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How do you make the game enjoyable/Balanced for EVERYONE

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13 hours ago, stoney said:

I want the option to lone wolf as a repair person without dying nearly every game back. I want the option to not have to depend on another person for an effective escape.

Then you're not only playing the wrong game, you're playing the wrong fucking genre. This is an asymmetric PvP game, and apparently it's not for you.

As a counselor you're one of seven team-members up against one, count em one, opposing individual. If each one of you seven was able to effectively escape alone...why would Jason even bother? 1v1, you're supposed to be shit out of luck, the most basic game mechanic of the whole genre is balanced around that concept. Maybe Unreal Tournament would be more your speed.

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14 hours ago, A.J. Mason said:

This exactly illustrates my point. Its a video game and thus many people expect it to play out like a normal video game. 

However, as soon as they acquired the F13 license and made a game with Jason Voorhees as the killer, many fans expected the game to play out as close to the movies as possible. 

I'm not saying my perspective on the game is the right one. It's right for me. Yours is right for you and your perspective of the game. Bottom line is, it will likely never play exactly the way you want it to, nor will it play exactly the way I want. The question becomes, is it close enough for you to still enjoy playing it. 

No one complained about the way the item spawn was prior to the item spawn glitch - I'm not sure why it'd be an issue now. 

It gave the movie feel then, it should do the same now.

6 hours ago, ThePunkPirate said:

What exactly isnt fair? I keep hearing your bring this up and Ive seen you list a few of your ideas, but to me it just sounds like complaining. Maybe you thought this was a different type of game. Maybe it just isnt for you. 

Fact is, as Ive stated before, good players will do well, and bad players will do poorly.

Dont blame the game because you want to play a specific way and it doesnt work for you. Itd be like people complaining because they cant rush into a game like Dark Souls or Monster Hunter like they can Dynasty Warriors. Sometimes you need to change how YOU play instead of trying to change the game for you. Not everyone plays the same as you.

I made a whole thread about it here: link

I will blame the game, as it's unfairly forces people to utilize teamwork/communication to avoid a multitude of deaths.

5 hours ago, jameson87 said:

But there is always at least one to two survivors in the film. So i would say the game is pretty fair. Why should 5 to 7 escape everytime? That seems unfair and makes jason neutered. It should as hard as possible period.

I said it shouldn't be like the movies where all but 2 people die, as I've also said through this entire debate.

I never said 5-7 should escape each time either... that is indeed unfair for Jason. Consider reading my thread I linked above.

Fair is not like the movies, with logic and reasoning, you should be able to understand why.

1 hour ago, Dr. Lecter said:

Then you're not only playing the wrong game, you're playing the wrong fucking genre. This is an asymmetric PvP game, and apparently it's not for you.

As a counselor you're one of seven team-members up against one, count em one, opposing individual. If each one of you seven was able to effectively escape alone...why would Jason even bother? 1v1, you're supposed to be shit out of luck, the most basic game mechanic of the whole genre is balanced around that concept. Maybe Unreal Tournament would be more your speed.

Haven't we had this discussion before? You don't need to retell me something you've already explained.

It's 1v7 yes, but that doesn't mean team work is required because of those set numbers. You're assuming it means you have to utilize it in order to "play correctly" when that shouldn't be the case.

I never said everyone should be able to escape effectively alone, I said I would like the option back for myself, because I am experienced enough to know how to maneuver around Jason with an adequate amount of protection. 

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1 minute ago, stoney said:

No one complained about the way the item spawn was prior to the item spawn glitch - I'm not sure why it'd be an issue now. 

It gave the movie feel then, it should do the same now.

I made a whole thread about it here: link

I will blame the game, as it's unfairly forces people to utilize teamwork/communication to avoid a multitude of deaths.

I said it shouldn't be like the movies where all but 2 people die, as I've also said through this entire debate.

I never said 5-7 should escape each time either... that is indeed unfair for Jason. Consider reading my thread I linked above.

Fair is not like the movies, with logic and reasoning, you should be able to understand why.

Haven't we had this discussion before? You don't need to retell me something you've already explained.

