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CPLhicks31

The Wasted Potential of Part 7 and Part 9

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Obviously the wasted opportunity that was Jason Takes Manhattan gets discussed often, but I just rewatched part 7 and had similar thoughts.

It's not, but it could have been one of the better Friday films. A very cool Jason and a decent plot about a troubled girl trying to figure out her trauma, some semi-developed characters better than many of the films (Nick, Melissa). Potential for other great characters like the doctor and the writer teen, but the film whiffs with these characters. 

The half-baked psychic plot and lower budget camp setting seems to bog the film down and make it run like a tv movie. It's too bad though because the movie has a lot going for it. In particular, a very badass Jason, a semi-interesting assortment of teens, and a plot that could have been very dark and complex. It almost seems like they used the plot that they originally planned for Ginny or Chris from Parts 2 and 3, which would have been way better. Instead, Tina comes across as rushed and the psychic aspect is yawn-worthy.

I really wish they dropped the psychic aspect and brought Jason into a more realistic cocktail of trauma, with a final girl more grounded and less vulnerable. He could have been the xenomorph to a new Ripley in this film, but instead he and Tina hardly seem like a match.The film feels thrown together, but it could have been the best Friday yet.

  I felt similar about part 9, an awful movie (worse than part 7 by a mile), but if Creighton Duke had popped up in a different film to try and rally some teens against Jason, we could have had a classic. 

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@CPLhicks31 I agree with you on both movies. Part 7 had some of the best character development in the series, but the bargain bin Carrie aspect they threw in there just ruined the film for me. It is a shame too, because Kane Hodder made me actually believe that Jason was pissed in this one, and not just a mindless killing machine. He was straight up mad! I know a lot of people love TIna's character, but I felt that she was the worst part of it. So much potential, so little pay-off.

Part 9...oh part 9. The bastard child of the Friday series. The opening was great, and the ending was pretty damn cool. It was that wasted hour and a half in between that just made you sit back and go, "What the fuck did I just watch?" I agree with you on Duke. A great character that could have been so much more in a different movie. He is actually one of my favorites from the entire franchise. He just happened to have been in the one Friday flick that I rarely watch. I have them all on BluRay and DVD, and I almost never pop that one in. It is a shame. Another case of wasted potential.

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Part 9 had no potential. It was garbage- nothing was wasted. All of it was there...

I'm not a fan of Creighton Duke myself. He's interesting in a bad movie but would have been bad in an interesting movie.

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Wasn't John Carl Buechler the one that admitted he wasnt a fan of the series? I feel like he was and he wanted to ultimately kill Jason. I have to watch the documentary again. Either way, you can't expect much from the guy that directed Ghoulies 3. He does great special effects, has a nice catalog of films under him there such as From Beyond and some of the Nightmare on Elm Street. 

I agree with @CPLhicks31 and @Rexfellis that this movie was set up with potential. The whole psychic shtick was completely unnecessary and stupid. Had a couple good kills, but the psychic plot ruins this one all together. 

As for JGTH, good soundtrack. Love the beginning before Jason gets shot. Creighton Duke is bad ass and kind of crazy which makes him unpredictable and fun. He had certain charisma. Would have made a better Gunslinger than Idris Elba for sure. And I like Voorhees Manor. That's it from this. The idea of trying to make Jason a Deadite, involving Lovecraft or Evil Dead, however you want to take the Necronomicon being in there, was one of the dumbest ideas to me, ever. Fucking demon worms in a summer camp slasher flick... no thanks. Eating the heart and transferring it. Pointless homoerotic shave scene to break cliches and leave the director's mark, no thanks. I still hate Jason X the most(the production value and awful CGI kill me), but this is s close second. 

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I've never liked Part 7. Poorly developed characters, over censored kills, unintentionally funny moments, bad acting, telekinesis, etc. There's just nothing likable about it at all. Part 9 is okay, it's just so weird and makes no sense. I like The Duke but that's about where it ends for me. 

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i guess i disagree with everyone here.I liked both of these,though Part 8 is still my favorite.(I already said why in a different topic,so i won't go into that here)

WIth Part 7,it often gets compared to Carrie,which i have never seen,and nor have i read the original book.As a result,the only comparison i have to using powers and such to throw stuff around the room or do damage to people,comes from stuff like X-Men,the Resident Evil movies,and Star Wars.As a result,i didn't mind this in a Friday The 13th movie,since the movies became more supernatural in nature since Part 6.I will agree that not all the characters were fully developed.I did like the fact that Doctor Crews had his own agenda,and he even knew the legend of Jason,which we find out when Tina ransacks his desk and finds the newspaper articles Crews has on Jason.I also thought Tina's mom was shown as a very caring mom who was trying to help her daughter deal with all the problems in their lives,which was nice,so it was sad to see her die.

