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Posted (edited)

I see the salt mines exactly how like how my workplace handles people being late. You get an occurance, and if the reason is understandable (e.g. a train arrived, blocking off the road while forcing you to wait until it was too late to punch in on time), it remains just that: an occurance. Anyone could lie to lessen the blows, but you get idiots every once in a while who are so hot-headed that they lack the tact to utilize this, so they get fired quickly, AKA hosts leave to screw people over by rage quitting.

Furthermore, a few occurances do nothing, yet if they're too frequent then you have a problem. Using "the train arrived" as an excuse only works for so long before the employer tells you "why don't you come to work earlier to avoid this problem?" Same thing like this game: if your connections suffers, then get better internet. If you want to leave a match, deal with the minor amount of salt you get because you leaving the room makes it so everyone has to wait longer to get a full lobby when a new lobby starts.

You could use that time in the dead counselor observation lobby doing something productive like a pushup for every minute you didn't survive in the game, working on a project for your school/workplace (in which case you really should be doing that instead of a video game), gettting a taco, etc. Leaving the dead counselor observation lobby to go play a new game does, in a way, screw over the people in the lobby you're playing with, especially if the person who replaces you ends up being an asshole.

Edit: Honestly, the whole thing about people getting mad about getting salt when they leave the dead counselor lobby seems like a non-issue. How many times have you used the dead time to go use the bathroom, get something to eat/drink, talk with friends, etc.? The purpose is to prevent people from leaving non-stop so that stable lobbies remain, and you can circumvent punishment by just waiting a few minutes to the reach the new game lobby if you completely sucked at living as a counselor.

It won't necessarily stop trolls, but it's a step in the right direction. More specifically, it'll be useful for dealing with the angry rage quitters like the host leaving or those who leave when Jason is about to murder them.

Edit 2: The strikethrough part is no longer valid since Courier just announced players who leave the lobby when they're dead will not iccur salt.

Edited by Trident77

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There has been some confusion on what "Leaving a match early" means.
To clarify, players (who are not currently hosting) will not gain any infractions for leaving a match AFTER they have been killed.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, [IllFonic]Courier said:

To be clear, players (who are not currently hosting) will not gain any infractions for leaving a match AFTER they have been killed.

Oh. Well, that invalidates parts of my earlier post then I suppose, unless it's the host. Time to do some editting...

So I'm guessing that means no mini-game you can play while dead to pass the time in the dead counselor lobby. I was hoping that, one day, a pinball machine would do that.

Edited by Trident77

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2 hours ago, bewareofbears said:

People in here are getting a head start- so much salt already. :lol:

I don't understand why either.

One of the biggest gripe a lot of people have here is that they don't feel like sticking around in spectator mode because they prefer to hurry and play another round, except most of them don't realize they're contributing to one of the main problems the lobby has. I don't know which of them could be PC players, so servers might be a picnic for them and probably doesn't affect them much, but for us console guys, it is a pain in the ass.

So you feel like leaving because you're basically being impatient. Ok? You know what happens? Another player in that lobby is likely to follow behind which of similar reasons to yours or perhaps it's more urgent (like a family emergency). Then another one will ditch the lobby. Then another one. tenor.gif?itemid=4816107

Then so on and so forth. Right after that, all you're left with is a lobby struggling to find more players or a tired host who will most likely kill the lobby because of the lack of numbers. People have the ability to keep a stabilize game, but they just don't want to have the sense to do it.

Seriously guys, if you're planning to quit all the time or if you think you're going to end up in a situation that will cause you to quit mid-game, either sort out your plans outside of gaming beforehand or don't bother turning on the game period.

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19 hours ago, Sogreth said:

Why not being able to leave when you're being killed? Jason already gets the EXP. If they want to leave and start a new game, while Jason is already getting the EXP for their death, who cares. Everyone wins.

Jason also better get a HUGE amount of "Salt" when he leaves, and even more when he leaves during a kill.

You mean leaving during a kill, the thing that makes Jason fun to play, and the main selling point as Jason, causing the model to ragdoll and the animation screw up?

You're telling me you can't wait for a ten second kill animation to finish?  Are you really THAT tryhard?

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So what about players who leave a match well after Jason has killed them and they're just spectating? Do they attain salt? Seems a bit harsh if so, since they aren't attributing to the toxicity, just eager to start a new round.

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8 minutes ago, Liquid Swordsman said:

I don't understand why either.

