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NekoJubei

Balancing and Viability of Perks

Balancing of Perks  

26 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the current perks be properly balanced?

    • YES! some perks are just too overwhelming compared to others
      15
    • I think they are pretty fine atm.. some could use a buff though
      11
    • B-but my medic..
      0


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I think it's time to let devs know how we truly feel about the current perks. There has been lots of discussion about them.. About how some are useless, situational, gimmicky or just overwhelming compared to the others.

This is how I feel about them in alphabetical order assuming that everyone knows what they do. I would love to see you guys take your time to read this! Opinions are very much welcome and would really appreciate this if we could discuss it further. Let there be known that the current perk balancing is a bit messy and it's definetly not too late to change that. 

Adrenaline Rush: The bonus stamina granted by getting out of grab is not so much. By the time you ran away from Jason you either already entered a cabin or managed to reunite with teammates or escape by the cops or something. Honestly not worth the perk slot, not to mention that breaking free from grabs is already rare enough unless you use pocket knifes. If you want to have more stamina in general, you are better off using Marathon, since it indirectly gives you more stamina when you break free from grabs because you use less thanks to the perk.

IDEA TO BUFF: It's pretty hard to think of a reasonable buff to make it comparable to the others, my suggestion would be to combine it with Escape Artist so that it can have two nice bonuses to make it acceptable but I don't think that would be enough. Perhaps it can have another bonus where you get a short 4 second speed boost when you escape from a grab so that you can keep your distance alot more.

 

Aquanaut: With the upcoming buff that Aquanaut is getting, it won't be as bad as people make it to be, However the honest truth about why water-related perks aren't as good is not because of the perks themselves, It's because the lack of water in existent maps. This is why you don't have to use the water perks, why use them when it's not important or necessary to go swimming. Maps like the small variations, Crystal Lake and Packnack have zero reasons on why you should go to the water. Higgins is a good example of how swimming should be like in maps, You get to one area faster at the cost of more stamina but you'll be potentially exposing your location to Jason. Also for obtaining the sweater if the shack is at the island. Jarvis House somewhat tried to follow that but they did it really well in Pinehurst, a map balanced in land and water. I know every map is supposed to be unique but hopefully they add more reasons to go swimming.

IDEA TO BUFF: Pretty much create motives to actually go swimming.. that's basically it

 

Controlled Breathing: This one is actually rather decent but of course it's overshadowed by the top tier perks. Having fear go down in hiding spots is pretty decent and all but I feel like it could do more... It feels incomplete to me. They need to add another good reason to use this perk that makes sense.

IDEA TO BUFF: Up the benefit from 20% to 25% and along with the reduction to fear in hiding spots, make it that full fear counselors don't shriek in terror when Jason is nearby if they are in hiding spots. This would promote stealth-gameplay that won't be ruined due to random murmuring.

 

Easy Listening: I honestly don't know what they were thinking when they decided to make this perk lol. This perk is way more situational than My Dad's a Cop except it doesn't reward you that much.. But hey at least it's getting buffed I suppose. I still think the buff won't be able to make it a good perk but I have a good idea to make it viable.

IDEA TO BUFF: First of all, add more radios to existent maps and make them carryable and placeable(you have to turn it off to carry it) so that the flexibility of this perk improves. Very high stamina regen thanks to the radio however it makes alot of noise so that Jason finds you easier. Second make them repairable so that you can have more usage from them. Think about it.. with these things added it would make the perk alot better! 

 

Escape Artist: Uh... yeah escaping grabs is already hard as it is because once the button mashing sequence starts, Jason can already trigger a kill so using this perk won't really save you from grabs as often as you think it will. Maybe if you use it on the Higgins House stairs since Jason has to walk out of them to start a kill but yeah.. It's not really useful.. I guess you could use the no fear build on Tommy with max Escape Artist and camp at the stairs since you'll be immune to grabs lol (pls don't try this)

IDEA TO BUFF: I already suggested to combine it with Adrenaline Rush since the sole bonus granted by the perk isn't as great so.. yeah not much you can do to make this perk good since instakills are a thing...

 

Evasion: Before I start they need to make this perk properly work so that you can move or swing freely when you finish the dodge because it's really clunky atm. So yeah about dodges, I only see people use them when they hit Jason and then proceed to cancel it with a dodge so that they can try and evade a grab. It doesn't work all the time since Jason can immediately grab when he gets hit but it somewhat works when he isn't expecting it.

IDEA TO BUFF: Make it where you also use less stamina while dodging so that it gives you more opportunities to dodge without using too much stamina. also make dodges less awkward and more fluid please.

 

Firecracker: This perk is actually pretty cool since well, you spawn with a firecracker, meaning that you'll pretty much get a guaranteed stun out of Jason if you utilize it properly. I honestly not sure if the range increase makes a difference since I never got a good version of this perk but hopefully it's good enough because sometimes my counselor decides to throw the crackers like if they were pitching a baseball, causing my death from a grab. Buuut of course like most perks in the game it's overshadowed by the top tier ones.

IDEA TO BUFF: Along with the range increase, make it where the duration also last longer! This would help the counselors get more objective-control from Jason and also give them more chances to recover stamina in the open while getting chased.

 

Friendship: It's not that this perk is bad... It's because counselors rarely group up to fight Jason.. Not to mention that it's pretty easy to demask him in the first place because of Tommy(if the player is smart ofc) so you don't really need to use this.. If you do manage to use this perk with a full team well.. just be ready to demask Jason with only 3 machete Vanessa swings lol

IDEA TO BUFF: I legit have no clue on how to buff this perk lol. If any of you could come up with a reasonable one it would be very much appreciated.

 

Grease Monkey: While it's pretty situational since you aren't always the driver.. I don't think this perk needs any changes. I mean it's working as intended and it's supposed to be doing what it is.

Flashbacks of vanilla 50% Grease Monkey ohhh the horror.....

