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HuDawg

The current state of Jason vs Counselors

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Before any Jason or Counselor Mains chime in..   I don't main anything and all my comments are coming from a Counselor perspective.  And i actually want to Jason to be unstoppable killing machine because it makes the game more intense as a counselor.

 

Since the last update.  I've seen Jason being killed more in the last few weeks then i have all year long.  And its easy to see why.

Because after the last update.  The grabs radius is very small, very slow recovery from grabs and you can no longer combat stance/quick block.  This has made counselors much more aggressive.     Especially if they have the medic perk and a few pocket knives.

Its also seems like 99% of every single melee attack by a Counselor stuns Jason.  Like every single attack on Jason just lays him out.  Hell i even ran around grabbing every weapon i could find and trying it.  It always stuns him.

The grab sure as hell needs to have next to ZERO recovery time after a grab  OR counselors need more recover time after the swing a melee weapon to even things out.

Its far too easy now.. for a small group to gang up on Jason.    Which is pretty much why im seeing so many Jason kills.   

 

 

My solutions to the current state.  

Stun chances and time stunned by counselors need to be nerfed.   Pretty much everytime i hit Jason, hes stunned and just stands there for 5-10 seconds..  Even if Jason hits the counselor a split second earlier.  The counselor still stuns Jason.  (Which looks pretty stupid) .  

Stun time needs to be nerfed.. Stun chances need to be nerfed. 

Combat BLOCK needs to be fixed.   

Maybe give combat stance the old grab?   Seems like it would work well as a small swipe grab.

Jason melee should instantly cancel all Counselor Melee attacks. 

Remove counselors ability to hold duplicate items.  Theres to many heals in this game.

Increase heal time to 5-10 seconds.

( Know grab recovery is supposed to be changed, but it needs to be next to nothing)

 

I know.. Its the internet.  Everyone disagrees about everything.   But this is just how i see it.  For better or for worse.

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Well...

No offense against you obviously. With multiple threads pretty much saying the game is as broken as ever (now with audio, visual and gameplay bugs) with bugs and Jason being woefully powerless against even two counselors with the right tools.

I'm sure the devs won't do anything that requires effort and instead...

- 2 more knives

- A base 'speed increase' to all Jasons that's pretty much unnoticeable except for the slowest counselors probably

- A slight speed up of the grab, which was noted as one of their ideas in the 'big meeting' post update

I'm sure they think if they speed up the grab itself, that will be the fix all, cure all

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7 minutes ago, The Wolf with that Toast said:

I like it.

Now I am just waiting for Tiffanycakes.

I will speak on Tiffycakes behalf.  'GET BETTER"!!

 

But.. im seeing really good Jason players being gang banged.  Forcing that Jason to melee.  Jason gets in a melee slash, but then Jason get stunned.  Counselor heals.  And this loop can go on for 10-15 mins.

At this point the best thing counselors can do is group up..  And forcefully beat the snot of of Jason till they accomplish an objective.  And if killing Jason is their objective, Jason is pretty much screwed.

As a Jason player.. You're pretty much hoping for counselors to stay spread apart and not work together.  Because just a small amount of team work can make Jasons job next to impossible.   Its like you need to wait for all the weapons to break, all the heals to be gone.. all the pocket knives to get used.     

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Just now, The Wolf with that Toast said:

That sounds really bad.........I haven´t played online yet but maybe I should just wait.

Well if no one works together...and plays like idiots.    Its not that bad...lol

But if you see a group of players moving together..   Its like Jason is going against the army in the movie 300.

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i have no problem i haven't died as Jason since post october there's no problem, stun chance as been reduce with that patch , the only problem are the mechanics. I mean running around tables are pathetic we can still counter it but still.

Players always complains whatever change the devs brings. As for grab speed Jason is known to be slow but a strong killing machine.

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I agree with practically everything.

I really like Jason’s new grab, but agree that counselors should be just as vulnerable after a melee swing.

And very little difference between Jason’s with a stun weakness and stun strength. Practically every Jason gets knocked on his ass.

Also didn’t melee swings use up stamina before? Now I can keep swinging with no stamina drain. The description of the strength stat says “less cost of Stamina points “ They gotta bring this back. Low strength counselors would think twice before fighting 

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41 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

Its far too easy now.. for a small group to gang up on Jason

Strength in numbers... It really does make sense. Not once in any of the movies did everyone try ganging up on him. If they had, maybe they ALL would've survived.

They all (most of them, anyway) die because they split up. Jason is able to EASILY pick them off one by one. But if they had any sort of common sense, Jason would've struggled to kill them all. Sure, he would probably get a few, but some would still get away. Jason is only "defeated" when they choose to stick together.

So realistically, it's all working as it should.

Jason could use a buff when playing against smarter players, but in quick play he's totally OP.

