Jump to content
Laphin

Illfonic needs to focus on Jason

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, gyaaft said:

Of all the points that I made in that post, this is the best you guys can come up with? A couple scenes in Part 8 (one of the shittiest movies in the franchise) that prove Jason can shift and morph. The cutting is so bad in that film because Rob Hedden was directing his first feature film and he didn't have the foggiest clue what he was doing. If anyone here says that the dance floor scene in Part 8 is the way that they remember Jason I have to call bullshit. This is all besides the point. 

Answer the most important questions for me instead. They sold 2 million copies of the game, so why do we only have a couple thousand people playing it online? What can the developers do to grow the player base and win back the players that they lost? I'll tell you what's not going to fix it, Victoria, Reggie and Muffin. Not on their best day.

Part 8 is my favourite, no bull.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, bewareofbears said:

Part 8 is my favourite, no bull.

LOL. I won't hold it against you bro. I like Part 8 up until they are actually in Manhattan...the claustrophobic nature of Lazarus was actually quite a nice change. My favorite is still Part 6 and Part 4. I also like Part 7 despite the cheesy Carrie rip-off nature...I really wish the kills of that movie hadn't been neutered by the censors.

While discussing Morph/Shift. Jason does it quite frequently in the movies.

Part 8:  The dance floor scene. Chasing the guy up the mast scene.

Part 7:  Jason disappearing and returning quickly with the weed wacker out in the middle of the woods. He went to the tool shed and came back impossibly fast. Jason appeared on the dock after the house blew up crazy fast despite cooking away in the basement.

Part 5:  Roy beats the survivor down the hill to the area where the car is despite him walking the whole movie and they were sprinting for safety.

Obviously, these are related to telling a movie narrative that suits the story, but essentially Shift/Morph make these kinds of things possible in game with no cuts in the action by an editor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Alkavian

I have no shame about my love for Part 8. :)

It’s odd how many times it has to be explained why shift and morph are in the game. 

1 hour ago, F134Ever86 said:

Livin in the city aint no big deal.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Alkavian said:

LOL. I won't hold it against you bro. I like Part 8 up until they are actually in Manhattan...the claustrophobic nature of Lazarus was actually quite a nice change. My favorite is still Part 6 and Part 4. I also like Part 7 despite the cheesy Carrie rip-off nature...I really wish the kills of that movie hadn't been neutered by the censors.

While discussing Morph/Shift. Jason does it quite frequently in the movies.

Part 8:  The dance floor scene. Chasing the guy up the mast scene.

Part 7:  Jason disappearing and returning quickly with the weed wacker out in the middle of the woods. He went to the tool shed and came back impossibly fast. Jason appeared on the dock after the house blew up crazy fast despite cooking away in the basement.

Part 5:  Roy beats the survivor down the hill to the area where the car is despite him walking the whole movie and they were sprinting for safety.

Obviously, these are related to telling a movie narrative that suits the story, but essentially Shift/Morph make these kinds of things possible in game with no cuts in the action by an editor.

Part 4 and 6 are my favorites as well. Followed by 3 and 8. Your point in the murders misses one I recall everytime in this debate.

Part 8: Jason chasing a frantic, sprinting Charles. Jason is walking after this guy, clearly behind him, yet magically throws the guy from the second story window and appears next to him a second after the guy hits the ground, just to drown the fucker. Very clear indication of something like shit or morph at play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/12/2018 at 7:24 PM, WashingtonJones said:

To me (and to a lot of others) Jason is a fun character, not a deeply frightening one.

And that's why the playerbase came into the theater, nice and hot.. and got up mid film and walked out.  Plain and simple, not much excuse around it.
If the attraction isn't delivering, people aren't gonna come in and pay for the show.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is a recently established history of content patches that all follow the same pattern. A patch is released with new content. Some bugs are fixed, many pre-existing bugs are not fixed, and many new bugs are introduced. The same goes for exploits. We experience increased player counts for a short period of time until the new content is absorbed. After which the player counts drop back down to anemic levels.

People come back to visit, but they don't want to stay. Why not? It's obvious that people want to like your game, because they keep giving you chances. The problem is that you keep giving them 'what you want' or 'what you think they want' instead of what they need.

