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A lot of people complain on this forum, and I see that a lot of it is based off winning and losing, and no one EVER speaks about the game's experience being bettered FOR THE GAME.. it's always FOR THE PLAYER.    People only throw ideas out on these forums to help themselves selfishly as a player, and as much as it pains me.. the devs read this non-sense and their directions are all skewed.

But that's not all the players' fault.

Granted, the developer team should be able to make confident decisions on their own game without forum help on certain things.  Like Jason hitting through doors...  Illfonic shouldn't need to question a poll on these types of OBVIOUS things that shouldn't be in the game, and should have been hotfixed out of the game 3 days after launch, they run a poll almost a year later on whether they should take such a thing OUT of the game... this would make anyone question their talents as a team, when obvious things like Jason getting hit through a door wasn't meant to BE in the game in the first place, it's not a tactic.. it's a hitbox and animation exploit.

And that brings me to my next point with Jason.  A lot of HOW counselors get away from him.. is based off of some mal-functioned, or crappily implemented mechanic in the game.  Want an example of what I mean?  The way a counselor has to tap free from Jason after a grab.  The counselor has to HOPE that Jason is standing in a closed in area, or is off balanced on the ground so that Jason's kills don't appear, via the game's working mechanics so that the counselor ACCIDENTALLY escapes his grasp..  

Does that not sound broken to you all?  When Jason or a counselor have to rely on an in-game mechanic exploit to 'win'. THAT IS BROKEN.. that's not a good mechanic.  And yet you guys over at Illfonic let this stuff roll around in the game for a year.  Another one is Jason's shift grab... it's loudly "Jason's excuse to catch people"  I guess because you thought that people would have a hard time catching counselors without it...  We can TOTALLY catch counselors without it.. but you haven't implemented STALK correctly yet, encouraging players to play Jason... like Jason.

Once again, it's not the players' fault... it's Illfonic's fault.  The players are only using what YOU, Illfonic, have handed us as players.  Shift grab is there, we're gonna use it.

SHIFT is necessary.  Shift GRAB to kill.. that's not necessary toward getting closer to that "Jason Voorhees" experience. 

SHIFT should be used to set yourself up for a counselor, not to MAKE THE KILL.  That ruins any kind of moment, chase, or suspenseful experience that COULD have been mustered up for that counselor player that Jason chose to kill.

There should be TWO main ways that Jason can kill.. sneaking up and catching someone off guard.  Or giving direct chases.

DIRECT CHASES.  Let's be honest... they feel like crap.  It astounds me how Illfonic hasn't added a "SPEED-UP" timer onto Jason so that when he's dedicated into a chase, he gets faster and faster over 10 second increments so that when you chase someone it doesn't look absolutely ridiculous.  Jason chasing someone down an open road and can't catch up??  Chasing someone around a table and it looks absolutely ridiculous and doesn't FEEL like a chase??  These are the things that Illfonic should have tested for, SEEN.. and been like, "Well this doesn't feel right, we gotta fix it"..  How hard is it to sit in a meeting and go.. "Hey every 10 seconds, we'll speed Jason up a bit if he's in a chase with someone for so much time" and they need to TEST this multiple times until they feel a point in which chases feel more authentic and less, stupid.

This would make the formula for Jason either choosing to stalk up on someone or chase them BOTH more exciting, because they'd both work correctly.

The REASON why people aren't playing your game isn't because of dedicated servers and all this stuff you guys are supposedly keeping STATS on preciously... it's because your mechanics are janky, amateur, and unattended... and Jason is not suspenseful.

I can guarantee right here in the forums that when Jason is created CORRECTLY and you guys work out all these amateurish mechanics and get Jason functioning properly as the force he's SUPPOSED to be in the game, but make it feel organic, balanced, and fun for both Jason and the counselors together.. you'll win back your playerbase.  But it's the right voices you need to listen to.. not those silly stat numbers on a page, they won't win your game back.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Laphin said:

 

Agreed with nearly all points.Great to have you back on here @Laphin.Btw,are you streaming F13 anytime soon? The Fun you have with the others while playing the game is something you cant find on other channels.

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@Laphin

Direct Chase Buff: I feel like doing this would increase the amount of Vanessas :(

I have my preference set to counselor and play Jenny so I don’t think my opinion is justified, but there are so many Vanessa’s every lobby I play and it’s getting very repetitive.