With Jason Goes to Hell,I did like the fact an attempt was made to explain why Jason never dies.Too many newspaper critics often whine about horror movies,making the point "Why go see this piece of garbage?The killer never dies,he will come back in the next one for no apparant reason,so it's useless to cheer the heroes in the movie." I often hated when critics said that,but i did always want an explanation given at some point to point out to critics "Ok,THIS is why it's happenning.Shut up and enjoy the movie already!"...lol Duke was an interesting character,and i felt that Jessica's mom was fleshed out enough that you could relate to her,though it would have been nice if the backstory about Duke had made it into the films(Adam Marcus said at the end,he was going to have Duke tell Jessica a backstory that his dad and fiancee were killed by Jason at some point,but he survived and was hunting Jason since.Sadly,they never used that idea in the finished movie.) I liked the Book of the Dead being in the movie,since they later used in in the Freddy VS Jason VS Ash comics,with i have the graphic novels of,but it would have been nice to know why the Crate from Creepshow was in the basement of the Voorhees house.I will agree though,i wish Jason was in the movie longer.

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Part 9 could've been (mostly) saved if they would've made it so that instead of Jason body swapping, the person he possesses slowly goes into a cocoon state and slowly metamorphosizes  into Jason. That way he only has to possess the coroner, and then for most of the movie, he's Jason. The advantage of this would be that taking over a new body and changing it into his own renders him youthful and removes past injuries. I got the idea from a real fan dividing Spider-Man storyline in the comics called "The Other" where Peter Parker dies, comes back to life in a cocoon, and comes out with new powers and healed bodily injuries. So for the rest of the movie, Jason resembles Part 3 Jason and has an undeformed baby face (aside from the drooping eye and gaping front tooth) and whenever he gets dragged to Hell at the end, his body dissolves and then Freddy takes his mask. There's my idea on how to save Jason Goes to Hell

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I agree with most of these comments about Part 7 being mostly wasted potential. It had a great looking Jason and an interesting cast of characters but the kills were censored to death and the psychic plot was so weird and half baked.

Part 9 could have been one of the best movies if that body hopping plot never happened and they didn’t introduce Jason’s half sister and make her seem like she was a big deal, only to kill her off like thirty minutes in. It’s a shame because Creighton Duke was a really interesting character, the gore was fantastic, and I genuinely believe that Steven is the second best male lead in the series behind Tommy. He was way better than Jessica.

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   I liked part 7 mostly due to the performance of Kane Hodder. The make up effects on Jason were also incredible. In the documentary: His Name Was Jason, they do mention this was the most heavily censored film in the franchise. But it still had some inventive kills that were pulled off well. The best part of the story was simple: it was different.
   Part 9 could have been a much better movie. Some great kills and well done gore for the time, however. Creighton Duke was the best part of this movie in my opinion. I did like the reference to the Necronomicon that sat gathering dust in the Voorhees house, but they could have explained it better. How many other ways could you explain Jason's resurrection? I was not expecting an explanation when I first saw it, but this was as good as any.
   The Evil Dead did, of course take inspiration from Lovecraft. But Lovecraft himself took his inspiration from Aleister Crowley, that's right, Mr. Crowley himself. Surprisingly enough, trying to find out what year Crowley's Necronomicon was published is maddeningly frustrating (even more frustrating than being chain stunned as Jason), but I can still remember in about 1980 when an old friend introduced me to Lovecraft and to Crowley's works. We were looking through the list of titles from both authors at a Coles book store in a rather large and ominous looking tome of book titles for order. That was the first time I ever saw any reference to the Necronomicon, but the price to order was way too much for us. Instead we ordered what Lovecraft title we could get. (one novella was all we could afford at the time. I believe it was The Lurking Fear).
   I found a site that says you can download a free copy of Crowley's Necronomicon here: https://darkbooks.org/pp.php?v=194399448#book_description (I have not tried the link myself as I already have a PDF copy of it, gifted to me by the above mentioned friend). There is another called Simon's Necronomicon (published in 1977 it is thought Simon is actually Peter Lavenda although he has never admitted or denied it) that you can read online here: https://issuu.com/grupodeestudosfernandodeogum/docs/necronomicon_-_aleister_crowley
   Read at your own peril. My friend did go nuts before he died many years ago. My sanity is fine, however. Don't expect to raise the dead, though I have never tried.... I have doubts it would end well. As Crowley stated in Magik Without Tears: "Magik is like cooking, you follow a recipe and get an end product. But without the knowledge to understand you could never control it." Not an exact quote but as close as I can remember, its been many years since reading that one.
    (Just kidding..... my friend didn't really go nuts before he died.)