One of the biggest gripe a lot of people have here is that they don't feel like sticking around in spectator mode because they prefer to hurry and play another round, except most of them don't realize they're contributing to one of the main problems the lobby has. I don't know which of them could be PC players, so servers might be a picnic for them and probably doesn't affect them much, but for us console guys, it is a pain in the ass.

So you feel like leaving because you're basically being impatient. Ok? You know what happens? Another player in that lobby is likely to follow behind which of similar reasons to yours or perhaps it's more urgent (like a family emergency). Then another one will ditch the lobby. Then another one.

Then so on and so forth. Right after that, all you're left with is a lobby struggling to find more players or a tired host who will most likely kill the lobby because of the lack of numbers. People have the ability to keep a stabilize game, but they just don't want to have the sense to do it.

Seriously guys, if you're planning to quit all the time or if you think you're going to end up in a situation that will cause you to quit mid-game, either sort out your plans outside of gaming beforehand or don't bother turning on the game period.

Well, I would've agreed with you, but Courier already stated that non-host players who leave AFTER they died (and are in the dead counselor observation lobby) won't get salt. So people will leave. And there won't be as many stable lobbies since people keep leaving. And it'll continue to be a huge pain in the ass even when dedicated servers arrive.

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Perfect! Sick of sore losers leaving when I grab them. Apparently they don't see how immature they look falling like a ragdoll. ?

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22 minutes ago, Trident77 said:

Well, I would've agreed with you, but Courier already stated that non-host players who leave AFTER they died (and are in the dead counselor observation lobby) won't get salt. So people will leave. And there won't be as many stable lobbies since people keep leaving. And it'll continue to be a huge pain in the ass even when dedicated servers arrive.

Egg my face, I just caught Courier's post right after I finished replying. :P I agree, it'll still be a pain and will never stop people from leaving.

I guess the point I was coming across is that players can still keep a lobby actively going if they had the will to do so.

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I actually like this Idea! The only cons I know about this is that it would encourage trolling. Such as if you are stuck in a room with either a broken window or no windows at all and a troller locks you in, (Take XboxCriminal example,) Or if people are teaming with Jason, or have to leave while being the host. Also for Jason players: This'll encourage counselors to try to irritate Jason as much as possible to the point where they rage quit, also teabagging and taunting Jason to lead him to quit. I like this Idea, but this also encourages trolling. 

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@ShiftySamurai
It would help if there were some sort of confirmation message before the host quits. After pressing the leave match button you'd get the following "You are currently the host and leaving will end the game for the rest of the players. Are you sure you want to proceed?" If they choose yes they earn salt.

Also, how about a 1,500 EXP bonus for hosts that finish matches. That might be incentive enough for hosts to wait until matches are completed. That's way more EXP than they could have earned by starting a new game before the current one finishes.

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Salt Mines is a Bad Idea!

Are "salt mines" lobbies in lieu of dedicated servers? :angry:

Players might leave for a multitude of reasons, and it seems salt mines would be indiscriminate: 

  • What recourse do players have, when other players are using cars to purposely "betray" them and others
  • or when players, as Jason, are teaming up with counselors (friends) to sabotage and kill the rest of the lobby. 
  • Suppose a player has been jockeying for a space in another lobby that has 1-2 friends, and they finally get an invite to join.
  • And of course, some reasons can be connection issues or non-game related.

The issue is not players leaving the lobby - but rather hosts leaving the lobbies, thus ending them. Dedicated servers is the answer. Over-policing a players capacity to enter/exit lobbies could backfire.

Salt mines is not the answer. An inevitable consequence will be splintering the base of players. How many players do you anticipate inhabiting the salt mines? If it's too few, the salt mines are lifeless, and then people move on to play other games, while the pool of players in regular lobbies become smaller due to the presence of salt mines lobbies.

Similarly, Grand Theft Auto 5 has good sports/bad sports lobbies. You can earn bad sports tickets for leaving missions after they have started, or by destroying another player's personal vehicle. However, GTA5 introduced tanks and fighter jets - weaponry used to grief other players - as personal vehicles. Imagine getting killed over and over by a player in a jet, and then once you finally manage to destroy that person's jet, you receive a bad sports ticket. 

Ironically, being limited to (semi empty, no friends allowed) bad sports lobbies on GTA5  is what made me download Friday the 13th. 

 

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Salt Mines are not a replacement for Dedicated Servers.

  • If you get run over and betrayed you can leave without incurring a penalty, unless you are the host.
  • If a Jason teamer is sabotaging you, you can record video (modern consoles and PC allow for this) and send it to us at JasonKillsBugs.com.
  • Leaving is still leaving, if you are waiting to play with friends, maybe don't start a match before you are all together.
  • An occasional "I need to spllit cause someone is knocking on the door" or "My internet just went down" isn't going to put you in the Salt Mines.