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16 minutes ago, dandop1984 said:

 

Also didn’t melee swings use up stamina before? Now I can keep swinging with no stamina drain. The description of the strength stat says “less cost of Stamina points “ They gotta bring this back. Low strength counselors would think twice before fighting 

Probably. Couldn´t we also get our rage meter up by letting the cops shoot you? That also changed.

Quote

Strength in numbers... It really does make sense. Not once in any of the movies did everyone try ganging up on him. If they had, maybe they ALL would've survived.

They all (most of them, anyway) die because they split up. Jason is able to EASILY pick them off one by one. But if they had any sort of common sense, Jason would've struggled to kill them all. Sure, he would probably get a few, but some would still get away. Jason is only "defeated" when they choose to stick together.

So realistically, it's all working as it should.

Jason could use a buff when playing against smarter players, but in quick play he's totally OP.

They also didn´t know he was there.

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8 minutes ago, Truth said:

 

Jason could use a buff when playing against smarter players, but in quick play he's totally OP.

That depends on whos playing in QP.

QP is filled with the the worst and best types of players.  This is why im seeing rolling groups of players killing Jason so often now.

 

Its too easy to stun Jason.. Too easy to heal.    And Jasons slow grab and broken block is mostly the cause of it.. combined with the healing and stunning.

This game is sort of backwards.    Little girl hits Jason with a love tap, Jason falls down on the ground for 10 seconds.   Jason melee slashes the same girl, she heals in 1 second and is only stunned for about 0.3 seconds.

 THATS BACKWARDS!

If anything it should take 5-10 seconds to heal with a med spray... And Jason current stun time should be the current health spray heal time which is about a second.

Stuns should also either be nerfed or put on some sort of cool down timer.  Maybe 20 seconds per stun..  ( Or a stun health bar, that needs to be  built up on Jason before hes stunned.. After getting stunned it resets)

 

 

 

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It does seem to me that every other game has two or three people just group up and hunt Jason, I just wish they'd put the damn parts on the map while they speed loot before grouping up. As a counselor it just means Jason's probably busy and I can leave and it really doesn't bother me when I'm Jason. As soon as I figure out they're hunters I go kill everyone else, collect knives and trap a house I want to fight them at. You would be surprised how easy it is to lead them to the house then divide and conquer. Tommy's in a trap, Shift grab the sweater girl or just hack Tommy down. It only takes one trap at a window or broken door to turn it all around. (Some cabins you need to do the back door as that's where they exit.)

I think the game needs to grow and nerfing things doesn't necessarily balance them. So I think we should push to have new items that force choices rather than artificially limiting what people can do, that way the game grows and you see less med spray salesmen. 

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11 minutes ago, Truth said:

 

Jason could use a buff when playing against smarter players, but in quick play he's totally OP.

Do you play quick play often? Because I survive almost every game in quick play.

I hear a lot of people mention quick play is somehow difficult as a counselor, and surviving is a rare feat. 

I really don’t think that is valid anymore. The general player base knows about the meta perks, marking items, beating Jason etc 

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8 minutes ago, The Wolf with that Toast said:

They also didn´t know he was there.

Does that make my point invalid? Once they realized what was going on and decided to stick together, Jason was defeated. You just watched most of the movies, right? Isn't that how it worked?

7 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

That depends on whos playing in QP.

@dandop1984

*in quick play with stupid people

Guess I should've been more specific. I'm usually in quick play. When I'm Jason, I usually clear the lobby. When there are a few smarter players, it's more difficult. When one of them isn't Jason, I'm probably going to escape.

I haven't seen the hunting groups in months, but I'm sure they still exist. But that is the way it SHOULD work. Like I said, strength in numbers.

 

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4 minutes ago, Slasher_Clone said:

I think the game needs to grow and nerfing things doesn't necessarily balance them.

Balancing a game is like a teeter totter. If all the weight is on one side.. The teeter totter doesn't teeter.   Nerfing is just remove the weight from one side.

To me nerf isn't or buff isn't a bad word.   Its just a part of balancing.

 

 

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I love the "I've never been killed" ones.

Apparently organized teams of 5-6 individuals, who get sure one of them spawns as Jarvis and then fetch the sweater in groups of three or more, are no problem for them.

It's funny, because I've got the game since october and I've NEVER seen such geniuses. On the contrary, I've seen plenty of Jasons hiding in the water like pussies as soon as they lose the mask. If that's what you mean by "surviving", well hell yeah, even my grandma could do that.

THe truth is, Jason is HOPELESS against a well organized team, unless they fuck up.

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10 minutes ago, Truth said:

Like I said, strength in numbers.

 

More like stuns in numbers... :D

Im not really here to argue with people about the quality of the player base in QP.  Im only stating what i see.. and cause and effect of the last patch.

QP is like playing a lottery.   You can easily end up in a lobby with 4-5 friends or in game with random low levels that don't do anything.   

