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VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow

[Video] Combat Adjustments and Ideas

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I made a video where I talk about some ideas for the combat in F13 now that the weapon swap feature has been revealed. I apologize for the wacky audio. Otherwise, enjoy.

 

Oh and believe it or not, I'm actually wearing spruce green but it looks like I'm wearing blue thanks to the LIGHTING. :D No joke.

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5 hours ago, Slasher_Clone said:

Combat Stance for counselors upgrade, unarmed combat. By entering Combat Stance without a weapon a counselor would still be able to fight. (This wouldn't work on Jason, he's to stronge). By pressing your attack button in Combat Stance your counselor would throw a punch or kick, by holding it they would either push the character in front of them, shoving them away and making them stumble a few feet or throw a kick resulting in the same effect. Anyone else have an idea for unarmed Combat, feel free to post it below.

Moved this over from Offline/Private Counselor Mode, a thread I'm working on. Thought it might be useful in this thread too. The part in brackets is for the mode in question, it would have to be tossed out in a regular match, or the only people to fight would be teammates. Cool video.

 

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I like all the ideas except the stab motion where you hold both block and attack to perform it. I don't see it necessary for stopping counselor attack when we already have a block function. 

 

 

 

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These are some pretty cool ideas. You should look up a youtuber named "Skallagrim" for some ideas on weapon techniques; the devs could really benefit from some of the ideas.

First off, I don't want to sound nitpicky, but the way you were showing a thrust attack using the machete made me cringe. The amateur way to stab someone with a dagger/sword/etc is bending your wrist forward while thrusting the blade towards the target. That method puts serious strain on the wrist, and if the blade didn't puncture what you were trying to stab, the recoil can cause serious pain or even break your wrist if you're unlucky (and yes, I know about rapiers, but that's a whole discussion on its own). Edit: Here's a video for something better.

Small problem aside, what I would like to add is the possibility that some weapon's power attacks could be several strikes at once rather than just one heavy swing. For example, when using the spear, one of the power attacks could be Jason quickly piercing his victim several times in a row (let's say three times, and it does the same amount of damage as the other power attacks). The windup time would be the same, but it would spice things up rather than every weapon's power attack be "Jason just swings his weapon reaaalllly hard at someone." In the spear's case, non-combat stance would be the single handed thrust attack with a multi-strike power attack, whereas combat stance would be two handed thrust attack (with more range than non combat) as well as the horizontal staff bash attack for combat control.

Also, I like the idea with a "defensive attack" that you could use directly from blocking animations. I wonder if the devs have considered the possibility of getting rid of block to insert more defensive attacks. For instance, the spear's combat stance power attack I mentioned earlier, and the axe could be used to strike someone in the face with the hilt to momentarily stun them (at the cost of the range being shorter for obvious reasons). It would encourage more offense from Jason, differentiate the weapons more (some weapons being balanced, more offensive strikes, more crowd control, etc.), and really make each Jason feel more different when you factor in the strengths/weaknesses.

I hope the devs see this, because quite frankly there's a lot of potential for weapon combat in this game. Jason really needs a way to deal with counselors ganging up on him, and introducing new variations of attacks to go with the different weapons would be nice. Heck, if I remember correctly, one of the devs even compared this game to the Dark Souls series which featured all kinds of different attack animations.

Edited by Trident77

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5 hours ago, Loading said:

I like all the ideas except the stab motion where you hold both block and attack to perform it. I don't see it necessary for stopping counselor attack when we already have a block function.

Yes I can live without the devensive stab. It would probably be enough to have power attacks outside of combat stance and crowd control attacks.

4 hours ago, bewareofbears said:

@VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow

The effort put into this is above and beyond. Wow. :)

@ShiftySamurai @GunMedia_Ben @[IllFonic]Courier @Gertz

I know you guys hate being tagged but the video in the OP deserves a watch, even if only for the effort.

Thanks. I hate to tag the devs because it is my hope that the quality of my work would be good enough to get their attention.

2 hours ago, Trident77 said:

These are some pretty cool ideas. You should look up a youtuber named "Skallagrim" for some ideas on weapon techniques; the devs could really benefit from some of the ideas.First off, I don't want to sound nitpicky, but the way you were showing a thrust attack using the machete made me cringe. The amateur way to stab someone with a dagger/sword/etc is bending your wrist forward while thrusting the blade towards the target. That method puts serious strain on the wrist, and if the blade didn't puncture what you were trying to stab, the recoil can cause serious pain or even break your wrist if you're unlucky (and yes, I know about rapiers, but that's a whole discussion on its own). Edit: Here's a video for something better.

It's for demonstration purposes only. Obviously Jason has had years of HEMA instruction and such a thing would never happen to him. I could only book Roy for this video, and, well, I didn't want to correct a man holding a large razor sharp blade.

2 hours ago, Trident77 said:

Small problem aside, what I would like to add is the possibility that some weapon's power attacks could be several strikes at once rather than just one heavy swing. For example, when using the spear, one of the power attacks could be Jason quickly piercing his victim several times in a row (let's say three times, and it does the same amount of damage as the other power attacks). The windup time would be the same, but it would spice things up rather than every weapon's power attack be "Jason just swings his weapon reaaalllly hard at someone." In the spear's case, non-combat stance would be the single handed thrust attack with a multi-strike power attack, whereas combat stance would be two handed thrust attack (with more range than non combat) as well as the horizontal staff bash attack for combat control.

