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The current state of Jason vs Counselors

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1 hour ago, HuDawg said:

Hitting Jason isn't that hard tho.  So i fail to see how its earning anything.  Considering 90% of every hit on Jason is a stun regardless of weapon choice or counselor choice..  And every stun has Jason standing there for 5-10 seconds.   (And healing takes only a second)    So when you add in a few more counselors to the mix.  This is when it becomes a issue.  It turns into a cycle of non stop stunning.   I just don't see this as a visually fun experience.. and its also frustrating to players playing as Jason.

It goes from.. JASON RUN!! ... To Jason..  whooop his ass! ( And this sort of ruins the buzz)

Theres plenty of people in this topic that are basically saying the same thing im saying.. Even saying its happening to them.

Its not like im just making this shit up.  

 

Yes, groups of counsellors can beat up Jason some. Of course they can, strength in numbers and all that. That's normal. 90% of hits do not stun Jason, and 90% of stuns do not take 5-10 seconds. Healing is 2 seconds, not one. If you need to exagerrate this much to prove your point then you are clearly bias.

Yes gangbangs CAN happen. However, a good Jason will kill most of those counsellors anyway. And, a good Jason CAN avoid a gangbang or even welcome it... More prey for the slaughter. The issue here is not that counsellors CAN do so, because Jason also CAN kill them all anyway. So, at the end of the day it depends on how good the Jason is and how good the counsellors are. That's the difference between single player and online, and that is how an online game should work. 

If the Jason isn't good enough to stop the counsellors, that is not the game's fault. People complaining about this are very simply complaining that the counsellors are trying and being smart. Jason has to counter with tactics of his own. Christ, Jason has to work for his kills when counsellors are smart. That's just life. You are literally complaining that counsellors are doing what they are supposed to do, so now Jason has to put in more effort. That is the whole point of an online game. Jason has all of the abilities he needs to kill counsellors, and counsellors have to stick together or escape to survive. Game on.

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8 minutes ago, CPLhicks31 said:

Yes, groups of counsellors can beat up Jason some. Of course they can, strength in numbers and all that. That's normal. 90% of hits do not stun Jason, and 90% of stuns do not take 5-10 seconds. Healing is 2 seconds, not one. If you need to exagerrate this much to prove your point then you are clearly bias.

Yes gangbangs CAN happen. However, a good Jason will kill most of those counsellors anyway. And, a good Jason CAN avoid a gangbang or even welcome it... More prey for the slaughter. The issue here is not that counsellors CAN do so, because Jason also CAN kill them all anyway. So, at the end of the day it depends on how good the Jason is and how good the counsellors are. That's the difference between single player and online, and that is how an online game should work. 

If the Jason isn't good enough to stop the counsellors, that is not the game's fault. People complaining about this are very simply complaining that the counsellors are trying and being smart. Jason has to counter with tactics of his own. Christ, Jason has to work for his kills when counsellors are smart. That's just life. You are literally complaining that counsellors are doing what they are supposed to do, so now Jason has to put in more effort. That is the whole point of an online game. Jason has all of the abilities he needs to kill counsellors, and counsellors have to stick together or escape to survive. Game on.

Overall I do agree, but I feel there's inconsistencies with Jason being stunned. Jason's with -Stun and +stun seem to be very marginal, and almost a throw away stat.  I've stunned J9 countless times with wrenches,and no stun perks on, and I can barely see or tell a difference between stunning J9 or J3. I do feel at least + and - stun Jasons should use some tweaking to add more noticeable value to their stat.

Now regarding if Jason doesn't know how to counter a gang attack. That does come with experience. And experience is really the key to playing both Counsellor and Jason. I reached my 1000 counsellor match back in September, and I have yet to even reach 500 matches as Jason. So just by the amount of time played I'm considered to be more experienced at Counsellor  than I'm at Jason.

Now given the sheer amount of time people play counsellors. why on earth would the game developers want to make it even more easy for them? A good example of this is go look at the description of the Strength stat, it still says "Reduces the Stamina Cost of Combat Actions" That is a total lie, it's no longer the case. They removed the stamina cost some time ago, and now any counsellor with 1 strength can beat on Jason with ZERO penalty to their Stamina.