 

Grinder: I'm not even gonna bother lol

IDEA TO BUFF: S M H why is the max 5% if somebody wants to grind then let them grind (: Raise the 5% to 10%

 

Heavy Hitter: The reason why this perk isn't really that great is because it's a bat exclusive and well you aren't always gonna stun Jason with a bat. I think you ya'll already know how to buff it lol

IDEA TO BUFF: Change it from Increased Stun Duration with a Bat to Overall Stun Duration increased with melee weapons. It would buff the perk by removing the restriction with bat stuns and would overall help out counselors in objective wars

 

Heavy Mover: This perk is just straight up useless.. There's no point in barricading doors faster because once the counselor enters the animation, Jason can't interact with the door and can only do a normal swing at it to damage it. I guess It's good because you'll get hit through the door less while barricading it but its still pretty useless and extremely overshadowed by other perks.. But it can be easily buffed to make it viable!

IDEA TO BUFF: Nerf it from 50% to 25% and also add the benefits of opening,closing and locking doors faster! this would be the door-version of Sneaky and with these bonuses it would improve indoor juking from Jason by a ton and help speed up the looting phase in cabins. and before you say "but we can already open doors faster!" well we can open windows faster too right? and Sneaky exists.

 

Heavy Sleeper: I legit don't know why this exist... we can already avoid sense by going in hiding spots right? unless im missing something... of course we can sense through outdoor hiding spots during rage so... why is this a thing again...? I don't know what to say of this perk... It's super bad and can't think of literally anything to make it good... 

 

Homebody, Level Headed, Low Profile: I figured I should be putting these perks together because I have the same thoughts towards them but.. here's the thing.. Let's say you managed to get perfect rolls of these perks and decided to use them.. Altogether that would grant you a total of an aproximate 60% sense avoidance indoors and 40% sense avoidance outdoors right? Sounds pretty viable on paper but it really isn't.. Sense can be spammed and you are going to be found once the RNG decides to fail.. and once you get found, you'll be alot vurneable to damage and in combat. Not to mention this build works the best when you are alone. 

IDEA TO BUFF: Change it from chance to avoid sense to sense distance decreased, this would make you alot more comformable if you are using these perks because you''ll have an idea from where you should be keeping your distance from Jason. Let's say that you have reached the required percentage to avoid sense early game when you hear the chase theme, this is the time where you should be jogging away from Jason assuming you have a high stealth counselor or going in a hiding spot to avoid sense completely, you get the idea. Of course you won't be hiding forever, once rage kicks in, expect to eventually get found but by that time you'll have a good set of items to try to survive the encounter.

 

Hypochondriac: Pretty straightforward perk.. Let's you spawn with a medical spray and increased healing.. pretty great right?...maybe not because the extra healing benefits granted do not work at all.. of course this is bugged but once it gets fixed it would be a handy-dandy perk 

 

Ice Cold: Very situational perk and the bonuses aren't really great. One of the worst perks in the game currently and there's no reason to use this over other perks.

IDEA TO BUFF: A great way to make it viable is to make the counselor immune to dead bodies like how Tommy is, while also providing a 0-10% fear resistance bonus like how Preparedness and Nerves of Steel give. With this, it would make it a really balanced and good perk.

 

Lead Foot: It's getting buffed already and all it needed was that extra 10% push so I don't think it needs any changes, thanks guys.

 

Lightfoot: No joke this is pretty much an AJ-Exclusive perk since it doesn't work on Tiffany for some reason(fix it pls). This grants AJ the ability to sprint without generating any noise pings. It's great on AJ and all but what about the rest of the counselors? That's right its useless.

IDEA TO BUFF: Change it from Sprint Noise reduction to Overall Noise reduction while moving decreased. This will hopefully give the rest of the mid-high stealth counselors the ability to be able to jog silently.

 

Lone Wolf: Don't know if this perk makes a difference or not.. but it's easily overshadowed by Preparedness, Nerves of Steel or even Night Owl, Not a great perk honestly but it could be better.

IDEA TO BUFF: Hmm what can I say? It's supposed to be a perk to benefit you if you like going alone and want to avoid Jason so how about a reduction to sense distance as well?  To buff this one is pretty debatable.. Let me know if you guys have any other ideas.

 

Man At Arms: AAAAH why is this perk getting nerfed it wasn't that good in the first place ): I was so happy to know when it was finally gonna get fixed since I have a perfectly rolled 25% one with no weaknesses but when I finally used it, I was disappointed.. It's not as great because the durability increase scales with luck.. So unfortunately AJ won't get an extra bat hit and will still have really low durability with other weapons.

IDEA TO BUFF: Don't nerf it! Make it scale better so that the low luck counselors can get more noticeable hits from their weapons.

 

Marathon: Pretty balanced and well made perk! No changes at all.

 

Medic: This is hands down the best perk in the entire game and I KNOW that a lot of people agree with this. The ability to be able to heal twice from each spray it's crazy, With this you'll be able to heal up on throwing knifes, swings, fall damage and eat up a ton of traps without risking much. This is a nightmare with every Jason if everyone in the lobby is running Medic and know the truth about how easy it is to take out traps with them, especially -Traps. You can also window camp with this to make Jason waste time (Can be countered by shifting to the other side of the window if the Jason player is smart enough) It's pretty mandatory to run this perk because of how easy it is to take damage but it shouldn't be as ridiculous as it is now, not to mention it overshadows the rest of the perks.

IDEA TO NERF: Change it from double usage of each medical spray to double usage from the FIRST medical spray that you acquire. This would balance the perk while mantaining the double spray usage feature.

 

Motorboating: Like Lead Foot, all it needed was the extra % push to make it viable. With the upcoming buff, we can hopefully expect to outspeed neutral Water Speed Jason's and get to the exit as soon as possible before Jason notices and morphs.

 

My Dad's a Cop: Don't know why the perk got nerfed but I don't think it's going to hurt it that much. It still has a pretty high percentage and it's supposed to be a situational but useful perk. No changes honestly

 

Nerves of Steel: Good perk and pretty balanced. Maybe make it where you can see your stamina in full fear but no changes needed.

