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People really think a simple game like F13 can't be competitive when there's been other games like Left 4 Dead, Evolve, and hell, even party games like SMASH BROTHERS are and have been competitive?

News flash, a game just needs players on both sides to be competitive for it to be "competitive".

 

Find a competitive Jason player that wants to win and knows what they're doing and how to play. Now find a team of competitive counselors that want to win and know what they're doing. Whu-lah! You just now created a competitive match where both sides want to win and best each other. Have fun...

2 minutes ago, MichaelMemers said:

There are too many uncontrolled elements for a game like this to be competitive. Even right down to where the objectives, items and counselors spawn. Competitive games are always symmetrical, balanced games where everything can be accounted for, like fighting games or fast arena shooters where the map is the same everytime. Fighting games being the definitive competitive genre.

Stop. Go watch those competitive tournament Super Smash Bros matches where the balance is a joke and you usually see the same consistent "meta" characters. Also stages are always severely different from one another and not the same.

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Most serious Smash tournaments are restricted to specific stages to try to keep it balanced, with plenty of characters being banned and all randomized stage elements, such as items dropping in, being disabled. That's the sort of thing you have to do to make it believably competitive. You can have a fancy tournament built around the base Smash Bros. experience but absolutely nobody is going to take it seriously or compare it to other fighting games.

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8 minutes ago, MichaelMemers said:

Most serious Smash tournaments are restricted to specific stages to try to keep it balanced, with plenty of characters being banned and all randomized stage elements, such as items dropping in, being disabled. That's the sort of thing you have to do to make it believably competitive. You can have a fancy tournament built around the base Smash Bros. experience but absolutely nobody is going to take it seriously or compare it to other fighting games.

No one is going to take it seriously over other fighting games because of all those rules? Do you even watch all the big FGC tournaments on Twitch or Youtube? Smash is like one of the biggest competitive FG games around. The only game bigger is probably Street Fighter but that's it. Smash gets over 1000 entrants at tourneys and is extremely big regardless of all the "rules" they have and it being a "party" game. Go do some research and learn how big the competitive scene of Smash is for fighting games before you say silly things like "nobody is going to take it seriously or compare it to other fighting games". It's literally the second biggest Fighting Game competitive community.

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Just now, Mr. Blonde said:

No one is going to take it seriously over other fighting games because of all those rules? Do you even watch all the big FGC tournaments on Twitch or Youtube? Smash is like one of the biggest competitive FG games around. The only game bigger is probably Street Fighter but that's it. Smash gets over 100 entrants at tourneys and is extremely big regardless of all the "rules" they have and it being a "party" game. Go do some research and learn how big the competitive scene of Smash is for fighting games before you say silly things like "nobody is going to take it seriously or compare it to other fighting games".

Yeah, casuals love to watch Smash tournaments because it's easier to understand and they probably play it, whereas they probably don't play more serious fighting games. It brings in a lot of money, it's no wonder FGC would run tournaments for it. But no competitive fighting game would take it seriously without serious controls.

You want to know why F13 can never be competitive? The most solid example would be that sometimes someone spawns on top of a car with all 3 parts needed in two small, easily searched cabins and you get the car running before Jason can morph to the phone, trap it, morph to the other car, trap it and then morph to you. He isn't stopping that car without shift. There's too much randomization for the players' skill to control what is happening, on both sides. Meanwhile in a fighting game you can avoid ever getting hit if you are good enough.

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1 minute ago, WashingtonJones said:

F13 is more like gambling than competitive play. 

Depends on the kind of gambling. You can gamble on a 100% skilled based game with no surprises.

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Just now, MichaelMemers said:

Depends on the kind of gambling. You can gamble on a 100% skilled based game with no surprises.

I'm not talking about placing bets on a match. The game itself is a gamble.

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54 minutes ago, Mr. Blonde said:

 

 

Find a competitive Jason player that wants to win and knows what they're doing and how to play. Now find a team of competitive counselors that want to win and know what they're doing. Whu-lah! You just now created a competitive match where both sides want to win and best each other. Have fun...

 

tenor.gif

 

Wouldn't that be considered just a typical game then... 

I think everyone who plays as Jason always wants to win and that everyone who plays as a counselor wants to survive.

I saw an earlier post that used a point system towards completing objectives as a counselor and even then that just sounds too tedious to keep track of. 

Especially with all the different factors that goes into this game. From connection issues to buggy gameplay. 

