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Alkavian

Jason Roles / Unexplored Stat Profiles

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I was having some thoughts in regards to the general profiles of various Jasons in the game. With the current imbalance between Jason stats, we do have quite a specific meta established (which I think needs to be addressed) in regards to what abilities are prime and which ones are throwaway. Assuming Gun/Illfonic won't be adjusting Jason's stats and what they do anytime soon, lets look at some profiles for Jason that could be used without resorting to the +Destruction, +Shift, no -Traps concept.

 

IDEA #1 (Undead Objective Controller):  This Jason would be able to teleport often, interdict well in the water, and ambush his prey effectively. Taking no penalty to traps and Shift (while not handing out Shift+) would make for a very good guard dog and ambush killer without resorting to Destruction buffs, Traps, and Shift to make him effective. Stunning slightly longer, not being able to run, and having a few less hit points blunt the profile without making it ineffective in an objective controller role.

STRENGTHS:

+Morph

+Water Speed

+ Stalk

WEAKNESSES:

- Can Run

- Stun Resistance

- Hit Points

 

IDEA #2 (Utilitarian): More traps and more knives. A hop in his step for evening jogs and no penalty to swim. Nothing too offensive and nothing too defensive.

STRENGTHS:

+Traps

+Throwing Knives

+Can Run

WEAKNESSES:

- Sense

- Defense

- Grip Strength

 

Do you guys have any ideas for Jason profiles that don't fall into the typical meta wish list?

 

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Why you always have the best ideas? I expect this to have lots of likes!

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I actually had a similar idea a while back to the number two profile. Kinda of a relentless hunter type Jason. Might swap out -sense for -stun resistance. 

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Just now, NoOneK9503 said:

Why you always have the best ideas? I expect this to have lots of likes!

Flattered you think so man.

I do honestly hope that GUN/ILLFONIC revisit Jason's abilities and give them all +'s/-'s/ and neutral effects. It is hard to give meaningful bonuses and penalties when so many of them do not matter in practical terms. If we have +Destruction, why don't we have - Destruction? Seems pretty simple to fix. + takes a barricaded door down in 3 hits. Neutral does it in 4 hits. - does it in 5 hits.

2 minutes ago, thrawn3054 said:

 Might swap out -sense for -stun resistance. 

It honestly doesn't matter much. Both are inconsequential in their overall impact. That is part of the problem though don't you think? Too much samey and not enough differentiation in STRENGTHS/WEAKNESSES. ?

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I don't understand the point of this.

Is it a stats wish-list based on the current meta and/or anti-meta? 

It's not taking into account that every Jason has to be somewhat unique, so only one Jason gets these stats?

 

The only stat that I can see that has a real significance is Traps anyway.    

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1 hour ago, WashingtonJones said:

I don't understand the point of this.

Is it a stats wish-list based on the current meta and/or anti-meta?

It is very much an anti-meta take on making viable Jason builds given the current limitations in what stats do. For example, Part IV Jason is very good. But people look at his - Shift AND - Traps and rate him very low. He is actually quite balanced. His power offensive is offset with meaningful penalties to his objective control. If you look at Part VIII, he has all great aspects and no meaningful weaknesses; he is actually very badly designed in that regard (considering current traits/abilities). It is easy to see why he is highly favored. Same goes for Savini. They are the "gold standard" because of their capabilities. No Jasons are going to really measure up to them because they would be too much of the same thing. But that is part of the problem. There are optimal stats because the stat balancing is skewed and not every Jason is actually particularly unique because of it. You can basically draw a line between running and walking (which is pretty minuscule); everything else is a play on getting +Destruction, +Shift, and not taking negative Traps.

1 hour ago, thrawn3054 said:

@Alkavian I only suggest the swap as -sense doesn't fit with the Relentless Hunter Jason build theme.

Ah I see. Yeah, you could certainly do it. The problem is that it doesn't matter other than what a person thematically has in their head about a given Jason role. I wish it mattered. That is kind of the point I'm trying to make with this thread I guess.

Another issue I see is the inclusion of Can Run +/- on the Strengths/Weaknesses list. It saps some of the versatility in configuring new Jason stat builds and helping differentiating them more by taking up wither a Strength or Weakness trait. Just default to living Jasons run and undead Jasons walk. Everyone could track that as basic build tenet and call it good.

