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My only problem with new animation is that if you are in house  many times this new animation goes even through furniture or walls so it looks really bad. For me it would be great if Jason use new animation when you sprint (holding shift on PC) and old animation when you only walk.  So you can at least choose which do you want to use.

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19 hours ago, FART_SMUCKER said:

Well, as far as the chart goes showing weapon stats not a lot has changed, if in game you get more or less hits drastically different from the stats being shown i would luck and rng is playing a roll in that. OR they did change them more than they're showing us behind the scenes.

RNG has nothing to do with how long a weapon lasts if that's what you're saying. How many hits you get is determined by luck, but despite that, it's not actually determined by "luck". The more luck you have, the more hits you get but it's all fixed. However many hits a character gets with one weapon, that's how many hits they will ALWAYS get. It doesn't change.

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9 minutes ago, BeepBeepRichie said:

RNG has nothing to do with how long a weapon lasts if that's what you're saying. How many hits you get is determined by luck, but despite that, it's not actually determined by "luck". The more luck you have, the more hits you get but it's all fixed. However many hits a character gets with one weapon, that's how many hits they will ALWAYS get. It doesn't change.

Description[edit | edit source]

This stat is one of the more mysterious ones in the game, mainly due to the fact it has many rumors surrounding varying benefits it may, or may not, give a counselor. While the stat gives the impression of many RNG related benefits

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1 hour ago, FART_SMUCKER said:

Description[edit | edit source]

This stat is one of the more mysterious ones in the game, mainly due to the fact it has many rumors surrounding varying benefits it may, or may not, give a counselor. While the stat gives the impression of many RNG related benefits

 

That doesn't disprove anything I just said. In fact, you can go test it yourself. I've been playing this game for a looong time, I would know. Those "RNG" benefits are those such as taking less damage when going through windows, more stamina.

Here's another quote from the exact same wikia page you quoted,

  • "Despite its name, the luck stat has a fixed ratio on how many times a counselor can use a particular weapon before it breaks. The higher the luck, the more hits as well as blocks they can perform. For instance, if Jenny is armed with the baseball bat, she can hit Jason at least four times with it before breaking due to her high luck of eight. At the same time, she's capable of blocking seven attacks from Jason before it breaks as well."

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Who have a problem with new animation, well, go play with bots. I see a lot players with 8/8 kills.  New animation is garbage ? - I don't think so. Just some players suck :)

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3 hours ago, blablabla said:

Who have a problem with new animation, well, go play with bots. I see a lot players with 8/8 kills.  New animation is garbage ? - I don't think so. Just some players suck :)

Well I quess I suck then. Thanks for clearing that up.

I thought the animation and the "hit" when your grab connects is great. I just hate the fact that the grabcone is a bit too narrow and if you miss a grab (against good players alot) Jason stumbles and open to a free stun. But nevermind me, I apparently suck and should just play against bots...

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Here is a big problem that nobody either sees or wants to admit. If a group of 5 or more half decent players coordinated together, Jason would only has a 10% of killing everybody. I can elaborate further and will on a further date. To sum up the reason why it doesn't appear that way is because too many people play this game as a soloist rather than an actual team. They're more concerned about just themselves escaping and maybe their friend, rather than just somebody escaping in general to prevent a Jason win (No Survivor Bonus).

I strongly question the skill of people who say nonsense like "git gud" whether it's them or their opponents when the complaints about Jason are legitimate. Something suggests they either frequently play against low level people and rarely play against a real team. Wouldn't surprise me they are really counselor mains just wanting to reap the benefits and just casual players who get upset they don't escape all the time. The infrequent player count seems to support this as fewer people are willing to be cordial with each other to develop and execute effective strategies against Jason.

There is only two compliments I would give the new grab.

+ By adding the lunge, you can grab counselors who try to melee you from the front usually faster than they can hit

+ It looks cool

Now here are some complaints
- No longer can you fake-out or "spam" grab.
This is a technique that worked great for chasing the last survivors. They will always carry melees and try to hit you to regain stamina.  To make matters worse, they can instantly turn 180 by going into combat stance to hit you. By pretending to grab then turning to the side away, it allows you to dodge the counselor's attack. Attempting this strat now just opens you to attacks.

- Can no longer move the direction of the grab while grabbing.
Say you are shifting towards somebody fixing the car. You try to grab them, but you are slightly off. The counselor now has an extra second to finish the repair and escape while Jason is lunging towards the hood of the car.

