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Should the -Shift weakness be reworked?  

96 members have voted

  1. 1. Your choice:

    • Yes, with longer cooldown and normal speed.
    • Yes, with normal cooldown and slower speed.
    • No. Keep the original aspects.


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3 hours ago, NoOneK9503 said:

Say this to -Sense and -Stalk, who according to @Alkavian and @Tommy86, have no drawbacks except for cooldown.

In regards to Stalk:  Yes. The only difference is cooldowns.

In regards to Sense:  Kinda. They differ when Rage begins in how far of a *bonus* bump to sensing range they get AND cooldowns. :)

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@bewareofbears and @Alkavian Think with me. If -Shift only had longer cooldown, Part 7 wouldn't be suffering as much as he is now. He would just be more cautious with Shift management.

This is what I like about the first option of the poll. Certain Jasons would be way more viable with this change.

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It’s not as bad for J4 because he can run, but it continues to be crippling for J7. Playing private matches last night on Xbox with @TheHansonGoons @GhostWolfViking and others and we had a J7. If you guessed that he got ZERO kills, you would be correct...par for the course with J7. He needs to be given a normal shift.

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53 minutes ago, NoOneK9503 said:

@bewareofbears and @Alkavian Think with me. If -Shift only had longer cooldown, Part 7 wouldn't be suffering as much as he is now. He would just be more cautious with Shift management.

This is what I like about the first option of the poll. Certain Jasons would be way more viable with this change.

Penalized stats need to have meaningful penalties or they really are not a weakness. -Shift could be improved by simply having it's duration increased by 1 second like the neutral and + Shift. The speed of neutral could be slowed slightly to put it at the even point between negative and positive. 

 

Part 7 really needs to not have -Shift as a weakness. Regardless if Shift ever gets adjusted or not. That's just my thoughts on it 

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@Alkavian If that's the case then Part 4 does not need a weakness that creates such a contradiction in his playstyle too.

Remove his -Shift!

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47 minutes ago, Super Ty said:

It’s not as bad for J4 because he can run, but it continues to be crippling for J7. Playing private matches last night on Xbox with @TheHansonGoons @GhostWolfViking and others and we had a J7. If you guessed that he got ZERO kills, you would be correct...par for the course with J7. He needs to be given a normal shift.

 

41 minutes ago, Alkavian said:

Penalized stats need to have meaningful penalties or they really are not a weakness. -Shift could be improved by simply having it's duration increased by 1 second like the neutral and + Shift. The speed of neutral could be slowed slightly to put it at the even point between negative and positive. 

 

Part 7 really needs to not have -Shift as a weakness. Regardless if Shift ever gets adjusted or not. That's just my thoughts on it 

I quoted both here because the symptoms I saw in the game @Super Ty mentions here was his inability to move between locations quick enough. Aat one point, I watched him morph to the phone house, which had people in it, then be forced to walk towards a car that was being fixed. It was early on, but the point is, his recharge times are too long. Along with one of the slowest walks(if not the slowest) this is why a Part 7 struggles. 

I think adding shift to him, or at least making it neutral, will make him much more of a formiddable force. After all, morphing next to the road and walking slow as Hell is no way to stop a 4 seater.

I hated seeing a friend join then quit out after one match because he couldn't kill anyone. I know how discouraging that can feel.

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1 minute ago, TheHansonGoons said:

I think adding shift to him, or at least making it neutral, will make him much more of a formiddable force. After all, morphing next to the road and walking slow as Hell is no way to stop a 4 seater.

Morph spots seem to have gotten worse with the recent patch too. Especially the one in that North East loop on Packanack. Always Morphs me way too far from the car.

I got used to the Crystal Lake one. I never Morph behind the fence. Guess I'll have to learn the right spot for Packanack.

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I honestly don't know. Longer cooldown plus normal speed means you have an easier time catching up to the car and reaching counselors that are far away. However, if you don't reach the car in time, then it's most likely going to escape. It also gives counselors more time to run away. Normal cooldown plus slower speed allows for more Shifting and is easier to control, but it's harder to get in front of a car and it takes longer to catch up to a counselor. This is a difficult choice for me.

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2 hours ago, NoOneK9503 said:

@Alkavian If that's the case then Part 4 does not need a weakness that creates such a contradiction in his playstyle too.

