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Slasher_Clone

Offline/Private Counselor Mode - not just zombies ?

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This part has been added for clarity. The purposes of this thread is to discuss the various ways that offline or private counselor matches could be done. If also contains suggestions for other modes that could be experimented with. I think there's a lot more that could be suggested, so if you have an idea, please post it. 

The rest of this first post/page are discussing one specific idea, a Night of the Living Dead mode. It is quite a long read and tries to do something different with the game. The rest of the modes starting on the next page are not nearly as long and stick closer (for the most part) to the core of F13. 

I hope you enjoy reading them. 

 

So I've been kicking around this idea, even mentioned parts of if in the Nintendo map thread, but I think I should just write it out and see what you all think. It's just an idea, so don't be too upset, just give your criticism(or not) and move on. 

I love Friday the 13th the game, the independent nature of its creation is part of that. There are few properties that generate the same level of fandom from independent beginnings. One of these properties is Night of the Living Dead, and it just so happens to be in the public domain. Basically any one can build something in that universe without fear of legal repercussions. The popularity of zombies can be attributed to this legal freedom. This game we all enjoy was incredibly lucky to even exist, the rights issues alone are staggering and anything that is made in it's world is gravy in my opinion. It can be more than what it is though, without losing anything it can grow and change. Not everyone has to like everything, or play what they don't want to, but options are good for longevity. If this was single player it wouldn't even be a concern for online play, it would just be a map exploring mode with minor zombie annoyances. With it set on easy there would be a set number of them to contend with, normal difficulty they would group up and keep spawning, and on hard mode the rate of spawn would simply increase as time when on, or you could select fast zombies that could run a short distance. As a private match multiplayer mode they could be added as a change of pace for experienced groups, or be added to a match with Jason as moving obstacles for the counselors. Jason would also want to avoid decapation as it would mean no zombie player. As a DLC it would generate some income, and not effect players who have no interest in expanding the game.

Zombie players, rather than escaping or leaving a lobby at death players could have some PvP back in the game in a fair and more balanced way. Zombie players wouldn't look any different than the bot zombies but would be way more dangerous without being over powered. You could still bash them down with a weapon while avoiding bites but they would wait outside windows, group up to destroy doors and have intelligence to plan using the bots as cover.

The atmosphere in the camps, the mechanics of barricading doors, fear effects, bots and many different looks for counselors, all the things that would be needed are waiting. In the original movie it's just a group of strangers trying to survive, they barricade doors, hide and sometimes fight back. Each of these things can be accomplished with little change to the existing game world. The big house maps would be a lot of fun with extra threats wandering the map, without Jason you could have 7(8, Tommy) counselors vs 1 player zombie at the start. Host would select the number of bot zombies in the lobby. The zombie players would attempt to stop escape, by using the bots as helpers. Killing a counselor player turns them into a zombie player, unless Tommy is called. If Tommy has been called he is randomly selected as normal, but he brings friends with him as the dead counselor players also return as zombies players now. Their old bodies stand back up and it's a new game, eat your friends. 

 

-Things that could or would need to be added

A grab and bite attack, unarmed attack to damage doors/windows using the prompts for Jason.

The ability to crawl for some bots or player antagonists. 

Maybe some new skins, but really using the existing bloody skins or amputee skins could work.

Extra barricading features would be nice, and cross over with the regular game well. 2by4's, nailguns, hammers/nails have all been suggested in other threads. 

 

-New Zombie Player Powers, using as many mechanisms that already exist as possible

Sense Life, works just like Jason's sense power but houses don't light up, just counselors. Sense based obviously.

Shepherd, lets you call zombies together in a mob around you, they follow along unless distracted by counselors or another use of Shepherd, thirty foot radius around the player zombie. If you lead them to a cabin they will attack the same objective as the player zombie, so if you attack the door they will attempt to break it down even after you stop, letting you slip away to guard windows or the backdoor. If the players escape you would activate Shepherd again and start a pursuit, or leave them attacking the cabin as you chase the escaping counselor alone. If you lead bots to an objective like the car or phone fuse you can set them to guard it by using you action button, zombies are the trap they don't place them. (Players can bear trap zombies, there is no escape from them if your a bot, a player zombie needs to use the next power to get away.)

