog, and not lose track of were Jason is. Players with high speed are also harder to shift-grab. Only shift-grabbing is not how you kill a high speed counselor. Counselors with 2 repair also need to be nerfed.

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@GeneiJin Unfortunately in quick play if you're forced to rely on others you're probably fucked. Another reason I oppose nerfing Vanessa or any other counselor. I'm not a Vanessa main. I actually don't have a main. But to me Vanessa isn't a problem. Most of the time the person using them is an idiot and an easy kill. True you'll run in to ones that are a nightmare to deal with. But from what I've read in previous threads you're a nightmare to deal with as Jenny.

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9 hours ago, TiffanyIsBae said:

Vanessa just does everything and there’s no stopping her. A good Vanessa can repair, defend, run, fight. Compare her to Buggzy and Tiffany, and you’ll realize how OP she really is. Tiffany can’t repair or defend. Buggzy can’t defend as well or repair. 

@Riot_Dame Thoughts on bolded?

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Get better at stalking... or shift-grabbing. Don't go after Vanessa first, or second or third lol. Her main purpose is as a DISTRACTION. Just practice, don't try to change the game due to your deficiencies. I'm not trying to be mean, just helpful. 

In essence, that would be the same as nerfing Debra in repair or AJ in stealth. All Jason players have their kryptonite. Adapt.

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7 minutes ago, thrawn3054 said:

@GeneiJin Unfortunately in quick play if you're forced to rely on others you're probably fucked. Another reason I oppose nerfing Vanessa or any other counselor. I'm not a Vanessa main. I actually don't have a main. But to me Vanessa isn't a problem. Most of the time the person using them is an idiot and an easy kill. True you'll run in to ones that are a nightmare to deal with. But from what I've read in previous threads you're a nightmare to deal with as Jenny.

It's true you can be "Fucked" in quick play, but it's a mixed bag anyhow.  But how about those that pick Bugzy, or AJ with all the key items far away at the world's end?  Even if Vanessa has a harder time repairing, she can still "run from her problems" better than any other, and she got that magic number "6" on luck to get 4 bat swings.  Vanessa has just about everything going for her, and her "bad" repair currently isn't bad enough to compensate for it.  On the other hand, Bugzy as both bad repair and luck.  Sure he's fast and has great stamina, but he'll go though weapons as if they are cardboard.  Vanessa will be fine with a 1 repair.

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I'm not saying she wouldn't still be okay. I guess in the end I don't like being reliant on others to escape. 

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1 hour ago, thrawn3054 said:

I'm not saying she wouldn't still be okay. I guess in the end I don't like being reliant on others to escape. 

You don't have to..... you can choose a counselor with better repair ;).  How Vanessa is now leaves little incentive choose another counselor

 

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1 hour ago, Risinggrave said:

@Riot_Dame Thoughts on bolded?

if you get used to her she’s beast. i usually repair with at most one fuck up. even repaired the phone against @lHeartBreakerl that once. still my proudest moment.  

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16 hours ago, Nougat said:

Vanessa, like any counselor is weak to the one thing 99% of Jason players are absolutely shit at doing successfully, shift grab. Window looping is dealt with if you aren't too dense and can guess whether or not the counselor will remain inside or crawl through and go outside.

I've gotten the hang of the shift grab after the recent update. After grabbing some random Vanessas, about 10% of them ragdoll (rage quit) during my kill animation, sure hope they don't wind up in the salt mines for thinking that just being Vanessa meant an automatic win. I main Eric Lachappa, Deborah Kim, or Jenny Myers most days when I queue into quick play matches. You'd be surprised how often I get away with those three. But, like Overwatch, if I see there are already a couple of a repair strong counselors, I'll switch it up with being someone who can play more defense like Bugsy or Adam.

Vanessa is a pain, but she's predictable. I see the same crap being pulled with her from lobby to lobby. If you're Jason, you just need to get ahead of the curve and kill her.

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I think the bigger problem is not necessarily Vanessa being overpowered because of her stats, but because of how the gameplay mechanics keeps changing from patch after patch that makes Jason less and less efficient in his job, and thus indirectly giving Counselors more advantages.

Remember when Jason didn't need an action prompt to break windows? He could simply melee a window and damage a Counselors crawling or jumping through them. Now, you need to waste a knife to break the window, because the prompt disappears if a Counselor uses said window.