 

Night Owl: While it's pretty crazy that the max percentage is 60% It's still not a very acceptable perk but it isn't bad either. It needs one more bonus to give it that slight viability push.

IDEA TO BUFF: Make it where your counselor doesn't react when the power goes off.

 

Potent Ranger: Also one of the worst perks in the game. Why give more damage to Tommy when he already has 10 strength? without that perk he can still 2 hit Jason's mask with a machete or non-stun axe swings. This needs different bonuses in general, It should be a perk to make Tommy Jarvis even more powerful(not damage wise he already is lol)

IDEA TO BUFF: Change the bonus from More Damage as Tommy to 0-15% Fear reduction and impossible to reach max fear as Tommy(you still can reach lv3 fear but not lv4 fear where you lose your HUD and screen blacks out.) WIth this, Tommy players will feel more comformable about hunting Jason down and helping the others without getting much fear.

 

Preparedness: Good perk. No changes at all.

 

Psychic: This pretty much allows you to quickly communicate with others in game chat once the game starts. However, the voice range increase is pretty useless and doesn't really help you much.

IDEA TO BUFF: Change the voice range increased to 0-10% fear reduction. With this it'll become the Walkie-Talkie version of Preparedness.

 

Pyro: One of the worst perks in the game. Seeing Jason for a couple of seconds more in the map with Flare guns is not going to help you at all lol.

IDEA TO BUFF: Also makes you spawn with a Flare Gun. Automatically makes it a decent perk if they do this.

 

Quiet Swimmer: I don't know how to start.. this perk is only useful if you want to steal the boat if Jason manages to drown counselors and morphs away. I guess you can use it on Pinehurst? But why use that when you can use the upcoming 35% swim speed and less stamina reduction Aquanaut perk? it's also getting nerfed when it's already one of the worst perks in the game. 

IDEA TO BUFF: Change the sense reduction to sense distance decreased while in the water and change from less noise in the water to no noise generated while normal swimming (You still make noise if you fast swim) This is the only way to make this perk good, by making it a stealthy version of Aquanaut.

 

Restful: I legit don't have a clue if this perk makes a difference or not.. Please inform me lol but judging on what it does on paper, It seems pretty decent enough.. I still think Marathon alone outclasses it though

 

Scout: In my opinion this is the worst perk in the game.. If you compare this with other perks it's just wow how did they even not argue when this perk was made. Can be easily fixed though

IDEA TO BUFF: Aside from trap escape bonus, add where you can place down and disable traps faster! Also increase the percentage from 15% to 25%. This would motivate the players to place down more traps without going through that awfully long animation of arming it.

 

Slugger: Don't think this perk needs any changes as well, even though it's weird that a perk that lets you spawn with a bat grants you more damage and less stun chance.. lol still good though for the Battle Chads

 

Sneaky: It works but it isn't working as intended.. once you finish the animation with sneaky, your character goes into a weird walking animation for like a second so you can't really move for a bit. Hopefully they fix that. It's also not really Sneaky when your character makes noise when you are going through a window..

IDEA TO BUFF: Make it where it mutes any window related sounds(opening,going through it, and stepping out of the window where it makes a THUD sound)

 

Spacial Awareness: Really useless perk. While it's nice to somewhat lower the RNG of tripping, it still feels pretty incomplete to me like Ice Cold. I rather use other perks that help me on other areas to survive longer.

IDEA TO BUFF: Increase the benefit from 25% to 50%.

 

Speed Demon: Working as intended. No changes needed.

 

Sucker Punch: One of the best perks in the game right next to Medic. It's already easy enough to stun Jason due to everyone having the same stun chance(Really? Deborah having the same stun chance as Buggzy?) but with this perk it just makes it easier. a 25% Sucker Punch makes an Axe guaranteed stun and wrench stun 90% of the time. If you pair this perk up with Swift Attacker,  You are gonna give Jason a tough time assuming you know how to combat lol. If you stick with others with the same perks, Jason is gonna have a bad time.

IDEA TO NERF: Make Strength calculate Stun Chance and change it from 25% to 15% to ultimately lessen the stun fests.

 

Swift Attacker: Definetly working as intended. No changes needed. The reason why this perk overshadows the others is because you can stun Jason easily as it is and the other perks are just badly made.

 

Teamwork: Same reason with Friendship, It's only for coordinated teams who tend to stick together. Don't think it's bad since it's a team-specific perk

 

Thick Skinned: Overall well balanced perk. A bit overshadowed by the current Medic but still good nonetheless

anyone remember the vanilla Thick Skinned days? haha...

 

Thrasher: The perk for counselor's who just want to go ham on Jason with an axe! The problem is actually finding an axe...

IDEA TO BUFF: Spawn with an Axe

 

Tinker: Once again one of the worst perks in the game. Increasing your repair speed will only be worse because you'll tend to mess up more often and that's what we tend to avoid and it's also useless on high repair counselors because they can already repair lightning fast. Can be improved.

IDEA TO BUFF: Make it where it makes the skill check zones bigger by 0-5%. Definetly nerf base 2 repair first though.

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I think a better nerf for Medic is instead reduce the healing amount by implementing a negative value regardless of grade,  Like a low - 10% to high -%30 for example.  This way, it keeps it's utility while needing more sprays if you plan on just healing off knives or other damages.

Nerves of Steel is already strong enough.  Seeing your stamina hub would be nice, but I think this will just cause even more people to use it and make Jason's pressure game overall harder on him.

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20 minutes ago, NekoJubei said:

It's because counselors rarely group up to fight Jason.

 

Yeah, of course, they don't. They just play as a half-naked Chads for survival purposes. ._.

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I disagree about Night Owl OP, it's actually a very underrated perk. Considering that the darkness is the #1 most prevalent source of fear in this game (other than if Jason tunnels almost the entire game), being able to reduce more than half that fear can prove very useful.

A special case is Jenny. Supposedly she can equip this perk to completely negate stumbling, but I don't know the exact percentage yet to be able to tell whether this is fact or not.

