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Treymaker

Does Jason’s grab (and the ability to break free from it) work the way it was “meant” to?

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I’ve been thinking about this one for a while and would love to hear everyone’s thoughts on this. We all know that if you get grabbed by Jason and have no pocket knife, have no teammates around to save you, and are not in a tight space that makes the grab kill impossible, you are pretty much automatically dead. Very rarely does a counselor player successfully break free from mashing the break free button (if a Jason player is mashing the grab kill button).  Getting grabbed is basically auto-death.

My question is, was it always designed to be like this? I have to think not. Just the fact that they included a break free mechanic shows that originally they meant for it to be possible to get out of Jason’s grip (more than 1% of the time). The fact that they built in + and - grip strength for the Jason’s also leans towards that. But again, with that, is it really any easier to get out of one Jason’s grip compared to another?  It’s basically auto-death with all of them. What do you guys think, was the original intent for it to be easier to get out of Jason’s grip by using the break free mechanic? If so, what screwed up?

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9 minutes ago, Treymaker said:

My question is, was it always designed to be like this?

The devs said "yes" once. I honestly think the entire Grab system is just a matter of luck, especially in open spaces.

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If you evaluate the current system it must have been designed to reward "E" macro players. I'm guessing they break free a fair amount. So from that standpoint the system is working as intended.

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23 minutes ago, Treymaker said:

My question is, was it always designed to be like this?

By the way the devs approach things it seems that "meant to be" is very loose. By the looks of things, from the beta til now, I don't think they had solid intentions for gameplay. If so I would imagine they would be fighting to bring it back to the way it was instead of working with the way it is now. No offence to the devs but I think they get too much credit for their original concepts. But to give them the benefit of the doubt, I would imagine they understood that their basic original concepts would take new shape as time went on.

Remember, the corrections for the flaws of their original design is what we have now. If they knew what would make it feel like the original but not be boring or frustrating, they'd do it.   

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I'm surprised they haven't considered having grabs become a quick time event like installing parts/fuse until he gets into rage where he has no QTE.

This would better cover the grip strength abilities for Jason's & the Counselors ability to break it. Have both Jason & the Counselor have to do a quick time event that can't be "re-rolled" and whichever finished first (outside of Jason in rage mode)  wins or escapes. It could even be 2-5 timed button presses over 4-6 seconds. Also if another counselor is within 2 meters of the person Jason grabbed the QT event is easier for Jason & harder for the Counselor (improve teamwork vs. solo). 

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That’s a good idea. I’ve just never understood why they included a break free button mechanic if you could only successfully break free like one out of every 100 times. I have to think originally they intended at least the stronger characters and characters with full health to be able to break free a lot more often than they currently can in the game.

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If I had to guess, they may have thought it was a good idea to give counselors a better than 30% chance to escape a grab. But realizing having that many counselors escaping grabs was the equivalent of 15 pocketknives. So they probably adjusted it back to a level that didn't make Jason feel like he was trying to hold on to oil wrestlers.

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Also game designers add things to their games to make you think you have a chance at something or that what you do affects the outcome. Kinda like the walk buttons at stop lights. In most cities at most times, those buttons do nothing but keep people busy pressing them thinking they're making the light change faster.

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12 minutes ago, AdmiralJT said:

If I had to guess, they may have thought it was a good idea to give counselors a better than 30% chance to escape a grab. But realizing having that many counselors escaping grabs was the equivalent of 15 pocketknives. So they probably adjusted it back to a level that didn't make Jason feel like he was trying to hold on to oil wrestlers.

This is pretty close to what my theory is as well.

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I think PC and PS4 players have a better chance of breaking free and my guess is their control layout. On Xbox I try so hard to mash fast but gets me nowhere. 

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31 minutes ago, Brogan322 said:

I think PC and PS4 players have a better chance of breaking free and my guess is their control layout. On Xbox I try so hard to mash fast but gets me nowhere. 

I play on PS4, take my word for it, its pretty much auto-death on there as well.

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9 minutes ago, Treymaker said:

I play on PS4, take my word for it, its pretty much auto-death on there as well.

Maybe it's just me then because one of my friend who streams on PS4 has an easy time escaping Jason in close corners as AJ and when I'm Jenny with the fear resistance build I still struggle and I always figured it was easier to mash on a PlayStation controller compared to the Xbox controller. 

