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NScarlato

Vanessa and the need to (indirectly) nerf (only) her

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Vanessa obviously is the strongest counselor right now.
Everyone who wants tro tryhard and troll Jason, they get her. She OBVIOUSLY need a nerf.
What should be nerfed, i rly don't know. Stamina/Speed/Health.
 

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27 minutes ago, NScarlato said:

That said, if I see a lobby of only Vanessas and some Bugsys I usually leave since it's typically annoying to deal with on both ends.

Thats a jason killing lobby, and you're smart to leave.

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17 minutes ago, Shaggy said:

Wow. Another stupid idea in this forum during the week  🤣

tumblr_mmp6q4HlV11sqghjko1_500.gif

 

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I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone or anything here, but why don't we start small here.  Instead of changing a bunch of counselor stuff right away, why don't we just change a lot about Jason.  Mainly the slow animations and recovery frames.  Start small and work from there.  Change too much too fast and all hell breaks loose.  

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6 minutes ago, dandop1984 said:

 

 

I mean unstealthy like Vanessa

Ok but then suggestion makes even less sense.As I mentioned deteting her is not the problem. Catch up to her is the timeconsuming thing and if you look at lobbies nowadays there are usually three, four, or five Vanessas. If there is only one Vanessa Jason can say fine, run, I'll see you later and there he goes hunting somebody else.But with so many Vanessas it just makes no difference which one of them you chase for half the game.

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2 minutes ago, AngronKharn said:

Ok but then suggestion makes even less sense.As I mentioned deteting her is not the problem. Catch up to her is the timeconsuming thing and if you look at lobbies nowadays there are usually three, four, or five Vanessas. If there is only one Vanessa Jason can say fine, run, I'll see you later and there he goes hunting somebody else.But with so many Vanessas it just makes no difference which one of them you chase for half the game.

I think another issue is that until you get Shift, you really shouldn't even look at a Vanessa as it's too easy for her to get away.

I do think if you are Stalking, counselors shouldn't scream when your in radius.  I actually don't think they should scream unless they see you.

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13 minutes ago, dandop1984 said:

Now if sense was the last ability high stealth counsollors would have an early game advanage. AJ could actually hide behind a tree and Jason would walk right by, but by also buffing Stalk to produce Red sound pings when Jason is within 20 or so feet a counsellors they could give away their position, especially for a counsellor like Vanessa.

I like the sound of that

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17 minutes ago, dandop1984 said:

AJ could actually hide behind a tree and Jason would walk right by

And she can with the right perks. I'm not really opposed to the swap, but it's kind of too late for that.

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So let me get this straight, you are finding it difficult to kill Vanessa's, so to make you go 8/8 or 7/7 in matches as Jason, you want Vanessa to be nerfed so she's easier to kill?

Thats crazy talk.

1) She's a track star, her speed and stamina are what makes her character unique. Just like we have our characters blessed in other fields such as repair, composure, luck, and stealth. Should we nerf them because others might find them hard to deal with or kill also?

2) The perks are rewards for building up CP and are random so it's not like every Vanessa runs those perks. I have never rolled the medic perk. And I know I can't be the only one.

3) Games are supposed to be challenging. Why does everyone insist on having things handed to them? I have not once ever played a game that I found challenging or difficult in certain aspects and demanded a change to make it easier for me. You just have to adapt and practice.

4) It all comes down to the person behind the controller, not the person they main. I've seen Jenny's have Jason tunnel them for the entire round and survive. I've seen lobbies full of AJ's and Debs survive. I've seen lobbies full of Vanessa's, Chads and Bugzys get destroyed.

This is more of a personal issue, rather than a character issue. Some people are just better at the game and will be extremely hard to kill no matter who they play as, and that's a hard pill to swallow for a lot of people so they demand changes be made to make it easier for them to get the kill, rather than accept the fact that you can't win them all, and even the best Jason players will sometimes be bested by counselors. Vanessa is fine, there are certain ways to use each and everyone one of these counselors and many people who have put time into the game understand how to use them. That's why you see AJ mains and Lachappa mains.

I see far more people use Vanessa that don't know how to properly use her than I have people who use her to tank traps and distract Jason.

