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Worried about the Salt Mines

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When The Salty Mines appears, it's over to leave during the match. Developers have not apparently taken into account the situation when there is a cheater in the match, others can not go out to not get Salt status. So we will play with cheaters  :)

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I told them about the situation the moment the news was released. Salt mines is a bad idea, and it is a bad idea in general to punish your playerbase. It is simply a bandaid for lack of dedicated servers because the only time it really matters is when host quits, and I truly believe this temp solution will do more harm than good.

Majority of counselors quit because of teaming, majority of Jasons quit because they are relentlessly bullied. A good Jason will put up a fight but a newbie Jason has absolutely no chance, and the punishment is compounded when you have low level Jason vs high level counselors. Same hopeless situation if you are in a lobby where a counselor is aim blocking you in a room with no other exit (you can’t actually do anything other than quit).

IMO it is truly a stupid idea to dish out salt points for quitting, that won’t solve the root of the problems for either side. They keep saying that this won’t impact the general player except they are ignoring the fact that players experience problems like these far more than they think. Jason is in no way disadvantaged by a counselor quitting except if it is host, so why is that any incentive to punish at all.

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On 4/29/2018 at 11:48 AM, HowAreYa said:

Sometimes leaving (as host) is justly, for example when people are teaming with Jason. Will we get punished for this as well because it is justly?

teaming is not considered cheating anymore. sadly. was expected tbh, as a small team just can´t handle all the reports. and they knew this when they accepted to make PvP in order to get the franchise rights.

@Tommy86 punishing unfair players is a must in a PvP. Not doing so is also a reason the player base got so small. People quit on PC. A ton of them. It´s not just a bandaid for dedicated servers. We don´t have this issue on PC and people still quit like there is no tomorrow.

They need to handle with the other cheaters also. Saltmines are a first step, nothing more. But i can´t see anything done after it tbh. Just due to the lack of manpower.

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23 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

@Tommy86 punishing unfair players is a must in a PvP. Not doing so is also a reason the player base got so small. People quit on PC. A ton of them. It´s not just a bandaid for dedicated servers. We don´t have this issue on PC and people still quit like there is no tomorrow.

It has nothing to do with fairness, I don’t understand how you are even thinking in those terms. A player will quit either because they aren’t having fun, or because they want to troll. That’s nothing to do with fairness or balance. 

If someone quits and they aren’t host, it doesn’t impact Jason in any way other than losing some meaningless points. If Jason quits, that’s the optimal result for counselors anyway. If anyone quits when they are host however, that impacts everyone since it shuts down the lobby forcing everyone to find a new one. That’s really the only thing that matters, and which dedicated servers are meant to fix.

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@Tommy86 A little newsflash from reality on PC: People will quit because they are not jason. People will quit because they wanna deny you xp. People will quit if you don´t play their way. People will quit during grab or even before. Heck some even because you talk as Jason, wich is obviously a crime for some....

A punishment for leavers is needed. It happens. A lot. I had days where i made like 15-20 screenshots per day with leavers right at match start. A lot of them even 2 leaving instanly. As said only a first step, but thinking people only leave when others play unfair or it is reasonable, is beyond gullible.

Also why even discuss something that is a fkn standard for decent PvP´s? wtf?

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28 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

A little newsflash from reality on PC: People will quit because they are not jason. People will quit because they wanna deny you xp. People will quit if you don´t play their way. People will quit during grab or even before. Heck some even because you talk as Jason, wich is obviously a crime for some....

Which is what to do with fairness? If someone quits when they aren't Jason, how does that impact you? Answer - it doesn't. If someone quits to deny you XP, how does that impact you other than losing a small amount of meaningless points? It doesn't. In fact it is optimal since now there is 1 less counselor in the match without you even doing anything.

Meanwhile you are making 15-20 screenshots of leavers for what reason? Seriously wtf is the point? Nothing impacts a match other than the host quitting, that is the main issue as it has always been because it shuts down lobbies. Until dedicated servers are here that will simply keep happening no matter what kind of punishment is in store for those who host quit. Most people who play this game don't care about any repercussions like that, they will very simply move on to the next game.

