Should the Perk ,,Medic´´ get removed?

[The Wolf with that Toast 433]

Should the Perk ,,Medic´´ get removed? Yes or no ? I voted for Yes. (There are many reasons for yes and I am being lazy to search the best) I am wondering how you guys feel about the perk , so I made a poll.

Well , Shift-Grabbing can be easily countered with an unpredictable pattern of running unless that Jason is a god.

Well , Juking Vanessas at Level 150 with 4 Sprays and thick skinned  and most of the time is a true nightmare and costs a ton of time to be catched and she will most likely tank all throwing knives. Nerfing it so , that only the first spray gives 2 uses will probably result in the same but now she got 3 sprays...........yeah , that won't help much. She is literally uncatchable without +Shift or +Throwing knives and a lot of hoarded throwing knives.

And then again , this perk gets affected by it's rarity to nearly no extend and fulfills it's purpose at poor rarity as good as epic. You can use it with any rarity and it will still be the best perk.......Or one of the best if you can't think of it otherwise.

If it would use up two perk slots , it would help a lot but still , medic + thick skinned is still there , you just have to give up the repair perk (As if those jukers goal is to repair things) or Swift attacker (which is mainly used to troll and smack Jason) or Marathon.

But since you guys think , nerfing it would solve all problems , I am going to add it as an option. *sigh* 

And remember , perks weren't meant to give a huge improvement to survive , just a bit easier like my Dads a cop or starting with a map.

Thanks for voting!

Edited June 2, 2018 by The Wolf with that Toast
Added reasons and a new option.

[dandop1984 528]

I voted “no” but feel it needs a nerf.

The perk is a bit ridiculous when someone can carry three sprays and get six uses. My thought on a nerf would be the player only gets two uses on their first medspray that they pickup, so if they pick up a 2nd spray it will only give you one use, but they would still get the extra healing benefit.

[NScarlato 504]

Voted no.  One of the perks worth slotting amongst a sea of pointless perks.

I use it on a couple counselors but even with an epic 9% Healing 0% negatives I don't have room for it on most builds.

Balanced by it doing nothing against grab-kills or games where you don't end up using health sprays.

[Trident77 359]

Just now, NScarlato said:

Voted no.  One of the perks worth slotting amongst a sea of pointless perks.

It's perhaps for this very reason I voted yes. According to the devs, the perks were never intended to be incredibly strong, and I'm going to guess they were supposed to be situationally useful as well under that same umbrella. Instead, Medic is so powerful that virutally every counselor is gimped if they don't have it. Effectively having a fourth item slot is too useful for anyone to pass up, and it makes broken windows a non-issue if you have just one spray. Get rid of Medic, make it so that Hypochondriac only gives increased healing with a spray (and not a free spray to go with it), and we'll see Jason being more difficult to kite than current times.

At the very least Thick Skinned, the other major offender, has a crippling negative to go with it (increased stumble chance). Medic's is trivial, especially considering the double heal purpose can easily overcome it.

[NScarlato 504]

4 minutes ago, Trident77 said:

It's perhaps for this very reason I voted yes. According to the devs, the perks were never intended to be incredibly strong, and I'm going to guess they were supposed to be situationally useful as well under that same umbrella. Instead, Medic is so powerful that virutally every counselor is gimped if they don't have it. Effectively having a fourth item slot is too useful for anyone to pass up, and it makes broken windows a non-issue if you have just one spray. Get rid of Medic, make it so that Hypochondriac only gives increased healing with a spray (and not a free spray to go with it), and we'll see Jason being more difficult to kite than current times.

At the very least Thick Skinned, the other major offender, has a crippling negative to go with it (increased stumble chance). Medic's is trivial, especially considering the double heal purpose can easily overcome it.

I still disagree.

Medic & Thick Skin is a strong combo completely countered by someone good at shift-grabbing.  If someone is bad at melee combat it doesn't help at all.  The spray animation takes too long and you can be slashed to death.

Sucker Punch / Swift Attack on a skilled counselor is far worse as Jason.  Can't usually get a melee attack off or a grab. 

Restful / Stamina Boost during a "Let's all play Vanessa" round is also bullshit.