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20 minutes ago, dandop1984 said:

Yes, but that's why I want Sense and Stalk swapped. This would make Jason scarier, and make him less of a terminator. This would also not buff Jason any more than it would also nerf him, as sense is pretty damn overpowered. Now if sense was the last ability high stealth counsollors would have an early game advanage. AJ could actually hide behind a tree and Jason would walk right by, but by also buffing Stalk to produce Red sound pings when Jason is within 20 or so feet a counsellors they could give away their position, especially for a counsellor like Vanessa.

 

I mean unstealthy like Vanessa

That's a cool idea but nerfing Jason now is one of the least wanted things here , man.

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Vanessa just does everything and there’s no stopping her. A good Vanessa can repair, defend, run, fight. Compare her to Buggzy and Tiffany, and you’ll realize how OP she really is. Tiffany can’t repair or defend. Buggzy can’t defend as well or repair. 

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vanessa easy to beat turn power out to make stamina boost non factor plus when powers out she stumbles almost as much as chad

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14 minutes ago, NScarlato said:

I think another issue is that until you get Shift, you really shouldn't even look at a Vanessa as it's too easy for her to get away.

I do think if you are Stalking, counselors shouldn't scream when your in radius.  I actually don't think they should scream unless they see you.

The scream really hurts the game. Sometimes for Jason and sometimes for the counselors. Up there on the list of things I would change about this game if I could.

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22 minutes ago, AngronKharn said:

Ok but then suggestion makes even less sense.As I mentioned deteting her is not the problem. Catch up to her is the timeconsuming thing and if you look at lobbies nowadays there are usually three, four, or five Vanessas. If there is only one Vanessa Jason can say fine, run, I'll see you later and there he goes hunting somebody else.But with so many Vanessas it just makes no difference which one of them you chase for half the game.

By making Stalk the first ability and buffing the stat in general, that would make tracking Vanessa easier and other counsellors with low stealth, and because Jason is in Stalk there's more of a chance a vanessa player would run directly into Jason.

For me thats usually how I catch Vanessa even with the way things are now. I let Vanessa come to me, as opposed to me coming after Vanessa.

I really feel this is the way Jason should be played, instead of this constant slow chase. Watch the movies, Jason was stealth, and his victims would usually turn a corner or open a door to find an axe in their head. Then once the final girl or guy was left THAT'S when the chase begins, and Jason would have his Sense ability, and the game would play as normal.

14 minutes ago, Truth said:

And she can with the right perks. I'm not really opposed to the swap, but it's kind of too late for that.

Those perks would still have a place, just 5 minutes into a game, and with the way Sense currently works, its very easy for low Sense Jasons to spam the button, and eventually find those counsellors with sense avoidance perks. 

I know a lot of this is probably too late, but with a declining player base illfonic/gun may have to make some drastic chages to get back the players, and make this game Scary again.

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9 minutes ago, The Wolf with that Toast said:

That's a cool idea but nerfing Jason now is one of the least wanted things here , man.

No it wouldn't be a nerf, but it would change the way Jason would play, and people would have to adapt, and same goes for counsellors.

By swapping Stalk and Sense, Jason would have the advantage of killing counsellors without shift, and by buffing stalk to produce Red sound pings, jason would still be able to track counsellors, but maybe not as easily as Sense does. 

Imagine being a counsellor. Your Vanessa, You just spawned in and you go upstairs in Packinack lodge, you are searching drawers, and turn around and Jason is running directly at you. Because of your low stealth, Jason was able to determine a counsellor must be upstairs. You panic, and jump out the window, but you don't have health. so you limp to the nearest tree, and crouch and hide, Jason morphs outside, and is searching the area, but he can't find you, because you are couched. Then Jason leaves your view, and the music stops, is he actually gone? So you start to move, but being Vanessa gives away your sound pings, and Jason returns having never left the area and he kills you.

Little scenarios like that are what I imagine could happen with swapping sense and stalk.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, dandop1984 said:

No it wouldn't be a nerf, but it would change the way Jason would play, and people would have to adapt, and same goes for counsellors.

By swapping Stalk and Sense, Jason would have the advantage of killing counsellors without shift, and by buffing stalk to produce Red sound pings, jason would still be able to track counsellors, but maybe not as easily as Sense does. 

