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Jason Todd Voorhees

Debate: Jason Voorhees Isn't A Deadite

Is Jason a Deadite?  

51 members have voted

  1. 1. Is Jason a Deadite?

    • Yes!
      4
    • No!
      47


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Firstly.... let's bring in some facts and evidence rather than just stating "Our Opinions matters" for this debate alright?

Adam Marcus stated this......

Quote

It’s not like I could tell New Line my plan to include The Evil Dead, because they don’t own The Evil Dead. So it had to be an Easter egg, and I did focus on it…there’s a whole scene that includes the book, and I hoped people would get it and could figure out that’s what I’m up to. So yes, in my opinion, Jason Voorhees is a Deadite. He’s one of The Evil Dead.

It absolutely is canon.

My first evidence against this debate is that fact is that Adam Marcus owns statement.....he stated Jason being a deadite is just merely just his OPINION and that only he and a claimed "two" other people knew about his idea and that the company didn't know anything about it, let's not forget he also stated it was just a mere easter egg as well, and even if you don't take these contradictions to him stating it canon there is more to this.....as not once was anything actually connected mostly far enough it was 100% contradicted, let's start off the timeline....he states Jason just magically grows up? yet this debunks canon that it's been 20+ years since his death.....secondly his concept of only a Voorhees can kill him is debunked by the fact Tommy Jarvis was capable of killing Jason in the 4th film. Followed by this Adam Marcus openly stated New Line Cinema at the time didn't once own the "Evil Dead" series so this furthers the concept that Jason was never a Deadite.

Let's not forget this one-time Friday the 13th director tried to retcon years of "Canon" for a fanfic based movie! His interviews display a ton of contradictions and plot holes!

"This “Jason is a Deadite” revelation is silly. The Necronomicon angle was a fun little explanation within the movie for Jason, however, there is no way Evil Dead was thought of for this movie. Adam threw in tons of Easter eggs from other films. @AdamMarcus13, I LOVE this film, but you know that book was nothing more than fan service, I’ve been writing about these films for many years and JGTH has always been a sore spot. That book fuels the fire and stories like this. Ugh. If it’s not on film or print, it’s not canon. A standalone film and revisionist history cannot retcon a franchise." -Friday the 13th the Franchise Twitter

 

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I'm a HUGE Evil Dead fan. It's my favourite horror movie series and I love seeing connections where ever they are. But despite that, I have to say, no, Jason isn't a Deadite.

Why?

Because even if you want to accept them as a shared universe, Jason doesn't ACT like a Deadite at all. Deadites aren't unstoppable zombie monsters. And they definitely aren't silent! Deadites talk, they taunt, and they can be killed much easier than Jason can. And they're demonic entities possessing a person, meaning they'd not act on real life impulses, such as being driven by what his mother would of wanted him to do.

The Necrinomicon in Part IX is a cool little easter egg. But if it's got to be there and connected to the Evil Dead franchise, I'd rather that Jason just found it at some point rather than it being connected to what he is.

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5 hours ago, VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow said:

Yes and no. In New Line canon, Jason is a Deadite. In the original canon, he was not. Just vaguely supernatural.

New line didn't approve of it and Adam Marcus stated it was a mere easter egg and his opinion.

He can't retcon any previous movies either as they contradict Jason.

4 hours ago, Veevleigh said:

I'm a HUGE Evil Dead fan. It's my favourite horror movie series and I love seeing connections where ever they are. But despite that, I have to say, no, Jason isn't a Deadite.

Why?

Because even if you want to accept them as a shared universe, Jason doesn't ACT like a Deadite at all. Deadites aren't unstoppable zombie monsters. And they definitely aren't silent! Deadites talk, they taunt, and they can be killed much easier than Jason can. And they're demonic entities possessing a person, meaning they'd not act on real life impulses, such as being driven by what his mother would of wanted him to do.

The Necrinomicon in Part IX is a cool little easter egg. But if it's got to be there and connected to the Evil Dead franchise, I'd rather that Jason just found it at some point rather than it being connected to what he is.

Agreed! Easter egg is just an easter egg!

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Nope. I would have preferred the series dies with Manhattan. Screw the New line butcheries.

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No. Jason isn't a Deadite, it was implied that he was by Ash in the Freddy vs Jason vs Ash comic.

In the DVD commentary for Jason goes to Hell, Adam Marcus said the dagger and Necronomicon were just gags.

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On 3/7/2018 at 7:54 PM, Beetlejuice91 said:

No. Jason isn't a Deadite, it was implied that he was by Ash in the Freddy vs Jason vs Ash comic.