Remember when Jason couldn't be stunned right after a pocket knife or a trap? It was because he had a few seconds of invulnerability to further stuns due to how stun duration were longer than intended, meaning that Counselors could not deliver a free stun due to a few seconds of invincibility.

The combat system for Jason is also getting more and more unreliable as well. There were times when I was stunned even though I had block activated as Jason, and with how entering and leaving Combat stance seems to have a delayed response, it meant that Jason had little reason to use Combat stance.

At this point, I'd look into readjusting these smaller gameplay mechanics before making bigger changes first.

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18 hours ago, AngronKharn said:

The solution is so simple.Just remove the possibilty to have the same character twice or more in one lobby.

Yeah I know now the "you cant tke the favorite counselor of some player away from him and force him to play a different counselor." comments will show up soon.

But the thing is that decs can interfere and do that and they should, because the players cant handle their freedom of choice.

If I look at a lobby and out of eight counselors four are Vanessas I know that it will lead to a round around Jason and troll him scenario.

Its just gamebreaking.

12

I suggested this in beta and it was a no go. I did so for the cinematic feel. They expended so much effort to recreate the movies only to have 7 Chad or Vanessa. But now we also see lobbies dominated by a speedy character with insignificant downsides.

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If youre a dev and youre reading this BS....PLEASE IGNORE THE HELL OUT OF THE ORIGINAL POST

 

Casuals play this game in quick play and casual jasons still get 6/8 councilors...The people who are complaining.Want 1 more jason buff so they can get 8/8 nearly 100% of the time in quick play AND they want to be dominant in public lobbies with their friends. Notice that most of these " SUGGESTIONS"  come from the fact that they had one more character to kill and they just could not do it.BUT IF YOU GUYS would give Jason one more buff or nerf that will be all they need to get 8/8.

I wish i could show you how many times i directly have hit jason and my bat vanishes through him and i get insta killed...I dont talk about it much because...pfff it is what it is.It doesnt happen that much..I take a risk by swingin at a freaken undead beast...sometimes the hit lands...sometimes it doesnt.

 

PLEASE ADD MORE CONTENT ! WE WILL GLADLY PAY FOR IT.THIS GAME IS BALANCED FINE .

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33 minutes ago, TiffanyCakes said:

If youre a dev and youre reading this BS....PLEASE IGNORE THE HELL OUT OF MY POSTS

Here did it for you.

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58 minutes ago, TiffanyCakes said:

If youre a dev and youre reading this BS....PLEASE IGNORE THE HELL OUT OF THE ORIGINAL POST

 

Casuals play this game in quick play and casual jasons still get 6/8 councilors...The people who are complaining.Want 1 more jason buff so they can get 8/8 nearly 100% of the time in quick play AND they want to be dominant in public lobbies with their friends. Notice that most of these " SUGGESTIONS"  come from the fact that they had one more character to kill and they just could not do it.BUT IF YOU GUYS would give Jason one more buff or nerf that will be all they need to get 8/8.

I wish i could show you how many times i directly have hit jason and my bat vanishes through him and i get insta killed...I dont talk about it much because...pfff it is what it is.It doesnt happen that much..I take a risk by swingin at a freaken undead beast...sometimes the hit lands...sometimes it doesnt.

 

PLEASE ADD MORE CONTENT ! WE WILL GLADLY PAY FOR IT.THIS GAME IS BALANCED FINE .

This isn’t about asking Jason to get 8/8s at all. 

If counselors work together and escape fine. 

This is about watching Vanessa be able to run out the clock for 10 minutes, by herself, while we are held hostage in the lobby.  It sucks literally for everyone but Vanessa.  

But I suppose you disagree that Vanessa is overtuned.  In my opinion, killing a good Vanessa is more difficult than ANY other counselor. 

It’s not like we’ve never seen Vanessa’s refuse to go to the cops or escape in a car so they can “delight” us with her skills of running endlessly and rarely having weapons break. 

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This is getting a bit ridiculous here... What is all this "I want to put no effort into the game but still get 8/8" bs? If you're chasing a Vanessa for more than a minute, you're doing something very wrong.

You have to outsmart these players, not endlessly run after them. If you can't kill a Vanessa (or even any other counselor) immediately, leave them be for a while and come back with stalk and do a nice rewarding shift grab when they don't see you coming. Sure, it will take some time to perfect this but it sure as hell doesn't take as long as chasing them for 20 minutes.