Imagine being a counsellor. Your Vanessa, You just spawned in and you go upstairs in Packinack lodge, you are searching drawers, and turn around and Jason is running directly at you. Because of your low stealth, Jason was able to determine a counsellor must be upstairs. You panic, and jump out the window, but you don't have health. so you limp to the nearest tree, and crouch and hide, Jason morphs outside, and is searching the area, but he can't find you, because you are couched. Then Jason leaves your view, and the music stops, is he actually gone? So you start to move, but being Vanessa gives away your sound pings, and Jason returns having never left the area and he kills you.

Little scenarios like that are what I imagine could happen with swapping sense and stalk.

 

 

Also many players don't truly make much use of sense early in the game because they need to spend time trapping.  Stalk may help set up an early kill that you can't get with Sense.

Unless the counselor screams because they notice you through the cabin walls...

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12 minutes ago, dandop1984 said:

By making Stalk the first ability and buffing the stat in general, that would make tracking Vanessa easier and other counsellors with low stealth, and because Jason is in Stalk there's more of a chance a vanessa player would run directly into Jason.

For me thats usually how I catch Vanessa even with the way things are now. I let Vanessa come to me, as opposed to me coming after Vanessa.

 

As I mentioned before, detecting Vanessas is not the problem, they usually want that you find them so they can play with you.

So you use stalk to get them? That means you have to activate stalk, then you have to detect them,then you have to get near them, then you have to position yourself in their way and hope that they keep on moving in your direction without noticing you,then you have to grab and land the grab, then you have to hope they have no pocketknifes, because if cant kill them right now they will play more careful for the rest of the game. A lot "thens", not to mention that you have to do it all while stalk is still active and sometimes you would have to do it against four or five Vanessas.There is also still the possibilty that they move as pack to beat you up, which makes stalk completly useless.

Ihighly doubt that this really works against good Vanessas.

 

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9 minutes ago, dandop1984 said:

No it wouldn't be a nerf, but it would change the way Jason would play, and people would have to adapt, and same goes for counsellors.

By swapping Stalk and Sense, Jason would have the advantage of killing counsellors without shift, and by buffing stalk to produce Red sound pings, jason would still be able to track counsellors, but maybe not as easily as Sense does. 

Imagine being a counsellor. Your Vanessa, You just spawned in and you go upstairs in Packinack lodge, you are searching drawers, and turn around and Jason is running directly at you. Because of your low stealth, Jason was able to determine a counsellor must be upstairs. You panic, and jump out the window, but you don't have health. so you limp to the nearest tree, and crouch and hide, Jason morphs outside, and is searching the area, but he can't find you, because you are couched. Then Jason leaves your view, and the music stops, is he actually gone? So you start to move, but being Vanessa gives away your sound pings, and Jason returns having never left the area and he kills you.

Little scenarios like that are what I imagine could happen with swapping sense and stalk.

 

 

Impossible, you don't go upstairs at Packanack pre-shift until you've grabbed the spray behind the bathroom door.

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2 minutes ago, AngronKharn said:

As I mentioned before, detecting Vanessas is not the problem, they usually want that you find them so they can play with you.

So you use stalk to get them? That means you have to activate stalk, then you have to detect them,then you have to get near them, then you have to position yourself in their way and hope that they keep on moving in your direction without noticing you,then you have to grab and land the grab, then you have to hope they have no pocketknifes, because if cant kill them right now they will play more careful for the rest of the game. A lot "thens", not to mention that you have to do it all while stalk is still active and sometimes you would have to do it against four or five Vanessas.There is also still the possibilty that they move as pack to beat you up, which makes stalk completly useless.

Ihighly doubt that this really works against good Vanessas.

 

Yes I know Vanessa is easy to detect, but sometimes its hard to judge if those sound pings are coming from 20 feet away or 100 feet away?  Simply changing the color of the ping with stalk activated would just be an indicator that a counseloor is within reach. And if sense and stalk ever got swapped this would be a way for Jason to easily track, but not as pin point accuarate as the way Sense works. This would also make crouching as a counsellor a viable tactic.