Is it "splintering the player base" when the people being moved outside of the general population rarely finish games as Jason or host? I don't think so because those players being moved to the Salt Mines will have proven that they don't finish games anyway.

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2 hours ago, [IllFonic]Courier said:

There has been some confusion on what "Leaving a match early" means.
To clarify, players (who are not currently hosting) will not gain any infractions for leaving a match AFTER they have been killed.

That was a very important point, thank you for clarifying.

Though I could also understand penalizing players that leave (even after death) to decrease lobby wait times, but that would probably be going a little overboard. Regardless, this is great news and I'm sure this will help make things better while we wait for dedicated servers. As I said on the first page of this thread, you guys are fucking awesome! Keep up the good work, and please spread the praise. This is not only a great modification to the game, it was an incredible way of presenting the information.

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50 minutes ago, BlackKidFromPart5 said:

Salt Mines is a Bad Idea!

Are "salt mines" lobbies in lieu of dedicated servers? :angry:

Players might leave for a multitude of reasons, and it seems salt mines would be indiscriminate: 

  • What recourse do players have, when other players are using cars to purposely "betray" them and others
  • or when players, as Jason, are teaming up with counselors (friends) to sabotage and kill the rest of the lobby. 
  • Suppose a player has been jockeying for a space in another lobby that has 1-2 friends, and they finally get an invite to join.
  • And of course, some reasons can be connection issues or non-game related.

The issue is not players leaving the lobby - but rather hosts leaving the lobbies, thus ending them. Dedicated servers is the answer. Over-policing a players capacity to enter/exit lobbies could backfire.

Salt mines is not the answer. An inevitable consequence will be splintering the base of players. How many players do you anticipate inhabiting the salt mines? If it's too few, the salt mines are lifeless, and then people move on to play other games, while the pool of players in regular lobbies become smaller due to the presence of salt mines lobbies.

Similarly, Grand Theft Auto 5 has good sports/bad sports lobbies. You can earn bad sports tickets for leaving missions after they have started, or by destroying another player's personal vehicle. However, GTA5 introduced tanks and fighter jets - weaponry used to grief other players - as personal vehicles. Imagine getting killed over and over by a player in a jet, and then once you finally manage to destroy that person's jet, you receive a bad sports ticket. 

Ironically, being limited to (semi empty, no friends allowed) bad sports lobbies on GTA5  is what made me download Friday the 13th. 

 

If 20 people get stuck in salt mines and thus stop playing because they have no one to play with, no ones going to feel sorry for them.

GTAV's system works the same. For you to get stuck in a bad players lobby, you had to be trolling and killing other players OFTEN. It's not a one time deal.

So your post comes across as someone who trolled on GTAV and got punished and now likes to troll on F13 and is scared of being punished again.

Protip: Stop trolling.

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Dashboarding isn't an internet problem it's a game problem. My internet is great but i can still be dashboarded by the game at no fault of my own.

 

Edit: Was posting from my phone that died so never finished.

 

So dashboarding is basically like a domino effect/virus that is attached to the game servers themselves.

So Player 1 hosts a lobby in QP (or Private, doesn't matter), players 2-8 join said lobby. Maybe player 1's internet isn't great, or the people that were connected to him are in a different region. Whatever the case, players 2-8 eventually get the "connection to host lost" message. 

Okay, so now at LEAST 2 of those players if not more are basically "marked" with the stigma of the poor connection to that host even though that lobby is closed. These players have no idea they've been "marked" and so they go off to find another game.

So now I'm hosting a lobby and currently we have 6 players in game which is midway in progress. The server recognizes 2 open slots in my game and begins to try and fill those slots whether the game is already in progress or not (look at your rooms during play, you'll see spectators, they never stay when they realize game in progress but it DOES put them in.) So one of those players is player 4 from the former player 1's lobby ... the server tries to put him into my game, and because he is entering with that "mark" of his previously failed game connection it dashboards me and ends the game for everyone in my lobby.

Same works for private. You invite some friends, one of them previously lost connection to a host before you invited them, and when they join, whether mid-game or not it dashboards you.

This is not something in the host's control whatsoever. But it happens frequently enough that it would take about 1 week for players to be penalized for something they have ZERO control over as host. Dashboarding is not quitting, it's having the game itself fail on you because some other player didn't restart the game after a bad connection and it is JUST as frustrating to the host as it is to everyone who was in his lobby. 