It's 1v7 yes, but that doesn't mean team work is required because of those set numbers. You're assuming it means you have to utilize it in order to "play correctly" when that shouldn't be the case.

I never said everyone should be able to escape effectively alone, I said I would like the option back for myself, because I am experienced enough to know how to maneuver around Jason with an adequate amount of protection. 

I have read through, I am just of the opinion it should be as close to the source material as possible and not try to go to far in balance to neuter Jason. I just agree to disagree. We don't want this game to emulate others, we want it to emulate the movies as much as possible, or at least i and others do.

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11 minutes ago, jameson87 said:

I have read through, I am just of the opinion it should be as close to the source material as possible and not try to go to far in balance to neuter Jason. I just agree to disagree. We don't want this game to emulate others, we want it to emulate the movies as much as possible, or at least i and others do.

Regardless of the movies, she just wants more pocket knives so she can play without teamwork and survive...Which you already CAN do - so her whole argument is asinine.

It's not as easy as it was when they had way too many pocket knives on the map. But it's still very possible. I've fixed and started the car solo as Vanessa...Some teamwork would make that a lot easier to do. But it's hardly a requirement.

I'm sure the PS4 QP community is utter trash. But that's not the devs fault. If they wanna keep playing the game wrong, that's on the dumb players.

It's an asymmetric horror game. But she believes you should be able to best Jason in a 1 v 1...She doesn't get the core concept, therefore it skews her arguments.

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4 minutes ago, AldermachXI said:

I'm sure the PS4 QP community is utter trash. But that's not the devs fault. If they wanna keep playing the game wrong, that's on the dumb players.

Yeah there's a nice hand full of boneheads on the PS4 I'll agree with that

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47 minutes ago, AldermachXI said:

Regardless of the movies, she just wants more pocket knives so she can play without teamwork and survive...Which you already CAN do - so her whole argument is asinine.

It's not as easy as it was when they had way too many pocket knives on the map. But it's still very possible. I've fixed and started the car solo as Vanessa...Some teamwork would make that a lot easier to do. But it's hardly a requirement.

I'm sure the PS4 QP community is utter trash. But that's not the devs fault. If they wanna keep playing the game wrong, that's on the dumb players.

It's an asymmetric horror game. But she believes you should be able to best Jason in a 1 v 1...She doesn't get the core concept, therefore it skews her arguments.

Bingo. And yes you are right the QP community on PS4 is complete trash

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22 hours ago, DasMurich said:

I'm gonna have to go with Stoney on this. There is no teamwork in QP and no way for counselors to win. There has to be a way for each counselor to win by themselves and in small teams and as a whole team with and without communication. Jason mains who are total shit can't just keep going around and slaughtering lobbies and getting 8/8 but they still need a way to win also. 

I'd really like to see the developers bring back more pocket knives and balance it out like it was after July and before October but probably closer to the beginning of August with some December in there but adjusted for June. 

Why am I getting likes on this?

I think I'm the only one laughing sometimes. 

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1 hour ago, AldermachXI said:

I'm sure the PS4 QP community is utter trash. But that's not the devs fault. If they wanna keep playing the game wrong, that's on the dumb players.

"Trash" may be a bit harsh.  In terms of aggressive trolling, Jason Teaming, or exploits, I rarely see these things much anymore.

The larger issues, from my experience, include the lack of communication--only about half the lobbies have anyone with a mic in them, and underage players.  

The communication aspect is pretty self-explanatory.  As far as the underage players go, I've literally had a four or five year old playing the game while his parents coached him through what to do.  And before anyone says "how would you know the age of a kid?", I have two boys at home, ages 4 and 7, and this kid sounded far younger than my 4 year old (who is, admittedly a genius).  Apart from the lunacy of exposing a child to this game (no kid should be seeing the loading screens in this game) I don't think it's out of the realm of reason as a grown-ass adult to expect a certain level of sophistication when I'm playing a "Mature" title. 