The "competitive side" would only truly work in private match and like I said even that is extremely dependent on factors outside of our control. 

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40 minutes ago, Gummybish said:

 

 

tenor.gif

 

Wouldn't that be considered just a typical game then... 

I think everyone who plays as Jason always wants to win and that everyone who plays as a counselor wants to survive.

I saw an earlier post that used a point system towards completing objectives as a counselor and even then that just sounds too tedious to keep track of. 

Especially with all the different factors that goes into this game. From connection issues to buggy gameplay. 

The "competitive side" would only truly work in private match and like I said even that is extremely dependent on factors outside of our control. 

No. A lot of people who play F13 are just playing for fun and not competitive. If all these people were really playing "competitive" you wouldn't see mass amounts of Jason Part 7 in Quick Play games or a bunch of non-vanessa / chad / fox / etc. meta counselors. Also you need the right amount of counselor meta perks equips, and so on.

And yes, competitive F13 matches only happen in private games. QP is never competitive and more about having fun, and running any play style or tactic you want.

1 hour ago, MichaelMemers said:

Yeah, casuals love to watch Smash tournaments because it's easier to understand and they probably play it, whereas they probably don't play more serious fighting games. It brings in a lot of money, it's no wonder FGC would run tournaments for it. But no competitive fighting game would take it seriously without serious controls.

You want to know why F13 can never be competitive? The most solid example would be that sometimes someone spawns on top of a car with all 3 parts needed in two small, easily searched cabins and you get the car running before Jason can morph to the phone, trap it, morph to the other car, trap it and then morph to you. He isn't stopping that car without shift. There's too much randomization for the players' skill to control what is happening, on both sides. Meanwhile in a fighting game you can avoid ever getting hit if you are good enough.

Stop saying "more serious fighting games". What games are you even trying to say when you refer to that? Street Fighter 5, Tekken 7, DragonBall Fighter Z? Because those fighting games have laughable execution and depth when it comes to a game like Super Smash Bros. Melee. Which by the way, is the longest surviving competing fighting game ever created. Smash Melee was released in 2001 and even TODAY is still more alive than ever, has insane amounts of competition, players, viewers, and etc. No fighting game rivals Smash Melee when it comes to longevity.

And who cares if F13 has RNG elements. A lot of fighting games have RNG elements if you played them at a high level. Look at Peach Down+B in Smash, it has RNG chance to randomly pull out things like Bob-ombs, Lightsaber Sword, Stitch Face, etc. Getting any of these items can dramatically change the outcome or a match up in instantly. And it is completely random. Mr. Game & Watch Forward+B is also an RNG finisher attack, and many other characters have "RNG" moves that rely on pure luck and chance.

At the end of the day, the better player(s) will most likely still win. Consistency and skill always triumphs "RNG" in any game. It's been proven in time and time again.

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1 minute ago, Mr. Blonde said:

No. A lot of people who play F13 are just playing for fun and not competitive. If all these people were really playing "competitive" you wouldn't see mass amounts of Jason Part 7 in Quick Play games or a bunch of non-vanessa / chad / fox / etc. meta counselors. Also you need the right amount of counselor meta perks equips, and so on.

And yes, competitive F13 matches only happen in private games. QP is never competitive and more about having fun, and running any play style or tactic you want.

A private match where everyone is playing as Vanessa...even the best Jason would get stomped easily. Not very competitive, is it?

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1 minute ago, MichaelMemers said:

A private match where everyone is playing as Vanessa...even the best Jason would get stomped easily. Not very competitive, is it?

Balance has nothing to do with something being "competitive" or not. Welcome to the harsh reality of video games since the dawn of time. There's always going to be overpowered strategies or characters that are better than others. It is what it is. Go watch any fighting game tournament season recap of characters used, and you will see the same repeating offenders plague the statistics.

Luckily F13 has such a small pool of competitive players, because the balance in this game is pretty atrocious. And I'm not even talking strictly of the balance of 7 smart counselors vs 1 smart Jason, I'm also referring to the balance between the select-able counselors and Jasons. At least Gunmedia has a small starting point with remaking Part 7, but they have a long way to go if they want this game to be competitively "balanced".

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2 minutes ago, Mr. Blonde said:

Go watch any fighting game tournament season recap of characters used, and you will see the same repeating offenders plague the statistics.

Which isn't a choice in a game like this, since somebody has to be Jason.

