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Will Pamela Be a Playable Character? Ever?

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I've seen this question posted many times. Hell, we've talked about it a million times here in the office. So I thought it would make sense to provide a breakdown on how big of an undertaking it would be to add Pamela as a playable killer in F13. 

 

First, let's talk broad assumptions about Pamela as a killer. In the films, we didn't see Pamela actually kill. "We" (the audience) saw these kills from a first-person perspective, and only the victim knew it was Pamela just before they died. It wasn't until the last reel of the film that we discovered she was the killer. But think about how she killed. She was very stealthy and her kills, for the most part, were very up-close and personal. There's almost a Michael Myers approach to her killing style. Jason on the other hand is a brute killer. In the later films, he didn't care to be seen. In fact he would jump through windows and break down doors to enter a building. Very impactful, jump scare-y and athletic at times. Jason 2, 3 and 4 all ran as you're aware. He was more human. There was a stumbling/bumbling aspect to these Jasons. However, Jason 6-9 were more stoic, undead, slow and menacing. 

 

With that said, let's talk mechanics and level layouts. We built all the maps with pacing in mind. Think about a rubber band in your mind. Put the rubber band on your right-hand pointer finger, now stretch it over to your left-hand pointer finger. Now stretch it out as far as you can, then relax it back, bringing your fingers close together. Separate your fingers, bring them back close, back and forth. That's the mindset for pacing in our game. You are one finger, Jason is the other. The mechanics we create in the game become the rubber band. How fast can the counselor run? How fast can Jason run? How fast is Jason's cooldown for his abilities? What is the distance from one building to the next? All of these are considered in the mechanics of the game. Some games create tension by limiting resources (food, water, bullets) but we do it through how we built the entire game. The level layout, the characters, their abilities, etc. It all comes back to the rubber band. 

 

Now that you're thinking how we think, are you starting to see how difficult it would be to add Pamela as a playable character? When the level is created to make Jason's abilities shine and heighten tension as a counselor...how do you create a killer with NEW abilities? And Pamela's abilities would need to be grounded in "real life". She's a real person after all. Unhinged, but real. Nonetheless, I hope you're starting to see how much work it would be to add her. We would need a new abilities system just for her. We would need a new map, just for her. We would need to balance her abilities against the counselors abilities to make sure no one gets too much of an upper-hand. It makes my head spin to think about it.

 

We're not against it. We think it would be pretty cool. But it's something that would take a lot of time and money to do right. I think we could spend that doing other, more manageable DLC in the future. Manhattan/Boat, Space/Grendal, etc, etc.  I hope this helps answer this question. :)

 

-W

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So is this a "she's off the table." or is it an "it's possible, bit not necessarily in the foreseeable future." Kinda thing?

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So is this a "she's off the table." or is it an "it's possible, bit not necessarily in the foreseeable future." Kinda thing?

Not off the table. Just...a lot of work. And yeah, it would be down the road a bit. 

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Wow, great to see Wes posting. And great to hear more about how the game is designed on a cerebral level. Thanks!!!

 

For what it's worth, I'm not even a little bothered by this. This game has been touted from day 1 as being about Jason vs. counselors. I'm fine with Pamela being excluded. I'm betting most people are.

 

Wes.... thanks for your recent posts. This is stuff that I love to see and hearing from you guys makes the wait a bit more bearable.

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I have a suggestion, and it may be a stupid one. Its a little bit like a skin with "tweaks". Now...Jason can be seen teleporting like nightcrawler. Im not sure how the aesthetics have been changed or how Jason appearing looks to the counselor. It looks like Jason appears out of the darkeness or from behind things. One thing that could be done, to highlight how stealthy Pamela could be, is that at certain distances, Pamela would be invisible to the counselors. She could have a run option with stamina cooldowns to get within the vicinity or counselors. Only then once close would she get the option to short distance proximity teleport, and then from behind things and out of the dark. She would become visible then to players once in range. With that tweak, it kindve would keep the core mechanic of Jason but have the essence and distinctive change in play for Pamela. Thoughts or improvements?

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I have a suggestion, and it may be a stupid one. Its a little bit like a skin with "tweaks". Now...Jason can be seen teleporting like nightcrawler. Im not sure how the aesthetics have been changed or how Jason appearing looks to the counselor. It looks like Jason appears out of the darkeness or from behind things. One thing that could be done, to highlight how stealthy Pamela could be, is that at certain distances, Pamela would be invisible to the counselors. She could have a run option with stamina cooldowns to get within the vicinity or counselors. Only then once close would she get the option to short distance proximity teleport, and then from behind things and out of the dark. She would become visible then to players once in range. With that tweak, it kindve would keep the core mechanic of Jason but have the essence and distinctive change in play for Pamela. Thoughts or improvements?