Now when people say this game is difficult for the Jason player, and there should be some adjustments made, and Counsellor mains say otherwise, and say the balance is perfect. Please remember that stat description, as that's the perfect example how Gun/illfonic favour Counsellor Victories.

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1 hour ago, CPLhicks31 said:

Yes, groups of counsellors can beat up Jason some. Of course they can, strength in numbers and all that. That's normal. 90% of hits do not stun Jason, and 90% of stuns do not take 5-10 seconds. Healing is 2 seconds, not one. If you need to exagerrate this much to prove your point then you are clearly bias.

 

OOoh im not exaggerating.  I might not be saying the exact numbers but its extremely close,.  Infact its close to perfect..  And im 100% correct on describing i what im seeing in game.  (Thats not a debate)

So no, its not bias. Im just telling you how  it is from my own experience as PLAYING AS COUNSELOR!  

 

And to be honest i disagree with the rest of what you posted.  So i won't be responding to it. Nothing personal..    

But if you think I gives rats ass about about MAINS.  You haven't been paying attention

 

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17 hours ago, Slasher_Clone said:

@Ahab, thanks man. I actually just moved my comment to another thread to try and stop from spamming this one to talk about it, maybe I was a little to quick. It's now combined with the window topic in suggestions, figured I'd just add buffs there. 

  probably a good idea to move it... send a link or thread title when you have time please.

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2 hours ago, HuDawg said:

How is anything im posting bullshit.  When im doing exactly what im saying?  Is my game broken?

 

I also disagree with the rest of you posted.  Besides, Im not saying their should be NO strength in numbers.  Im saying Jason should not have to stand there like an idiot for 5-10 minutes just because nearly EVERY hit is a stun.  Every melee slashes gets healed.   In a group attack situation.  

Theres limits to this..   There needs to be something to deter Counselors from whooping his ass NON STOP besides weapons breaking and running out of med sprays.     Attacking Jason should be a last resort NOT the 1st option.   

A few minor tweaks to this.  Would still allow for strength in numbers.   It would just deter players from sticking around and doing it.   You gotta run away...or die. Thats like, the point of the game.

Go crowd fund your own F13 game then, because this one will never be the one you described in your original post. 

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Counselors SHOULD be focused on escape, thats how the movies are and only the final survivor(2 max if im not mistaken) end up putting jason down.

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33 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

OOoh im not exaggerating.  I might not be saying the exact numbers but its extremely close,.  Infact its close to perfect..  And im 100% correct on describing i what im seeing in game.  (Thats not a debate)

So no, its not bias. Im just telling you how  it is from my own experience as PLAYING AS COUNSELOR!  

 

And to be honest i disagree with the rest of what you posted.  So i won't be responding to it. Nothing personal..    

But if you think I gives rats ass about about MAINS.  You haven't been paying attention

 

Sure, and I am 100% correct on describing what I am seeing (no debate there). That leaves us at a standstill. Only one of us is exagerrating though, so that leaves things pretty obvious. 9/10 times jason is hot with a weapon his not stunned for 5-10 seconds. That is an exagerration, as is counsellors taking 1 second to heal. Its closer to 2 seconds, which is double that.

No need to respond if you disagree, but seeing as most of the rest of my post was about how Jason can still kill counsellors, it would seem that you are saying he cannot, which is factually incorrect. Jason does not lose the ability to kill when ganged up on, he just has to work for it more.

As for MAINS, you are the one who keeps mentioning them. Doesn't matter to me.

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18 minutes ago, AdrianBlackbear said:

Go crowd fund your own F13 game then, because this one will never be the one you described in your original post. 

it is not always the BEST option but it will sometimes be the first option for people just to have some fun. That is what online games are for. It is people versus people. An offline single player game will be far more predictable, that's why the bots typically run. 

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14 minutes ago, AdrianBlackbear said:

Go crowd fund your own F13 game then, because this one will never be the one you described in your original post. 