Possession, lets you use a form of shift to change zombie bodies. Basically you fly around the map till you run into a zombie not controlled by another player. This power is used for moving around the map so it lasts until cancelled. If you end the power before running into a bot zombie and no bot zombie is close to you(same thirty foot radius), a new body pulls itself from the earth. Your old body becomes a zombie bot and does what it would normally do head for noise. The number of unearthed bodies you can create is set to the limit of zombies that are allowed to spawn on the map, or a set number per player zombie, three maybe. You can possess a zombie in a cabin but not unearth one, these have the same limitations as trap placement, as the hole effect will only be a re-skin of the trap leaves. With an animation of you standing up, like when you jump out a window. Shift based power, could be used in other potential modes as well. Unearthing is the name I'm using for the animation of rising from the ground. 

Raise the Dead, allows a zombie player once per match to summon the Living Dead from the ground around a target car or cabin. Twenty foot circle in front of the players zombie, placement is random, and any damage they have incurred is still present. If the max number of zombies on the map exist, those farthest away from players crumble to the ground. The number of them that spawn via unearthing is controlled by the number of counselors present, and the counselor players luck total or some other balancing equation. This would best be saved for the end game or car escapes, it's not meant to over power the counselors, just give the Zombie players a way to Morph in some friends. 

 

-The Car and the Boat/Swimming 

The Car. 

The car is a problem. Working out how to stop the car could maybe be a forum problem. I do have some ideas but they maybe might over power the zombies. This one might work for now Shift/Flying into it with possession and the smash happening automatically, then a zombie unearthing right in front (doesn't use one of the players unearthed bodies if a smash happens and they are limited). The car will be the ultimate zombie bot killer, and I'm sure players would love to get their GTA on. 

The Boat/Swimming.

Swimming works just like for Jason, the in game reason is the water is filled with zombies and the zombie players can move around under the surface of the water. When they flip the boat or drowned a player it is a random zombie that does the deed. Swimming would also give the zombie players a way to switch back to their preferred counselor body, you enter the water walking or with possession, and when you climb out your back in the body you selected in the lobby.

-Perks

Some Perks work for zombie players, and could even give them certain surprise advantages. The Sneaky perk that lets you climb through windows faster for example, could allow a zombie player to climb through windows(unless window barricades are added, zombies without the perk can't use windows). Thick Skinned, tougher zombies. Friendship, more damage when using Shepherd. Feel free to come up with your own below. Here's a list of all the perks, https://fridaythe13th.gamepedia.com/Perks. Some Perks would just not work, it would be interesting to see the meta in this mode though.

-Items

Firecrackers, these attract zombie bots, and can stun zombie players. 

Med. Spray, works as normal, but doesn't heal bite damage. You can be infected, and change. 

Pocket Knife, allows one escape from grab as per normal but can also be used to kill a player Zombie. Head shot instead of neck, needs new animations. To kill a zombie player you have to assume Combat Stance with no weapon equipped, then attempt to get close and strike. 

Weapons, these work as normal you beat zombies down, they break as per normal, you find more and repeat. Zombies are hard to kill, pieces will be smashed off before they run out of health, the Devs will have to balance this part, it's just too big to do here. Player and bot zombies are restricted from using weapons (Yes, the zombies in Night used tools but crudely, and it would make it unbalanced.)

Car/Boat Parts, the zombies can and will pick these up and carry them with them. Sometimes they will take them to a vehicle and stand around waiting like they are remembering their past life(higher the repair skill the more likely it is to happen). Or they could wander in to the graveyard making a pile just to create a different goal point, when zombies pick up parts they appear on the large map still, allowing counselor players to track them. 