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8 minutes ago, GeneiJin said:

I think a better nerf for Medic is instead reduce the healing amount by implementing a negative value regardless of grade,  Like a low - 10% to high -%30 for example.  This way, it keeps it's utility while damaging more sprays if you plan on just healing off knives or other damages.

Nerves of Steel is already strong enough.  Seeing your stamina hub would be nice, but I think this will just cause even more people to use it and make Jason's pressure game overall harder on him.

That could work as well.. lower % healings but mre usage It could work.

Yeah I suppose that's true I'm still having mixed feelings about some perks. Not to mention that you can pair up it up with preparedness for the no fear build

7 minutes ago, FrenchFriedPotaters said:

Yeah, of course, they don't. They just play as a half-naked Chads for survival purposes. ._.

lolol I guess I should of been more specific oops I mean like its common to see maybe 2-3 people fighting Jason but rare to see the entire team or 5 counselors fighting Jason

 

4 minutes ago, Trident77 said:

I disagree about Night Owl OP, it's actually a very underrated perk. Considering that the darkness is the #1 most prevalent source of fear in this game (other than if Jason tunnels almost the entire game), being able to reduce more than half that fear can prove very useful.

A special case is Jenny. Supposedly she can equip this perk to completely negate stumbling, but I don't know the exact percentage yet to be able to tell whether this is fact or not.

I have the perk myself I think around 47% and yeah I agree that it's pretty underrated. It helps when you are running around in the map to get to places faster but I would prefer to use NoE or Preparedness if I got the chance of obtaining max percentages of them since it makes my overall fear gain slower

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13 minutes ago, NekoJubei said:

Yeah I suppose that's true I'm still having mixed feelings about some perks. Not to mention that you can pair up it up with preparedness for the no fear build

Well, that is a special case since that only applies with Jenny and requires near perfect values from both NoS and Preparedness.  Honestly though, most of the perks are junk because they were not intended to impact the odds of survival drastically as some of them indeed did.  David Langeliers confirmed this from his GDC presentation that perks were added at the last moments, so likely they rashly brainstormed without much thought of the consequences some of them would have.  Even most of the "meta" perks are worthless unless you have a Epic, or at least a Rare.  Then you have others that are great regardless.  A poor Medic or Nerves of Steel are better choices than majority of the other Epic Perks.

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2 minutes ago, GeneiJin said:

Well, that is a special case since that only applies with Jenny and requires near perfect values from both NoS and Preparedness.  Honestly though, most of the perks are junk because they were not intended to impact the odds of survival as some of them indeed did.  David Langeliers confirmed this from his GDC presentation that perks were added at the last moments, so likely they rashly brainstormed without much thought of the consequences some of them would have.  Even most of the "meta" perks are worthless unless you have a Epic, or at least a Rare.  Then you have others that are great regardless.  A poor Medic or Nerves of Steel are better choices than majority of the other Epic Perks.

True that. Im guessing they were supposed to be a substitute for counselor abilities since I heard they were removed because it could impact balance and would take a lot of time to execute them right. Hopefully they properly look up on the existent perks and balance them the right way or completely rework the useless ones like Ice Cold or Scout. Perks are definetly not the only thing that need balancing though. counselor stats are still unbalanced and some Jason stats don't even work (cough stun resistance cough defense)

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1 minute ago, DasMurich said:

Anything they can do to push stealth mechanics in the game I'm all for.

The only way I think this can be done with the existing mechanics would have stealth tied to chances that Sense won't detect you pre-rage.  This can be a double edge sword though, since good Jasons spam sense anyways, and can pretend they don't see you, then ambush you.  I prefer consistence however (ether he sees you or don't), which is why I don't endorse sense avoidance perks.  I honestly think stealth stat is fine for what it is.  While not the best stat, understanding how it work allows you to be creative on how to use it.

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23 minutes ago, DasMurich said:

Anything they can do to push stealth mechanics in the game I'm all for.

 

7 minutes ago, GeneiJin said:

The only way I think this can be done with the existing mechanics would have stealth tied to chances that Sense won't detect you pre-rage.  This can be a double edge sword though, since good Jasons spam sense anyways, and can pretend they don't see you, then ambush you.  I prefer consistence however (ether he sees you or don't), which is why I don't endorse sense avoidance perks.  I honestly think stealth stat is fine for what it is.  While not the best stat, understanding how it work allows you to be creative on how to use it.

Make Strength calculate Stun Chance, Make Stealth affect Sense distance

With these changes, it would actually make the stealth characters play stealthy and rely less on combat and would make Vanessa's 1 stealth an actual weakness. She's strong because everyone's noise pings are mixed up and sense distance is the same for every counselor on spawn. This would encourage Jason to chase her more often

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Honestly no matter what changes are made to the current set of perks, the situation will be the same. You will still have the same few perks that are at the top, because of how practical they are / how much value you get out of them compared to all others. Thick Skinned, Medic, Swift, Sucker are all useful for the entire match and in all situations, and replacing any one of them will put you at a disadvantage (health-wise and combat-wise). Everything else is specific / situational and can be done without, including the utility perks which can simply be found on the map. Even something like Marathon is not going to make a big difference for a low mobility counselor, and high mobility counselors do just fine without it.  At most I would include Nerves of Steel / Preparedness in the valued perks list simply for Jenny No Fear build.

What needs to happen is a total revamp of the perk system, for which I would suggest making perks upgradeable so if someone just wants to stick with the meta perks, they can simply upgrade them one at a time removing all the frustration of having non-viable perks (and all their versions) in the roll. Conversely, if someone wants to try alternate perk builds for specific reasons, they can invest CP into upgrading those and not just getting worse duplicates of what they already have. The fact that you can be max level and roll 1% Grinders or equally useless perks is a total joke. The amount of RNG in this game in general is cancer, and the reason for a lot of its problems.