I have no problem with strength in numbers.  But Jason does not to be so easily stunned and dominated.  Most of which is only happening due to Quick Block being broken and grab being so slow.   With Jason slashing being nulled by a shit ton of health sprays.   (Which is already been brought up in another topic)

You may like it.. I see things differently.  I perfer to nerf myself.. I don't want to be able to do this to Jason.   

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17 minutes ago, Truth said:

Does that make my point invalid? Once they realized what was going on and decided to stick together, Jason was defeated. You just watched most of the movies, right? Isn't that how it worked?

Ok but give me an Scenario which could have happened in the movies where they gang up on him.

Wasn´t it :

Part II - Ginny confused Jason with the Sweater and then Paul came and blablabla

Part III - Wasn´t it just Chris Higgins?

Part IV - Tommy confused him and actually killed him , The other only distracted him and demasked him (final Girl)

Part VI - Only Tommy

Part VII - Tina actually did everything

Part VIII - Sewers

I am not going to talk about that one

Jason X - Well , they escaped with Teamwork but only KM actually did something to him

So it´s more like the final Girls are the ones.

I don´t know but you kinda Sound a bit angry , so I don´t want to get into Trouble. So I just mean this peaceful.

He got smacked with a shovel and that only pissed him off , nothing more , aka no stun. He also got punched once a lot and it didn´t bother him.

Let us get more into the Shovel. A Shovel......would probably a high stun weapon. So if he got really pissed I think he could have just killed them. Rip that one´s heart out , Punch that one´s head off , smack the one with the other one ,......

Hell , could have also just ,,slashed´´ at that Moment.

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I just dont think this game can ever get the right balance. All I've seen since playing from oct 17, is this seesaw of patches that is met by either joy or hate from either the counsellor or jason players. There's never a overall unified agreement that a patch is good for everyone.  If you tweak the grab again, most counsellor main players will lose their minds like they did over the pine Hurst patch. 

I don't think it's ever gonna be in a sweet spot, I'd love to be proven wrong. 

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10 minutes ago, Sir Jack said:

I love the "I've never been killed" ones.

Who said they haven't been killed? You're literally making shit up now lol

I've been playing since LAST May (digital release). I've been killed once, and only 2 people were involved. I've also dealt with hunting groups before. I HATE those people that hide in the water. Just fight back. Who cares if you die?

5 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

I have no problem with strength in numbers.  But Jason does not to be so easily stunned and dominated.  Most of which is only happening due to Quick Block being broken and grab being so slow.   With Jason slashing being nulled by a shit ton of health sprays.   (Which is already been brought up in another topic)

I've said before (prepatch) that Jason needs a few frames after stuns where he is invulnerable. Not enough to grab and kill someone, just enough to morph/shift away. The group is only a problem if you let them stay in a group around you. Get away and try to pick them off one by one. Grab is slow and could be sped up a bit, but not too much. It could also be expanded slightly. Haven't had to use block enough lately to really know how fucked it is, but I believe you. I've already made my opinion of the sprays clear.

9 minutes ago, The Wolf with that Toast said:

I don´t know but you kinda Sound a bit angry , so I don´t want to get into Trouble. So I just mean this peaceful.

Not angry at all. Just presenting an opposing view. Jason could use a few very minor buffs/fixes, but this is the best balance we have had since launch. I just want them to stop fucking with it.

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1 minute ago, kohagan said:

I just dont think this game can ever get the right balance. All I've seen since playing from oct 17, is this seesaw of patches that is met by either joy or hate from either the counsellor or jason players. There's never a overall unified agreement that a patch is good for everyone.  If you tweak the grab again, most counsellor main players will lose their minds like they did over the pine Hurst patch. 

I don't think it's ever gonna be in a sweet spot, I'd love to be proven wrong. 

Counselor mains that want it easy need to be ignored.  Playing as Jason should not be frustrating or look silly.   This is Jasons game..

I love playing as counselor.  And when it becomes too easy to dominate Jason it ruins my experience as counselor.

 

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Well... Seems odd that most who like the current balance base their argument on qp and bad or disorganized players. You should judge the balance-factor on good Jason vs good group. If I play any game , lets say NHL, against a skilled or better player or team, I don't call out nerfs for Crosby because his wristshot is too op, or because the opponents team is co-ordinated.

Killing Jason? I haven't died yet, but the people I play with could have killed me lots of times. They are just too nice. They are content with just beating me up and having fun together.

Edit. @HuDawg  we seem to agree on many aspects. What system did you play on?

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2 minutes ago, lasse_hei said:

Well... Seems odd that most who like the current balance base their argument on qp and bad or disorganized players.

I base it on that because most players use quick play. If the balance seems fine there (which I feel it is), then they should leave it.

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Just now, Truth said:

I base it on that because most players use quick play. If the balance seems fine there (which I feel it is), then they should leave it.

I 100% disagree, but am willing to debate. In respecful manner ofcourse :)

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