[dandop1984 528]

2 minutes ago, Trident77 said:

It's perhaps for this very reason I voted yes. According to the devs, the perks were never intended to be incredibly strong, and I'm going to guess they were supposed to be situationally useful as well under that same umbrella. Instead, Medic is so powerful that virutally every counselor is gimped if they don't have it. Effectively having a fourth item slot is too useful for anyone to pass up, and it makes broken windows a non-issue if you have just one spray. Get rid of Medic, make it so that Hypochondriac only gives increased healing with a spray (and not a free spray to go with it), and we'll see Jason being more difficult to kite than current times.

At the very least Thick Skinned, the other major offender, has a crippling negative to go with it (increased stumble chance). Medic's is trivial, especially considering the double heal purpose can easily overcome it.

Agreed. Part of my MO is to tank Jason’s traps at a car or phone as early as possible, before he has shift. Starting with 2 sprays because of the hypochondriac perk is OP. 

Medic is also a nightmare for Jason when dealing with a window juking Vanessa who has both medic and thick skin. No amount of throwing knives or window damage will  slow her down.

[NScarlato 504]

1 minute ago, dandop1984 said:

Agreed. Part of my MO is to tank Jason’s traps at a car or phone as early as possible, before he has shift. Starting with 2 sprays because of the hypochondriac perk is OP. 

Medic is also a nightmare for Jason when dealing with a window juking Vanessa who has both medic and thick skin. No amount of throwing knives or window damage will  slow her down.

Though Vanessa's don't need windows at all.  They can use cars and tables.

[Trident77 359]

Just now, NScarlato said:

I still disagree.

Medic & Thick Skin is a strong combo completely countered by someone good at shift-grabbing.

Sucker Punch / Swift Attack on a skilled counselor is far worse as Jason.  Can't usually get a melee attack off or a grab. 

Restful / Stamina Boost during a "Let's all play Vanessa" is also bullshit.

With Medic, you can easily kite Jason using windows, which is exactly what people with the perk do to make things frustrating for Jason. This game is supposed to be horror survival, yet the survival part is pretty easy to do with the right building as well as this perk, plus a handful of sprays to boot (which you can get one guaranteed when using Hypochondriac). Then there's the part where 3 trap Jasons are in even deeper water because now it's easy to tank the traps.

There are many perks I would love to see reworked, or outright removed, all so that the perks can become situationally useful like the devs said they would be.

1 minute ago, NScarlato said:

Though Vanessa's don't need windows at all.  They can use cars and tables.

That still doesn't dismiss what counselors can accomplish with Medic. On that note, you can use throwing knives, and there again is the problem: Medic can shrug them off pretty easily.

[NScarlato 504]

2 minutes ago, Trident77 said:

With Medic, you can easily kite Jason using windows, which is exactly what people with the perk do to make things frustrating for Jason. This game is supposed to be horror survival, yet the survival part is pretty easy to do with the right building as well as this perk, plus a handful of sprays to boot (which you can get one guaranteed when using Hypochondriac). Then there's the part where 3 trap Jasons are in even deeper water because now it's easy to tank the traps.

There are many perks I would love to see reworked, or outright removed, all so that the perks can become situationally useful like the devs said they would be.

That still doesn't dismiss what counselors can accomplish with Medic. On that note, you can use throwing knives, and there again is the problem: Medic can shrug them off pretty easily.

Knives aren't the solution to that.  Good luck hitting someone with a knife who is zig-zagging or crouching behind a table / car.  You'd have to leave and get more.  

Knives are more the solution to window-jukers since they either get hit as they slowly climb out, and then have to climb again, or when they stand up after diving.

[Trident77 359]

Just now, NScarlato said:

Knives aren't the solution to that.  Good luck hitting someone with a knife who is zig-zagging or crouching behind a table / car.  You'd have to leave and get more.  

Knives are more the solution to window-jukers since they either get hit as they slowly climb out, and then have to climb again, or when they stand up after diving.

The solution would be to give Jason a new way to break through objects like tables, but it wouldn't work with cars since destroying them would effectively break the game in terms of counselors being able to escape. So you're in fact dead wrong: knives are currently the exact way to deal with people who kite you around around objectives. You simply have to git gud, and collect a few knives.

And here's the problem: even if you were a world class knife thrower, you still have to deal with Medic. Medic makes it easy to juke Jason through windows, even if he chucks a knife at you. Medic makes it easy to disarm traps, one of the big reasons why three traps Jasons have it rough. Medic gives you a free fourth item slow, helping you free up space for the car keys as well as pocket knife while floating around with just one spray instead of two. Medic solves a lot of problems.