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17 minutes ago, Tommy86 said:

Honestly no matter what changes are made to the current set of perks, the situation will be the same. You will still have the same few perks that are at the top, because of how practical they are / how much value you get out of them compared to all others. Thick Skinned, Medic, Swift, Sucker are all useful for the entire match and in all situations, and replacing any one of them will put you at a disadvantage (health-wise and combat-wise). Everything else is specific / situational and can be done without, including the utility perks which can simply be found on the map. Even something like Marathon is not going to make a big difference for a low mobility counselor, and high mobility counselors do just fine without it.  At most I would include Nerves of Steel / Preparedness in the valued perks list simply for Jenny No Fear build.

What needs to happen is a total revamp of the perk system, for which I would suggest making perks upgradeable so if someone just wants to stick with the meta perks, they can simply upgrade them one at a time removing all the frustration of having non-viable perks (and all their versions) in the roll. Conversely, if someone wants to try alternate perk builds for specific reasons, they can invest CP into upgrading those and not just getting worse duplicates of what they already have. The fact that you can be max level and roll 1% Grinders or equally useless perks is a total joke. The amount of RNG in this game in general is cancer, and the reason for a lot of its problems.

The sad truth ): The real problem is not mainly the perks, it's the accessibility and the restricted freedom that the perk system currently has. I still think some definetly do need buffs and nerfs though.

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38 minutes ago, NekoJubei said:

The sad truth ): The real problem is not mainly the perks, it's the accessibility and the restricted freedom that the perk system currently has. I still think some definetly do need buffs and nerfs though.

Yeah I'm sure they could all use some changes, I just don't think it would make much difference as long as the system stays the same. Based on the perks update posted a while back, you can see just how clueless they are by nerfing Quiet Swimmer and MAA, which is stupid for 2 reasons since not only is no one using those perks, but they weren't out of line to begin with. Just for example. Then you have Legendary perks update for even more RNG than before. I just don't get it to be honest. The real problem is not only accessibility, but also a complete lack of incentive for players to progress. Of course there's been a hundred discussions just like this since release of the game, but they are simply choosing not to listen to the players on this topic.

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3 hours ago, NekoJubei said:

I think it's time to let devs know how we truly feel about the current perks. There has been lots of discussion about them.. About how some are useless, situational, gimmicky or just overwhelming compared to the others.

This is how I feel about them in alphabetical order assuming that everyone knows what they do. I would love to see you guys take your time to read this! Opinions are very much welcome and would really appreciate this if we could discuss it further. Let there be known that the current perk balancing is a bit messy and it's definetly not too late to change that. 

Adrenaline Rush: The bonus stamina granted by getting out of grab is not so much. By the time you ran away from Jason you either already entered a cabin or managed to reunite with teammates or escape by the cops or something. Honestly not worth the perk slot, not to mention that breaking free from grabs is already rare enough unless you use pocket knifes. If you want to have more stamina in general, you are better off using Marathon, since it indirectly gives you more stamina when you break free from grabs because you use less thanks to the perk.

IDEA TO BUFF: It's pretty hard to think of a reasonable buff to make it comparable to the others, my suggestion would be to combine it with Escape Artist so that it can have two nice bonuses to make it acceptable but I don't think that would be enough. Perhaps it can have another bonus where you get a short 4 second speed boost when you escape from a grab so that you can keep your distance alot more.

 

Aquanaut: With the upcoming buff that Aquanaut is getting, it won't be as bad as people make it to be, However the honest truth about why water-related perks aren't as good is not because of the perks themselves, It's because the lack of water in existent maps. This is why you don't have to use the water perks, why use them when it's not important or necessary to go swimming. Maps like the small variations, Crystal Lake and Packnack have zero reasons on why you should go to the water. Higgins is a good example of how swimming should be like in maps, You get to one area faster at the cost of more stamina but you'll be potentially exposing your location to Jason. Also for obtaining the sweater if the shack is at the island. Jarvis House somewhat tried to follow that but they did it really well in Pinehurst, a map balanced in land and water. I know every map is supposed to be unique but hopefully they add more reasons to go swimming.

IDEA TO BUFF: Pretty much create motives to actually go swimming.. that's basically it

 

Controlled Breathing: This one is actually rather decent but of course it's overshadowed by the top tier perks. Having fear go down in hiding spots is pretty decent and all but I feel like it could do more... It feels incomplete to me. They need to add another good reason to use this perk that makes sense.

IDEA TO BUFF: Up the benefit from 20% to 25% and along with the reduction to fear in hiding spots, make it that full fear counselors don't shriek in terror when Jason is nearby if they are in hiding spots. This would promote stealth-gameplay that won't be ruined due to random murmuring.

 

Easy Listening: I honestly don't know what they were thinking when they decided to make this perk lol. This perk is way more situational than My Dad's a Cop except it doesn't reward you that much.. But hey at least it's getting buffed I suppose. I still think the buff won't be able to make it a good perk but I have a good idea to make it viable.

IDEA TO BUFF: First of all, add more radios to existent maps and make them carryable and placeable(you have to turn it off to carry it) so that the flexibility of this perk improves. Very high stamina regen thanks to the radio however it makes alot of noise so that Jason finds you easier. Second make them repairable so that you can have more usage from them. Think about it.. with these things added it would make the perk alot better! 

 

Escape Artist: Uh... yeah escaping grabs is already hard as it is because once the button mashing sequence starts, Jason can already trigger a kill so using this perk won't really save you from grabs as often as you think it will. Maybe if you use it on the Higgins House stairs since Jason has to walk out of them to start a kill but yeah.. It's not really useful.. I guess you could use the no fear build on Tommy with max Escape Artist and camp at the stairs since you'll be immune to grabs lol (pls don't try this)

IDEA TO BUFF: I already suggested to combine it with Adrenaline Rush since the sole bonus granted by the perk isn't as great so.. yeah not much you can do to make this perk good since instakills are a thing...