Remove his -Shift!

If you take away Part 4's penalty to Shift you'd have to give him a meaningful penalty elsewhere. His traps penalty hurts him more than a slow shift. This is the same crux for Part 7 but it hurts 7 more because of his lack of other meta buffs. Part 4 is a great aggressor but he sucks at objective control. What would you sub -Shift with? -Morph? Penalizing hit points, defense, stun resistance, Stalk or Sense is not really much of a penalty. 

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1 hour ago, Alkavian said:

If you take away Part 4's penalty to Shift you'd have to give him a meaningful penalty elsewhere. His traps penalty hurts him more than a slow shift. This is the same crux for Part 7 but it hurts 7 more because of his lack of other meta buffs. Part 4 is a great aggressor but he sucks at objective control. What would you sub -Shift with? -Morph? Penalizing hit points, defense, stun resistance, Stalk or Sense is not really much of a penalty. 

Yeah, his -Traps should remain.

I propose -Less Hit Points because: 

1st. It does not affect his probability to block attacks. So he can fight counselors more often with his +Weapon Strength.

2nd. If abused right by the counselors, this Jason will have his mask knocked off quickly. Thus being at disadvantage. This Jason has more chance of dying when playing with the right players.

3rd. Do you know what can be done with his mask? You can't alert Jason when fixing the car, phone box or boat and can enter his shack without alerting him. Basically, it turns the process of killing him much easier, especially with -Less HP.

4th. To better reflect the film, since he was wounded twice besides having an axe wound in the FOREHEAD!

 

At the end, he would be almost unstoppable, but could also be killed more easily.

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I pulled this from another thread, but I feel it is also relevant here:

2 hours ago, Truth said:

Part 6: (+ shift)

Shift:  56.25m (~185ft) effective range / 33.75kph (~21mph) velocity / 6 second duration / 20 second recharge

Part 8: (normal shift)

Shift:  53.25m (~175ft) effective range / 32kph (~20mph) velocity / 6 second duration / 30 second recharge

Part 4: (-shift)

Shift:  30m (98.4ft) effective range / 21.6kph (13.4mph) velocity / 5 second duration / 40 second recharge

 

Part 5 gets interesting though. He also has normal shift, but his results are:

Shift:  40.5m (~133ft) effective range / 29.16kph (~18mph) velocity / 5 second duration / 40 second recharge

What's up with Roy's shift?

This is taken from here:

http://forum.f13game.com/topic/10596-the-playbook-techniques-and-strategies/?page=9

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3 hours ago, NoOneK9503 said:

Yeah, his -Traps should remain.

I propose -Less Hit Points because: 

1st. It does not affect his probability to block attacks. So he can fight counselors more often with his +Weapon Strength.

2nd. If abused right by the counselors, this Jason will have his mask knocked off quickly. Thus being at disadvantage. This Jason has more chance of dying when playing with the right players.

3rd. Do you know what can be done with his mask? You can't alert Jason when fixing the car, phone box or boat and can enter his shack without alerting him. Basically, it turns the process of killing him much easier, especially with -Less HP.

4th. To better reflect the film, since he was wounded twice besides having an axe wound in the FOREHEAD!

 

At the end, he would be almost unstoppable, but could also be killed more easily.

I do fine with J4 as my guy, - shift for balance is peachy. If YOU want to change that then how bout this. Regular shift, - morph. Then while we're at it, let's get rid of that crappy water speed and instead give him -hit points. Because he did kill two in the water in 4, but he died at the end when Trish de-masked him. He was the last living (real) Jason. Part three was an axe to the head. Part 4 he was killed with a machete by Tommy, and the force of gravity! Lol.

And btw. Can anyone confirm the mask allowing you to fix cars, the boat and the phonebox undetected? We all know about the shack, but I was unaware they added those undetected fixing things in.

Edited by Redrum138

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10 minutes ago, Redrum138 said:

And btw. Can anyone confirm the mask allowing you to fix cars, the boat and the phonebox undetected? We all know about the shack, but I was unaware they added those undetected fixing things in.

Uh yeah, if this is case, I'd like to know asap. 

Sorry should have scrolled up and seen who posted it. Pretty sure it only works for the shack, the guy who posted it doesn't actually play the game, so I'll wait on a better source.