 

First, that's not stupid. You're here, hanging out with other F13 fans. So any idea/suggestion would never be received as "stupid". :) Yes we thought about this exact mechanic when we were early prototyping Jason. But it's not just the abilities of Jason, it's also his kills. We would have to rebuild environmental kills. We would have design new kills and then do another motion capture shoot with a female actress. All those cool Kane kills wouldn't work for Pamela. 

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I honestly wouldn't mind having Pamela use the same kills as Jason. As I recall, in Part 1, she throws someone through a window? She was freakishly strong for a middle aged woman, and the suspension of disbelief would go double in a video game.

 

I am a HUGE Pamela fan, however I really appreciated your post and the explanations on how hard it would be to implement her. 

 

I would be absolutely stoked should she make it in the game, but wether or not she does, you're making the best game ever and I think I speak for everyone when I say that we trust your decisions, you're obviously all great developpers + fans.

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Ahhh gotcha. But... Could be easier and less physical to mocap (more money I know) but it would give you a chance to use some unused kills or let Tom Savini come up with more creative intimate close kills for her :) thanks so much for the reply Wes!

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I wouldn't mind not seeing her in the game. Just the rigging/motion capture alone would be so expensive. I'm excited to see how the pacing is working out as-is. Cool of you guys to be so informative as to why things won't necessarily work.

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Not off the table. Just...a lot of work. And yeah, it would be down the road a bit.

That's cool. It sounds like it could be interesting if you guys can pull it off at some point. Also thanks for the info. You guys are doing an awesome job.
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Hey Wes, thanks for the info.  Bummer to hear that, but I kind of figured it would be a lot of work. 

 

I would love to see it happen, though.  It would be cool to see how different she would play compared to Jason.  Something like this would have to be part of a major update or expansion, though.  This way you guys can sell it for some decent moolah, lol. 

 

I would say a F13 part 1 pack with Pamela (killer), Alice (counselor), Crazy Ralph (for the hell of it) and a new map, but I am assuming the Crystal Lake map is already inspired by part 1, right?

 

But yeah, sounds like a lot of work, though the mo-cap sessions seem like a lot of fun, heh.  Anyway, thanks for the feedback.  It's cool to see the devs of a game interact with the community.  Take care.

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I never really liked the first movie having her as killer so dont care if she is in game or not. F13 is all about Jason to me

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"So you're telling me there's a chance. Yeah!" ;)

 

 

I really don't think it is necessary to have her. The other maps down the road would really keep the game fresh!

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I would rather see a part 4 skin for the pt 3 character since their the same just bloodier. Also would rather see another map for jason or a few more over pam any day. I just feel by reading all the reviews,threads, and post that people would rather see those things or things like that over pamela

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I've seen this question posted many times. Hell, we've talked about it a million times here in the office. So I thought it would make sense to provide a breakdown on how big of an undertaking it would be to add Pamela as a playable killer in F13. 

 

First, let's talk broad assumptions about Pamela as a killer. In the films, we didn't see Pamela actually kill. "We" (the audience) saw these kills from a first-person perspective, and only the victim knew it was Pamela just before they died. It wasn't until the last reel of the film that we discovered she was the killer. But think about how she killed. She was very stealthy and her kills, for the most part, were very up-close and personal. There's almost a Michael Myers approach to her killing style. Jason on the other hand is a brute killer. In the later films, he didn't care to be seen. In fact he would jump through windows and break down doors to enter a building. Very impactful, jump scare-y and athletic at times. Jason 2, 3 and 4 all ran as you're aware. He was more human. There was a stumbling/bumbling aspect to these Jasons. However, Jason 6-9 were more stoic, undead, slow and menacing. 

 

With that said, let's talk mechanics and level layouts. We built all the maps with pacing in mind. Think about a rubber band in your mind. Put the rubber band on your right-hand pointer finger, now stretch it over to your left-hand pointer finger. Now stretch it out as far as you can, then relax it back, bringing your fingers close together. Separate your fingers, bring them back close, back and forth. That's the mindset for pacing in our game. You are one finger, Jason is the other. The mechanics we create in the game become the rubber band. How fast can the counselor run? How fast can Jason run? How fast is Jason's cooldown for his abilities? What is the distance from one building to the next? All of these are considered in the mechanics of the game. Some games create tension by limiting resources (food, water, bullets) but we do it through how we built the entire game. The level layout, the characters, their abilities, etc. It all comes back to the rubber band. 