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The wasted potential for  Part 7 was if I recall correctly, part 7 was supposed to be Freddy vs Jason but New Line and Paramount couldn't come to an agreement. It would've been cool to see Robert and Kane in their primes playing Freddy and Jason but you can't always get what you want. Part 7, to me at least, is probably one of the darkest Friday films in terms of tone and music. Just the theme after the Crazy Ralph intro is very powerful. The chorus when Tina would use her powers is creepy as well.

With Part 9, I think it was a result of treading new territory along with slasher fatigue at the movies at the time. You have to look at it from the filmmakers' perspective. You have a character that has been killed, resurrected and taken to Manhattan because part 6, you had to do new things to keep the series afloat or being accused of doing nothing new. It's a no-win scenario. It's also a product of it's time too. It's also a nod to various horror films when you had the dagger and Necronomicon from Evil Dead 2, the crate from Creepshow, the jungle gym from the last fight is from the Birds and of course Freddy's glove taking Jason's mask to hell. Adam Marcus said those things were gags. In the commentary for Jason goes to Hell, he said at the scene with Freddy's glove they never intended to have it set up for Freddy vs Jason, it was just a gag.

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I actually love Part 7. As others have said, Jason looks pretty much the best he ever has, but it had an actual plot with character development, and an exciting clash of powers you don't normally see in a horror movie. It was something different, and to be honest, psychic girl vs. unstoppable brute is more fun than Freddy vs. Jason as a set up to me (at least here there's an obvious good guy to root for).

It did feel heavily censored though. Especially that whole plot with Dr Crews knowing about Jason that went nowhere...

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17 hours ago, Beetlejuice91 said:

The wasted potential for  Part 7 was if I recall correctly, part 7 was supposed to be Freddy vs Jason but New Line and Paramount couldn't come to an agreement. It would've been cool to see Robert and Kane in their primes playing Freddy and Jason but you can't always get what you want. Part 7, to me at least, is probably one of the darkest terms of tone and music. Just the theme after the Crazy Ralph intro is very powerful. The chorus when Tina would use her powers is creepy as well.

With Part 9, I think it was a result of treading new territory along with slasher fatigue at the movies at the time. You have to look at it from the filmmakers' perspective. You have a character that has been killed, resurrected and taken to Manhattan because part 6, you had to do new things to keep the series afloat or being accused of doing nothing new. It's a no-win scenario. It's also a product of it's time too. It's also a nod to various horror films when you had the dagger and Necronomicon from Evil Dead 2, the crate from Creepshow, the jungle gym from the last fight is from the Birds and of course Freddy's glove taking Jason's mask to hell. Adam Marcus said those things were gags. In the commentary for Jason goes to Hell, he said at the scene with Freddy's glove they never intended to have it set up for Freddy vs Jason, it was just a gag.

Correct! Part 7 came about because they couldn't finalise a deal to do Freddy vs Jason. The whole Tina with telekinetic powers was a last minute plot pitch to fill a script for another Friday 13th film that was ready to go into production. The script writers wanted a Jason vs someone plot and needed it to be of special potential, they couldn't use the intended Freddy nor any other existing villain so they created the character Tina. The rest of the film characters and plot then fitted around the protagonist and antagonist. Its amazing to think the script writers came up with a total change of plan at such short notice when in many cases film production just stops and they count the cost of lost money. Despite its last minute bodged plot they came up with a pretty solid and intense film. Yes you could argue the budget seemed less than those previous or that it was a missed opportunity - but remember it was an opportunity they took a last minute gamble on that paid off.

If the writers threw in the towel and gave up we would never have seen Tina with telekentic powers vs Jason, there would be no dark plot, there would be missed memorable deaths or characters. Remember without part vii there would be no Melissa! And no beloved by all Mean Girl trope with class in the franchise! (I don't count Tamarra or whatever her name was later on). We would be one great film less in the series and would have been an even longer wait for another film. Parts viii and ix may not have even happened and the F13 franchise might have be mothballed and forgotten. Even if they did get it together for the intended Freddy vs Jason would it have been the Freddy vs Jason we got later?

This is all speculation, but whatever you think of part vii we are lucky to have had it filmed at all! The F13 universe would be that bit blander too. @Barbara Ann wouldn't have run the most popular counsellor thread on the forum without the inspiration and mean girl character of part vii too!

My only dislike about part vii really is the unfathomable censorship of character deaths, that is of course out of the film creators hands. Hypothetically speaking if part vii was the intended Freddy vs Jason it too would have been similarly censored. That and if Melissa survived to build a friendship with Tina at the end since she survived nearly all the way through the film.

 

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