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The main thing about any "prisoner's island" concept is that it's moreso a publicity stunt rather than an actually useful tool. For starters, if the developers make it so that you have to get a lot of salt for it to mean anything, then most people will never go to the salt mines.

Why it's useful is because it gives the public the idea their game is finally being policed. People like knowing that there's something out there to help put toxic people in their place, so even if the system ends up being very lenient it's still nice to know such a program exists. I can imagine there are a few hotheaded individuals who'll insta-rage quit immediately, despite the threat of the salt mines, and its these individuals who the system is targeting: the really obnoxious ones. Otherwise the salt mines will probably not do very much, but considering how people have clamored for something to put toxic individuals in their place, this would be a good PR move.

Unless the system makes it so it's very easy to have someone end up in the Salt Mines, but at that point almost everyone will then be eating salt, so it still wouldn't matter in the long run.

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9 minutes ago, Trident77 said:

The main thing about any "prisoner's island" concept is that it's moreso a publicity stunt rather than an actually useful tool.

Yes this is exactly right. A publicity stunt and a bandaid for the real problem.

9 minutes ago, Trident77 said:

Why it's useful is because it gives the public the idea their game is finally being policed. People like knowing that there's something out there to help put toxic people in their place, so even if the system ends up being very lenient it's still nice to know such a program exists.

It may provide some comfort for those who are troubled about the situation but it is not really useful, it is a fake kind of useful that realistically won't make any meaningful difference. You can quote me on this when the update comes out and people are still experiencing the exact same kind of problems as they are now. It's not going to change anything, all it enables is the possibility to punish innocent players.

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On 4/29/2018 at 4:48 AM, HowAreYa said:

Sometimes leaving (as host) is justly, for example when people are teaming with Jason. Will we get punished for this as well because it is justly?

Just wait a few minutes (till the match is over) then leave. How hard is it to wait?

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29 minutes ago, Tommy86 said:

Yes this is exactly right. A publicity stunt and a bandaid for the real problem.

It may provide some comfort for those who are troubled about the situation but it is not really useful, it is a fake kind of useful that realistically won't make any meaningful difference. You can quote me on this when the update comes out and people are still experiencing the exact same kind of problems as they are now. It's not going to change anything, all it enables is the possibility to punish innocent players.

If it won't make any difference for the salty, it won't make any difference for the not salty. It can't be both useless and a punishment at the same time. Sorry but your not making any sense.

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3 hours ago, blablabla said:

When The Salty Mines appears, it's over to leave during the match. Developers have not apparently taken into account the situation when there is a cheater in the match, others can not go out to not get Salt status. So we will play with cheaters  :)

I think they have. The idea is that, yes-- at first, we will all have to play with cheaters, trolls, teamers, etc. (But we do anyway, right?) The only difference now is that we can quit without repercussion. BUT -- when we do that, most of these jerks end up winning. I've played with several of these guys who LIVE to hear people complaining about their gameplay and their end goal is to see how many they can "make quit." To them, a full QP room is like a hive full of honey, ripe for the picking. And whenever we leave the game because of them, it's like the bees fly right over and HAND them the honey.

I won't do that. I'll keep playing with them and reporting them until they receive their sentence. Yes, it will take a while, but things will likely have to get worse before they get better.

3 hours ago, Tommy86 said:

I told them about the situation the moment the news was released. Salt mines is a bad idea, and it is a bad idea in general to punish your playerbase. It is simply a bandaid for lack of dedicated servers because the only time it really matters is when host quits, and I truly believe this temp solution will do more harm than good.

Majority of counselors quit because of teaming, majority of Jasons quit because they are relentlessly bullied. A good Jason will put up a fight but a newbie Jason has absolutely no chance, and the punishment is compounded when you have low level Jason vs high level counselors. Same hopeless situation if you are in a lobby where a counselor is aim blocking you in a room with no other exit (you can’t actually do anything other than quit).

IMO it is truly a stupid idea to dish out salt points for quitting, that won’t solve the root of the problems for either side. They keep saying that this won’t impact the general player except they are ignoring the fact that players experience problems like these far more than they think. Jason is in no way disadvantaged by a counselor quitting except if it is host, so why is that any incentive to punish at all.

