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On ‎2‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 3:07 AM, Psylocker102 said:

Wow.... for a violent game this topic is pretty... hot Im suprised

And Im perfectly fine with it as long as no one mentions sexuality in any bad way. Then I will go on full reporting force.

That's right. You violate that report button. Mmmmm. :tiffbutt:

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I would recommend every Christian to read these two books:

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and every agnostic and/or skeptic to read these two books:

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and a personal recommendation of my own for life issues:

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On 4/24/2018 at 9:08 AM, deathbat96777 said:

Have you seen The Remaining? It's a film about the rapture with a horror twist. It was directed by Casey La Scala (Donnie Darko). It's actually not bad at all. I had, actually, really low expectations though which might have lended to my enjoying the film. 

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Do you believe that people can be taught false beliefs?

If others can be thought false beliefs, how do you know you're not just like them. That you haven't been taught a lie, a pathetic fallacy. This isn't an attack, I'm serious. If your making a claim to special knowledge then share it, evidence is required to prove something is true. If not how are you different from all the people that are wrong?

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29 minutes ago, Slasher_Clone said:

Do you believe that people can be taught false beliefs?

I do, absolutely.

But that's bigger than any given set of beliefs. You, me, everyone should always be examining the things they believe, asking questions, and looking deeper. 

For yourself, personally, there's no thing that a person can offer you that'll convince you of one thing or another. You're the one that knows the questions you may or may not be asking. There are things you already firmly believe, and don't. You're free to look deeper, look for what supports your beliefs and especially look at what challenges them. 

That's just my opinion on it. 

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8 minutes ago, DasMurich said:

For yourself, personally, there's no thing that a person can offer you that'll convince you of one thing or another. You're the one that knows the questions you may or may not be asking. There are things you already firmly believe, and don't. You're free to look deeper, look for what supports your beliefs and especially look at what challenges them. 

Your wrong, evidence can convince me. 

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3 minutes ago, Slasher_Clone said:

Your wrong, evidence can convince me. 

Then I'm wrong. Happens quite a bit. What is the question that you're specifically looking for an answer to?

(Not that my curiosity means I'm the person that can answer it)

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4 minutes ago, DasMurich said:

Then I'm wrong. Happens quite a bit. What is the question that you're specifically looking for an answer to?

(Not that my curiosity means I'm the person that can answer it)

I already asked two questions. Can people be taught false beliefs, how do you know yours aren't false. Can you prove it to even yourself? I'm endlessly confused by rational people who can't see past something they were taught. Yeah death is scary, but it doesn't really matter. The universe is filled with suffering, sure but it also has endless beauty and wonder. None of that requires belief in statements made by long dead fools. Religion doesn't answer questions about truth. It seems especially silly that this topic is on a F13 forum, isn't thinking a thing a sin in the bible. 

 

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11 minutes ago, Slasher_Clone said:

Isn't thinking a thing a sin in the bible. 

 

No, if that was the case then God would definitely not have given us minds, or the ability to think for ourselves at all. Even Adam and Eve, before the first sin, had functioning minds (Eve had to think of why she would even want to eat that apple from the tree of Good and Evil that Satan convinced her to eat). Now, if you think of something that is sinful in nature (e.g. lusting after someone), then that would obviously be sinful. The acting of thinking alone isn't sinful at all, albeit it does frequently lead to sinning due to humanity's fallen nature.

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7 minutes ago, Slasher_Clone said:

Can people be taught false beliefs

Yes.

7 minutes ago, Slasher_Clone said:

how do you know yours aren't false

I've seen them proven true. It's a deeply personally thing that I'm not drafting a novella to explain. 

9 minutes ago, Slasher_Clone said:

I'm endlessly confused by rational people who can't see past something they were taught.

 

9 minutes ago, Slasher_Clone said:

long dead fools

 

9 minutes ago, Slasher_Clone said:

isn't thinking a thing a sin in the bible

You've already made up your mind and you're not actually asking anything. You aren't sceptical, you're cynical. 

I'm not trying to insult you or provoke you but I don't see anything that shows you're actually asking something because there's something you sincerely want to know. 

It's reading like, how do you believe X since X is wrong. 

Maybe I'm not understanding.

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Really so the Ten Commandments don't say that thinking about adultery is adultery?

1 minute ago, Trident77 said:

No, if that was the case then God would definitely not have given us minds, or the ability to think for ourselves at all. Even Adam and Even, before the first sin, had functioning minds (Eve had to think of why she would even want to eat that apple from the tree of Good and Evil that Satan convinced her to eat). Now, if you think of something that is sinful in nature (e.g. lusting after someone), then that would obviously be sinful. The acting of thinking alone isn't sinful at all, albeit it does frequently lead to sinning due to humanity's fallen nature.

Sinful in nature, like murder?