Teens?  No problem.  But the filthiest gutter mouths in the community belong to the "kids".  They're annoying, contribute NOTHING to the game (they're not even worth the easy kills as Jason), and have no business playing the game, let alone even knowing who Jason is.  That's seriously messed up, and among the best arguments I've ever heard for universal free birth control.

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23 hours ago, stoney said:

Making it fair you mean? Do you want me to not take into consideration the thousands of players who aren't as skilled and experienced as me?

Yeah, because that's the way to do it.

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3 hours ago, Dr. Lecter said:

1v1, you're supposed to be shit out of luck, the most basic game mechanic of the whole genre is balanced around that concept. 

Yep. Friday the 13th in itself is a day of BAD luck. I am so tired of reading how some think you should be able to escape/survive on your own. Fair? Balanced? Not at Camp Blood. Jason has a pretty good win streak at home. The counselors were doomed. They were all doomed. In the films, which this game originally strived to emulate, one or two might survive. Barely.

I love scratching to survive. If you were put in those counselors shoes, you would not be so confident. You would be in very imminent danger and scared to death accordingly. It's a nightmare scenario that would send any survivor into hysterical shock, induce PTSD and haunt them for the rest of their lives. 

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At this point, the argument has to be advanced that there's no way to actually "make the game enjoyable/balanced for everyone".  There's too many variables.  The range of player ability is to wide, and there's no way to appease everyone.

It's like the old saying goes, "you can appease some of the people all of the time, or all of the people some of the time, but you'll never appease all of the people all of the time."

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2 minutes ago, Bropollocreed79 said:

At this point, the argument has to be advanced that there's no way to actually "make the game enjoyable/balanced for everyone".  There's too many variables.  The range of player ability is to wide, and there's no way to appease everyone.

It's like the old saying goes, "you can appease some of the people all of the time, or all of the people some of the time, but you'll never appease all of the people all of the time."

There will always be that one guy who will complain and hate everything 

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Oh also

"I want the balance to be fixed so that I, as a vanessa counselor, WILL escape every time independent of luck, map, Jason's skill level, etc.  I WANT that for this game!"

Real world:

 

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15 minutes ago, Bropollocreed79 said:

It's like the old saying goes, "you can appease some of the people all of the time, or all of the people some of the time, but you'll never appease all of the people all of the time."

Appeasement, you say?

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On 2/18/2018 at 1:59 PM, BeautyNumber2 said:

The current balance reflects the original goals and intentions for the game so it’s definitely a restoration of the original balance. There should be no more than 2 counselors survive EVER or Jason did not do his job, cut and dry. Ideally the game is balanced for one person to survive or one random person and someone returning as Tommy Jarvis, that’s it.

When I am the final girl (because I usually am) AKA survival legend Debbie Deb, I give the lobby a SHOW, a cinematic experience of surviving at all costs with the narrowest escapes and the gutsiest moves. It should be a spectacle to survive that has people SCREAMING at the screen. I’ve been in lobbies where I was being chased cabin to cabin for upwards of 10 minutes after everybody died against a phenomenal Jason, outwitting, outlasting, and limping away with a pan with seconds as I turn and clock Jason to barely survive. As soon as I can hear the lobby they are HOWLING at all the shenanigans and in disbelief of surviving against such an incredible Jason. That’s how this game is played, where players congratulate you, stunned, at the level of gameplay you brought, or the Jason messages you saying you were the best counselor to ever slip through his fingers, that’s the level of counselor you should be IMO. Who wants to survive against a non-canon mediocre Jason? Give me the best!

The standard is that you should be both incredibly lucky and resourceful to survive like the final characters in the films. Surviving as a counselor is NOT A GIVEN, DYING as a counselor is. You are expected to die!!! So surviving should be a great feat, not a walk in the park. This is Crystal Lake people what don’t some of yal get about that? 

The problem is mathematical.   If 1-2 only ever escape then it means your mean escape is <1.  If 1-2 escape on average, then it means you should have as many games with zero escapees as with 3-4.  If 1/2 is your max, then you will have so many games with zero escapees to counter the odd 1/2 escaping.  