And for the love of God: AT LEAST TRY TO DODGE ATTACKS... even if someone has the best epic swift attacker perk and combat stance turns to swing at you, you still have more than enough time to turn around yourself and run in the opposite direction or even block. They will miss their swing and if you're fast enough, you get a FREE KILL.

Nothing should be nerfed just because people are too incompetent to pull off one of the most basic movements in this game.

I could also call repair counselors too op just because they can repair the entire car while I'm stunned, it's the same freaking thing.

 

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4 minutes ago, noahvt said:

This is getting a bit ridiculous here... What is all this "I want to put no effort into the game but still get 8/8" bs? If you're chasing a Vanessa for more than a minute, you're doing something very wrong.

You have to outsmart these players, not endlessly run after them. If you can't kill a Vanessa (or even any other counselor) immediately, leave them be for a while and come back with stalk and do a nice rewarding shift grab when they don't see you coming. Sure, it will take some time to perfect this but it sure as hell doesn't take as long as chasing them for 20 minutes.

And for the love of God: AT LEAST TRY TO DODGE ATTACKS... even if someone has the best epic swift attacker perk and combat stance turns to swing at you, you still have more than enough time to turn around yourself and run in the opposite direction or even block. They will miss their swing and if you're fast enough, you get a FREE KILL.

Nothing should be nerfed just because people are too incompetent to pull off one of the most basic movements in this game.

I could also call repair counselors too op just because they can repair the entire car while I'm stunned, it's the same freaking thing.

 

Repair characters and the combination of stats and amount of trolling Vanessa can do by herself aren’t the same thing at all. 

A good Vanessa is usually the “final girl” because a good Jason won’t allow her to distract them from all the easy to kill counselors that might actually do an objective. It’s at that point, when everyone else has escaped or died, that counselors and Jason alike is subjected to Vanessa.  

A good Vanessa isn’t going to be standing still (or typically even jogging slowly) in the open for a “stealthy shift grab” at any point in the game.  As the final girl, a situation troll Vanessa purposely puts herself in more often than not, she isn’t going to be tricked into thinkning Jason isn’t after her.  She’s just given way too many tools to play this way. 

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3 hours ago, NScarlato said:

This isn’t about asking Jason to get 8/8s at all. 

If counselors work together and escape fine. 

This is about watching Vanessa be able to run out the clock for 10 minutes, by herself, while we are held hostage in the lobby.  It sucks literally for everyone but Vanessa.  

But I suppose you disagree that Vanessa is overtuned.  In my opinion, killing a good Vanessa is more difficult than ANY other counselor. 

It’s not like we’ve never seen Vanessa’s refuse to go to the cops or escape in a car so they can “delight” us with her skills of running endlessly and rarely having weapons break. 

You arent going to believe me...but im 100% not bsing you AND IM NOT SAYING YOU ARE A LIAR.In my experience..  i use Tiffany and Jenny and 7 times out of 10 im the last person to survive.I dont see these great Vanessa players(I play in Quick-play).Which brings me to my point.....You guys want her nerfed but shes only a pain in TOP TIER players hands...Unlike Jason who at a skill level of 30 can decimate an entire lobby of players more familiar with the game.

 

I personally dont like Vanessa...not a fan of the character model or build..way too loud.

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4 hours ago, noahvt said:

 

You have to outsmart these players, not endlessly run after them. If you can't kill a Vanessa (or even any other counselor) immediately, leave them be for a while and come back with stalk and do a nice rewarding shift grab when they don't see you coming. Sure, it will take some time to perfect this but it sure as hell doesn't take as long as chasing them for 20 minutes.

 

 

Nice idea. So you wont chase that one  Vanessa  if you realise it will be too timeconsuming. So who do we chase instead?one of the thrre other Vanessas, or one of the two Chads?

This is so pointless as long as any counselor can be used by multiple persons in the same match.

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30 minutes ago, TiffanyCakes said:

You arent going to believe me...but im 100% not bsing you AND IM NOT SAYING YOU ARE A LIAR.In my experience..  i use Tiffany and Jenny and 7 times out of 10 im the last person to survive.I dont see these great Vanessa players(I play in Quick-play).Which brings me to my point.....You guys want her nerfed but shes only a pain in TOP TIER players hands...Unlike Jason who at a skill level of 30 can decimate an entire lobby of players more familiar with the game.

 

I personally dont like Vanessa...not a fan of the character model or build..way too loud.