Its literally 99.9999999999999999% close to how i would want a F13th game.   Why i would crowd fund for a new F13th game just to remove circle jerk gang bangs?
 

 

Some of you people make me laugh...lol.

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53 minutes ago, dandop1984 said:

Overall I do agree, but I feel there's inconsistencies with Jason being stunned. Jason's with -Stun and +stun seem to be very marginal, and almost a throw away stat.  I've stunned J9 countless times with wrenches,and no stun perks on, and I can barely see or tell a difference between stunning J9 or J3. I do feel at least + and - stun Jasons should use some tweaking to add more noticeable value to their stat.

Now regarding if Jason doesn't know how to counter a gang attack. That does come with experience. And experience is really the key to playing both Counsellor and Jason. I reached my 1000 counsellor match back in September, and I have yet to even reach 500 matches as Jason. So just by the amount of time played I'm considered to be more experienced at Counsellor  than I'm at Jason.

Now given the sheer amount of time people play counsellors. why on earth would the game developers want to make it even more easy for them? A good example of this is go look at the description of the Strength stat, it still says "Reduces the Stamina Cost of Combat Actions" That is a total lie, it's no longer the case. They removed the stamina cost some time ago, and now any counsellor with 1 strength can beat on Jason with ZERO penalty to their Stamina.

Now when people say this game is difficult for the Jason player, and there should be some adjustments made, and Counsellor mains say otherwise, and say the balance is perfect. Please remember that stat description, as that's the perfect example how Gun/illfonic favour Counsellor Victories.

Agreed with most of your post. And I absolutely think the devs favor counsellors in some ways. I also think they favor Jason in others, but at the end of the day they favor counsellors more when it comes to small things. We could go back in forth with examples of favoritism to both sides forever. But in the end I would agree that small things favor counsellors.

But I think this is because Jason always, always has the ability to kill a counsellor with the press of a button, or 3-4 presses of melee. Counsellors cannot negate that. They can try and they might succeed, but Jason is always favored when it comes to big things. He is cabable of killing a counsellor in a matter of seconds. Thus, a good Jason should always be able to get a handful of kills.

Just because a group of counsellors decide to try their luck and beat on Jason doesn't really change anything. At the end of the day if the Jaaon player is better than them he will at least get some kills because of the big things in his favor.

The devs want it to be hard for Jason to get 8/8 and easy for a few counsellors to escape, with everything else being left up to skill and luck. The game is not perfectly balanced. I myself think Jasons grab should be widened. But overall it is pretty balanced and demanding major changes (the op demanded a stun bar that counsellors have to fill just to get a stun off on Jason) is where bias comes in. I am all for minor changes, but not major ones.

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17 minutes ago, CPLhicks31 said:

(the op demanded a stun bar that counsellors have to fill just to get a stun off on Jason) is where bias comes in. I am all for minor changes, but not major ones.

I didn't demand anything.. I was just rattlen' off some random ideas to stop group beat downs that render Jason useless for the entire duration. Infact that idea is probably my worst one.  You can't take ONE comment as a reason as to why im BIAS.   Even tho i don't why it would even matter.  Because if  I was bias id say so..

And im not sure how a 'good' Jason is supposed to get around this.  His only hope is get lucky enough to pull off a quick choke or head punch ( And i do mean lucky) OR wait for everyone to break their weapons and run out of med sprays.     This can can on for a while...(And thats my issue with it)

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8 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

I didn't demand anything.. I was just rattlen' off some random ideas to stop group beat downs that render Jason useless for the entire duration. Infact that idea is probably my worst one.  You can't take ONE comment as a reason as to why im BIAS.   Even tho i don't why it would even matter.  Because if  I was bias id say so..

And im not sure how a 'good' Jason is supposed to get around this.  His only hope is get lucky enough to pull off a quick choke or head punch ( And i do mean lucky) OR wait for everyone to break their weapons and run out of med sprays.     This can can on for a while...(And thats my issue with it)

You are right about that. You did not demand, at least not in that post. I was lumping you in with others and you have my apology for that.