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Slasher_Clone said:

Really so the Ten Commandments don't say that thinking about adultery is adultery?

Sinful in nature, like murder?

Dude, you're getting really confusing here. Your question was "isn't thinking a sin in the bible?" The answer is no, thinking is neutral in nature. As I said, thinking about something that is sinful in nature, like thinking about wanting to commit adultery, is in fact a sin. But thinking alone wasn't the sinful part, it's what you thought about that was sinful that was the sinful part. Thinking about murdering someone would be sinful too because murder is unjustifiably killing someone (e.g. Jason executing counselors who had no part in his mother's death).

But the act of thinking, by itself, isn't a sin. If I looked at the sky to order to behold its beauty, that isn't sinful. All I did was admire how beautiful the sky looked.

Edit: Whoops, typos, refer back to this post if you posted before I made the change.

Edited by Trident77

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F13/Horror as it relates to Faith - 

"In my opinion, the horror genre is a perfect genre for Christians to be involved with. I think the more compelling question is, Why do so many Christians find it odd that a Christian would be working in this genre? To me, this genre deals more overtly with the supernatural than any other genre, it tackles issues of good and evil more than any other genre, it distinguishes and articulates the essence of good and evil better than any other genre, and my feeling is that a lot of Christians are wary of this genre simply because it's unpleasant. The genre is not about making you feel good, it is about making you face your fears. And in my experience, that's something that a lot of Christians don't want to do.

To me, the horror genre is the genre of non-denial. It's about admitting that there is evil in the world, and recognizing that there is evil within us, and that we're not in control, and that the things that we are afraid of must be confronted in order for us to relinquish that fear. And I think that the horror genre serves a great purpose in bolstering our understanding of what is evil and therefore better defining what is good. And of course I'm talking about, really, the potential of the horror genre, because there are a lot of horror films that don't do these things. It is a genre that's full of exploitation, but the better films in the genre certainly accomplish, I think, very noble things." - Scott Derickson

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12 minutes ago, DasMurich said:

I've seen them proven true. It's a deeply personally thing that I'm not drafting a novella to explain.

There we go with the claim to special knowledge.

@Trident77, so thinking about killing counselors is a sin?

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15 minutes ago, Slasher_Clone said:

There we go with the claim to special knowledge.

Okay, so, you have had addictions to deal with? You're wife has died? You've had to deal with Dysmorphia, Intrusive Thought, and mild OCD that all stemmed from repeated childhood sexual abuse?

These are personal things - and in what I've gone through, and where I've grown, and where I've been broken - yes - it's been proven to me that my faith doesn't return empty handed.

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4 minutes ago, Slasher_Clone said:

There we go with the claim to special knowledge.

@Trident77, so thinking about killing counselors is a sin?

Technically yes since this game is a murder simulator when playing the part of Jason (aka you're not really murdering, but going through the motions where you cannot do any actual harm in real life since actual murder would likely land you in jail), henceforth why I very much prefer being a counselor instead. Honestly though, in the past whenever I ended up being Jason I would simply leave the game, so when I found out the game finally made it so that selecting counselor preference would only give you Jason if everyone else had that preference selected randomly I was one happy camper.

For FF13th, however, it's clear that being Jason means being able to brutally murder people via executions (which is the big selling point of being Jason), so in that case it's easily a sin because, as mentioned earlier, part of being Jason is acting out a murder simulator. But I like this game because of how counselor gameplay would translate in real life: some people would be complete dicks, some would refuse to cooperate, and others would work together to varying degrees of effectiveness. Being a counselor does mean being able to protect others from someone who is hellbent on murder (unless the Jason player just goofs off the entire game, which can happpen on occasion or they're simply just bad), and I've always liked games where teamwork can help overcome a dangerous adversary.

It's tricky to balance medias like videogames, or something like writing a book, because the intent of why do so is important. I'm actually writing a book as of now that features a murderer, so I've personally wondered if it's sinful to feature that kind of writing. However, because the intent of the book is showcasing how important it is for people to work together in a moment of crisis, featuring an antagonist that the protagonists must defeat doesn't seem too bad in my eyes, so long as the story homes the idea of people working together despite their differences. To that end, the points of view are strictly on the people banding together to survive, and the murderer is left out; this way my readers would know I'm not going to glorify the murderer's actions, instead I'm making the story focus on the people working with a common goal to defeat said murderer as well as all the drama that goes together with it.

 

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55 minutes ago, Trident77 said:

Technically yes since this game is a murder simulator when playing the part of Jason (aka you're not really murdering, but going through the motions where you cannot do any actual harm in real life since actual murder would likely land you in jail), henceforth why I very much prefer being a counselor instead. Honestly though, in the past whenever I ended up being Jason I would simply leave the game, so when I found out the game finally made it so that selecting counselor preference would only give you Jason if everyone else had that preference selected randomly I was one happy camper.