In the DVD commentary for Jason goes to Hell, Adam Marcus said the dagger and Necronomicon were just gags.

Facts my dude

On 3/5/2018 at 7:55 AM, TheHansonGoons said:

Nope. I would have preferred the series dies with Manhattan. Screw the New line butcheries.

True

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I am a huge fan of both franchises and I'll be honest, I was pumped when I saw the Necronomicon Ex Mortis the first time I watched Jason Goes To Hell. Of course, I was young and stupid, and this movie has become, by far, my least favorite in the series. I waited 4 years for a Friday film, and I was excited to finally get one, but it was a huge let down.

With that being said...No, Jason is not a deadite. As has been mentioned before, the NEM was an easter egg in the movie, and only a few people knew about it during filming. Adam Marcus was a young director that really didn't know a damn thing about the lore of Friday the 13th, and he was trying to make his mark by retconning the entire series. Just look at some of his interviews, he really didn't know shit about the timeline of the films. 

Of course, this is just my opinion.

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Jason isn't a deadite, that's an Easter egg but the necronomicon does have something to do with him, who says only deadite's can be summoned with the NEM. As far a cannon goes, JGtH is cannon so the book is as well. Could there be more than one NEM, are the NEM and the necronomicon different books in a set, or is one a copy of the other? 

Wether or not the dagger was the same one is harder to say. In JGtH it's called the Voorhees dagger (I believe, it's been a long time since I watched it), in the Evil Dead it's called the Kandarian dagger. Now this could just be a matter of unreliable narrators, Crieghten might have been lied to himself so I'm not saying he lied on purpose, this allows a certain flexibility in how the game chooses to interprete it. Maybe it is the Voorhees dagger and like the book it is a copy?

Personally I always thought the lake had more to do with Jason's state of unlife, but the book or some unknown factor plays apart. Hell Jason might not be Jason, he could be a fake just like Roy. He could be Jason but possessed by Pamela, and he just does what she tells him. 

Ideally Jason is Jason, but that doesn't mean he's only Jason. Pamela, a demon or even Jason's mysterious father could be controlling him. Really this is why Gun should try and write a story, with the rights they have, they could fix the mythology and leave it in a better state. Hopefully getting another movie made. 

People want Jason to be in charge or in control but still choosing to do what he does. Most of the same people hate the body hopping Gun could kill two birds with one stone by simply making it cannon that Jason used the book, or someone (dad) used the book to insure he would come back, via a demon (NEM - but not deadite demon) that carried him to a new body. The movie played out the same way but this way Jason and the demon are separate beings, it even explains the talking. That was the demon not Jason. 

It would give Jason potentially a rival or enemy, or he killed it in hell. In the end Jason does what he does, because he wants to. At least in my version, that's how it ends. Jason doesn't change but we end up knowing he chooses to be this way. 

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Jason is not a Deadite.

If you analyze his injuries - all of them COULD have technically been survivable by a human being -- up until the Tommy Jarvis machete to the side of the head in Part IV.

After that, he was considered "undead". 

When you try to ascribe ANY natural/physical/scientific/supernatural reasoning behind Jason's "undead" status from that point, the story AND the franchise both suffer.

Just let him be a constant force. Just let him be Jason.

Stop ascribing.

I'm lookin' at you, Adam Marcus. *insert stinkeye here*

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20 hours ago, Cokeyskunk said:

Jason is not a Deadite.

If you analyze his injuries - all of them COULD have technically been survivable by a human being -- up until the Tommy Jarvis machete to the side of the head in Part IV.

After that, he was considered "undead". 

When you try to ascribe ANY natural/physical/scientific/supernatural reasoning behind Jason's "undead" status from that point, the story AND the franchise both suffer.

Just let him be a constant force. Just let him be Jason.

Stop ascribing.

I'm lookin' at you, Adam Marcus. *insert stinkeye here*

I agree! UNDEAD is UNDEAD he is a specific type known as a Revenant Zombie who retains their memories and basic functions as if they were alive and are driven by their deep desires which Jason goal is to kill for his mother Pamela.

On 3/12/2018 at 7:38 AM, Rexfellis said:

I am a huge fan of both franchises and I'll be honest, I was pumped when I saw the Necronomicon Ex Mortis the first time I watched Jason Goes To Hell. Of course, I was young and stupid, and this movie has become, by far, my least favorite in the series. I waited 4 years for a Friday film, and I was excited to finally get one, but it was a huge let down.