I really don't see how this correlates to dedicated servers in the least. For some reason, console dedicated servers have become the Donald Trump of the F13 game world. Anything people don't like, it's related to dedicated servers in some way. I really think the Salt Mines would have happened even if we had universal dedicated servers now.

As to your point of "newbie jasons quitting," I understand your point. I think the devs need to add a warning page for all new players about the consequences of chronic quitting. Something like, "Please be aware that there are punishments for continued multiplayer game quitting. If you need practice, we encourage gameplay with Offline Bots or simply sticking through your matches to hone your skills, as well as watching gameplay videos." If I were a newbie player, I'd certainly appreciate the advice. 

16 minutes ago, Trident77 said:

The main thing about any "prisoner's island" concept is that it's moreso a publicity stunt rather than an actually useful tool. For starters, if the developers make it so that you have to get a lot of salt for it to mean anything, then most people will never go to the salt mines.

Why it's useful is because it gives the public the idea their game is finally being policed. People like knowing that there's something out there to help put toxic people in their place, so even if the system ends up being very lenient it's still nice to know such a program exists. I can imagine there are a few hotheaded individuals who'll insta-rage quit immediately, despite the threat of the salt mines, and its these individuals who the system is targeting: the really obnoxious ones. Otherwise the salt mines will probably not do very much, but considering how people have clamored for something to put toxic individuals in their place, this would be a good PR move.

Unless the system makes it so it's very easy to have someone end up in the Salt Mines, but at that point almost everyone will then be eating salt, so it still wouldn't matter in the long run.

That's a big "if". We can't make judgments on a system that hasn't even launched yet based on our own assumptions of how it will work. And again, they HAVE made it to where one may escape the Salt Mines. They're not being damned to an eternity in Hell. It's a prison sentence with early release for good behavior.

All in all -- as a man is innocent until proven guilty, let's also trust the devs in each incident until which point they show us our trust is misplaced.  Plus, I have to bring up @pApA^LeGBa's excellent point:

1 hour ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Also why even discuss something that is a fkn standard for decent PvP´s? wtf?

This is the standard. A banishment policy for blatant disregard of the rules HAS to be in place as it is for other PvP games. It's silly to complain or see conspiracies when this one follows suit and does the same.

Anyway, that's what dumb ol' me thinks.

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50 minutes ago, pro5pt0 said:

Just wait a few minutes (till the match is over) then leave. How hard is it to wait?

Why would I waste my time? It just makes no sense.

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45 minutes ago, BrokenGrabJsonOP said:

I am more worried about people who will disconnect his ethernet cable just to rage quit without being in the salt mines

The devs have already stated that if a trend is seen - such as one pulling out their internet connection - that they will end up gaining salt. So while it may be good for a few matches...it will not be something that can be used frequently without repercussion. 

 

You all have horrible experiences with QP on PC it seems. Do you not have friends? Belong to any groups? I haven't played with strangers in QP (aside from the occasional 1 or 2 people) in a long time. Granted I am not familiar with how consoles work, but when it comes to PC game play I just don't have these issues because I play with friends and/or group members .When I started I obviously did not have any friends and pretty much hated the game because all I heard were homophobic and racist people, but then I met a few good players..who introduced me to more players..who introduced me to more players etc etc.. 

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3 hours ago, Tommy86 said:

Which is what to do with fairness? If someone quits when they aren't Jason, how does that impact you? Answer - it doesn't. If someone quits to deny you XP, how does that impact you other than losing a small amount of meaningless points? It doesn't. In fact it is optimal since now there is 1 less counselor in the match without you even doing anything.

Meanwhile you are making 15-20 screenshots of leavers for what reason? Seriously wtf is the point? Nothing impacts a match other than the host quitting, that is the main issue as it has always been because it shuts down lobbies. Until dedicated servers are here that will simply keep happening no matter what kind of punishment is in store for those who host quit. Most people who play this game don't care about any repercussions like that, they will very simply move on to the next game.

 it is stated a bannable offence by the devs. and a fkn standard. nothing to discuss here why this needs to be punished. dunno about consoles but on PC  even half decent PvP games do punish match leavers.