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The direct chase buff would be a nice addition although by direct chase buff I’m hoping it means on an open road like the one from Higgins to Stillwater. Not just if Jason is tunneling you for 10 minutes straight like breaking in 5 cabins and giving chase while everybody else gets objectives done. Then you’ll just have a Vanessa lobby because it makes slow counselors like Jenny and Deborah useless in these situations. I can MOST definitely agree with the break free scenario. I should be a QTE with a small bar that you have to hit and the size would be based on composure, strength, and fear levels. Although that would kind of make it easy for Jenny and Tommy to break free. Loving these ideas however

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42 minutes ago, Laphin said:

.....<snip>


DIRECT CHASES.  Let's be honest... they feel like crap.  It astounds me how Illfonic hasn't added a "SPEED-UP" timer onto Jason so that when he's dedicated into a chase, he gets faster and faster over 10 second increments so that when you chase someone it doesn't look absolutely ridiculous.  Jason chasing someone down an open road and can't catch up??  Chasing someone around a table and it looks absolutely ridiculous and doesn't FEEL like a chase??  These are the things that Illfonic should have tested for, SEEN.. and been like, "Well this doesn't feel right, we gotta fix it"..  How hard is it to sit in a meeting and go.. "Hey every 10 seconds, we'll speed Jason up a bit if he's in a chase with someone for so much time" and they need to TEST this multiple times until they feel a point in which chases feel more authentic and less, stupid.

<snip>

The REASON why people aren't playing your game isn't because of dedicated servers and all this stuff you guys are supposedly keeping STATS on preciously... it's because your mechanics are janky, amateur, and unattended... and Jason is not suspenseful.

I can guarantee right here in the forums that when Jason is created CORRECTLY and you guys work out all these amateurish mechanics and get Jason functioning properly as the force he's SUPPOSED to be in the game, but make it feel organic, balanced, and fun for both Jason and the counselors together.. you'll win back your playerbase.  But it's the right voices you need to listen to.. not those silly stat numbers on a page, they won't win your game back.

 

SHIFT-GRAB has been addressed previously. You can no longer terminate Shift into a grab or weapon swing (having to press the button twice with a small delay in response). This combined with simple evasion strategies has made the point pretty moot.

The game mechanics in many areas certainly need revision. Stalk should come before Shift in terms of what abilities Jason gets first to give Stealth a bit more utility. Sense mechanics should be addressed (especially Sense spam that offsets usefulness of Sense evasion perks). Counselor stats (how they function) should be addressed. Perks need a complete overhaul. Not a fan of incrementally speeding up Jason. Really the Fear mechanic should be brought into it more profoundly, IMO, to wear down the counselors. There are plenty of ways it could be addressed for sure.

There needs to be more tension in the game overall. You are right. The Devs do need to get on the ball and improve game mechanics.

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(This probably should get moved to the suggestions area)

For the most part, I agree with @Laphin, but it would require A LOT of reworking (so much so, it might as well be a new game for the extra time put in).  I would be in the minority with this thought (especially since they just doubled down on them), but I would start with:

* Remove the perk system and reintroduce the counselor abilities. I assume each "unique" ability would just be the max, or possibly varying degrees, of certain perks and their stats, such as Chad would have My Dads A Cop, or Buggzy with Heavy Hitter.  Possibly have 2 stats together to be considered an "ability", such as, again, Buggzy with Heavy Hitter and Thick Skinned as well.  Having them paired on one character like that would fit with their characters trope and would force a bit more thought into who to play as.  Hell, Vanessa can have Marathon and Restful, and since she wouldn't have Thick Skinned or Medic/Hypochondriac, it would clamp down on this whole "meta" everyone loves.

* Maybe not a speed increase over time, but when a chase begins as Jason, he gets a slight boost of speed (as long as his chase music is playing).  Running Jasons wouldn't look like they are jogging anymore (at least speed-wise), and the undead walking Jasons would get a slight powerwalk boost, so no more slow-pace chases.

* Have Fear levels impact actions and abilities.  Chad freaking out calling the police with maximum Fear would result in the police arriving sooner.  Or Adam trying to repair something with max Fear would be harder on him, even if he were theoretically to have something like Grease Monkey and Speed Demon as his ability/ abilities.

* Once Jason gets to Rage, cut down on not only stun durations, but chances as well.  Make it so getting to this point actually feels like Jason is pissed for it taking so long or getting attacked/trapped so much.

 

If I can think of any more, I'll edit and add.

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1 hour ago, Laphin said:

A lot of people complain on this forum, and I see that a lot of it is based off whining and losing...