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I think it's perfect like that. It's legit that the counselors have less of 5% to escape when Jason grabs them.

Why ? because it's fucking Jason ! the counselors have no power against him. It's still really annoying when Jason spend 5 minutes to grab a Vanessa with a pocket knife.

I know, the question is why the dev include this system ? because this can work, but with a really little chance to happen. Adam can break easily Jason's grab, it's a good chance to live when Jason want to perform a environment kill, for example.

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Depends on the counselor....in a closed off space Adam, Jenny, Fox, Shelly, and Buggzy are pretty decent at breaking free. It is composure tied in with strength. Although I will say that it is rare to survive a grab without a knife. Pretty sure in the beta everybody had the same breaking free speed, I saw Tiffany break free SUPER fast from Jason’s grasp. I do believe that a counselor who has taken no damage should break free pretty fast...take Jenny’s breaking free speed for an example. It should be the baseline for any counselor who has low fear. If the counselor is in full panic mode then that is when composure and strength should tie into break free of Jason’s grab. Even a skill check would be sufficient based on composure/strength to how big the bar is. Although I feel like Jenny and Buggzy would always break free due to them being high in those stats. A grab should not always mean CERTAIN death 100% of the time but it should have a skill check for the counselor to break free then if they miss it they have to mash a button to escape and the break free bar fills up at a baseline for all counselors with low fear and if they are in panic mode that’s when composure takes effect.

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I think the devs expected people to go for context kills more, therefore granting players more situations they might be able to break out of. The devs underestimated how competitive the game might become, and thought people would care a little more about getting cool kills rather than killing everyone.

Just my two cents. I wish every Jasons grab strength would be reduced by about 10% but that's all. Certainly no more than 20% maximum.

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It’s perfect the way it is now, getting grabbed isn’t an automatic death sentence , the odds are against you of you don’t have one of the 3 knifes on the map(not including jarvas), bu.t that is how it should be

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1 hour ago, CPLhicks31 said:

I think the devs expected people to go for context kills more, therefor granting players more situations they might be able to break out of. The devs underestimated how competitive the game might become, and thought people would care a little more about getting cool kills rather than killung everyone

This is exactly the reason. Particularly when you consider that anyone playing long enough has seen all the kills countless times, so there is no incentive to risk using anything but the most space / time efficient kills. It's a mechanic that is only relevant for newcomers, for everyone else your escape window is limited to the grab lift animation; no one around to grab save and no PK? Dead.

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29 minutes ago, Tommy86 said:

This is exactly the reason. Particularly when you consider that anyone playing long enough has seen all the kills countless times, so there is no incentive to risk using anything but the most space / time efficient kills. It's a mechanic that is only relevant for newcomers, for everyone else your escape window is limited to the grab lift animation; no one around to grab save and no PK? Dead.

Ehhh...kinda yes, mostly not. Unless a lobby has seriously annoyed me, I'm going to at least try for some variety. And my experience with other Jasons in PC quick play (all of my games are there) is largely the same. Almost nobody does the competitively smart thing, which is insta-choking everyone each and every grab unless you need the speed of headpunch/throat-slit.

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I’ve posed that before rage, it should be easier to break out of Jason’s grasp. Right now, it has to basically be a glitch or a tight space for people to actually break out. This makes the possibility of breaking out and composure irrelevant. The mechanic as it is does not work properly.

With that being said, once Jason hits rage, I personally believe that the option to break out should be completely removed. Here’s how it would work:

Pre-rage counselor caught: ~30% chance to break free depending on composure; pocket knife only used if counselor can’t break out

Raging Jason: no option to break out of grasp, pocket knife is the only way to break free 

This would rebalance the game in favor of the counselors for the first half of the match and heavily favor Jason the second half. More importantly, it would give counselors incentive to work together quickly before Jason can clean house. Too many matches still drag out for 20 minutes for selfish reasons. On another note, Jason should become significantly faster when he rages. And rage should kick in when someone takes the sweater, removes the mask, or calls the cops. Sns. Let’s kick it up and get real with Friday the 13th please. The entire rage mechanic basically needs to be overhauled. 

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