 

Zombie players would have a set a set number of lives. In a non re-spawning game you'd run out of bodies, and unearth all the extras your allowed. In a game with a set re-spawn they could just keep coming back, so to make it possible to kill them permanently you have to stab them in the head with a Pocket Knife, this should be hard to do, possibly requiring the Zombie Player to be stunned first or have run out of unearthed bodies. It should be risky to take out the Zombie players but maybe one of you can come up with something fair?

So yeah that's a lot to digest, and I've tried not to go on to many tangents. I'd appreciate feedback, and will probably add more just cause it's a fun idea.   If you like any part of this, or would change anything let me know.

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Just gonna pop this over in Suggestions/Feedback. Hope you get some good replies :)

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 @DamonD7. Thanks, that's where it was supposed to go.

Figure I'll add some more ideas while I have time.

Shotguns - If limited in number these should be able to Kill a zombies player. They are the most powerful weapon in the game. The zombie player needs to avoid the shotguns until he has changed at least some of the counselor players have been bitten and changed. You can still unearth a new body if you have one but they run out.

Flaregun - Can be used to stun the zombie player same as it works on Jason, this and the firecrackers allow you to get close enough to go into Combat Stance and pocket knife them in the head. 

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I like this idea but I fear the "purists" will crap all over this. I would support this idea though. Good ideas.

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if this gets made,i'd like to see an offline bots mode where you play as a counselor and you have to either kill all the zombie bots or escape the map.This would make a nice 2 player co-op offline mode for counselors.I'd love to see that!You could set difficulties,like set the number of zombie bots you'd have to kill to reach a successful win.Naturally,you could still escape the map to win also,but staying and killing more zombies would be a good way to earn more exp.

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Zombies... Really...?

There's enough zombie games already, I don't really care to have them added to F13. I'm not going to pretend I read the whole thing, and I'm sure your ideas are great. I just can't support adding zombies.

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3 hours ago, Truth said:

Zombies... Really...?

There's enough zombie games already, I don't really care to have them added to F13. I'm not going to pretend I read the whole thing, and I'm sure your ideas are great. I just can't support adding zombies.

Thanks for at least taking the time to respond. It's a shame you didn't read it, I didn't post it to force anyone to read a huge block of text, just to have a conversation. I'm going to respond to what you did write, maybe you'll be inspired to read it later.

"Zombies Really", yep really there's no reason not to expand the game. In fact if the game doesn't expand it will slowly lose players.

"There's enough zombie games already", because of a copyright error it's all in the public domain, so no license required.

"I don't really care to have them added to f13", no worriers no one listens to me anyway, joking aside though, they probably won't, even if players showed real interest, the Devs have a lot on their plate right now. Some ideas might get borrowed though and that would be good.

While your support would mean something to me and possibly give me someone to bounce ideas around with, it's yours to give, not mine to demand. I hope I covered it all without sounding like an ass, see you in the other threads @Truth, and thanks again for the feedback. 

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34 minutes ago, Slasher_Clone said:

Thanks for at least taking the time to respond. It's a shame you didn't read it, I didn't post it to force anyone to read a huge block of text, just to have a conversation. I'm going to respond to what you did write, maybe you'll be inspired to read it later.

I'm sure I'll read it eventually, I'm just not very awake today and probably would just get myself confused. Plus I'm supposed to be working lol

34 minutes ago, Slasher_Clone said:

"Zombies Really", yep really there's no reason not to expand the game. In fact if the game doesn't expand it will slowly lose players.

Completely agree, I just don't think zombies are the way to go. I'd much rather have swarms of counselors to deal with (how many can you kill in 20 minutes).

34 minutes ago, Slasher_Clone said:

no worriers no one listens to me anyway

That's just false! I've definitely taken notice how active you've been lately and appreciate that we've been able to discuss various topics.

It's not that this is a bad idea, it's just not something I'd really go for. I'd be happy if they added it, and I'd definitely play it (even though I haven't actually read the suggestion), but it's not really on my list of things they should add to the game. There's plenty of other modes they can add before they resort to zombies.

Edit: @Slasher_Clone I read it. This was very well though out and presented. I really like the concept of the zombies "remembering their past life" and moving objective parts. It provides a certain balance you couldn't achieve otherwise. It kind of forces the player zombies to keep track of the bots so they're not working against you.