With that being said...No, Jason is not a deadite. As has been mentioned before, the NEM was an easter egg in the movie, and only a few people knew about it during filming. Adam Marcus was a young director that really didn't know a damn thing about the lore of Friday the 13th, and he was trying to make his mark by retconning the entire series. Just look at some of his interviews, he really didn't know shit about the timeline of the films. 

Of course, this is just my opinion.

Opinion? I would say it's a fact, my dude, lol anyone who knows the F13 Verse would agree with you.

20 hours ago, Slasher_Clone said:

Jason isn't a deadite, that's an Easter egg but the necronomicon does have something to do with him, who says only deadite's can be summoned with the NEM. As far a cannon goes, JGtH is cannon so the book is as well. Could there be more than one NEM, are the NEM and the necronomicon different books in a set, or is one a copy of the other? 

Wether or not the dagger was the same one is harder to say. In JGtH it's called the Voorhees dagger (I believe, it's been a long time since I watched it), in the Evil Dead it's called the Kandarian dagger. Now this could just be a matter of unreliable narrators, Crieghten might have been lied to himself so I'm not saying he lied on purpose, this allows a certain flexibility in how the game chooses to interprete it. Maybe it is the Voorhees dagger and like the book it is a copy?

Personally I always thought the lake had more to do with Jason's state of unlife, but the book or some unknown factor plays apart. Hell Jason might not be Jason, he could be a fake just like Roy. He could be Jason but possessed by Pamela, and he just does what she tells him. 

Ideally Jason is Jason, but that doesn't mean he's only Jason. Pamela, a demon or even Jason's mysterious father could be controlling him. Really this is why Gun should try and write a story, with the rights they have, they could fix the mythology and leave it in a better state. Hopefully getting another movie made. 

People want Jason to be in charge or in control but still choosing to do what he does. Most of the same people hate the body hopping Gun could kill two birds with one stone by simply making it cannon that Jason used the book, or someone (dad) used the book to insure he would come back, via a demon (NEM - but not deadite demon) that carried him to a new body. The movie played out the same way but this way Jason and the demon are separate beings, it even explains the talking. That was the demon not Jason. 

It would give Jason potentially a rival or enemy, or he killed it in hell. In the end Jason does what he does, because he wants to. At least in my version, that's how it ends. Jason doesn't change but we end up knowing he chooses to be this way. 

Section 1: Nah Adam Marcus made that entire scenario automatically Non-canon the moment he used the easter egg as a reference to Jason since well Jason can't talk...and Deadites use manipulation and "shit talking" to get to people where Jason just kills them....Deadites all have the same set of powers which Jason doesn't such as Shapeshifting, Athletic running speed, Illusions and Possession type abilities which isn't shown once in the series and as we all want to really say Jason goes to Hell as Canon....it isn't Adam made it clear he wanted to make his own "Lore" which contradicts the original films and the canon established even many fans sites disagree with it and that Adam added his own Fan Service as Adam himself stated that the company didn't know and that he knows that such a crossover would never happen since the Evil dead at the time was not owned with the series and that they are within their own seperate universe if we think about it. Hell, we don't know if Jason ever truly died since its speculated throughout the series that Jason didn't die and that he lived 20+ years and to answer the original book was about summoning god-like beings like Cthulhu so yes by definition yes there are different books about it rather than just one.

Section 2: Yes they call it the "Voorhees Dagger" in the movie and not called the Kandarian Dagger.

Section 3: But the problem would be that Deadites and Demons could speak and talk where Jason is completely mute and doesn't talk he is a silent killer 100% and why would she posses Jason? he was alive up until Part 6 came into existence.

Section 4: Many media has the lake be a center point like it was a place where Native Americans were slaughtered and their vengeful spirits possed Jason or that Jason is bound to the lake since he was "killed"

Section 5: Pamela tapes already have a lore that Elias isn't Jason biological father and that Pamela was raped.

Section 6: I would rather believe the Jason X books where Jason add "Elias Voorhees" plays with Dark Magic and then has supernatural powers that then pass down to Jason who would be what he is today.

Section 7: Jason chose his nature to be an unstoppable killing machine tbh he did it because it's his goal for his deceased mother.

To add to my 1st response.....Deadites all have the exact same characteristics......In the general sense Deadites are comedic, sadistic, and very dark they tend to show emotion and if all of us Evil Dead fans would know they enjoy Self-mutilation, swearing, and feeding on fear and that they how high level of intelligence and that they have a linked mind all opposite of what Jason is and does as a Killer he is undead but doesn't have what Deadites have when it comes to changing a different form and or other such things so not just that Adam doesn't know what a Deadite is he doesn't know how to write either.