Thats my point. It can go on for a while but after a while it will go in favor of most competent Jasons. So why does it really matter then? It becomes a complaint that A) counsellors made Jason look stupid and B ) then he made them look dumb and dead.

Other things he can do: block, knife, shift combo, stalk combo, not be a bull.

I would be in favor of a simple push back move on cool down that he can use, but that is about it. It would need only to make him look less stupid but not make it ant easier for him, which is a very fine line.

 

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2 hours ago, CPLhicks31 said:

You are right about that. You did not demand, at least not in that post. I was lumping you in with others and you have my apology for that.

 

Its cool man..

 

.I did have some other ideas tho.   Like a HulkaMeter.    When after Jason gets hit to many times he HULKS right out of it.  Waving his finger NO NO NO...

 

lol

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On ‎6‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 9:24 AM, xllxENIGMAxllx said:

i have no problem i haven't died as Jason since post october there's no problem, stun chance as been reduce with that patch , the only problem are the mechanics. I mean running around tables are pathetic we can still counter it but still.

Players always complains whatever change the devs brings. As for grab speed Jason is known to be slow but a strong killing machine.

This is no offense to you, but if you consistently play against a team of experienced counselors that work together, YOU ARE GOING TO DIE AS JASON! The only way someone has not died yet as Jason, is if they run the entire match when there mask comes off or there playing against a bunch of randoms who don't work together. Jason is 60/40 in favor of killing a counselor when its 1 on 1, but its about 25/75 when they are working as a unit. Mainly because you cant body block anymore as Jason.

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I prefer the game as it was initially on launch. Then counselor players had to whine and moan that they couldn't escape every single time.

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On 6/6/2018 at 1:52 PM, HuDawg said:

Before any Jason or Counselor Mains chime in..   I don't main anything and all my comments are coming from a Counselor perspective.  And i actually want to Jason to be unstoppable killing machine because it makes the game more intense as a counselor.

 

Since the last update.  I've seen Jason being killed more in the last few weeks then i have all year long.  And its easy to see why.

Because after the last update.  The grabs radius is very small, very slow recovery from grabs and you can no longer combat stance/quick block.  This has made counselors much more aggressive.     Especially if they have the medic perk and a few pocket knives.

Its also seems like 99% of every single melee attack by a Counselor stuns Jason.  Like every single attack on Jason just lays him out.  Hell i even ran around grabbing every weapon i could find and trying it.  It always stuns him.

The grab sure as hell needs to have next to ZERO recovery time after a grab  OR counselors need more recover time after the swing a melee weapon to even things out.

Its far too easy now.. for a small group to gang up on Jason.    Which is pretty much why im seeing so many Jason kills.   

 

 

My solutions to the current state.  

Stun chances and time stunned by counselors need to be nerfed.   Pretty much everytime i hit Jason, hes stunned and just stands there for 5-10 seconds..  Even if Jason hits the counselor a split second earlier.  The counselor still stuns Jason.  (Which looks pretty stupid) .  

Stun time needs to be nerfed.. Stun chances need to be nerfed. 

Combat BLOCK needs to be fixed.   

Maybe give combat stance the old grab?   Seems like it would work well as a small swipe grab.

Jason melee should instantly cancel all Counselor Melee attacks. 

Remove counselors ability to hold duplicate items.  Theres to many heals in this game.

Increase heal time to 5-10 seconds.

( Know grab recovery is supposed to be changed, but it needs to be next to nothing)

 

I know.. Its the internet.  Everyone disagrees about everything.   But this is just how i see it.  For better or for worse.

Well said. I agree 100%

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On ‎6‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 8:52 AM, HuDawg said:

Before any Jason or Counselor Mains chime in..   I don't main anything and all my comments are coming from a Counselor perspective.  And i actually want to Jason to be unstoppable killing machine because it makes the game more intense as a counselor.

 

Since the last update.  I've seen Jason being killed more in the last few weeks then i have all year long.  And its easy to see why.

Because after the last update.  The grabs radius is very small, very slow recovery from grabs and you can no longer combat stance/quick block.  This has made counselors much more aggressive.     Especially if they have the medic perk and a few pocket knives.