 

Evasion: Before I start they need to make this perk properly work so that you can move or swing freely when you finish the dodge because it's really clunky atm. So yeah about dodges, I only see people use them when they hit Jason and then proceed to cancel it with a dodge so that they can try and evade a grab. It doesn't work all the time since Jason can immediately grab when he gets hit but it somewhat works when he isn't expecting it.

IDEA TO BUFF: Make it where you also use less stamina while dodging so that it gives you more opportunities to dodge without using too much stamina. also make dodges less awkward and more fluid please.

 

Firecracker: This perk is actually pretty cool since well, you spawn with a firecracker, meaning that you'll pretty much get a guaranteed stun out of Jason if you utilize it properly. I honestly not sure if the range increase makes a difference since I never got a good version of this perk but hopefully it's good enough because sometimes my counselor decides to throw the crackers like if they were pitching a baseball, causing my death from a grab. Buuut of course like most perks in the game it's overshadowed by the top tier ones.

IDEA TO BUFF: Along with the range increase, make it where the duration also last longer! This would help the counselors get more objective-control from Jason and also give them more chances to recover stamina in the open while getting chased.

 

Friendship: It's not that this perk is bad... It's because counselors rarely group up to fight Jason.. Not to mention that it's pretty easy to demask him in the first place because of Tommy(if the player is smart ofc) so you don't really need to use this.. If you do manage to use this perk with a full team well.. just be ready to demask Jason with only 3 machete Vanessa swings lol

IDEA TO BUFF: I legit have no clue on how to buff this perk lol. If any of you could come up with a reasonable one it would be very much appreciated.

 

Grease Monkey: While it's pretty situational since you aren't always the driver.. I don't think this perk needs any changes. I mean it's working as intended and it's supposed to be doing what it is.

Flashbacks of vanilla 50% Grease Monkey ohhh the horror.....

 

Grinder: I'm not even gonna bother lol

IDEA TO BUFF: S M H why is the max 5% if somebody wants to grind then let them grind (: Raise the 5% to 10%

 

Heavy Hitter: The reason why this perk isn't really that great is because it's a bat exclusive and well you aren't always gonna stun Jason with a bat. I think you ya'll already know how to buff it lol

IDEA TO BUFF: Change it from Increased Stun Duration with a Bat to Overall Stun Duration increased with melee weapons. It would buff the perk by removing the restriction with bat stuns and would overall help out counselors in objective wars

 

Heavy Mover: This perk is just straight up useless.. There's no point in barricading doors faster because once the counselor enters the animation, Jason can't interact with the door and can only do a normal swing at it to damage it. I guess It's good because you'll get hit through the door less while barricading it but its still pretty useless and extremely overshadowed by other perks.. But it can be easily buffed to make it viable!

IDEA TO BUFF: Nerf it from 50% to 25% and also add the benefits of opening,closing and locking doors faster! this would be the door-version of Sneaky and with these bonuses it would improve indoor juking from Jason by a ton and help speed up the looting phase in cabins. and before you say "but we can already open doors faster!" well we can open windows faster too right? and Sneaky exists.

 

Heavy Sleeper: I legit don't know why this exist... we can already avoid sense by going in hiding spots right? unless im missing something... of course we can sense through outdoor hiding spots during rage so... why is this a thing again...? I don't know what to say of this perk... It's super bad and can't think of literally anything to make it good... 

 

Homebody, Level Headed, Low Profile: I figured I should be putting these perks together because I have the same thoughts towards them but.. here's the thing.. Let's say you managed to get perfect rolls of these perks and decided to use them.. Altogether that would grant you a total of an aproximate 60% sense avoidance indoors and 40% sense avoidance outdoors right? Sounds pretty viable on paper but it really isn't.. Sense can be spammed and you are going to be found once the RNG decides to fail.. and once you get found, you'll be alot vurneable to damage and in combat. Not to mention this build works the best when you are alone. 

IDEA TO BUFF: Change it from chance to avoid sense to sense distance decreased, this would make you alot more comformable if you are using these perks because you''ll have an idea from where you should be keeping your distance from Jason. Let's say that you have reached the required percentage to avoid sense early game when you hear the chase theme, this is the time where you should be jogging away from Jason assuming you have a high stealth counselor or going in a hiding spot to avoid sense completely, you get the idea. Of course you won't be hiding forever, once rage kicks in, expect to eventually get found but by that time you'll have a good set of items to try to survive the encounter.

 

Hypochondriac: Pretty straightforward perk.. Let's you spawn with a medical spray and increased healing.. pretty great right?...maybe not because the extra healing benefits granted do not work at all.. of course this is bugged but once it gets fixed it would be a handy-dandy perk 

 

Ice Cold: Very situational perk and the bonuses aren't really great. One of the worst perks in the game currently and there's no reason to use this over other perks.

IDEA TO BUFF: A great way to make it viable is to make the counselor immune to dead bodies like how Tommy is, while also providing a 0-10% fear resistance bonus like how Preparedness and Nerves of Steel give. With this, it would make it a really balanced and good perk.

 

Lead Foot: It's getting buffed already and all it needed was that extra 10% push so I don't think it needs any changes, thanks guys.

 

Lightfoot: No joke this is pretty much an AJ-Exclusive perk since it doesn't work on Tiffany for some reason(fix it pls). This grants AJ the ability to sprint without generating any noise pings. It's great on AJ and all but what about the rest of the counselors? That's right its useless.

IDEA TO BUFF: Change it from Sprint Noise reduction to Overall Noise reduction while moving decreased. This will hopefully give the rest of the mid-high stealth counselors the ability to be able to jog silently.

 

Lone Wolf: Don't know if this perk makes a difference or not.. but it's easily overshadowed by Preparedness, Nerves of Steel or even Night Owl, Not a great perk honestly but it could be better.

IDEA TO BUFF: Hmm what can I say? It's supposed to be a perk to benefit you if you like going alone and want to avoid Jason so how about a reduction to sense distance as well?  To buff this one is pretty debatable.. Let me know if you guys have any other ideas.