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Here is my view on it:

Pamela goes bananas after Jason drowns in the lake, right? And we know for a fact she'd do anything and everything to bring her boy back. Well, when the camp re-opens, she can't stand it and goes on her murder spree, but just before that ,she stumbles across the Necronomicon. Now we know it can do all sorts of things, including reviving the dead, depending on what one does. What if her killings were a requirement to fulfill the "pact" to bring Jason back to life? The problem being ,when she went to kill her final target for the ritual, it was turned around and she was killed. However, the kills were in place and the ritual was completed. The "boy" jumping out of the lake was a dream sequence, but as the evil in the Necronomicon showcases, dreams can have ties to reality, and that was his "spirit" being pulled out of the hereafter. When he has a physical form, he's an adult, albeit deformed.

A hiccup though as Jason isn't savy in the ways of magic or even reading much. Therefore, Jason tries to "do the thing to bring his mother back", but it's incomplete; he's killing for mother and is driven to fulfill her wishes, but isn't completely sure what he needs to do for that final step. On top of that, because of his lower intelligence in academic areas and a sole focus on his mother, the other forces around the other deadites can't control him; Mother comes first and foremost.

Personally, I find this backstory makes him MORE badass as even the forces of straight evil can't control him for their gain.

This culminates in Jason being unable to be killed for good, as well as looking different/mutated in each incarnation, explains his otherworldly strength, teleportation powers, and so on.

Now, on the flipside, I'm willing to also believe Jason was "merely human, just really durable" for parts 2, 3, and 4. Maybe he was brought back in a good way and, as said earlier, the Deadites couldn't control him.

Part 6 and onwards, he's obviously undead. Wraith? Zombie? Deadite? Doesn't matter much at this point, his powers are his to command, Crystal Lake welcomes no one, all on behalf of Mother.

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All deadites are controlled by a higher being and Jason? He only listened to his mother lol I doubt the Karshadian Demon could brainwash Jason like that because if we look at the lore of Savini Jason  he either killed or beat down satan himself a being above all the supernatural entities in the horrorverse and got turned into a walking demonic force of unstoppable killing bloodlust.

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Devs could explain how Jason is immortal (canon) maybe with a new tapes...

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Jason is a revenant. The boy in the lake may have been a psychic attack from Jason's mind to Alice after seeing her kill Pamela, much like in part 8 with the psychic projections to Rennie. Also Pamela may have had a psychic link with her son.

Or, Jason was a revenant, just saw his mom being killed by Alice, no psychic stuff, just decided to get revenge. (I lean more towards this theory).

There was some sort of supernatural force that brought Jason back, it's not a book of the dead. The lightning and electricity seen in part 6&8 indicate this, along with Tina having telekinesis.

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2 hours ago, Redcat345 said:

Jason is a revenant. The boy in the lake may have been a psychic attack from Jason's mind to Alice after seeing her kill Pamela, much like in part 8 with the psychic projections to Rennie. Also Pamela may have had a psychic link with her son.

Or, Jason was a revenant, just saw his mom being killed by Alice, no psychic stuff, just decided to get revenge. (I lean more towards this theory).

There was some sort of supernatural force that brought Jason back, it's not a book of the dead. The lightning and electricity seen in part 6&8 indicate this, along with Tina having telekinesis.

2

Revenant Zombie form via Part 6 and I take the theory given that he never drowned and grew up in the woods and such.

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On 3/17/2018 at 11:13 AM, Jason Todd Voorhees said:

Revenant Zombie form via Part 6 and I take the theory given that he never drowned and grew up in the woods and such.

There were many hints thrown out there that Jason never drowned at all. The police searched the lake but  never found his body. Was even seen in the water even and it was a story given on his disappearance? It's been over a decade since I seen some of the films. So correct me if I miss something. Say he was in the lake and he drowned but was able to survive via lucky being dragged by a currant onto shore or was able to grab onto drift wood. My biggest question though is why he never came back to his mom. Did he suffer amnesia from head injury during the incident or was he so scared to return. He may not talk but I never got the hint that he was retarded. He lived alone completely undetected for over 30 years in that forest building his own shelter and surviving peacefully off the land all before his mom went nuts and got herself beheaded. I also want to see an official explanation on how Jason was brought back Frankenstein Monster style by Tommy. The reason was half assed and tad unrealistic. They need to make a better reason on what actually happened. It'll be more interesting if they played on the history of that land Crystal Lake is on and some supernatural vibe being part of the land was able to bring Jason back for revenge, like that land was once sacred land to the Native Americans where spirits of the dead can be brought back and Tommy's accident triggered it to happen.