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35 minutes ago, Alkavian said:

It is very much an anti-meta take on making viable Jason builds given the current limitations in what stats do. For example, Part IV Jason is very good. But people look at his - Shift AND - Traps and rate him very low. He is actually quite balanced. His power offensive is offset with meaningful penalties to his objective control. If you look at Part VIII, he has at great aspects and no meaningful weaknesses; he is actually very badly designed in that regard (considering current traits/abilities). It is easy to see why he is highly favored. Same goes for Savini. They are the "gold standard" because of their capabilities. No Jasons are going to really measure up to them because they would be too much of the same thing. But that is part of the problem. There are optimal stats because the stat balancing is skewed and not every Jason is actually particularly unique because of it. You can basically draw a line between running and walking (which is pretty minuscule); everything else is a play on getting +Destruction, +Shift, and not taking negative Traps

In my 1000+ hours of playing, I haven't seen any real evidence that Jason's stats have much impact. I'll be in crews and we'll be killing (good player) Jasons or escaping round after round, regardless if it's a Savini or a Part 8; running or walking Jasons. But then they'll be players using J2, 4 or 7 that completely destroy us, excluding bad RNG and glitches. 

And it happens with me as Jason. I'll be playing as a counselor and everybody is doing everything right, timing their hits, busting out traps, going for the sweater, etc. Then I'll be my J7 and there's little they can do unless I make a lot of mistakes, and at that point it doesn't matter which Jason I use.

CSing doors reduces +Destruction's viability considerably (for me at least). +Shift is good for on the fly grabs/distance reduction or when you completely misread the noise pings and Morph too far off.
If you play loose, then maybe the stats have more viability.

 

They would have to re-balance the game to give Jason's stats more worth. 

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10 minutes ago, WashingtonJones said:

<snip>  it doesn't matter which Jason I use.

First off, that is a sign of a good player to be effective under all conditions.

To a good player. No it doesn't matter. To most, there are a few great stats and everything else has no real bearing. I think everything should matter more. Jasons should feel totally different from one role to the next.

10 minutes ago, WashingtonJones said:

 

They would have to re-balance the game to give Jason's stats more worth. 

 

I hope they do.

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What about -/+ fear? It seems obvious that you'd be far more terrified of the undead Jason than the living ones. 

Also, I'd personally love to see a hunter type Jason like the OP suggested. Maybe reboot Jason if gun media ever gets the rights to him. 

And another +morph Jason besides part 2. I can't stand his red neck appearance.

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Jason Idea:

 

 

Pros:

+Shift

+Fear

+Can Run / +Destuction 

 

Cons:

-Weapon Strength / -Can't run

-Stun Resistance

-Defense

 

This Jason would be the most versatile Jason. He has potential to be able to run down any counselor faster than Part 4 Jason can. He has +Shift and +Morph to be able to quickly traverse the maps and may even have the ability to run or destroy doors quicker to further help him out. In the event that he has +Fear, counselors would consume their stamina a lot more quicker and cause him to appear extremely fast to the counselors. The drawbacks to this however, is that he is extremely terrible when it comes to combat. He is the first Jason to have -Weapon Strength, meaning there isn't a good reason to use his regular attack instead of his grab. He is also able to become demasked and stunned more easily than the majority of Jasons.

 

This Jason would best be suited if the player is certain that they have a low chance of getting killed or harrassed as Jason. If the majority of players are slow and/or weak in the lobby, you might have a best shot with this Jason!

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30 minutes ago, Qcici said:

Jason Idea:

 

 

Pros:

+Shift

+Fear

+Can Run / +Destuction 

 

Cons:

-Weapon Strength / -Can't run

-Stun Resistance

-Defense

 

This Jason would be the most versatile Jason. He has potential to be able to run down any counselor faster than Part 4 Jason can. He has +Shift and +Morph to be able to quickly traverse the maps and may even have the ability to run or destroy doors quicker to further help him out. In the event that he has +Fear, counselors would consume their stamina a lot more quicker and cause him to appear extremely fast to the counselors. The drawbacks to this however, is that he is extremely terrible when it comes to combat. He is the first Jason to have -Weapon Strength, meaning there isn't a good reason to use his regular attack instead of his grab. He is also able to become demasked and stunned more easily than the majority of Jasons.

 

This Jason would best be suited if the player is certain that they have a low chance of getting killed or harrassed as Jason. If the majority of players are slow and/or weak in the lobby, you might have a best shot with this Jason!