 

Man At Arms: AAAAH why is this perk getting nerfed it wasn't that good in the first place ): I was so happy to know when it was finally gonna get fixed since I have a perfectly rolled 25% one with no weaknesses but when I finally used it, I was disappointed.. It's not as great because the durability increase scales with luck.. So unfortunately AJ won't get an extra bat hit and will still have really low durability with other weapons.

IDEA TO BUFF: Don't nerf it! Make it scale better so that the low luck counselors can get more noticeable hits from their weapons.

 

Marathon: Pretty balanced and well made perk! No changes at all.

 

Medic: This is hands down the best perk in the entire game and I KNOW that a lot of people agree with this. The ability to be able to heal twice from each spray it's crazy, With this you'll be able to heal up on throwing knifes, swings, fall damage and eat up a ton of traps without risking much. This is a nightmare with every Jason if everyone in the lobby is running Medic and know the truth about how easy it is to take out traps with them, especially -Traps. You can also window camp with this to make Jason waste time (Can be countered by shifting to the other side of the window if the Jason player is smart enough) It's pretty mandatory to run this perk because of how easy it is to take damage but it shouldn't be as ridiculous as it is now, not to mention it overshadows the rest of the perks.

IDEA TO NERF: Change it from double usage of each medical spray to double usage from the FIRST medical spray that you acquire. This would balance the perk while mantaining the double spray usage feature.

 

Motorboating: Like Lead Foot, all it needed was the extra % push to make it viable. With the upcoming buff, we can hopefully expect to outspeed neutral Water Speed Jason's and get to the exit as soon as possible before Jason notices and morphs.

 

My Dad's a Cop: Don't know why the perk got nerfed but I don't think it's going to hurt it that much. It still has a pretty high percentage and it's supposed to be a situational but useful perk. No changes honestly

 

Nerves of Steel: Good perk and pretty balanced. Maybe make it where you can see your stamina in full fear but no changes needed.

 

Night Owl: While it's pretty crazy that the max percentage is 60% It's still not a very acceptable perk but it isn't bad either. It needs one more bonus to give it that slight viability push.

IDEA TO BUFF: Make it where your counselor doesn't react when the power goes off.

 

Potent Ranger: Also one of the worst perks in the game. Why give more damage to Tommy when he already has 10 strength? without that perk he can still 2 hit Jason's mask with a machete or non-stun axe swings. This needs different bonuses in general, It should be a perk to make Tommy Jarvis even more powerful(not damage wise he already is lol)

IDEA TO BUFF: Change the bonus from More Damage as Tommy to 0-15% Fear reduction and impossible to reach max fear as Tommy(you still can reach lv3 fear but not lv4 fear where you lose your HUD and screen blacks out.) WIth this, Tommy players will feel more comformable about hunting Jason down and helping the others without getting much fear.

 

Preparedness: Good perk. No changes at all.

 

Psychic: This pretty much allows you to quickly communicate with others in game chat once the game starts. However, the voice range increase is pretty useless and doesn't really help you much.

IDEA TO BUFF: Change the voice range increased to 0-10% fear reduction. With this it'll become the Walkie-Talkie version of Preparedness.

 

Pyro: One of the worst perks in the game. Seeing Jason for a couple of seconds more in the map with Flare guns is not going to help you at all lol.

IDEA TO BUFF: Also makes you spawn with a Flare Gun. Automatically makes it a decent perk if they do this.

 

Quiet Swimmer: I don't know how to start.. this perk is only useful if you want to steal the boat if Jason manages to drown counselors and morphs away. I guess you can use it on Pinehurst? But why use that when you can use the upcoming 35% swim speed and less stamina reduction Aquanaut perk? it's also getting nerfed when it's already one of the worst perks in the game. 

IDEA TO BUFF: Change the sense reduction to sense distance decreased while in the water and change from less noise in the water to no noise generated while normal swimming (You still make noise if you fast swim) This is the only way to make this perk good, by making it a stealthy version of Aquanaut.

 

Restful: I legit don't have a clue if this perk makes a difference or not.. Please inform me lol but judging on what it does on paper, It seems pretty decent enough.. I still think Marathon alone outclasses it though

 

Scout: In my opinion this is the worst perk in the game.. If you compare this with other perks it's just wow how did they even not argue when this perk was made. Can be easily fixed though

IDEA TO BUFF: Aside from trap escape bonus, add where you can place down and disable traps faster! Also increase the percentage from 15% to 25%. This would motivate the players to place down more traps without going through that awfully long animation of arming it.

 

Slugger: Don't think this perk needs any changes as well, even though it's weird that a perk that lets you spawn with a bat grants you more damage and less stun chance.. lol still good though for the Battle Chads

 

Sneaky: It works but it isn't working as intended.. once you finish the animation with sneaky, your character goes into a weird walking animation for like a second so you can't really move for a bit. Hopefully they fix that. It's also not really Sneaky when your character makes noise when you are going through a window..

IDEA TO BUFF: Make it where it mutes any window related sounds(opening,going through it, and stepping out of the window where it makes a THUD sound)

 

Spacial Awareness: Really useless perk. While it's nice to somewhat lower the RNG of tripping, it still feels pretty incomplete to me like Ice Cold. I rather use other perks that help me on other areas to survive longer.

IDEA TO BUFF: Increase the benefit from 25% to 50%.

 

Speed Demon: Working as intended. No changes needed.

 

Sucker Punch: One of the best perks in the game right next to Medic. It's already easy enough to stun Jason due to everyone having the same stun chance(Really? Deborah having the same stun chance as Buggzy?) but with this perk it just makes it easier. a 25% Sucker Punch makes an Axe guaranteed stun and wrench stun 90% of the time. If you pair this perk up with Swift Attacker,  You are gonna give Jason a tough time assuming you know how to combat lol. If you stick with others with the same perks, Jason is gonna have a bad time.

IDEA TO NERF: Make Strength calculate Stun Chance and change it from 25% to 15% to ultimately lessen the stun fests.

 

Swift Attacker: Definetly working as intended. No changes needed. The reason why this perk overshadows the others is because you can stun Jason easily as it is and the other perks are just badly made.