Your description is exactly how I play Jason, and yes it doesn't always work anymore than a shift grab does. And yes there's always room to adapt, so if its a Jason kill pack walking shoulder to shoulder armed with bats and machetes I may have to change tactics, and be more aggressive. However you will be amazed how often someone strays from the pack, and checks the room at the end of the cabin, where i'm waiting. 

And trust me I'm not waiting in a cabin for 15 minutes wondering why no one is coming at me?  All it takes knowing your opponent, and predicting their movements and guessing their strategy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Leave Vanessa as is please.  She is like the fast counselor Crissy in the original NES version of the game--fast as hell---and hard to catch.  I see no reason for a nerf because of this.  Jason could stand to have his grab tuned up a bit, they just can't seem to get that one right, it's either to narrow or to wide.  Right now he seems to be damn near blind in the current grab build.  Plus Jason getting stunned so much, in rage mode at the very least Jason's stun chance should be like 10 percent, otherwise he gets the hell beat out of him for the rest of the match and in rage mode the stun chance still being so high just makes no sense when the dude can crush doors with his body and take no stun but a stick can stun him in rage mode....really?

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1 hour ago, HuDawg said:

Nerf Med Sprays time to heal and remove duplicate item holding. Would probably make more sense then flat out nerfing Vanessa.

 

Swap Jasons stun time with how long it takes to heal.    Make Jason default stun time 1 second.   Make the med spray take at least 5 seconds to use.

Remove the ability to hold duplicate items.  Which will have an impact on how people are using med sprays/medic perk.

I agree, maybe not 5 seconds but I agree in the direction you’re going

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I don't think any of the counselors need a nerf or buff. They preform the roles they were meant to. A good player can make any counselor an obnoxious pain in the ass to deal with. Granted the high speed stamina combo makes it easier, but you simply have to out play them. I've run the clock out with Mitch and the like. In the end it comes down to your ability vs. the other persons. 

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Vanessa is only a nuisance if the Jason player allows it. She can be hurt, caught, and killed just as readily as the rest of'em. If you suspect a Vanessa is running around the map, looking for traps to tank; get proactive and wait for her. Snatch her up out of that trap and it's usually game over. Or slash her before she has time to use a spray. If she gets away she is most certainly going to be window hopping. Use knives. As Jason, you have a counter-punch for everything she does. Make her play your game and watch her die (and usually rage quit).

If there's one area where she needs a nerf, it's the same for all counselors who have the ability to casually jog and keep Jason at distance despite him walking or running as fast as he can. That's B.S. and needs to go.

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1 hour ago, NScarlato said:

Also many players don't truly make much use of sense early in the game because they need to spend time trapping.  Stalk may help set up an early kill that you can't get with Sense.

Unless the counselor screams because they notice you through the cabin walls...

Yeah exactly. Getting Stalk early would allow Jason to close the gap between himself and the unsuspecting counsellor. More opportunities for Jump Scares, and additionally help out the high Stealth counsellors by making them more viable early game.

 

If illfonic/Gun did this I guarantee it would change the way people play. They would have to buff the stalk stat from what it currently is, so it's not just a simple swap. Additionally adding some of the changes other people suggested about not being able to carry duplicate items, tweaking Jason's stun times, especially for -stun and + stun jason's , and bring back the cost of Stamina points per attack for Counsellors. This would help steer the game in the right direction, and make it more in line to the movies. And put a greater emphasis on run and hide and only fight as a last resort, as opposed to the constant fight, run, and fight some more that we currently have.

Maybe what myself and others are asking for is unrealistic at this stage, or maybe it's just a new mode, or maybe, its another developer taking hints from what f13 did right, and not doing what it did wrong, and by making a simply put. Better game.

What I do know is with the declining player base this game needs a bit of shaking up.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, AngronKharn said:

The solution is so simple.Just remove the possibilty to have the same character twice or more in one lobby.

Yeah I know now the "you cant tke the favorite counselor of some player away from him and force him to play a different counselor." comments will show up soon.

But the thing is that decs can interfere and do that and they should, because the players cant handle their freedom of choice.

If I look at a lobby and out of eight counselors four are Vanessas I know that it will lead to a round around Jason and troll him scenario.

Its just gamebreaking.

No. Absolutely not.

 

 

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