For FF13th, however, it's clear that being Jason means being able to brutally murder people via executions (which is the big selling point of being Jason), so in that case it's easily a sin because, as mentioned earlier, part of being Jason is acting out a murder simulator. But I like this game because of how counselor gameplay would translate in real life: some people would be complete dicks, some would refuse to cooperate, and others would work together to varying degrees of effectiveness. Being a counselor does mean being able to protect others from someone who is hellbent on murder (unless the Jason player just goofs off the entire game, which can happpen on occasion or they're simply just bad), and I've always liked games where teamwork can help overcome a dangerous adversary.

It's tricky to balance medias like videogames, or something like writing a book, because the intent of why do so is important. I'm actually writing a book as of now that features a murderer, so I've personally wondered if it's sinful to feature that kind of writing. However, because the intent of the book is showcasing how important it is for people to work together in a moment of crisis, featuring an antagonist that the protagonists must defeat doesn't seem too bad in my eyes, so long as the story homes the idea of people working together despite their differences. To that end, the points of view are strictly on the people banding together to survive, and the murderer is left out; this way my readers would know I'm not going to glorify the murderer's actions, instead I'm making the story focus on the people working with a common goal to defeat said murderer as well as all the drama that goes together with it.

 

If you follow through with your belief then your not a hypocrite, so you've gained a small measure of respect in my eyes. However you are playing the game enables people to commit a sin, so you should think about how that works with your very specific world view.

57 minutes ago, DasMurich said:

Okay, so, you have had addictions to deal with? You're wife has died? You've had to deal with Dysmorphia, Intrusive Thought, and mild OCD that all stemmed from repeated childhood sexual abuse?

These are personal things - and in what I've gone through, and where I've grown, and where I've been broken - yes - it's been proven to me that my faith doesn't return empty handed.

I think the things you have listed would be easier to deal with if you made use of modern medicine. All of those things you listed can be laid at your imaginary gods feet. This also makes what you have to say on the matter unreliable, you are defending your whole world view as true, not making any specific claim you can prove, while claiming your experience as proof. 

Edit - I do respect your honesty, and no one should have to live through your childhood experience.

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2 hours ago, Slasher_Clone said:

This also makes what you have to say on the matter unreliable, you are defending your whole world view as true, not making any specific claim you can prove, while claiming your experience as proof.

Exactly. I can prove my claim as easily as you can disprove it and that's what it always comes down to. 

You can reject my claims as unreliable without having to actually show that they are, you're only assuming they are. Am I an unreliable person? Do I consistently fail to do what I say? Am I known liar? Have I given you cause to assume these things about me are true?

You don't know me at all yet you're willing to assume that I'm a fool or liar or deceived simpleton. I can tell you that I'm in a place now better than I would have ever imagined I could be without ever having to be medicated yet you would suggest I'd ought to have been? 

That's interesting.

It's always easy to dismiss things that lie in the metaphysical world.

Lawrence Krause likes to sometimes say that if God would arrange the stars to read I AM HERE, then he might consider He is real. Might. That takes a special kind of pride. 

Anyways, you're assumption about my character or reliability is that of a cynic who has made their mind before they ask anything. You're asking if anyone can be taught false beliefs to try and showcase a person's beliefs as false, while being 100% certain your beliefs are not. I mean if you weren't so certain why would you?

You'd think our human origins alone would disprove the idea of some God having anything to do with anything. It's all been so clearly laid out. I mean, the Smithsonian is telling us - Lucy is arguably the most famous of all early human individuals. 

Source

And this was last updated in 2016

But what's crazy is we've known for some time- our forebears underwent a previously unknown stage of evolution more than a million years before Lucy. 

Source

Source

And yet so many people, so empirically infallible, continue to push a false narrative while Australopithecus continues to branch away from humans more and more. And this doesn't even touch on the Crete footprints and death of the Out Of Africa theory. 

We can hang our hats on Fisher's work that tells us that it's a mathematic fact that Darwin's theory will only produce fitness. It's comforting to know it's all been settled except that mutations realistically lead to genetic entropy and Fisher's theory has been falsified. 

Source

Anyways, certainty is something we all want and don't really ever fully get. It's always about faith in one thing or another, in the end. 

Science is amazing but unreliable as far too often its theorists dig down in dogma and continue to try and jam square pegs in to round holes convincing the world the only thing we need to know is that Neo-Darwinian Materialism explains all and nothing matters. Don't think it isn't the same for people of faith - failing to search for deeper things leads to exactly the same religious stagnation. 

You could read Miller's paper, it's a lot of fun.

Why an extended evolutionary synthesis is necessary

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37 minutes ago, DasMurich said:

It's always easy to dismiss things that lie in the metaphysical world.