 

Teamwork: Same reason with Friendship, It's only for coordinated teams who tend to stick together. Don't think it's bad since it's a team-specific perk

 

Thick Skinned: Overall well balanced perk. A bit overshadowed by the current Medic but still good nonetheless

anyone remember the vanilla Thick Skinned days? haha...

 

Thrasher: The perk for counselor's who just want to go ham on Jason with an axe! The problem is actually finding an axe...

IDEA TO BUFF: Spawn with an Axe

 

Tinker: Once again one of the worst perks in the game. Increasing your repair speed will only be worse because you'll tend to mess up more often and that's what we tend to avoid and it's also useless on high repair counselors because they can already repair lightning fast. Can be improved.

IDEA TO BUFF: Make it where it makes the skill check zones bigger by 0-5%. Definetly nerf base 2 repair first though.

The perks are perfect at the moment some are of course more useless than other like any game, their might be some problems when we get the legendary perks though

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5 hours ago, anon said:

The perks are perfect at the moment some are of course more useless than other like any game, their might be some problems when we get the legendary perks though

Some of course are perfectly balanced but it’s not ok to have around 25 perks useless

Legendary perks are just gonna throw off balance even more imo

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Nearly all the perks in the game need buffs, excluding meta perks as theyre in a  good place. But if other perks are going to be buffed the game needs changing cause no matter what alot of the "useless" perks will always be useless until there's gameplay that makes them useful, and because jason is broken you literally need medic (for those silly amount of knives), swift attacker (to somewhat counter his stupid grab range), sucker punch (because half the time stuns don't work due to hit detection) and thick skin (because there's not enough med sprays to deal with jason and his traps) marathon (because he's too fast and any low stam slow counselor is as good as dead)
aside from that the only other perks i see as useful are my dads a cop, and the epic fear perks for jennys no fear build. everything else can be removed and not have the gameplay impacted at all.

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5 hours ago, anon said:

The perks are perfect at the moment some are of course more useless than other like any game, their might be some problems when we get the legendary perks though

Honestly man did you have to quote the whole post? Why would you do this? 

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Revamping perks is something quite a few of us have discussed ad nauseum. @AldermachXI and I have wrote quite a few ways things could be improved. @Tommy86 makes some excellent points why there are issues with perks. WE KNOW what is wrong with the system. The devs know too; frankly, because we don't shut up about it for long. Based on the business as usual information Shifty has passed along regarding legendary perks (and the comical nerfs they gave some unused perks), it is quite clear the devs exist well outside the metagame.

In regards to the poll. No, the current perks don't need to be balanced. The whole system needs to be re-looked at and serious changes made to a large portion of it. The realistic answer is that "if you polish a turd, it's still a turd." ALL the perks should be meaningful in some fashion that someone might choose them.

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This is why I think a pyramid would be better, it doesn't get rid of the shitty perks, but they will get used to acquire a single meta perk at the top. Six perks three useless ones, two useful, and one meta. 

It would allow counselor to fill more specific roles as well. Stealth, medic, driver, prankster, goon. 

But alas others have tried and failed to reach the devs, so what chance does an idea that gives counselor more perks have. It really is to bad, as it would require lots of experiments to fined the perfect pyramids. 

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@NekoJubei

Looks like you put a lot of work into this. Don't you think this should've waited until AFTER we get the legendary perks? I'm sure most of this will remain necessary changes, but we don't know how much they're going to change with the update.

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25 minutes ago, Slasher_Clone said:

This is why I think a pyramid would be better, it doesn't get rid of the shitty perks, but they will get used to acquire a single meta perk at the top. Six perks three useless ones, two useful, and one meta. 

It would allow counselor to fill more specific roles as well. Stealth, medic, driver, prankster, goon. 

But alas others have tried and failed to reach the devs, so what chance does an idea that gives counselor more perks have. It really is to bad, as it would require lots of experiments to fined the perfect pyramids. 

I like that idea.  It gives incentive to leveling up...what a concept!

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Yeah every fifty levels you unlock the next step in the pyramid, or thirty levels could work if fifty is to far. That way at level one hundred or level sixty, you end up being better than you where at the start, getting the feeling of earning it.

Each pyramid could be unlocked separately as well, by completing objectives a set number of times, similar to what @Alkavian suggested. 

It really is a missed opportunity for the engine upgrade, but that doesn't mean, one of the suggestions won't finally wake them up.

And thank you @gtdjlocker311.

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17 minutes ago, gtdjlocker311 said:

I like that idea.  It gives incentive to leveling up...what a concept!

Ikr. Levelling up in a game for meaningful benefits...who woud've thought...

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Swimming perks are useless.  There is almost zero reason to ever go for a swim.  On almost every map it's instant death.   They may just as well remove them entirely because there is zero reason to ever use them. 

The other problem is there are several perks not worth equipping on top of that.  Easy Listening. Heavy Sleeper.  Grinder.  Just to name a few. 

Buffing certain perks won't make any difference as there will never be a reason anyone will equip them over Marathon, Thick Skin unless the nerf those perks into the ground.  Which will just lead to a huge amount of backlash. 

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2 hours ago, SirMang said:

Buffing certain perks won't make any difference as there will never be a reason anyone will equip them over Marathon, Thick Skin unless the nerf those perks into the ground.  Which will just lead to a huge amount of backlash. 

I don't feel this is accurate as what gets equipped by any player is really going to be reflective of their play style. The current "meta" perks are fine where they are but running Thick Skin, Medic, and an offensive 3rd doesn't really guarantee anything. 

I got a good chunk of time in last night in QP and survived alone as AJ 4 matches in a row. 3 times by boat and 1 by car. I was using Preparedness, Lone Wolf, and NoS. 

I use these over the most commonly equipped perks because it makes a difference, a huge difference.

I'd like to to see the development of stealth based gameplay in F13 because I think the current, top perks encourage sloppy gameplay. A bit of variety would be welcome. 

But, just my opinion.

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