So many games down the drain  because people realized one or even two left right at start and started leaving also.

Like in a board game. You don´t just start over if things don´t go your way. Leaving is basically flippig the table when playing boardgames.

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On 4/29/2018 at 5:31 PM, The Tommy said:

Maybe after they credit the players for killing Jason when he quits while being killed. And by your logic the counselors should get points for defeating Jason even if the Jason player quits at the beginning of the match or whenever. 

So you are one of the guys who quit before Jason kills you haha! , and no my logic is that I’d you quit you get the short hand of the stick not rewarded smartass 

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2 minutes ago, NytmereZ said:

So you are one of the guys who quit before Jason kills you haha! , and no my logic is that I’d you quit you get the short hand of the stick not rewarded smartass 

How in the hell did you derive that out of that quote? Talk about reaching ...

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2 hours ago, NytmereZ said:

So you are one of the guys who quit before Jason kills you haha! , and no my logic is that if you quit you get the short hand of the stick not rewarded smartass 

Fixed your quote so it could English. I'm sorry you could not comprehend my counterpoint, so you got triggered and just made something up about me. 

1 hour ago, pro5pt0 said:

How in the hell did you derive that out of that quote? Talk about reaching ...

No lie. Thank you. 

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On 4/29/2018 at 4:11 PM, NytmereZ said:

Just walk away and leave it going if you can’t wait until the game is over, we need salt mines, to many people are very good a quting just when you grab them... vanishing into thin air... happened to me in a room full of 150’s (I’m 150 as well)

The utter embarrassment. I’ve seen way too many level 150 players behaving like twats as both Jason and counselor

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On 5/1/2018 at 8:16 AM, Cokeyskunk said:

I think they have. The idea is that, yes-- at first, we will all have to play with cheaters, trolls, teamers, etc. (But we do anyway, right?) The only difference now is that we can quit without repercussion. BUT -- when we do that, most of these jerks end up winning. I've played with several of these guys who LIVE to hear people complaining about their gameplay and their end goal is to see how many they can "make quit." To them, a full QP room is like a hive full of honey, ripe for the picking. And whenever we leave the game because of them, it's like the bees fly right over and HAND them the honey.

I won't do that. I'll keep playing with them and reporting them until they receive their sentence. Yes, it will take a while, but things will likely have to get worse before they get better.

I really don't see how this correlates to dedicated servers in the least. For some reason, console dedicated servers have become the Donald Trump of the F13 game world. Anything people don't like, it's related to dedicated servers in some way. I really think the Salt Mines would have happened even if we had universal dedicated servers now.

As to your point of "newbie jasons quitting," I understand your point. I think the devs need to add a warning page for all new players about the consequences of chronic quitting. Something like, "Please be aware that there are punishments for continued multiplayer game quitting. If you need practice, we encourage gameplay with Offline Bots or simply sticking through your matches to hone your skills, as well as watching gameplay videos." If I were a newbie player, I'd certainly appreciate the advice. 

That's a big "if". We can't make judgments on a system that hasn't even launched yet based on our own assumptions of how it will work. And again, they HAVE made it to where one may escape the Salt Mines. They're not being damned to an eternity in Hell. It's a prison sentence with early release for good behavior.

All in all -- as a man is innocent until proven guilty, let's also trust the devs in each incident until which point they show us our trust is misplaced.  Plus, I have to bring up @pApA^LeGBa's excellent point:

This is the standard. A banishment policy for blatant disregard of the rules HAS to be in place as it is for other PvP games. It's silly to complain or see conspiracies when this one follows suit and does the same.

Anyway, that's what dumb ol' me thinks.

You have the best forum signature on the forums. 

Keep in mind I could be bias due to the fact I LOVE coca-cola, and I am a animal lover :) 

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28 minutes ago, Ghostboy20 said:

To all worried about the salt mines, it's nice

 

Lmao THIS!

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8 minutes ago, Ghostboy20 said:

I love salt, it makes my day! 

I put that shit on everything!

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23 minutes ago, jameson87 said:

I put that shit on everything!

Ever had salt on salt with extra salt on the side?

FflohQi.gif

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