What do they need? They need a polished experience free of game breaking bugs. They need better support in the way of more frequent patches and updates. They need dedicated servers. They need a game that performs great on all platforms. They need a more suspenseful experience that better captures the feeling and "magic" of the films. They need an experience free of excessive cheaters, exploiters and trolls, as well as an in-game report system. They need to be matched up with other players of similar skill so they can have a consistently enjoyable experience. They need a meaningful progression system to keep them interested for the long haul. They need a more dynamic experience to prevent the game from becoming stale.

What they don't need. They don't need more bugs. They don't need more maps. They don't need more Jasons. They don't need more counselors. They don't need Reggie or Muffin. They don't need more emotes. They don't need more costumes. They don't need to be able to kit out their cars. They don't need a standalone Retro Jason. They don't need more perk tiers. They don't need a level cap increase. They don't need more small maps. They don't need more songs on the radio.

The new patch will follow this same pattern as well. This time we may enjoy a slightly extended period of higher player counts before the inevitable drop off. That's because they are finally starting to deliver some things that we need. Starting with the engine update to make dedicated servers possible. Key bindings, AI Improvements, Salt Mines, J7 rework, altered Jason Grab, and removal of door hitting will all have an immediate and lasting impact. Single Player Challenges, Weapon Swapping, Legendary Perks, Green Roy Coveralls and Victoria Sterling are all fluff content. Their value and overall impact to the game will be short-lived once the content has been experienced for a short period of time.

Don't get me wrong, this is a good start. Unfortunately, it not going to be the patch that brings us to the next level. It's not going to be the patch that rapidly grows our player base. That will forever be impossible until we start giving people more of what they need and less of what they don't need.

TL;DR - The new patch is a step in the right direction, but it's not going to take us to the next level. Give players more of what they need and less of what they don't need.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kinda off topic, but does anyone else think certain Jason animations could be shortened a little? For instance, when Jason crushes a counselors head with a door. Sometimes he walks off in a weird direction. I feel instead of walking off, the animation would end after he kills them. Also when he grabs a counselor who has a PK, the camera looks at Jason then resets in a random position slightly throwing off my orientation. Is this a design choice?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, gyaaft said:

 

I agree with you about everything except for not needing more maps. We certainly do need more maps, and we need good ones. That's why people want small versions of Jarvis House and Pinehurst. Now, these maps shouldn't be a priority, instead the priority should be everything you covered, but maps belong in a higher tier than new Jasons or counselors.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Alkavian said:

While discussing Morph/Shift. Jason does it quite frequently in the movies.

Part 8:  The dance floor scene. Chasing the guy up the mast scene.

Part 7:  Jason disappearing and returning quickly with the weed wacker out in the middle of the woods. He went to the tool shed and came back impossibly fast. Jason appeared on the dock after the house blew up crazy fast despite cooking away in the basement.

Part 5:  Roy beats the survivor down the hill to the area where the car is despite him walking the whole movie and they were sprinting for safety.

Uh....how could you forget the scene that is your signature. 

1 hour ago, Laphin said:

And that's why the playerbase came into the theater, nice and hot.. and got up mid film and walked out.  Plain and simple, not much excuse around it.
If the attraction isn't delivering, people aren't gonna come in and pay for the show.

I don't disagree that the game needs to change on a fundamental level, more so than fixing bugs and dedicated servers, to bring the playerbase up. There's too many enormously popular games that suffer from similar technical problems to use that as an excuse. I just don't agree how you want it to be. 

On 5/12/2018 at 7:57 AM, Laphin said:

SHIFT is necessary.  Shift GRAB to kill.. that's not necessary toward getting closer to that "Jason Voorhees" experience. 

I think it fits perfectly in the Jason Voorhees experience. He always, unrealistically, pops up in the person's face for the kill out of nowhere in the movies. Morph doesn't capture that and Stalk is just stalking. Shift grabbing is only way you can provide that very Jason specific experience. Removing that is one step closer to a no-frills killer. 
In terms of game play, counselors already have the advantage in avoiding a shift-grab, as long as they don't do stupid things like standing around outside or running in a straight line. The act of simply paying attention seems to be lost on a lot of people. I play with the people that complain about this shit (shift grabs and whatnot) and it's always because they were doing something dumb.  