Speaking of which, you shouldn't HAVE to restart the game every other match either, and again no host has any control over whether or not other players restart their games before joining his lobby.

So no matter what way it's worded, people are going to be punished because of an unstable game that decides to pass around one bad connection across the board, infecting as many lobbies as it can in a domino effect. 

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I actually love the idea of this currency situation and update in the game. My question is for those that don't quit. I experience a lot rather its my end or not people have terrible connection to the point where the game will kick you out and it does look like you quit the game. Does the salt get added to people then who experience this issue or do you have a way around this as well?

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2 hours ago, CDKing said:

So what about players who leave a match well after Jason has killed them and they're just spectating? Do they attain salt? Seems a bit harsh if so, since they aren't attributing to the toxicity, just eager to start a new round.

They stated on Twitter that it does not affect players who leave after they've died.

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22 hours ago, Tiffany said:

Duas atualizações em um dia me dizem que o próximo patch está próximo ...

Only April

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Well. Nice. I hope. Beeing stuck in a game with trolls is just something that will happen tough. 1000%. I can see games where jason and friends do nothing or fool around and you have to sit out the 20mins or you will get salt. i would even bet on it.

Timewasting was always a thing. And now you can´t do anything against it. Don´t get me wrong, leaver punishment is strongly needed.

I mean the system itself is a good idea. But i have seen enough timewasting to know that certain trolls will love this system.

could be avoided if reports would be reviewed properly and fast (not longer than a week). wich is impossible for a staff of  30 people with more content, engine update and dedicated servers coming.

@Sogreth Now you start defending the leavers here also? lol. And all because of a few seconds? Like 20sec max? i do not believe that you make such a fuss everytime a leaver punishment is discussed because you have to wait until the kill is over. 99.9% sure it has other reasons. If not you have a big problem with your nonexisting patience. And experience CAN be denied when leaving during animation. i had that happen already.

(Talking about steam forums, he shows hatred to everyone suggesting even mild consequences for leavers in many threads there. No matter wich method is suggested. And all only because he wants to leave as fast as possible when getting killed in a game. Lol sure)

 

@ShiftySamurai what about people who get counselor and then suicide right at start or idle for 2mins because they aren´t jason?

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21 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

People will figure out the algorithm within a week. Still a welcome addition. 

Yep, and then trolls will invent new ways to bully and push and mic spam and drive people out of games so that the people leaving will get salt built up.

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3 hours ago, gyaaft said:

It would help if there were some sort of confirmation message before the host quits. After pressing the leave match button you'd get the following "You are currently the host and leaving will end the game for the rest of the players. Are you sure you want to proceed?" If they choose yes they earn salt.

People would just close the game and restart it so they could say "my connection dropped"

3 hours ago, gyaaft said:

Also, how about a 1,500 EXP bonus for hosts that finish matches. That might be incentive enough for hosts to wait until matches are completed.

I've seen as many level 150 hosts rage quit as level 20s, XP isn't that big of an incentive to most people.

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1 hour ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Well. Nice. I hope. Beeing stuck in a game with trolls is just something that will happen tough. 1000%. I can see games where jason and friends do nothing or fool around and you have to sit out the 20mins or you will get salt. i would even bet on it.

Timewasting was always a thing. And now you can´t do anything against it. Don´t get me wrong, leaver punishment is strongly needed.

I mean the system itself is a good idea. But i have seen enough timewasting to know that certain trolls will love this system.

could be avoided if reports would be reviewed properly and fast (not longer than a week). wich is impossible for a staff of  30 people with more content, engine update and dedicated servers coming.

 

Yep, can't say and express this enough. Rooms with mic spamming of horrible things, time wasting/dancing do-nothing morons, teamers, glitch/hackers/exploit users are going to still be a thing, hell more now if anything, and leaving is the only real way to deal with it as 1 / 50 reports seem to get looked at, but now...nope. You'll actually get something against you for doing so...-_-

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3 hours ago, ShiftySamurai said:

 

  • Leaving is still leaving, if you are waiting to play with friends, maybe don't start a match before you are all together.
  • An occasional "I need to spllit cause someone is knocking on the door" or "My internet just went down" isn't going to put you in the Salt Mines.

Is it "splintering the player base" when the people being moved outside of the general population rarely finish games as Jason or host? I don't think so because those players being moved to the Salt Mines will have proven that they don't finish games anyway.

As long as the system only sweeps up the most extreme offenders, and not players who blue screen 2-3 times and answers "someone is knocking on the door" 1-3 times - daily.

 

 

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