Yes it is easy, as there is no proof of a metaphysical world.

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4 hours ago, DasMurich said:

F13/Horror as it relates to Faith - 

"In my opinion, the horror genre is a perfect genre for Christians to be involved with. I think the more compelling question is, Why do so many Christians find it odd that a Christian would be working in this genre? To me, this genre deals more overtly with the supernatural than any other genre, it tackles issues of good and evil more than any other genre, it distinguishes and articulates the essence of good and evil better than any other genre, and my feeling is that a lot of Christians are wary of this genre simply because it's unpleasant. The genre is not about making you feel good, it is about making you face your fears. And in my experience, that's something that a lot of Christians don't want to do.

To me, the horror genre is the genre of non-denial. It's about admitting that there is evil in the world, and recognizing that there is evil within us, and that we're not in control, and that the things that we are afraid of must be confronted in order for us to relinquish that fear. And I think that the horror genre serves a great purpose in bolstering our understanding of what is evil and therefore better defining what is good. And of course I'm talking about, really, the potential of the horror genre, because there are a lot of horror films that don't do these things. It is a genre that's full of exploitation, but the better films in the genre certainly accomplish, I think, very noble things." - Scott Derickson

To add to the leverage of this quote, this is a quote from the guy who directed The Conjuring 1 and 2 as well as Marvel's Doctor Strange. There's subtle Christian undertones and Bible references all throughout these three movies even though at times it's not obvious to the religiously untrained and is sometimes mixed into the philosophies of other religions. Nonetheless, I think it's very neat and I love this quote. I think whatever you believe will come out in your work one way or another and that's not necessarily a good or bad thing, it's a very neutral thing. I think it adds integrity to your work because it shows you're true to yourself and it makes him unique in the business. 

 

Edit: on a side note, and this may not in any way be right and it's just my word and not God's, but I don't think it's a sin to kill someone in a video game, because said person doesn't exist. It's just pixels and it's just for fun. If you're a rational person and know for a fact it's made up, and you're not killing people in a game out of anger towards a real person, then I don't see it as a sin because it's just pretend. If you want to go as far as to call that a sin, then you might as well call it a sin to play cowboys and indians and pretend to shoot each other or fling imaginary arrows at people. I think it's all about what's in your heart when you're playing killer in said game. Are you just roleplaying as Jason, or are you taking out anger on these imaginary characters because of a deeper psychosis in which you want to kill real life people? I don't think it's a sin to play the villain in a game and pretend to kill made up, man made people so long as you are rational, not mentally ill, and can differentiate between fiction and reality. I do think that little kids and maybe even some teens shouldn't play this game, however. I wouldn't let my kid play this unless he was at least 15

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48 minutes ago, Slasher_Clone said:

Yes it is easy, as there is no proof of a metaphysical world.

The Soul

Can Science Prove Souls Exist

You can also look in to the work and theories of Hans-Peter Durr or Christian Hellwig or Robert Jahn regarding Quantum Physics and it's potentials.

Epigenetics.

Lamarck. 

Goes on and on. 

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I feel like this may be getting a little bit too argumentative. We have to remember that our goal is not to win people over with grandiose arguments or supposed infallible pockets of truth, because that never works. The most important thing to do when witnessing the Truth to others is to listen to them and learn to understand their viewpoint as much as we want them to understand ours. 

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6 minutes ago, deathbat96777 said:

I feel like this may be getting a little bit too argumentative. We have to remember that our goal is not to win people over with grandiose arguments or supposed infallible pockets of truth, because that never works. The most important thing to do when witnessing the Truth to others is to listen to them and learn to understand their viewpoint as much as we want them to understand ours. 

You're probably right. 

I'll drop it lol. 

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1 hour ago, DasMurich said:

The Soul

Can Science Prove Souls Exist

You can also look in to the work and theories of Hans-Peter Durr or Christian Hellwig or Robert Jahn regarding Quantum Physics and it's potentials.

Epigenetics.

Lamarck. 

Goes on and on. 

Neither of these proves that souls exist, there however is a consensus among neurologists that souls are provably false by way of brain injury. It's fine that your fantasy gives you comfort, it really is, it's just not a fantasy that is for everyone.

Just to be clear, I'm a secularist, and defend your right to believe whatever you want, it is your right to have free expression. Of course it's my right to criticize that expression with my own. 

Good and evil are concepts, not truths.

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44 minutes ago, Slasher_Clone said:

Just to be clear, I'm a secularist, and defend your right to believe whatever you want, it is your right to have free expression. Of course it's my right to criticize that expression with my own. 

This I agree with wholeheartedly. This (USA) is in fact a secular nation, not imposing one belief over another, and we are free feel and believe what we choose. It's an invaluable right for everyone.

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