Its also seems like 99% of every single melee attack by a Counselor stuns Jason.  Like every single attack on Jason just lays him out.  Hell i even ran around grabbing every weapon i could find and trying it.  It always stuns him.

The grab sure as hell needs to have next to ZERO recovery time after a grab  OR counselors need more recover time after the swing a melee weapon to even things out.

Its far too easy now.. for a small group to gang up on Jason.    Which is pretty much why im seeing so many Jason kills.   

 

 

My solutions to the current state.  

Stun chances and time stunned by counselors need to be nerfed.   Pretty much everytime i hit Jason, hes stunned and just stands there for 5-10 seconds..  Even if Jason hits the counselor a split second earlier.  The counselor still stuns Jason.  (Which looks pretty stupid) .  

Stun time needs to be nerfed.. Stun chances need to be nerfed. 

Combat BLOCK needs to be fixed.   

Maybe give combat stance the old grab?   Seems like it would work well as a small swipe grab.

Jason melee should instantly cancel all Counselor Melee attacks. 

Remove counselors ability to hold duplicate items.  Theres to many heals in this game.

Increase heal time to 5-10 seconds.

( Know grab recovery is supposed to be changed, but it needs to be next to nothing)

 

I know.. Its the internet.  Everyone disagrees about everything.   But this is just how i see it.  For better or for worse.

Let me some it up in fewer words. ITS A TOTAL FUCKING SHIT SHOW FOR JASON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Played few games with a group of friends last night.  They where all lvl 150.  (Could be some of the people here)

The player as Jason got one of the biggest beat downs i've ever seen.  Its was just brutal.  And the people beating the crap out of him where his friends..lol

We all got to talking about this issue.     Most of them just wanted STUN immunity for 10 seconds AFTER getting out of a STUN..   And a faster grab recovery.

Also..  all of them agreed with me saying that healing should take about 5 seconds.

 

The reality is.  Even if they removed all weapons from the game Counselors could still all attack each objective and Jason can't be everywhere at once.  Meaning even without weapons counselors will escape.  (Im not saying remove all weapons, im just making a point)

 

There is zero reason for Counselors to be able stun Jason so easily and so often.   The games balance was perfect just before this patch.  Hope gun can get it back together sooner than later.

 

 

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On 6/6/2018 at 8:52 AM, HuDawg said:

My solutions to the current state.  

Stun chances and time stunned by counselors need to be nerfed.   Pretty much everytime i hit Jason, hes stunned and just stands there for 5-10 seconds..  Even if Jason hits the counselor a split second earlier.  The counselor still stuns Jason.  (Which looks pretty stupid) .  

Stun time needs to be nerfed.. Stun chances need to be nerfed. 

Combat BLOCK needs to be fixed.   

Maybe give combat stance the old grab?   Seems like it would work well as a small swipe grab.

Jason melee should instantly cancel all Counselor Melee attacks. 

Remove counselors ability to hold duplicate items.  Theres to many heals in this game.

Increase heal time to 5-10 seconds.

( Know grab recovery is supposed to be changed, but it needs to be next to nothing)

 

I know.. Its the internet.  Everyone disagrees about everything.   But this is just how i see it.  For better or for worse.

I have been thinking about this as well. Jason may or may not need a buff in general, but he definitely needs a buff when it comes to facing multiple opponents/gangs.

I've seen other suggestions about buffing Jason's stun resistance, block, and what have you.

I propose a rework of the rage meter, and rage status. Rage would charge faster when multiple counselors are within a certain proximity. Maybe a 50% increase to charge speed per counselor beyond the first. That alone would not be effective, but adding a stun resist of 5% per counselor beyond the first (and/or 10% in rage mode). Maybe also toss in a damage bonus, and suddenly, ganging up against Jason makes him, in effect, stronger. 

Is there precedence for this in the movies? Well, there's not really evidence of morphing or shifting, so this is kind of moot. But, Jason does score a triple kill against those paintballers in Part 6. 

The key is to disincentivize roving gangs of kill-happy counselors. So, giving Jason circumstantial bonuses in those situations would be a way of buffing him against that without over buffing him in general. 