On 5/12/2018 at 7:57 AM, Laphin said:

DIRECT CHASES.  Let's be honest... they feel like crap.  It astounds me how Illfonic hasn't added a "SPEED-UP" timer onto Jason so that when he's dedicated into a chase, he gets faster and faster over 10 second increments so that when you chase someone it doesn't look absolutely ridiculous.  Jason chasing someone down an open road and can't catch up??  Chasing someone around a table and it looks absolutely ridiculous and doesn't FEEL like a chase??  "Hey every 10 seconds, we'll speed Jason up a bit if he's in a chase with someone for so much time" and they need to TEST this multiple times until they feel a point in which chases feel more authentic and less, stupid.

Again, no-frills killer. Jason doesn't speed up. That's his thing. No matter how intense a situation got he always Jason-walked over to it (movies 2, 3 and 4 don't count in this).
But what they could do is do the opposite. Incrementally slow the counselors down. That makes more sense anyway. 

 

I think how the game works now is mostly fine and all it needs is tweaks. I wouldn't mind if it was shifted more towards a slower stalk and stealth vibe a little, but not in such a drastic way.

What I think would help players out tremendously, and make them wanna stay longer, is an official tutorial mode or at least a series of official tutorial videos with the link in the game. I think the mystery of how to play was cool for the first batch of people. It's not only unnecessary now, it's become a determent.     

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, MichaelMemers said:

I agree with you about everything except for not needing more maps. We certainly do need more maps, and we need good ones. That's why people want small versions of Jarvis House and Pinehurst. Now, these maps shouldn't be a priority, instead the priority should be everything you covered, but maps belong in a higher tier than new Jasons or counselors.

I agree. Let's get a bunch of the 'needs' checked off first, then add Camp Forest Green.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, WashingtonJones said:

Uh....how could you forget the scene that is your signature.

LOL. Touche.

 

14 hours ago, MichaelMemers said:

I agree with you about everything except for not needing more maps. We certainly do need more maps, and we need good ones. That's why people want small versions of Jarvis House and Pinehurst. Now, these maps shouldn't be a priority, instead the priority should be everything you covered, but maps belong in a higher tier than new Jasons or counselors.

I'm all for new maps. But, I don't want anymore small or huge maps. Give us maps about the size of the original Higgins map...and make them in new localities. Abandoned Camp, Forrest Green, Manhattan, etc. 

The only other map that I really see as a small map would be Lazarus.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Alkavian said:

I'm all for new maps. But, I don't want anymore small or huge maps. Give us maps about the size of the original Higgins map...and make them in new localities. Abandoned Camp, Forrest Green, Manhattan, etc. 

The only other map that I really see as a small map would be Lazarus.

 Lazarus would be amazing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/13/2018 at 8:20 AM, FilthyCasual523 said:

I think we're too hard on the guy who's just trying to get the game to be what IllFonic promised us rather than what H2O Delirious got us.

I'm not bothering to argue with the op or anyone else. I think the game we got is great. It would take a sequel to fix most of this stuff anyway. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/13/2018 at 3:16 PM, gyaaft said:

Jason is a stalk killer in the films. He doesn't shift in the films. Counselors don't sprint in random directions to avoid his shift in the films. Counselors don't jog just outside of his reach during chases in the films. The current implementation may work for a video game, but there's something about it that makes Jason feel weak. If you are honest and evaluate chases as they are currently implemented, they are rather comical. It's not about buffing Jason. It's about changing the mechanics to make the chases feel more natural and intense.

Having Jason get faster was just a suggestion. Is that preferable to watching a counselor kite Jason around a dinning room table for 3 minutes? It's easy to criticize the suggestions of others, it's much harder to come up viable solutions on your own. Close to 2 million people own this game and only a couple thousand people play it online. Shame on us for trying to understand why.

You realize Jason has shown the shift and morph powers in Part 7 and Part 8 right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Jason Todd Voorhees said:

When he was chained up scene?

When he kills stone cold steve austin and just about every other kill.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone goes back and forth about what balance is or isn't supposed to be. Well the proof is in the pudding as they say.

 

Right now, we have a game that's gameplay and choices being made do NOT match the tone or dialogue of the game whatsoever. For instance, when you first spawn into the game your character will say "I need to get out of here.", "I've got to find the others." or simply "I need to escape." This puts emphasis on HOW the game is supposed to play out, which is what we had at the beginning, but no longer have at all.