3 minutes ago, Mr. Blonde said:

but they have a long way to go if they want this game to be competitively "balanced".

I don't think they particularly care about that. Nor does most of the playerbase. Most people don't play Vanessa.

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2 minutes ago, MichaelMemers said:

Which isn't a choice in a game like this, since somebody has to be Jason.

I don't think they particularly care about that. Nor does most of the playerbase. Most people don't play Vanessa.

Yeah, obviously. It's always the mass that does not care about competitive gaming and 80% of people that play games never play one competitive match in their life or care to.

It's just so odd that Gunmedia would try and balance Part 7 Jason. Like who cares if Part 7 Jason was competitively weak? Most of the player base is not playing this game competitively, and most people just play strictly for fun as a casual gamer. The trying to balance Part 7 Jason literally has no affect on sales and it was one of the most pointless decisions they could of made. Games that receive "balance" updates are usually games with competitive scenes and the developers want all characters to shine and be overally balanced. I just feel it was completely out of place for Gunmedia to try and pull that narrative here.

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13 minutes ago, Mr. Blonde said:

Yeah, obviously. It's always the mass that does not care about competitive gaming and 80% of people that play games never play one competitive match in their life or care to.

It's just so odd that Gunmedia would try and balance Part 7 Jason. Like who cares if Part 7 Jason was competitively weak? Most of the player base is not playing this game competitively, and most people just play strictly for fun as a casual gamer. The trying to balance Part 7 Jason literally has no affect on sales and it was one of the most pointless decisions they could of made. Games that receive "balance" updates are usually games with competitive scenes and the developers want all characters to shine and be overally balanced. I just feel it was completely out of place for Gunmedia to try and pull that narrative here.

Part 7 is too weak even for casual play if the counselors have any idea what they are doing. He feels awful to use.

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Every game is competitive in a literal sense. That's what a GAME is - you're competing against other players, a team, AI, a deck of cards, etc...So yes, Friday the 13th is competitive just like every other game on the planet is. Players are most definitely competing to survive or kill. It's a "competitive" game in that sense. But so is pretty much every other game.

Competitive gaming implies games that are balanced and polished enough to be deemed systematically fair for all competitors. F13 fails on all those fronts. Look up real competitive games and get an idea of what I'm talking about...(League of Legends, Dota, R6 Siege, CS:GO, Overwatch)

- First, it's an asymmetric game. That basically eliminates it from the get go.

- It's not balanced.

- It's not polished...Could you imagine holding a "competitive" event of sorts and the Jason player getting bugged constantly? Only being able to grab until some kind sport hits him so he regains control...

This game isn't intended to be competitive and there's no real need to attempt to balance the game as though it is. I could go on and on about all the good things F13 is. But that's for a different post..

 

 

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5 minutes ago, MichaelMemers said:

Part 7 is too weak even for casual play if the counselors have any idea what they are doing. He feels awful to use.

There's no such thing as too weak for casual play. What? That makes no sense. You could theoretically have Jason Part 7 be SO WEAK that he has a 0% win rate at the highest level vs a team of counselors that know how to play. Little Timmy who just bought F13 and wants to play his favorite character which happens to be Jason Part 7 DOESN'T CARE how balanced his choice of character is. He just wants to play and have fun. This is the same thought process of how 95% of people that play any video games do.

Look at the low tiers in Smash Brothers, DotA, etc. some of these characters are just fundamentally bad or too niche heavy as situational picks that they have NO PLACE in the competitive scene. But guess what happens when you play Quick Play and casual matches on the internet? You run into thousands of players that use these characters because they don't care and are playing the game for fun.

Do you understand now? Literally it made no sense for Gunmedia to try to balance Jason Part 7 or any counselor in this game when 95% of the player base strictly plays for fun in non-competitive settings.

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2 minutes ago, Mr. Blonde said:

Little Timmy who just bought F13 and wants to play his favorite character which happens to be Jason Part 7 DOESN'T CARE how balanced his choice of character is. He just wants to play and have fun.

Little Timmy is unlikely to have fun when he's getting bullied even by non-meta teams when he's supposed to be in the power role. There's a reason that you see people playing as AJ even though she's low tier but you almost never see a Part 7 Jason. He's nonviable.

Also ... are you complaining that they're giving Part 7 a buff?