 

Now that you're thinking how we think, are you starting to see how difficult it would be to add Pamela as a playable character? When the level is created to make Jason's abilities shine and heighten tension as a counselor...how do you create a killer with NEW abilities? And Pamela's abilities would need to be grounded in "real life". She's a real person after all. Unhinged, but real. Nonetheless, I hope you're starting to see how much work it would be to add her. We would need a new abilities system just for her. We would need a new map, just for her. We would need to balance her abilities against the counselors abilities to make sure no one gets too much of an upper-hand. It makes my head spin to think about it.

 

We're not against it. We think it would be pretty cool. But it's something that would take a lot of time and money to do right. I think we could spend that doing other, more manageable DLC in the future. Manhattan/Boat, Space/Grendal, etc, etc.  I hope this helps answer this question. :)

 

-W

 

Why not just make Pamela's mode first person, so all you see are her hands and arms? That would seem to fix a lot of the issues you are talking about and actually make her character faithful to the film. That way you bypass a lot of the headaches and are still able to give us Pamela. 

 

Though I'm really hoping for Uber Jason (who's stats would be maxed out in every single category - a walking tank, far beyond any of the other Jasons)

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Why not just make Pamela's mode first person, so all you see are her hands and arms? That would seem to fix a lot of the issues you are talking about and actually make her character faithful to the film. That way you bypass a lot of the headaches and are still able to give us Pamela. 

 

Though I'm really hoping for Uber Jason (who's stats would be maxed out in every single category - a walking tank, far beyond any of the other Jasons)

 

That would probably only work for a single player mode since in a MP match the counselor players would be able to see her in third person which would require all the new mo-cap animations.  Still would love to see it happen, though.  Then again, seeing the reactions in this thread, there doesn't seem to be a lot of love for Mrs. Voorhees, lol. 

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Honestly, this doesn't come close to bugging me. I love Pamela, she's one of the all time greatest slasher villains, but I have no desire to play her. And for that matter, I have no desire to play against her. Why would I want to take on seven people as a middle aged woman? Why would I want to take on a middle aged woman as part of a group of seven people? One doesn't fun or empowering, and the other doesn't sound fun or scary. What's the point? Personally, I think having her as a voice in Jason's head was not only a fantastic way to put her in the game, but also all that should be done with her.

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Honestly, this doesn't come close to bugging me. I love Pamela, she's one of the all time greatest slasher villains, but I have no desire to play her. And for that matter, I have no desire to play against her. Why would I want to take on seven people as a middle aged woman? Why would I want to take on a middle aged woman as part of a group of seven people? One doesn't fun or empowering, and the other doesn't sound fun or scary. What's the point? Personally, I think having her as a voice in Jason's head was not only a fantastic way to put her in the game, but also all that should be done with her.

If you do it right, a master of horror can make a middle aged woman the scariest thing you meet.

 

Take a look at Hello Neighbor. The guy has the silliest mustache ever and I've never actually seen game play but people say it's scary. The character has little to do with it. It's their persona. I would love to see Pamela pop out of a closet and rush at me with a knife.

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That would probably only work for a single player mode since in a MP match the counselor players would be able to see her in third person which would require all the new mo-cap animations.  Still would love to see it happen, though.  Then again, seeing the reactions in this thread, there doesn't seem to be a lot of love for Mrs. Voorhees, lol. 

 

That's true, I didn't think about that. But yeah, that would work perfectly for Single Player. They should include a first person single player (Pamela only) where we can play as her. I don't care if they don't have Part 1 maps. Just put her in the Single Player as a first person character and use Parts 2-9 maps.

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In its own way, it's as complicated as doing...I don't know, Freddy in this game. Not something you can simply just drop in as a skin, but at a mechanical and fundamental level a very different process and experience that chances everything up.

 

Having her voice and the tapes and other references are all really cool, she's of course a big influence on Jason and the series. It's right she be represented. It would be cool if she even got a character model for some cut scenes or something.

 

But I don't really feel the drive to actually play and kill as her, at least certainly not over the various forms of Jason. He's my...priority killer, I guess.

 

Better to do all that and do it right, and then see what the future holds for Pamela.

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