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3 hours ago, AldermachXI said:

Regardless of the movies, she just wants more pocket knives so she can play without teamwork and survive...Which you already CAN do - so her whole argument is asinine.

It's not as easy as it was when they had way too many pocket knives on the map. But it's still very possible. I've fixed and started the car solo as Vanessa...Some teamwork would make that a lot easier to do. But it's hardly a requirement.

I'm sure the PS4 QP community is utter trash. But that's not the devs fault. If they wanna keep playing the game wrong, that's on the dumb players.

It's an asymmetric horror game. But she believes you should be able to best Jason in a 1 v 1...She doesn't get the core concept, therefore it skews her arguments.

Do you have a vendetta against me? It truly seems that way.

Yes you CAN survive without teamwork... it's just unlikely to happen against a competent Jason.

"too many pocketknives" 4-5 pocketknives is not "too many." It's how much there were before the item spawn glitch. 

I have repeatedly told you and others what I would like to see in this game.  You claiming "she believes you should be able to best Jason in a 1 v 1" just goes to show you never read my replies and instead comment just to anticipate reactions from me. Of course this was evident when the first time we argued you admitted to not reading my replies and instead you "knew" what I was I was going to say; even though you were dead wrong and debated over something I had already covered.  A very juvenile way to conduct yourself. :)

2 hours ago, Bropollocreed79 said:

At this point, the argument has to be advanced that there's no way to actually "make the game enjoyable/balanced for everyone".  There's too many variables.  The range of player ability is to wide, and there's no way to appease everyone.

It's like the old saying goes, "you can appease some of the people all of the time, or all of the people some of the time, but you'll never appease all of the people all of the time."

I'm quite sure it's mainly Private Match mains arguing with Quick Play mains over game mechanics and balance. The thing is, Quick Play holds much more of the consumer weight than those who primarily use PM. I feel they should alter the game balance to the largest majority of players and to befit the general skill level of those within it. I feel as if people on PC are more apt to use communication (thus having more skill) than those on console, but I don't think it's such a dramatic difference that it is practically two different worlds when compared. If this is indeed the case however, then like you have said, it will take a lot more brain storming to find a middle ground that will cater to all 3 platforms.

 

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Teamwork is necessary to escape, and should remain necessary. HOWEVER, the game does a very poor job of communicating to new and casual players that it is actually 7 versus 1. Many casual players think it is every one for themselves versus Jason.

The game needs a way to make it more clear that this is actually a 7 versus 1 game. Remember how everyone used to complain about Tommy players being incredibly selfish? Since the devs made it more clear that he was a hero character, we have had better Tommy's and a better gaming experience. They just need to do something like that with counsellors and voila.

As it is now, new players and casual players have nothing to work with. The lobby and player list screen just lists Jason and a bunch of randoms. The counsellor select screen does nothing to explain counsellors roles. Instead of a dropdown format it should have the counsellors listed on the left with a "VS" in the middle and the Jason player on the right. The counsellor select screen also has no explanation about character roles at all.

Hand holding is lame, but the game needs to give counsellors a nudge or two in the right direction. There's no issue with balance in QP, but there is a lack of understanding among many new and casual players that this is actually a team-oriented game (or at least escaping is).

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In my experience most Tommy players are still useless. This will always be the case unless you are playing in a lobby full of high level players. Tommy will go to one of the first to die, which usually but not always means one of the worst players in the lobby. Since there is no matchmaking system or ranking system (nor should there be one) this means that Tommy is usually level 10.

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18 minutes ago, CPLhicks31 said:

Teamwork is necessary to escape, and should remain necessary. HOWEVER, the game does a very poor job of communicating to new and casual players that it is actually 7 versus 1. Many casual players think it is every one for themselves versus Jason.

The game needs a way to make it more clear that this is actually a 7 versus 1 game. Remember how everyone used to complain about Tommy players being incredibly selfish? Since the devs made it more clear that he was a hero character, we have had better Tommy's and a better gaming experience. They just need to do something like that with counsellors and voila.