Conclusion: Medic is overpowered. If the devs created the system so that all the perks were designed to be strong, then that wouldn't be a problem (albeit I'm assuming Jason would get buffs for the sake of fairness). But Medic is currently too good to not use, and that breaks the philosophy of what the devs promised with perks: they wouldn't be strong. They would be situationally useful so that counselors would have to rely on their own skill as well as make use of whatever they find to survive. That right there is the premise of horror survival: using what meager tools you find to survive against an overwhelmingly dangerous serial murderer. Medic spits in the face of that philosophy, and is a leading contributor to why Jason is so easy to kite in this game as well as easy to bypass his traps.

[NScarlato 504]

3 minutes ago, Trident77 said:

The solution would be to give Jason a new way to break through objects like tables, but it wouldn't work with cars since destroying them would effectively break the game in terms of counselors being able to escape. So you're in fact dead wrong: knives are currently the exact way to deal with people who kite you around around objectives. You simply have to git gud, and collect a few knives.

And here's the problem: even if you were a world class knife thrower, you still have to deal with Medic. Medic makes it easy to juke Jason through windows, even if he chucks a knife at you. Medic makes it easy to disarm traps, one of the big reasons why three traps Jasons have it rough. Medic gives you a free fourth item slow, helping you free up space for the car keys as well as pocket knife while floating around with just one spray instead of two. Medic solves a lot of problems.

Conclusion: Medic is overpowered. If the devs created the system so that all the perks were designed to be strong, then that wouldn't be a problem (albeit I'm assuming Jason would get buffs for the sake of fairness). But Medic is currently too good to not use, and that breaks the philosophy of what the devs promised with perks: they wouldn't be strong. They would be situationally useful so that counselors would have to rely on their own skill as well as make use of whatever they find to survive. That right there is the premise of horror survival: using what meager tools you find to survive against an overwhelmingly dangerous serial murderer. Medic spits in the face of that philosophy, and is a leading contributor to why Jason is so easy to kite in this game as well as easy to bypass his traps.

Sure I suppose I can "get good" when I aim a knife right on someone's head who is crouching behind furniture, and it misses them because the hit box is behind the object even though the head is not.

None of this counters Knives more useful ability to stop window juking, interrupt med sprays, etc.  

[Dead Meme 86]

48 minutes ago, The Wolf with that Toast said:

Should the Perk ,,Medic´´ get removed? Yes or no ? I voted for Yes. (There are many reasons for yes and I am being lazy to search the best) I am wondering how you guys feel about the perk , so I made a poll.

Thanks for voting!

Yes, I would like for it to be removed. And this is coming from a Buggzy Main, it’s too easy to tank traps, envade Jason's knifes etc. But a Nerf, would be much more better. 

[Trident77 359]

Just now, NScarlato said:

Sure I suppose I can "get good" when I aim a knife right on someone's head who is crouching behind furniture, and it misses them because the hit box is behind the object even though the head is not.

So, you're going to just ignore everything else I said? I gave clear reasons why Medic is powerful, and your excuse is not being good at throwing knives?

You know what, this is a waste of time. You apparently want this game to be an easy mode for counselors where Jason is easy to kite, and getting knived; juking windows repeatedly; and disarming traps has very little consequences. That kind of mentality to not empower Jason in his very own horror survival game (where he's supposed to be the star) is exactly what led to problems like the increased pocket knives/shotguns from a while back. Jason is supposed to be threatening, you yet want counselors to have access to a perk that makes juking him as well as eating his throwing knives trivial.

I'm a counselor main, yet I respect the idea that Jason should be threatening. Getting rid of one of the biggest reasons why Jason is easy to kite would be a great start.

[NScarlato 504]

7 minutes ago, Trident77 said:

So, you're going to just ignore everything else I said? I gave clear reasons why Medic is powerful, and your excuse is not being good at throwing knives?

You know what, this is a waste of time. You apparently want this game to be an easy mode for counselors where Jason is easy to kite, and getting knived; juking windows repeatedly; and disarming traps has very little consequences. That kind of mentality to not empower Jason in his very own horror survival game (where he's supposed to be the star) is exactly what led to problems like the increased pocket knives/shotguns from a while back. Jason is supposed to be threatening, you yet want counselors to have access to a perk that makes juking him as well as eating his throwing knives trivial.