Also, I like the idea with a "defensive attack" that you could use directly from blocking animations. I wonder if the devs have considered the possibility of getting rid of block to insert more defensive attacks. For instance, the spear's combat stance power attack I mentioned earlier, and the axe could be used to strike someone in the face with the hilt to momentarily stun them (at the cost of the range being shorter for obvious reasons). It would encourage more offense from Jason, differentiate the weapons more (some weapons being balanced, more offensive strikes, more crowd control, etc.), and really make each Jason feel more different when you factor in the strengths/weaknesses.

I hope the devs see this, because quite frankly there's a lot of potential for weapon combat in this game. Jason really needs a way to deal with counselors ganging up on him, and introducing new variations of attacks to go with the different weapons would be nice. Heck, if I remember correctly, one of the devs even compared this game to the Dark Souls series which featured all kinds of different attack animations.

Counselors getting quickly multi-stabbed would probably get more backlash than any combat change. They'd get stuck in a long attack animation that they couldn't break out of. I tried to keep my ideas in line with what we already have, but just filling out some empty spaces in the control scheme.

Thanks for the kind words, I'm glad you liked it.

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Like the idea of a wide crowd control swing, but if it gave a larger attack cone, wouldn't everyone use it all the time to cover more area on their hits?

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5 hours ago, FunMonster said:

Like the idea of a wide crowd control swing, but if it gave a larger attack cone, wouldn't everyone use it all the time to cover more area on their hits?

Being a wide attack, it would be less ideal in close quarters. It would have a small "wind-up" period, so that it would be easier to evade if you're simply running from Jason. It would be for dealing with 2 or more people ganging up on you. Time it just when they miss an attack to hit them while they are in the swing recovery animation, or when you see them running straight at you with obvious intent to attack.

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I have an idea/suggestion for the game. Allow a pair of couselors near a bed to have sex for in game points. This could set off an alarm (sound or whatever) to the Jason player who has time to receive a double kill bonus if he finds them. The longer the player are under the sheets, the more points they get.

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16 minutes ago, C0updegrace said:

I have an idea/suggestion for the game. Allow a pair of couselors near a bed to have sex for in game points. This could set off an alarm (sound or whatever) to the Jason player who has time to receive a double kill bonus if he finds them. The longer the player are under the sheets, the more points they get.

Lmao

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Buggzy should use Dropkick to Jason , you have to sprint for at least 4 seconds , move towards Jason , when button shows , press it , and knock Jason. 

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22 hours ago, FunMonster said:

Like the idea of a wide crowd control swing, but if it gave a larger attack cone, wouldn't everyone use it all the time to cover more area on their hits?

I would imagine it could have either:

a. A "cooldown" period of reasonable length to discourage overuse and abuse, or

b. A slower "charge-up" animation like Voorhees said in order to allow Counselors time to dodge it

Either way, I concur that Jason needs some kind of crowd-control attack to avoid the kind of "wolf-pack" tactics I often see him fall victim to. I hope the Devs see the vid.

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Could make it so the crowd control move can only be used if standing still. That would stop people using it all the time, just when surrounded. 

Another problem though is that some of the weapons are quite long. The fence spike would have a massive range

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@VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow I have 2 additional ways of improving Jason's combat and attacks.

1st. Less cooldown between each time you slash.

2nd. And individual button for block. In PS4 for example, there's no use for the R1 button outside of CS. If we put the "block" here, the Jason players will defend themselves more easily against armed counselors.

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8 hours ago, xennial446 said:

I would imagine it could have either:

a. A "cooldown" period of reasonable length to discourage overuse and abuse, or

b. A slower "charge-up" animation like Voorhees said in order to allow Counselors time to dodge it

Either way, I concur that Jason needs some kind of crowd-control attack to avoid the kind of "wolf-pack" tactics I often see him fall victim to. I hope the Devs see the vid.

It would have a mild wind-up and cool down. I take back what I said in the video, 8 seconds is probably too long of a cooldown. Maybe 3 seconds. All current melee attacks take less than a second to go from start to finish, the crowd control attack would be slightly longer at about 1 full second.

7 hours ago, FunMonster said:

Could make it so the crowd control move can only be used if standing still. That would stop people using it all the time, just when surrounded. 

Another problem though is that some of the weapons are quite long. The fence spike would have a massive range

That's why I chose to have the combo be "combat stance + back/down + hold attack." Jason wouldn't be able to advance forward while doing it. The range of the long weapons wouldn't be any longer of course, it would just cover a wide area around Jason, and it wouldn't be the best thing to do in a crowded area because the weapon would get stuck on or bounce off of the environment. The shorter weapons would have a little more efficiency in close quarters, but would not have as much range, and it would be very slightly slower, so I think it would be balanced. They could always tweak the speed of the crowd control attack per-weapon to find the right balance.

1 hour ago, NoOneK9503 said:

@VoorheesAJollyGoodFellow I have 2 additional ways of improving Jason's combat and attacks.

1st. Less cooldown between each time you slash.

2nd. And individual button for block. In PS4 for example, there's no use for the R1 button outside of CS. If we put the "block" here, the Jason players will defend themselves more easily against armed counselors.

I disagree with the first. Counselors can already get stun locked if Jason rapidly attacks them over and over. The only hope is to hold sprint and pray that you get out through luck.

The second, I agree to a degree. A non-combat stance block should be a "parry" which would negate stuns(from attacks coming from his left) but would be less effective at blocking damage, so while Jason could more fluidly deal with counselors, he'd still be at risk of getting demasked.

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Heh, it feels like several of us are reviving threads ever since @Alkavian started posting on his "Mix of ideas" thread. I just recently revived mine too.

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7 hours ago, Trident77 said:

Heh, it feels like several of us are reviving threads ever since @Alkavian started posting on his "Mix of ideas" thread. I just recently revived mine too.

Keeping the dreams alive. LOL.

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