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32 minutes ago, Truth said:

Edit: @Slasher_Clone I read it. This was very well though out and presented. I really like the concept of the zombies "remembering their past life" and moving objective parts. It provides a certain balance you couldn't achieve otherwise. It kind of forces the player zombies to keep track of the bots so they're not working against you.

Yeah, I spent quite a bit of time thinking about how to balance giving the Zombie Player powers. It would suck if you couldn't move around the map or how to balance the cars(bot murder machines). Each idea builds on the last, here I'll tell you my zombie meta for this mode.

The zombie player needs to infect counselor players, while at the same time guarding the car(s), so at the start you either spawn kill a counselor too get a team mate or rush to Shepherd a group to each car, the phone is a problem but one car can kill all your bots in mins. Then it's just a game of hunt the poor zombie player, as he shuffles around weak and defenceless or hides in the water as you all escape. If the zombie player can cut off the cars, then they can trap the surviving counselors in a house. The faster the zombie player converts the counselors the more likely they are to win. 

As counselors, escaping or killing the zombie player. PK's and shotguns brought to a central defended spot. Then you identify the zombie player and execute them, wiping up the bot zombies or more likely winning if you kill the main zombie player and any counselors that have become zombie players.

Having the zombie bots be both a hindering factor to the counselors and a secret advantage, as you can see where parts are even when carried and sometimes they get brought right to you. The zombie bots being attracted to sound and light means you could lead them away with radios or flashlights. Forcing the zombie player to waste his powers rounding them up.

I think there are plenty of places it could be improved or things that need to be worked out. So I posted figuring there was enough to get the ball rolling. I don't think it will necessarily become part of the game, it is just a post on a forum after all, but it gives another angle for viewing the world the Devs have built. Thanks for reading it, hope I can change your mind about adding your support.

 

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i liked the idea of zombies because of the old NES Friday The 13th game,which i have.I honestly wouldn't mind seeing a mode,where there's a Jason bot to kill,there's counselor bots who start out trying to help the player,but when they die they come back as zombies.Not sure if i would add the wolves or bats from the NES game,but going into Jason's shack to find out you had to battle Pamela's head before getting the sweater would be amazing....lol

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3 hours ago, JF13 said:

i liked the idea of zombies because of the old NES Friday The 13th game,which i have.I honestly wouldn't mind seeing a mode,where there's a Jason bot to kill,there's counselor bots who start out trying to help the player,but when they die they come back as zombies.Not sure if i would add the wolves or bats from the NES game,but going into Jason's shack to find out you had to battle Pamela's head before getting the sweater would be amazing....lol

It would be cool with me if zombies appear on that NES map. I'd skip the wolves and bats as actual antagonists, bats could be used for a jump scare, if those are intergrated, and wolves could just howl in the distance adding to the spookiness. Pamela's head would need to have at least an Easter egg attached to it, if not you could suffer a hallucination rather than the dead body scare that is there now. Mostly I was thinking this would be best in private matches, or offline play with a friend. The zombies don't have to be smart if there are a lot of them, spawning out of the water or camp entrances every few minutes. Or if you set the spawn to minimum, a sandbox exploration mode, where you can just wander around exploring the maps with some minor distractions by bots. Thanks for the feedback, @JF13, as a fellow disabled person, I understand how gaming can give you a much needed outlet and being dependent on others in multiplayer can just not be worth the effort. Maybe one day we can go kill the zombies at Camp Crystal Lake together, that would be fun.

 

Edit

Combat Stance for counselors upgrade, unarmed combat. By entering Combat Stance without a weapon a counselor would still be able to fight. This wouldn't work on Jason, he's to stronge. By pressing your attack button in Combat Stance your counselor would throw a punch or kick, by holding it they would either push the character in front of them, shoving them away and making them stumble a few feet or throw a kick resulting in the same effect. Anyone else have an idea for unarmed Combat, feel free to post it below.