I'm a counselor main, yet I respect the idea that Jason should be threatening. Getting rid of one of the biggest reasons why Jason is easy to kite would be a great start.

Sorry was I supposed to respond to the theatrics and long rehash about how you find Medic to be OP?

My point is Medic does nothing against grabs, and you can interrupt their med spray or climbing out a window and grab them with knives.  I've described situations where hitting people with knives is easy - when they are standing still due to using a window (on either side) or stopping to try to med spray.  You think people need to get good in situations that are nearly impossible to hit people - does the game even let you hit a counselor who is crouching behind an object?  Even with the aim-trigger directly on their exposed head, the knife whiffs.

[GeneiJin 564]

I vote no.  Even though I've been moving away from it in favour of other perks, and I do think it's the best perk in the game, I feel removing at this point would be unfair to players that have grinded to get a epic one only to have it now removed.  Perhaps a reduce healing per use when equip might make it more balanced.

[Truth 1,865]

I still haven't rolled better than a common medic, so I still haven't ever used that perk...

[AdrianBlackbear 173]

Absolutely not. No use for med sprays when you can grab kill someone and make the perk instantaneously useless. 

[lHeartBreakerl 2,759]

I have mixed feelings about this. It needs to be reworked though.

[BeautyNumber2 694]

It’s objectively THE perk, as someone said, in a sea of useless perks that are utter junk. If you’re not running Medic and Thick Skin I don’t know what to tell you. I won’t hear it when people are limping after two throwing knives or you are murdered and cry SLASHER!!!1 because they didn’t want to run these perks sns

[NScarlato 504]

4 minutes ago, BeautyNumber2 said:

It’s objectively THE perk, as someone said, in a sea of useless perks that are utter junk. If you’re not running Medic and Thick Skin I don’t know what to tell you. I won’t hear it when people are limping after two throwing knives or you are murdered and cry SLASHER!!!1 because they didn’t want to run these perks sns

I agree it's a great perk but even with a very good one (Epic 9% no negatives) I rarely equip it.  

There are many situations where having the perk is pointless.  Either I'm playing stealth and not seen the entire match, and don't take damage, or I get grab-killed where it doesn't help me.  Sometimes spraying has gotten me killed because I'm frozen in place and I get shift-grabbed.  Most games I don't use more than 1 spray use.

Right now I use it on people I intend to play as a fighter / trap tanker.  I don't equip it at all on anyone else or with any other playstyle.

Sometimes Medic meant that I survived when I wouldn't have elsewise, but that can be said about many perks.

I think many people are successful without using it.

[John Wick 376]

Any perk that helps counselors tank traps need to be removed as tanking traps shouldn’t be an available strategy. I also think the spray animation should be increased to the way it was originally. 

[malloymk 688]

Vanessa main. Eater of all traps. 

It would probably be good to remove both medic and hypochondriac from that game.

But as long as they're there I'll probably continue to use them.

[NScarlato 504]

Just now, John Wick said:

Any perk that helps counselors tank traps need to be removed as tanking traps shouldn’t be an available strategy. I also think the spray animation should be increased to the way it was originally. 

Sprays are plentiful with or without the perk.  You can tank them anyway.

[John Wick 376]

Just now, NScarlato said:

Sprays are plentiful with or without the perk.  You can tank them anyway.

My point exactly. If you can tank the traps without medic, it doesn’t need to be there. 

[Whammigobambam 53]

1 hour ago, Trident77 said:

Conclusion: Medic is overpowered. If the devs created the system so that all the perks were designed to be strong, then that wouldn't be a problem (albeit I'm assuming Jason would get buffs for the sake of fairness). But Medic is currently too good to not use, and that breaks the philosophy of what the devs promised with perks: they wouldn't be strong. They would be situationally useful so that counselors would have to rely on their own skill as well as make use of whatever they find to survive. That right there is the premise of horror survival: using what meager tools you find to survive against an overwhelmingly dangerous serial murderer. Medic spits in the face of that philosophy, and is a leading contributor to why Jason is so easy to kite in this game as well as easy to bypass his traps.

Preach!