FTFY

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33 minutes ago, Alkavian said:

SHIFT-GRAB has been addressed previously. You can no longer terminate Shift into a grab or weapon swing (having to press the button twice with a small delay in response). This combined with simple evasion strategies has made the point pretty moot.

The game mechanics in many areas certainly need revision. Stalk should come before Shift in terms of what abilities Jason gets first to give Stealth a bit more utility. Sense mechanics should be addressed (especially Sense spam that offsets usefulness of Sense evasion perks). Counselor stats (how they function) should be addressed. Perks need a complete overhaul. Not a fan of incrementally speeding up Jason. Really the Fear mechanic should be brought into it more profoundly, IMO, to wear down the counselors. There are plenty of ways it could be addressed for sure.

There needs to be more tension in the game overall. You are right. The Devs do need to get on the ball and improve game mechanics.

I terminate shift into a grab very easily, and quite often, and manage to catch people.  It's not been touched on properly... 
The situation is NOT moot when people are still doing it.

Fact is.. no one wants to see Jason appear next to them trying to grab.. which still happens 80% of the time, why??  Because the devs haven't completed their task, of making Jason.. more like Jason, when the Jason player has a better time approaching counselors and disposing of them, without the feeling and urge to shift quickly over to them and attempt a grab... that will be a breath of fresh air.  Plain and simple.  Winning or losing aside..

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1 hour ago, Laphin said:

Illfonic shouldn't need to question a poll on these types of OBVIOUS things that shouldn't be in the game

They polled it because it wasn't intended, but saw that some people liked and hated door stuns. 

 

@Laphin I think your points were pretty cool, that Jason speed up timer was even interesting! It reminds me of DBD where if you chase someone for a while, you'll continue to get bloodlust. 

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6 minutes ago, Qcici said:

They polled it because it wasn't intended, but saw that some people liked and hated door stuns. 

Why poll a feature that was never intended to be in the game?  That's lack of confidence in Direction on Illfonic's part, regarding their game on something so obviously NOT intended for the game in the first place.  It was a malfunction, that they LEFT in the game.  Typically MOST developers see something, "Oh, they can still hit Jason through the doors.. let's hotfix that real quick"  Instead they leave it in the game (for a year) and have a silly poll over it??  Nonsense.

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6 minutes ago, Laphin said:

I terminate shift into a grab very easily, and quite often, and manage to catch people.  It's not been touched on properly... 
The situation is NOT moot when people are still doing it.  Again, you're speaking from 'player winning' viewpoint and not 'the experience of the game'.

I'm looking at it from the point that it is not as sure-fire as it was before. Shift is meant to catch up to people or move quickly across the terrain in a locality. Shift-grab can be done still...sure. But it is not as broken as it was. They could just add a greater delay after conclusion of Shift before a grab can be performed and people would be inclined to use it more just to maneuver (which seems to be what you're getting at). If this was done, they'd probably have to decrease Shift recharge times a bit to offset the fact you cannot really ever grab someone out of it unless they are AFK and not maneuvering.

 

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Just now, Alkavian said:

I'm looking at it from the point that it is not as sure-fire as it was before. Shift is meant to catch up to people or move quickly across the terrain in a locality. Shift-grab can be done still...sure. But it is not as broken as it was. They could just add a greater delay after conclusion of Shift before a grab can be performed and people would be inclined to use it more just to maneuver (which seems to be what you're getting at). If this was done, they'd probably have to decrease Shift recharge times a bit to offset the fact you cannot really ever grab someone out of it unless they are AFK and not maneuvering.

 

Wait, they added a delay for shift grabs? I never knew that lol. I always see people continue to shift grab and I don't see delays. 

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2 minutes ago, Alkavian said:

I'm looking at it from the point that it is not as sure-fire as it was before. Shift is meant to catch up to people or move quickly across the terrain in a locality. Shift-grab can be done still...sure. But it is not as broken as it was. They could just add a greater delay after conclusion of Shift before a grab can be performed and people would be inclined to use it more just to maneuver (which seems to be what you're getting at). If this was done, they'd probably have to decrease Shift recharge times a bit to offset the fact you cannot really ever grab someone out of it unless they are AFK and not maneuvering.

 

You are right it's not as broken as it was...  but you just typed it.. "It's not as broken as it was".  

But it's still kinda broken tho isn't it.

IF they did add greater delay to grab after Jason's shift that WOULD help immensely.  Whether they decide to do that or not... hard to tell, but that WOULD be a good solution for sure.
Being unable to shift grab means they would obviously have to work on that "Jason catch-up" during chases where Jason is tunneling on someone, he should become faster over time, so it spells more and more danger for the person he's putting focus on.. that way the chase that ends up happening, doesn't feel long-winded or silly.