People wanted so-called "balance" ...when it was always there to begin with. People who claim that the game is "unfair" to counselors are only looking for a 1 v 1 scenario in which they can "win" at the game and that is something that should NEVER even come close to happening, but yet it has.

Balance in a 1 vs 7 game comes in the form of the fact that you have SEVEN of you. There is 1 Jason. Look no further to the movies for your proof on how this game is SUPPOSED to work.

(Excluding the original in which Jason was NOT the killer, here is how we break down the rest of the movies.)

Part 2: Ginny and Paul endure the final fight scene with Jason. While Paul's fate is left undetermined, Ginny survives.

Part 3: Chris and Rick are the final two until Rick separates from Chris and is crushed. Chris Higgins is then hunted down mercilessly by Jason until Ali, wounded and all makes one last attempt at Jason before ultimately being dispatched. This provides the distraction for Chris to strike.

Part 4: Tommy and Trish Jarvis along with Rob Dyer group up. Rob separates from the siblings and is dispatched. Tommy and Trish are confronted by Jason in the final battel.

Part 5: Pam, Reggie and Tommy work together in the final showdown against Roy Burns.

Part 6: Megan and Tommy in the final confrontation with Jason.

Part 7: Nick and Tina are the last two alive in the closing moments of confrontation. Despite Tina being discount Carrie and her dead father ending thing, it is still Nick and Tina sticking together against Jason in the final chase.

Part 8: Rennie and Sean are tasked with surviving Jason in the final confrontation of the movie.

Even Part 9 which I hate: Jessica and Steven hold the last standing battle against Jason. Creighton Duke provides a distraction and is ultimately killed.

Jason X: The remaining survivors of the grendel group up and stick together to survive Jason's final onslaught.

 

You see the theme here? Every person who survives in a Friday the 13th movie does so because they are TOGETHER in the final moments of the movie. They work as a team and even then, it sometimes ends up that only one of them makes it as the other has to sacrifice themselves to get the job done. You want "balance" in this game? Learn the definition of TEAM. You should have ZERO chance against Jason 1 v 1. With the material provided above, I rest my case.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Jason Todd Voorhees said:

You realize Jason has shown the shift and morph powers in Part 7 and Part 8 right?

You people come in here and try to derail this thread because you have nothing of value to offer in regards to the OP. The title of the thread is 'Illfonic needs to focus on Jason.' I'd love for some of you 'shift enthusiasts' to contribute something other than "In Part 8 Jason appears to teleport." You are completely missing the point of this whole thread.

If I could go back, I would change what I originally said to the following:

Instead of saying "Jason is a stalk killer in the films." I would say "MOST of the people that Jason kills in the films don't see him coming until it's too late."
Instead of saying "He doesn't shift in the films." I would say "MOST of Jason's kills in the films are not the result of a shift ability."

Right now in the game, a large percentage of Jason's kills are the result of shifts and shift grabs. Is that an accurate reflection of what happens in the films MOST of the time? I'm not even recommending that shift be taken out. I just think it needs to be reworked some. There are some simple changes that could make it much more balanced and suspenseful. It would also prevent people from running around in circles like idiots to avoid being shift grabbed. That's one of the most ridiculous looking things in this game and it makes no sense as it pertains to the films.

It's not about whether or not Jason can shift. It's about whether or not the current gameplay mechanics capture the horror and suspense of the films. Is the gameplay fun and challenging for both sides? Here's a little experiment we can all try. Start a Quick Play match and suicide in the first minute. Then go into spectator mode and press 'H' to turn off the HUD. Spectate the rest of the match watching anyone you want, pay close attention to the interactions with Jason. Does it feel like you are watching a horror movie? Is it suspenseful? Is it entertaining? Does anything look unintentionally funny? Does Jason feel like an unstoppable killing machine? Does it feel like a Friday the 13th film?

In my opinion there's something missing. That little spark of "magic" that makes everything gel together just isn't there. It all comes down to Jason and his ability to drive the experience for the other players. There are some moments of true brilliance when stalk is used effectively, but they are far more the exception than the rule. Right now this game feels more like cartoon than a horror movie and that needs to change. It all starts and ends with Jason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot of kills from the movies have people running away from jason in one frame only to run into him in the next. So i would say the game accurately depicts the films.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...