I believe you - Tiffany has what it takes to be a final girl too but I find it to be more "fair" to go against her when she's the final girl instead of Vanessa. 

I don't like Vanessa when I'm a Counselor or Jason.  

Trash Vanessa's don't matter but those who are very skilled and picking her because she is best at running down the clock, play the hoarding game, don't help anyone and won't even pick up and drop parts and leave the fuse hidden in a drawer because she can't take 2 seconds out of her knife-hoarding to pick it up and drop it really irritate me.  And too often I see 2 to 4 Vanessas in every game.

Last night on Jarvis as AJ, i spawned at the 3 cabins in the bottom of the map in between TWO Vanessas.  I got a map.  By the time I could trek anywhere else on the map everything was pillaged. All that was left was a walkie-talkie and more maps.  All the parts were ignored.  Maybe I'm just biased against Vanessa - I can't stand her.

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53 minutes ago, NScarlato said:

Trash Vanessa's don't matter but those who are very skilled and picking her because she is best at running down the clock, play the hoarding game, don't help anyone and won't even pick up and drop parts and leave the fuse hidden in a drawer because she can't take 2 seconds out of her knife-hoarding to pick it up and drop it really irritate me.  And too often I see 2 to 4 Vanessas in every game.

Last night on Jarvis as AJ, i spawned at the 3 cabins in the bottom of the map in between TWO Vanessas.  I got a map.  By the time I could trek anywhere else on the map everything was pillaged. All that was left was a walkie-talkie and more maps.  All the parts were ignored.  Maybe I'm just biased against Vanessa - I can't stand her.

To be fair to the counselor, they only reflect the playstyle and behaviour of the player behind him/her.   When I do play Vanessa, I play Hero.  I while I do speed loot, I'll make sure door are at least closed, and if I find another PK, I'll share it or trade for a stray to someone.  Then run to the objective, and wait for Jason or come to the rescue of someone.

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20 hours ago, thrawn3054 said:

@GeneiJin Unfortunately in quick play if you're forced to rely on others you're probably fucked. 

Exactly. I do QP. not waiting an hour for a private match to start. Fuck that.

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17 hours ago, Nickypoolicious said:

I've gotten the hang of the shift grab after the recent update. After grabbing some random Vanessas, about 10% of them ragdoll (rage quit) during my kill animation, sure hope they don't wind up in the salt mines for thinking that just being Vanessa meant an automatic win. I main Eric Lachappa, Deborah Kim, or Jenny Myers most days when I queue into quick play matches. You'd be surprised how often I get away with those three. But, like Overwatch, if I see there are already a couple of a repair strong counselors, I'll switch it up with being someone who can play more defense like Bugsy or Adam.

Vanessa is a pain, but she's predictable. I see the same crap being pulled with her from lobby to lobby. If you're Jason, you just need to get ahead of the curve and kill her.

I actually had a s#!t talking Chad rage quit, 2 Debra' s and and AJ after realizing their car was a lost cause after I stopped it, and a Mitch that managed to quit just before I initiated the kill(after chasing him for 4 mins😲)... not one Vanessa in a while. 

She's not OP if you are a proactive Jason.  Balance seems ok, let's focus on glitching and bugs before nerfing either side.

Btw on psn some hosts are able to dash out and make it look like YOU lost connection. That needs to be investigated. I DO NOT quit and I've had matches abruptly end as soon as the host dies, yet me and other living players get salt...

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3 hours ago, VoorheesGt101 said:

I actually had a s#!t talking Chad rage quit, 2 Debra' s and and AJ after realizing their car was a lost cause after I stopped it, and a Mitch that managed to quit just before I initiated the kill(after chasing him for 4 mins😲)... not one Vanessa in a while. 

She's not OP if you are a proactive Jason.  Balance seems ok, let's focus on glitching and bugs before nerfing either side.

Btw on psn some hosts are able to dash out and make it look like YOU lost connection. That needs to be investigated. I DO NOT quit and I've had matches abruptly end as soon as the host dies, yet me and other living players get salt...

You usually can tell if someone will troll you or rage quit after you get them and they know they're about to die. It's almost always the people talking trash, and not just trash talking but trying to be really vitriol with their comments. They'll talk a lot of shit right up until you get them for the last time in your grip, and then they ragdoll out during the kill because they can't possibly handle the fact that YOU defeated them.

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