- Jason has turned into something akin to a boss in Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!
Since Jason can only grab forwards, a counselor just has to predict and time the grab.. chances are Jason might just miss completely because the counselor is at a lucky angle. In turn, the counselor can get a free hit on Jason. Just now I beat up a Savini Jason for 4 minutes straight without using a pocket knife, only running to grab other melees. He actually gave up and just let me run to the cops.

- Jason can fall for traps beyond his control
Something I have been testing out is using the bear trap and fireworks when I think Jason might shift grab towards me. Say a counselor is standing in front of an open doorway. Jason from far away can attempt to shift grab, but uh-oh thanks for the lunge he steps on a bear trap and the counselor gets away with a bonus. Same deal with fireworks, just throw them behind you when you think Jason is coming.

- Jason can no longer body block
I really hope I don't need to elaborate on this one. Grab someone in a group, whack, repeat. Slash you say? Medic perk. Knives? Medic perk.

Now look at all those cons and imagine a group of 5 or more players who just want to kill Jason?  Plus isn't Jason suppose to be scary? Why does he look like he's about to trip on his own shoe laces allowing me to slam the bat across the back of his head?

That's not to say Jason is hopeless, but it makes him more frustrating to play with because Jason has so many obstacles with no way to counter them.

Jason wasn't perfect before this update, but he was sustainable. You felt you had control over him and could avoid melees and tricks with grace. If you get ganged up, you might be able to pull a fast choke kill.

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finally got to try out the update last night and my only complaint about new grab is the speed of it. i think if it was a little faster everyone would probably be ok with it. could be just me.

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I miss the old grab animation. Right now the Enya - Who Can Say, song is playing in my head. The Old Grab, will be missed....by me at least: 

 

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The grab is much to slow and only hits in a straight line, I’ll just go back to slashing until they fix this, Gunn always takes baby steps forward , then a couple of steps back, how many times have they changed the grab... should have left it where it was at launch athe very least what it was before this patch, you can literally be standing outside a window whe someone is climbing out an miss... pathetic.

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On 5/24/2018 at 7:14 PM, AdmiralJT said:

As it is now if they aren't right in front of Jason he can't grab them, if they are outside his shoulders even slightly they getaway. The slow ass recoil time is a major problem. And it looks like the delay after you drop the knife to when you can move has been increased by a little bit leaving a bigger window to get stunned.

I'm beginning to think the Devs want people slashing.

Just slash them a bunch and bait their health spray. Eventually they'll be left totally injured, even if they've got perks like Medic. At that point you can go for a grab, and their pocket knife won't get them far. If you're worried about being ambushed by multiple players, that was an issue before this grab. Just slash and combat stance for blocks until you either kill the majority or scare them off if they're low on supplies.

I personally adore the new grab. It's much more charming and fluid in terms of animation. The extended range has also helped me a TON in QP. I seriously don't get the complaints people have had. ?

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On 5/26/2018 at 9:57 AM, blablabla said:

Who have a problem with new animation, well, go play with bots. I see a lot players with 8/8 kills.  New animation is garbage ? - I don't think so. Just some players suck :)

THIS

due the crybabies now we have a worse game in general

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On 5/24/2018 at 4:48 PM, FART_SMUCKER said:

I posted the same basically on Reddit *but we all know how that goes* The locked animation is a big problem in itself as it will just cause just to be hit every time. Common example: Every time a player is jogging in front of you 'kiting' you and ready to turn and swing, with the now smaller arc of the grab too...you're going to be hit damn near every time unless you PERFECTLY nail it and not just get in the grab near them before they swing. Also, 'spamming your grab' was a way to get people to swing at you to trick them almost, but that can't happen now. It seems now you have to be straight on and actually hit them, because if you don't they'll hit you being that you're in another locked animation. When it does happen it looks amazing and I love the quick musical key *maybe more of those in the future because hearing that already a few dozen times...* What do ya guys think?

New grab is perfect! Not sure why people complain because it’s easy to use even shift grab! Love it!

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2 hours ago, PowellCampsNAKED said:

New grab is perfect! Not sure why people complain because it’s easy to use even shift grab! Love it!

I make a whole explanation with examples and you are still not sure. Okay

You sound like the guy who told me that people who solely try to kill Jason won't all be darting straight to the shack after demask.

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Seriously, learn to play. The purpose of a game is to LEARN by PLAYING and PRACTICING, not to blaming and complaining to the devs because is so "hard" to get a 8/8

just play and improve, that's all

And the same happens with for example weapon swapping, people crying because the level is to high. C'mon, we had tons of x2 even x2.3 XP weekends. Those who don't play a game have to be rewarded? NO.