I'd use him, provided he looks cool. 

I just watched Jason X the other night, and I would love to get Pre-uber Jason with his wicked chain. 

The movie isn't perfect, but it's highly entertaining and is way better than parts 8, and 9. 

That scene at the end of 9 where Jason just keeps tossing Steve around instead of killing him (among other things) pisses me off every time I rewatch the series. 

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Weird that we haven´t got a Jason with +Shift and no real weakness.........Now that I think if that , why does Part IX actually have -Traps? Does he deserve that?

Well , my Idea :

There is no escape :

+Morph

+Shift

+Throwing knives /Can run

-Can´t run / -Grip Strength

-Traps

-Defense

This one could actually be Retro-Jason.

And :

+Grip strength

+Hit points

+Sense

-Weapon strength

-Traps

-Morph

We Need a new crappy one now to Show some ,,skill´´.

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i wish the entire gameplay changed to be more proper to the movies and lore. like the human jasons part 2-"4"<before he ultimately "died" having an entirely different playstyle dependant on stealth and ambushes while the undead hodder ones are more like it is now. pt2 - 4 were easily beaten by teenage girls and even a little kid, but they got so many kills cause they were very stealthy. they never ran into huge crowds of counselors trying to slash em all to death and grabbing them and all that shit.

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4 hours ago, jahzaveamanaie said:

i wish the entire gameplay changed to be more proper to the movies and lore. like the human jasons part 2-"4"<before he ultimately "died" having an entirely different playstyle dependant on stealth and ambushes while the undead hodder ones are more like it is now. pt2 - 4 were easily beaten by teenage girls and even a little kid, but they got so many kills cause they were very stealthy. they never ran into huge crowds of counselors trying to slash em all to death and grabbing them and all that shit.

Me, too. I would love for the sequel to add some actual stealth mechanics for Jason. 

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On 6/3/2018 at 6:49 PM, Qcici said:

Jason Idea:

Pros:

+Shift

+Fear

+Can Run / +Destuction 

 

Cons:

-Weapon Strength / -Can't run

-Stun Resistance

-Defense

LOL, I think you missed my point Qcici. The idea is NOT to use +SHIFT/+DESTRUCTION as strengths and -TRAPS as the only meaningful weakness. I like your thinking on cons.

On 6/4/2018 at 5:47 AM, The Wolf with that Toast said:

There is no escape :

+Morph

+Shift

+Throwing knives /Can run

-Can´t run / -Grip Strength

-Traps

-Defense

This one could actually be Retro-Jason.

And :

+Grip strength

+Hit points

+Sense

-Weapon strength

-Traps

-Morph

We Need a new crappy one now to Show some ,,skill´´.

Sneaking that +Shift in there. The second option is pretty heavily penalized given what the current traits/abilities due. You also used the meta default of giving -Traps in both instances. ?

 

It starts to get more and more challenging to come up with designs given the way we currently look at how traits/abilities work, no? Honestly, I think that "Can Run" should be removed as a Strength/Weakness and just be inherent. Undead walk and living Jasons run. Wolf did that in his bottom example and completely left off the +Can Run in strengths. It gives more variation when one of the spots doesn't have to be a redundant acknowledgement of their ability to move.

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39 minutes ago, Alkavian said:

LOL, I think you missed my point Qcici. The idea is NOT to use +SHIFT/+DESTRUCTION as strengths and -TRAPS as the only meaningful weakness. I like your thinking on cons.

Sneaking that +Shift in there. The second option is pretty heavily penalized given what the current traits/abilities due. You also used the meta default of giving -Traps in both instances. ?

 

It starts to get more and more challenging to come up with designs given the way we currently look at how traits/abilities work, no? Honestly, I think that "Can Run" should be removed as a Strength/Weakness and just be inherent. Undead walk and living Jasons run. Wolf did that in his bottom example and completely left off the +Can Run in strengths. It gives more variation when one of the spots doesn't have to be a redundant acknowledgement of their ability to move.

Quote

lets look at some profiles for Jason that could be used without resorting to the +Destruction, +Shift, no -Traps concept.

Whoops. I actually skip often the last part of a post. Sorry.

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4 hours ago, The Wolf with that Toast said:

Whoops. I actually skip often the last part of a post. Sorry.

No worries. ?

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