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6 minutes ago, Quinn FTW said:

I have been thinking about this as well. Jason may or may not need a buff in general, but he definitely needs a buff when it comes to facing multiple opponents/gangs.

I've seen other suggestions about buffing Jason's stun resistance, block, and what have you.

I propose a rework of the rage meter, and rage status. Rage would charge faster when multiple counselors are within a certain proximity. Maybe a 50% increase to charge speed per counselor beyond the first. That alone would not be effective, but adding a stun resist of 5% per counselor beyond the first (and/or 10% in rage mode). Maybe also toss in a damage bonus, and suddenly, ganging up against Jason makes him, in effect, stronger. 

Is there precedence for this in the movies? Well, there's not really evidence of morphing or shifting, so this is kind of moot. But, Jason does score a triple kill against those paintballers in Part 6. 

The key is to disincentivize roving gangs of kill-happy counselors. So, giving Jason circumstantial bonuses in those situations would be a way of buffing him against that without over buffing him in general. 

Ya..  I mean theres lots of ways to fix this.  But the simpler the better, and its easier for Gun to that out.

I think really.  This the best solution now.  (After talking about this with people in game last night)

- STUN immunity for 10 seconds AFTER getting out of a STUN.. 

- Faster grab recovery.

- Healing should take about 5 seconds.

Those 3 things alone would remove the relentless gang beat downs.  And put pressure back on counselors to RUN away.  But still make it so counselors can fight back at a reasonable pace.


And it would probably be easy for Gun to implement. 

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6 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Ya..  I mean theres lots of ways to fix this.  But the simpler the better, and its easier for Gun to that out.

I think really.  This the best solution now.  (After talking about this with people in game last night)

- STUN immunity for 10 seconds AFTER getting out of a STUN.. 

- Faster grab recovery.

I agree with the stun immunity. I'm not sure about 10 seconds, but at least 5 more after recovering.

I agree with faster recovery from grab, and from grab escapes.

I also concur with the people that say that meleeing should expend stamina, not recover it.

Point is, there are solutions. Fans have plenty of ideas, even good ones. I can't say what would or would not work, but the point is that these things should be tested out.

Unfortunately, testing/QA is something the developers seem to be repeatedly criticized for not performing. 

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1 hour ago, Quinn FTW said:

I agree with the stun immunity. I'm not sure about 10 seconds, but at least 5 more after recovering.

A while ago people where talking about this here.

If remember correctly.  One of the ideas was sort 5-10 second sun immunity but its RNG.

 

Meaning everytime Jason is stunned its random between 5-10 second.  

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16 hours ago, humerabi said:

This is no offense to you, but if you consistently play against a team of experienced counselors that work together, YOU ARE GOING TO DIE AS JASON! The only way someone has not died yet as Jason, is if they run the entire match when there mask comes off or there playing against a bunch of randoms who don't work together. Jason is 60/40 in favor of killing a counselor when its 1 on 1, but its about 25/75 when they are working as a unit. Mainly because you cant body block anymore as Jason.

Not necessary there is many ways to counter death by blocking shacks (Jason at the door) , trapping power to avoid tommy , Killing Tommy etc...

The only think i will say is that Jason is too vulnerable unmasked.

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Not trying to Bring Up any Past Posts Or Drama, But I completely disagree with Buffing either Side, I read all of the Important Posts In here, And I agree With CPL (And the Defense Force of Stop bullshiting) Some of the stats you brought up were completely bullshit, I hit Jason with Jenny 1-4 Times, Only 2/4 Times Did the Wrench or The Bat Stun him for me, So It's not even 90% Of the Time, It takes more than 1 and 2 Hits from Deborah to Actually Stun Him, Same With AJ Or Any other Counselor with Low Luck And High Luck too, Jason Doesn't need to be changed, He is in a Normal Spot, And Organized GROUPS are meant to be OP, They are ORGANIZED For a Reason.

Anyways, Anything that is about Buffing One Side is almost always a Bias and The Poster will almost always bring up Bullshit Stats, So I disagree with this post.

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