Because of attitudes like that the gameplay has been getting worse with every patch

 

without acrimony 

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11 hours ago, Suffy said:

Here is a big problem that nobody either sees or wants to admit. If a group of 5 or more half decent players coordinated together, Jason would only has a 10% of killing everybody. I can elaborate further and will on a further date. To sum up the reason why it doesn't appear that way is because too many people play this game as a soloist rather than an actual team. They're more concerned about just themselves escaping and maybe their friend, rather than just somebody escaping in general to prevent a Jason win (No Survivor Bonus).

I strongly question the skill of people who say nonsense like "git gud" whether it's them or their opponents when the complaints about Jason are legitimate. Something suggests they either frequently play against low level people and rarely play against a real team. Wouldn't surprise me they are really counselor mains just wanting to reap the benefits and just casual players who get upset they don't escape all the time. The infrequent player count seems to support this as fewer people are willing to be cordial with each other to develop and execute effective strategies against Jason.

There is only two compliments I would give the new grab.

+ By adding the lunge, you can grab counselors who try to melee you from the front usually faster than they can hit

+ It looks cool

Now here are some complaints
- No longer can you fake-out or "spam" grab.
This is a technique that worked great for chasing the last survivors. They will always carry melees and try to hit you to regain stamina.  To make matters worse, they can instantly turn 180 by going into combat stance to hit you. By pretending to grab then turning to the side away, it allows you to dodge the counselor's attack. Attempting this strat now just opens you to attacks.

- Can no longer move the direction of the grab while grabbing.
Say you are shifting towards somebody fixing the car. You try to grab them, but you are slightly off. The counselor now has an extra second to finish the repair and escape while Jason is lunging towards the hood of the car.

- Jason has turned into something akin to a boss in Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!
Since Jason can only grab forwards, a counselor just has to predict and time the grab.. chances are Jason might just miss completely because the counselor is at a lucky angle. In turn, the counselor can get a free hit on Jason. Just now I beat up a Savini Jason for 4 minutes straight without using a pocket knife, only running to grab other melees. He actually gave up and just let me run to the cops.

- Jason can fall for traps beyond his control
Something I have been testing out is using the bear trap and fireworks when I think Jason might shift grab towards me. Say a counselor is standing in front of an open doorway. Jason from far away can attempt to shift grab, but uh-oh thanks for the lunge he steps on a bear trap and the counselor gets away with a bonus. Same deal with fireworks, just throw them behind you when you think Jason is coming.

- Jason can no longer body block
I really hope I don't need to elaborate on this one. Grab someone in a group, whack, repeat. Slash you say? Medic perk. Knives? Medic perk.

Now look at all those cons and imagine a group of 5 or more players who just want to kill Jason?  Plus isn't Jason suppose to be scary? Why does he look like he's about to trip on his own shoe laces allowing me to slam the bat across the back of his head?

That's not to say Jason is hopeless, but it makes him more frustrating to play with because Jason has so many obstacles with no way to counter them.

Jason wasn't perfect before this update, but he was sustainable. You felt you had control over him and could avoid melees and tricks with grace. If you get ganged up, you might be able to pull a fast choke kill.

The grab should've always been like it is now. It's an insta-kill mechanic. It should be (and finally is) high risk/high reward. Grabbing should not be something you can easily get. Even if everyone complains about it, slashing is a viable technique. Grabbing shouldn't be something you do constantly. You shouldn't be able to spam it. You shouldn't be able to miss it in order to bait counselors. The grab is now something you can't always pull off unless you're very good. I recommend slashing. Doesn't matter if you don't like it, as it now is the only low risk option in your arsenal. The grab shouldn't be buffed, because it's powerful results should not be easy to accomplish, and that is a thing I feel a lot of people don't understand.

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15 minutes ago, Gummi said:

The grab should've always been like it is now. It's an insta-kill mechanic. It should be (and finally is) high risk/high reward. Grabbing should not be something you can easily get. 

I 100% DISAGREE.

Grabbing should be fairly simple.  As this is a 1 vs 7 game with a 20 time limit.  Counselors have enough obstacles, weapons, items and HELP from other to stay alive.

If they gibble the grab..   Than that will just make it too easy to survive.  

This new grab needs a FATTER radius.  It needs to be EASY to grab.   

 

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Grab needs a little work, I think it's fine mostly. The cone could be a longer towards his body and a touch wider at the end. It is an improvement on the old grab, especially coming out of Shift.

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Their reasoning for changing it being the grab didn't look forceful enough is believable. That said, they could've just as easily kept the grab but made the counselor flail a little bit without changing the Jason side of it.

Problem solved.

It seems now that the grab is only really useful on a 30/60 degree front, rather than 180/360.