As it is now, new players and casual players have nothing to work with. The lobby and player list screen just lists Jason and a bunch of randoms. The counsellor select screen does nothing to explain counsellors roles. Instead of a dropdown format it should have the counsellors listed on the left with a "VS" in the middle and the Jason player on the right. The counsellor select screen also has no explanation about character roles at all.

Hand holding is lame, but the game needs to give counsellors a nudge or two in the right direction. There's no issue with balance in QP, but there is a lack of understanding among many new and casual players that this is actually a team-oriented game (or at least escaping is).

Forcing people to use communication is where the problem in itself arises. Causing people to have to use communication; it's basically mandatory now.

Asking people to purchase a mic, learn a different language, have their brain function like a competent individual, turn down their loud ass music, stop trolling, the list goes on - are all irrational expectations. You cannot expect people to make changes they are not apt to make.

Like @MichaelMemers said, I have also noticed no change in the way Jarvis players behave. They still waste their items within .5 seconds of spawning in and often die fast. This just goes to show that having a nice little message that promotes teamwork isn't going to change a damn thing. It was much simpler back when counselors had a sufficient amount of supplies...

There is an obvious issue with balance in the game itself, not just QP.  I've played Private Matches with level 100s+ yet we still limp to the finish line and we have excellent communication. (Granted most were great Jasons as well.)

This new game balance favors skilled and experienced players, not the opposite or those in the middle ground.

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14 minutes ago, stoney said:

"too many pocketknives" 4-5 pocketknives is not "too many." It's how much there were before the item spawn glitch. 

There already ARE 4 pocket knives including Tommy's. You're splitting hairs over ONE more pocket knife. 

Plus, something also tells me that adding one more pocket knife wouldn't be enough to shut you up. It wouldn't help your cause. It wouldn't help you survive any more than it does now. So your point is moot.

You've always been better off sticking close to another counselor, and always will be better off sticking close to another counselor. Teamwork is the answer and always will be. The sooner you figure that out, the better off you'll be.

You'd be amazed how being a team player yourself often rubs off on others in the server...How does that stupid saying snowflakes always use go? "Be the change you want to see in the world"?

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The game requires less communication now than it did in the past. Remember when key items didn't appear on the map so you had no way of knowing that the fuse was waiting for you at the phonebox?

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3 minutes ago, AldermachXI said:

There already ARE 4 pocket knives including Tommy's. You're splitting hairs over ONE more pocket knife. 

Plus, something also tells me that adding one more pocket knife wouldn't be enough to shut you up. It wouldn't help your cause. It wouldn't help you survive any more than it does now. So your point is moot.

You've always been better off sticking close to another counselor, and always will be better off sticking close to another counselor. Teamwork is the answer and always will be. The sooner you figure that out, the better off you'll be.

You'd be amazed how being a team player yourself often rubs off on others in the server...How does that stupid saying snowflakes always use go? "Be the change you want to see in the world"?

There are 2 or 3 then 3 or 4 including Tommy's.

Tommy Jarvis should not be accounted for, as most waste their items.

Something tells me you just want to bicker back and forth with me all day. Do you like me? How cute.

@MichaelMemers 

... Oh yeah sure. Because items appearing on the map now totally cancels out the need to have more communication when Jason is pursuing you and you die because you don't have a buddy to save you or enough protection. 

@Thatguyinktown 

..? That's not what I'm saying at all.

I'm saying the game is tailored to PRO players who could do with less items... also most PRO players (at least that I've seen) use some form of team-work in the first place.

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2 minutes ago, stoney said:

This new game balance favors skilled and experienced players, not the opposite or those in the middle ground.

What,  a game where experienced players have an upper hand against those who are new surprises You? That's true of all games, not just this one.

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2 minutes ago, stoney said:

There are 2 or 3 then 3 or 4 including Tommy's.

Tommy Jarvis should not be accounted for, as most waste their items.

Something tells me you just want to bicker back and forth with me all day. Do you like me? How cute.

So again...we're back to "Players play the game wrong. So instead of them learning (adapting ;) )we should just throw in more knives"

You're a silly person. It's not only me who disagrees with you. It's just about everyone.

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