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1 minute ago, MichaelMemers said:

Little Timmy is unlikely to have fun when he's getting bullied even by non-meta teams when he's supposed to be in the power role. There's a reason that you see people playing as AJ even though she's low tier but you almost never see a Part 7 Jason. He's nonviable.

Also ... are you complaining that they're giving Part 7 a buff?

Dude, do you not read the forums here? There's countless of casuals that say they win matches in Quick Play using Jason Part 7 and never run into any trouble or struggle. Stop. Little Timmy has a WAY HIGHER chance of running into other casuals who are playing the game for fun than running into a super small minority "meta competitive players".

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Just now, Mr. Blonde said:

Dude, do you not read the forums here? There's countless of casuals that say they win matches in Quick Play using Jason Part 7 and never run into any trouble or struggle. Stop. Little Timmy has a WAY HIGHER chance of running into other casuals who are playing the game for fun than running into a super small minority "meta competitive players".

Other casuals can still stomp Part 7. He's that weak. You will get games where absolutely no one has a mic, nobody has any idea what they are doing, almost everyone is playing as Shelly or something, or the spawns just incredibly favour Jason, but it must not happen all that often considering that you can go a dozen or more lobbies without seeing a single person select Part 7, let alone actually get to play against him.

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5 minutes ago, MichaelMemers said:

Other casuals can still stomp Part 7. He's that weak. You will get games where absolutely no one has a mic, nobody has any idea what they are doing, almost everyone is playing as Shelly or something, or the spawns just incredibly favour Jason, but it must not happen all that often considering that you can go a dozen or more lobbies without seeing a single person select Part 7, let alone actually get to play against him.

I could literally sign on F13 right now, play some games with Jason Part 7 and probably lobby wipe in Quick Play. The casuals players out number the competitive players in a 9:1 ratio. That means for every ONE competitive player you run across, there will be 10 more casual players you run into. Now you do the math for little Timmy who is playing a bunch of Quick Play matches for fun each week... He's more likely to have fun and a blast playing in Quick Play with Part 7 than he will running into try hard competitive parties in Quick Play. And even if he does, they happen once in a blue moon. It wouldn't happen literally every other game of Quick Play search. You are SEVERELY understanding the huge casual appeal this game has and the amount of players who just play F13 for purely fun with their friends and nothing more.

I'm literally watching a streamer on twitch RIGHT NOW lobby wipe with a Part 7 Jason in Quick Play! Come on, dude.

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What is your definition of try hard competitive? When I hear that, I think of a team full of Vanessa players running meta perks and probably using third-party voice communication as well. That will stomp any Jason. You don't need that to stomp Part 7. A handful of players who have a basic idea of what they are doing and aren't playing as meta characters can dominate him easily. If Part 7 were as viable in quick play as you think, you'd see him more often.

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...

7wXOJgS.jpg

This happens daily in Quick Play. Sorry, but it's true. Too many casual players out there and people who play for fun. Time to accept it and move on. "Balance" is pointless and moot when it comes to casuals playing games for fun.

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3 minutes ago, Mr. Blonde said:

...

7wXOJgS.jpg

This happens daily in Quick Play. Sorry, but it's true. Too many casual players out there and people who play for fun. Time to accept it and move on. "Balance" is pointless and moot when it comes to casuals playing games for fun.

I still don't understand why you're so hostile to the devs giving Part 7 a buff that won't even change his placement on a tier list.

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Well it's good to see some people understand. It's not a complicated thing to grasp.

1 hour ago, AldermachXI said:

- First, it's an asymmetric game. That basically eliminates it from the get go.

It is 7v1, with 7 playing as a unit against 1 who is balanced against the 7 (theoretically at least). 

1 hour ago, AldermachXI said:

- It's not polished...Could you imagine holding a "competitive" event of sorts and the Jason player getting bugged constantly? Only being able to grab until some kind sport hits him so he regains control...

Yes I can imagine because players are already doing it. No one is getting constantly bugged out during these tournaments like you're saying.

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1 hour ago, MichaelMemers said:

I still don't understand why you're so hostile to the devs giving Part 7 a buff that won't even change his placement on a tier list.

We are talking about the same person who calls for counselor buffs quite often in his threads, and when people say nope, wants to argue and say any point they make is moot. For someone who claims in this thread, balance is moot for the"casual players" he is constantly trying to change the balance against Jason for  the sake of giving the counselors "individuality". While admitting the vast majority of the player base are "casual players".

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