Melee (outside of combat) feels like its been improved a little bit for me. Which is why grab was/is so important because of how inferior Jason has been in melee since launch really. I guess we'll see what happens. Still needs more work, godframes, cancelling counselors being able to swing when hit by Jason as if they haven't been hit or affected whatsoever, etc.

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31 minutes ago, Gummi said:

The grab should've always been like it is now. It's an insta-kill mechanic. It should be (and finally is) high risk/high reward. Grabbing should not be something you can easily get. Even if everyone complains about it, slashing is a viable technique. Grabbing shouldn't be something you do constantly. You shouldn't be able to spam it. You shouldn't be able to miss it in order to bait counselors. The grab is now something you can't always pull off unless you're very good. I recommend slashing. Doesn't matter if you don't like it, as it now is the only low risk option in your arsenal. The grab shouldn't be buffed, because it's powerful results should not be easy to accomplish, and that is a thing I feel a lot of people don't understand.

Let me make some very clear. It IS still easy to kill noobs and the unfortunate one or two people who know what they are doing, but stuck with them. It can be EASY to get 8/8 in that scenario which can be quite common because there is now an influx of people who forgot they even own the game. My comments aren't about getting 8/8 by killing some randoms. It's about being evenly matched by legitimate full teams.

What you say sounds fine on the surface, but underestimates that potential for advanced teams to exploit it.
As I pointed out, even body blocking is gone which forces you to spam that choke kill oh people complain so much about... if you manage to pull it off.

Plus I already covered slashing. it's can be overridden by Medic perk. Same with traps. Counselors can potentially have 12-15 medsprays with that perk.

All these comments saying things like "welcome challenge" lack real substance to the problem. If you are so into welcoming challenge and difficulty, then what was wrong with the last grab? Not only could I get 8/8 multiple times, I have even escaped multiple times. 

Also just to bring the point home, that I I just didn't buy this game. Here is a screenshot of me getting max score even with the new grab
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1397382246 ico_external_link.gif

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18 minutes ago, HuDawg said:

I 100% DISAGREE.

Grabbing should be fairly simple.  As this is a 1 vs 7 game with a 20 time limit.  Counselors have enough obstacles, weapons, items and HELP from other to stay alive.

If they gibble the grab..   Than that will just make it too easy to survive.  

This new grab needs a FATTER radius.  It needs to be EASY to grab.   

 

I don't think so. No insta-kill mechanics should be easy to pull off. NONE. Because if they are, it's no fun for the one in the receiving end of it. (I'm being so hypocritical here lol)

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8 minutes ago, Suffy said:

Let me make some very clear. It IS still easy to kill noobs and the unfortunate one or two people who know what they are doing, but stuck with them. It can be EASY to get 8/8 in that scenario which can be quite common because there is now an influx of people who forgot they even own the game. My comments aren't about getting 8/8 by killing some randoms. It's about being evenly matched by legitimate full teams.

What you say sounds fine on the surface, but underestimates that potential for advanced teams to exploit it.
As I pointed out, even body blocking is gone which forces you to spam that choke kill oh people complain so much about... if you manage to pull it off.

Plus I already covered slashing. it's can be overridden by Medic perk. Same with traps. Counselors can potentially have 12-15 medsprays with that perk.

All these comments saying things like "welcome challenge" lack real substance to the problem. If you are so into welcoming challenge and difficulty, then what was wrong with the last grab? Not only could I get 8/8 multiple times, I have even escaped multiple times. 

You can easily catch the survivor in a swinging spree (especially if you're running +Weapon Damage) and kill them before they can heal. I've seen it done to both me and other counselors.

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Gun + ILL have a meeting today to discuss several items relevant to the recent update. There are some bigger issues that will take priority, but the new grab is on the docket for discussion. Personally, I think the grab animation needs to be slightly faster. Meaning we speed the frames up slightly. Not drastic, just a very subtle increase. As for increasing the cone/radius of the grab. The more we adjust this, the more you start seeing "force grab". Where counselors either snap to the grab, or Jason has odd twitchy movements within the anim capsule. Neither are ideal. But I read over every comment in this thread, and will discuss with the entire team today. Thanks, everyone for your thoughts and ideas. 

 

-W 

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3 minutes ago, Gummi said:

You can easily catch the survivor in a swinging spree (especially if you're running +Weapon Damage) and kill them before they can heal. I've seen it done to both me and other counselors.

Okay and since Jason has a delay between every strike, I can easily stun him right back and heal because I am not a noob that runs around empty handed. Sure it CAN work, but easily countered.

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