Thereis no debate with me about the Deadite thing because the creators of Evil Dead outright said that F13 existing in their story's universe isn't Canon nor approved by them and I don't blame them. F13 and Evil Dead have their own universe. The Jason and Deadite thing is just fan fiction.

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I enjoy Jason Goes to Hell, and I think Adam Marcus is a cool guy, but no. Jason isn't a deadite. I've always thought the Necronomicon had something to do with why he is the way he is, but there is nothing about Jason that is indicative of him being a deadite.

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For me, Jason Goes to Hell is non-Canon. And why it should?

About how Jason was alive until his "death" in Part 4, I prefer to believe in the story Paul told in Part 2, in which Jason survived his drowning and lived in the woods as a hermit for 21 years until the events of Part 2, 3 and 4.

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4 hours ago, NoOneK9503 said:

For me, Jason Goes to Hell is non-Canon. And why it should?

About how Jason was alive until his "death" in Part 4, I prefer to believe in the story Paul told in Part 2, in which Jason survived his drowning and lived in the woods as a hermit for 21 years until the events of Part 2, 3 and 4.

Agreed!

12 hours ago, RKSDooM said:

I enjoy Jason Goes to Hell, and I think Adam Marcus is a cool guy, but no. Jason isn't a deadite. I've always thought the Necronomicon had something to do with why he is the way he is, but there is nothing about Jason that is indicative of him being a deadite.

0 characteristics of a deadite.

18 hours ago, Avanious said:

Thereis no debate with me about the Deadite thing because the creators of Evil Dead outright said that F13 existing in their story's universe isn't Canon nor approved by them and I don't blame them. F13 and Evil Dead have their own universe. The Jason and Deadite thing is just fan fiction.

Facts!

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Okay, just for fun (even though I don't buy this theory at all) let's try and argue the points for Jason being some kind of Deadite:

There's an argument that a second Necronomicon must exist, even in the Evil Dead universe, so it's plausible Pamela Voorhees had it. Why? Well, it's destroyed, canonically, in the original Evil Dead movie (Sam Raimi has said this is canon) and yet there's the book, solid and in one piece, in Ash vs. Evil Dead, which explicitly references the events of Evil Dead 1 on numerous occasions. So it's plausible there are two copies (at least) of the book out there, and somehow Ash ends up with the second by the time of the TV show. Maybe this second book remained with Pamela.

So the Necronomicon is in the Voorhees house. Jason has never shown any interest in going back to his 'house', and is only interested in Crystal Lake, so it's safe to assume Pamela put it there. And if she did, why did she have it? Again, it's logical to assume she had it to try and resurrect Jason.

But, as many (including myself) point out, Jason doesn't act like a Deadite. True enough, but there are many, many different types of Deadites. Sometimes they have wings, sometimes they can fly, sometimes they turn in to weird snake monsters, sometimes they take the form of a colon that tries to strangle you, sometimes it's a porno mag with a hand that comes out of it... just off the top of my head, and that's to say nothing of the demons it can summon, like the 'demon of the mind' Ash fights in the TV show, or any of the 'Dark Ones'. So it's plausible this particular Deadite form is actually a little different.

It's especially plausible if you consider the possibility that young Jason could't talk. Sure, Pamela imagines his voice, but what if before he died, Jason could never talk anyway? Then the Deadite version would be equally silent. Jason still likes to play tricks on people, with where he pins his bodies and such, so he could easily be said to have a level of the mischievous Deadite spirit.

But then why would he have memories of his mother? Well, remember, Deadites do seem to have the memories of their hosts, and use them to taunt and mock their enemies. But also, when we see Ash as a Deadite in Evil Dead 2, he both recognises and is stopped by the necklace he gave Linda. Theoretically, you could argue Pamela's sweater has the same effect as that necklace did on Ash, and the reason Jason is slowed in Part II is because he's actually reverting to 'human' form, albeit temporarily before the Deadite takes over again. And outside of that, like I said, Deadites possess their memories anyway. Especially if Pamela was specifically trying to resurrect Jason himself, what she tried to do could of easily left an imprint of herself in 'spirit' form tied to Jason or some such.

Just to clarify, I don't believe any of this; Jason is clearly never intended to be a Deadite except in Jason Goes to Hell, where the director threw in an Easter Egg. But for the fun of a debate, there's a possible reasoning.

 

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