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IDK about removing shift grab/slash completely.  Knowing that Jason can come out of nowhere and snatch counselors keeps me on my toes and adds to the suspense.  Also, pulling if off as Jason is not as easy as it once was.  Players are a lot smarter now and zig zag or u-turn when it's anticipated. 

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5 minutes ago, Laphin said:

You are right it's not as broken as it was...  but you just typed it.. "It's not as broken as it was".  

But it's still kinda broken tho isn't it.

IF they did add greater delay to grab after Jason's shift that WOULD help immensely.  Whether they decide to do that or not... hard to tell, but that WOULD be a good solution for sure.
Being unable to shift grab means they would obviously have to work on that "Jason catch-up" during chases where Jason is tunneling on someone, he should become faster over time, so it spells more and more danger for the person he's putting focus on.. that way the chase that ends up happening, doesn't feel long-winded or silly.

Yeah the chase aspect is something that would require some tweaking. A lot of the issues lay with how the stats actually work (or don't work). Stamina is king in this game. Stamina+Speed is what drives so many to view Vanessa as THE meta character. I don't personally think we need to speed Jason up. The Fear aspect of the game is supposed to be wearing down the counselors so Jason can catch them. Higher Fear does lead to slower stamina regeneration, but it's kind of overshadowed by how easy it is to regain stamina if Jason is tunneling you. The fight back bump to stamina of 50% extends chases a lot. The ability to pop into a cabin and hit a hiding spot for about 5 seconds for a full top--off also extends the chase.

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1 minute ago, Ker Juice said:

IDK about removing shift grab/slash completely.  Knowing that Jason can come out of nowhere and snatch counselors keeps me on my toes and adds to the suspense.  Also, pulling if off as Jason is not as easy as it once was.  Players are a lot smarter now and zig zag or u-turn when it's anticipated. 

Jason could create suspense for you in so many better ways than this.. you just haven't experienced it yet, which is what we're KINDA trying to fight for.  You shouldn't be in suspense because you feel like you have to 'juke jason' all the time...  You should be in suspense because;

You don't know if he's gonna show up quietly around a corner or inside a house (because his STALK would be permanent).
Shift grabbing wouldn't be a thing anymore... 

Jason wouldn't show up on the minimap anymore.

Chase music would be changed to be dynamically tied in with Fear and Damage eliminating counselors awareness of where he is exactly, forcing the player to use their own eyes and ears.

Jason's sense would be vague and less pin point so moments where he JUST MISSES you would increase.

Objectives would be harder, slowing down the match to compensate for all these changes.

The combat mechanics would be refined to be less clunky and feel more organic to the game, and fighting Jason would almost be out of the question for most counselors.

Bugzy and stronger characters should feel more significant in possible babysitting weaker characters (but right now, weak characters rule at everything, like Deborah).

The chases would feel less canned and silly, ... watching Jason chase someone down an entire stretch of road, unable to catch them is horrendous...

There's so much IN YOUR FACE stuff that I question ILLFONIC on why they haven't bothered tending to any of this, just completely blows my mind. 

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7 minutes ago, Laphin said:

There's so much IN YOUR FACE stuff that I question ILLFONIC on why they haven't bothered tending to any of this, just completely blows my mind. 

I stopped being shocked over what these guys are doing to their game months ago. It's the supreme definition of "it is what it is." Honestly Paranoia (Canceled? Shelved? I don't know and neither do the devs) being swept under the rug was the last serving of bullshit I could take from anyone involved in this game.

I'm waiting for the long post from Wes about how the Grendel map isn't working as expected.......

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7 minutes ago, thatdudescott said:

I stopped being shocked over what these guys are doing to their game months ago. It's the supreme definition of "it is what it is." Honestly Paranoia (Canceled? Shelved? I don't know and neither do the devs) being swept under the rug was the last serving of bullshit I could take from anyone involved in this game.

I'm waiting for the long post from Wes about how the Grendel map isn't working as expected.......

Same. And with the lack of transparency and the fact we were promised dedicated servers a year ago "almost done" in August, to "October" to, well we have to update engine first. At this point it feels like they are just stringing us along to hold player numbers on console as long as possible. The only reason I am still here is because of the friends I have made in the community, and holding a small glimmer of hope that they finally get their shit together.