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49 minutes ago, Slasher_Clone said:

Uh yeah, if this is case, I'd like to know asap. 

Sorry should have scrolled up and seen who posted it. Pretty sure it only works for the shack, the guy who posted it doesn't actually play the game, so I'll wait on a better source.

Right! Agreed, I've had the mask in my inventory with AJ post patch. Messed up a phone repair and Roy appeared close by. Idk, so we wait....

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12 hours ago, Redrum138 said:

I do fine with J4 as my guy, - shift for balance is peachy. If YOU want to change that then how bout this. Regular shift, - morph. Then while we're at it, let's get rid of that crappy water speed and instead give him -hit points. Because he did kill two in the water in 4, but he died at the end when Trish de-masked him. He was the last living (real) Jason. Part three was an axe to the head. Part 4 he was killed with a machete by Tommy, and the force of gravity! Lol.

Here's poll I did some time ago: http://forum.f13game.com/topic/17319-my-suggestion-for-part-4-new-tweaks/

12 hours ago, Redrum138 said:

And btw. Can anyone confirm the mask allowing you to fix cars, the boat and the phonebox undetected? We all know about the shack, but I was unaware they added those undetected fixing things in.

 

 

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3 hours ago, NoOneK9503 said:

Yeah, I read the other post about fixing Jason. I know you don't have the game, you get your info from videos and chatting on here. I hope you can get your hands on a copy sometime, you're obviously a huge fan and I respect that. But, I'm gonna say the -shift sucks. I know, he's my favorite so dear god do I know. But, I can deal with it. IMO I think -morph and regular shift would be ok on him, and be a little more representative of that Jason. And -hit points instead of slow water speed, anyway.... If you're using that slash n cast video for the base of your info for the mask allowing you to mess up a fix undetected, that's not the case. They only talk about detection when entering the shack for alerting Jason. Even with the mask in your inventory, if you miss a check in the repair mini game it will still alert Jason with a sound tick. Trust me on this one, I had it happen in game right after the most recent patch. @malloymk Was using Roy, I got his mask and tried to fix the phone and screwed up. He appeared almost instantly, maybe he remembers hearing the sound cue? Anyway, I hope you get the game sometime. If you get ps4 edition hit me up and we'll get some games in, lot's of cool people on there. I'm redrum138 on ps4, And I normally accept any forum users and try to get games when I can.

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On 2/23/2018 at 4:01 PM, Truth said:

I pulled this from another thread, but I feel it is also relevant here:

 

What's up with Roy's shift?

This is taken from here:

http://forum.f13game.com/topic/10596-the-playbook-techniques-and-strategies/?page=9

It might be because Roy is human. Maybe his Shift is slower because he doesn't have the full power of the real Jason?

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8 minutes ago, SnakeSound222 said:

It might be because Roy is human. Maybe his Shift is slower because he doesn't have the full power of the real Jason?

That's what I'm assuming. Had @Alkavian not done these test, we might not have known that they actually considered the fact he's not Jason. Everything else is pretty much the same.

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25 minutes ago, SnakeSound222 said:

It might be because Roy is human. Maybe his Shift is slower because he doesn't have the full power of the real Jason?

Roy's shift speed is good. His shift duration and recharge are gimped. This results in a shorter distance covered despite moving fast in shift and taking longer to recover.

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I'm fine with -Shift the way it is.

There are 8 Jasons to pick from (9 if you include Savini). They can't all be winners. Parts 2 and 4 have decent enough strengths to compensate. I don't have any issues leaving Part 7 as a dud Jason.

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I, personally, could do more with a slower shift at a normal recharge rate.  However, the double whammy  of slow shift/slow recharge is quite painful, especially when dealing with car escapes.  That's just my two, cents, though, and if it's ever bad enough, I can always choose another Jason.

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2 minutes ago, Peelman said:

I'm fine with -Shift the way it is.

There are 8 Jasons to pick from (9 if you include Savini). They can't all be winners. Parts 2 and 4 have decent enough strengths to compensate. I don't have any issues leaving Part 7 as a dud Jason.

Part 2 is perfect. Part 4, I don't think so.

+Can Run and +Destruction are not enough to compensate for such impactful weaknesses like -Shift and -Traps. If -Shift got replaced, he would be fine.

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