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23 minutes ago, Alkavian said:

Yeah the chase aspect is something that would require some tweaking. A lot of the issues lay with how the stats actually work (or don't work). Stamina is king in this game. Stamina+Speed is what drives so many to view Vanessa as THE meta character. I don't personally think we need to speed Jason up. The Fear aspect of the game is supposed to be wearing down the counselors so Jason can catch them. Higher Fear does lead to slower stamina regeneration, but it's kind of overshadowed by how easy it is to regain stamina if Jason is tunneling you. The fight back bump to stamina of 50% extends chases a lot. The ability to pop into a cabin and hit a hiding spot for about 5 seconds for a full top--off also extends the chase.

You hit a nice nail on the head there.

Counselor Stamina breaks...  ILLFONIC READ THIS STUFF...
Counselors (specifically Chad, Tommy, Vanessa, you know the deal) have way too many opportunities to sit around for a few moments and regain stamina, this makes chases and moments when Jason has been tailing someone FOR A NICE CHUNK OF TIME (while the counselor isn't trying very hard to get away), feel stale... awkward... in-genuine as a chase...  on top of that they will emote at you just to make sure they let you know how shitty Jason is to play.  

When you, Illfonic see shit like this happening continuously, you should bolster confidence enough to say, "Hey, we should change that.. it doesn't look good, and it's not fitting the atmosphere of Friday the 13th, as it leaves too much open for the counselors to make fun of Jason during a chase"  

ILLFONIC should be able to sit back and then say, "Frank Mancuso said in Friday the 13th Part 6 behind the scenes.. that Jason should never become the punchline.  Because once you make Jason funny.. you lose the character and what he stands for..  but it's okay to make everything AROUND JASON promote a little levity, just as long as you are not directly poking fun or making fun of the character himself... because that would hurt the brand."

But Illfonic... sadly... they don't say these things to themselves.. they don't seem to understand what Jason is about, and that carries over to their work done in this game, with people throwing emotes up at him and not being punished for it (maybe with Stamina loss), or people just being able to tea-bag him without the chance to kill from a laying position (how did they overlook THAT.. I have no idea).

Bottom line, back to the chases..
That's the experience your players are receiving trying to catch counselors... and hopefully you guys WATCH livestreams, and watch videos of this stuff happening, again, and again.  So you can digest what's going on.. You guys may have watched the movies over and over... but maybe you all at ILLFONIC should go back.. and watch the behind the scenes, so you can actually learn what 'made Jason successful in the industry' and better apply that to the game with a blue-book understanding of the character and what it takes to push that experience into the game... because right now.. you guys are just not nailing it. 

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They Overall need to Fix (rework) Stealth as well, This game doesn't really feel like A Survival Horror game, Because well, Jason can track you ass down with 2 things (Pings, Sense)

It Should be a challenge to hide from Jason and for Jason to find you, Would make the game a ton more exciting and fun to play! 

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As always, I'm with Laphin on this one. There's too much of a sense of competition in this game. Most of the people playing it don't seem to realize that winning isn't even really the point.

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5 minutes ago, SmugDoka said:

They Overall need to Fix (rework) Stealth as well, This game doesn't really feel like A Survival Horror game, Because well, Jason can track you ass down with 2 things (Pings, Sense)

It Should be a challenge to hide from Jason and for Jason to find you, Would make the game a ton more exciting and fun to play! 

Amen to this 100%.

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15 minutes ago, jameson87 said:

At this point it feels like they are just stringing us along to hold player numbers on console as long as possible.together.

dingdingding we have a winner.

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To re-iterate my earlier point, you're meant to log into the game and have an experience as though you're one of the hapless victims in the movie (if you're playing as a counselor). With all the COD/MK kids coming to the game now, the focus has shifted away from that and brought about a completely different approach. It's less about the experience of trying to survive a night at Crystal Lake and more about levels and emotes and "git gud" and teabagging the most dangerous slasher movie villain since Michael Myers.

To indirectly quote Laphin from one of his streams, it's damaging the brand.

I still love the game. I find it fun, wouldn't play it if I didn't. But it could be so much more than it is right now and I think Laphin has the right idea. He seems to get what's up.

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OP, I completely agree. I REALLY like your idea about speeding up Jason after so long in a Chase. I've stated in the past that it's downright ridiculous that Jason just casually jogs, while a counselor can just casually jogs as well, and still stay out of his grab range, enabling them to get away. Hate to bring it up here, but even dead by daylight has a system that speeds up the killer after so many seconds in a chase.

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