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9 hours ago, bewareofbears said:

I have no interest in seeing zombies added, ever.

Thanks for the input, is there any part of the thread you think is worth adding to? Unarmed Combat for example. I appreciate your taking the time to read it and post regardless of your brevity. Your opinion seems to carry quite the weight on the forum or at least generate a multitude of responses when your engaged in a topic. If you are going to respond, did you see any obvious balance issues I missed?

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3 hours ago, Slasher_Clone said:

Thanks for the input, is there any part of the thread you think is worth adding to? Unarmed Combat for example. I appreciate your taking the time to read it and post regardless of your brevity. Your opinion seems to carry quite the weight on the forum or at least generate a multitude of responses when your engaged in a topic. If you are going to respond, did you see any obvious balance issues I missed?

I'm not going to comment on anything balance related as that would suggest I'm entertaining the idea. I'm against the concept as a whole.

The greatest failure of the Nintendo Friday the 13th game was it's inability to be faithful to the source material. Adding an unnecessary zombie mode takes away necessary resources from Gun and Illphonic's ability to present a faithful representation of Friday the 13th.

If Gun or Illphonic were interested in making a zombie game based on Night of the Living Dead, I would suggest doing so as it's own individual title. Gun has a connection to Tom Savini who directed the first remake of Night and was involved in most of Romero's Dead films. That said, Illphonic recently released, or re-released, a zombie game that you can now find in the bargain bin of your local Wal-Mart. The zombie genre is over-saturated and there's nothing that I feel could be brought to the table that hasn't been done before, and better.

If you want a character driven zombie experience, play Telltale's The Walking Dead. If you want to kill hordes of zombies, play one of the Left for Dead games. If you want a random zombie experience, play one of many games like Plants vs. Zombies, etc. If you want to play Friday the 13th: The Game- play Friday the 13th: The Game.

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Cool thanks for the imput regardless, I had forgotten Tom Savini's connection to Night. I knew you had something to contribute @bewareofbears, even if you don't like or support the idea and I appreciate you taking the time. I do want to play Friday, but I also would like it to last as long as possible. Things are going to be added, I'd rather them be things that open the world up in new ways and projects that fit the existing world. This was my idea for how to make a counselor single player mode, an open sandbox to explore, the Devs are right an A.I. Jason would be very hard to make scary(or at all), but a game with zero antagonists is boring. The problem is that players would want to play the zombies, that's what makes this game different from other zombie games. The part that would be new is the 7 v 1 that slowly shifts as the zombies take out the counselors. It wouldn't eclipse Jason just bring more players, and another prebuilt fan base. You've actually give a great reason as to why it could be done, if Savini likes the idea, that is.

Edit

Savini Zombie Counselor skins, man that would rock. It would definitely be worth the cost of a DLC, if we got more awesome skins from Savini.

Sort of related, when a game is being made, people work on different parts. So for instance there are people who do the skins, the graphic designers. When they run out of work, they get assigned new stuff to work on, for anyone who doesn't want them spending their time on more costumes. This would be preferable to that, at least in my mind. If Gun is having a meeting and someone says, hey boss should I work on Zombie skins or Mascot costumes for each of the counselors, I know what I want the boss to say.

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One of the things I failed to mention above, was more a personal observation so I skipped it, is how weird it is that there's only Jason as an antagonist. If you told me as a kid, my favorite game would be seven on one and the one is the only bad guy, I'd have laughed at you. I'm not criticizing it, it really works well in multiplayer or offline bots. The bots and single player challenges will serve the Jason side of the community but at the same time there is no counselor equivalent. Which is why I think this property could work. In QP matches it isn't necessary to add any more antagonists, Jason is the star of that show, and he should remain that way. This doesn't mean we can't have Roy, Pamela or special guest killers, Jason will be improved by other mechanics being introduced for them. We have Roy now, and I'm hoping we get Pamela in the future, they don't take the QP matches away from Jason if balanced well, they just add flavour(and longevity) to the game. By expanding into smaller properties and not trying to over reach like a certain other game, F13 can grow. The new engine brings with it hope that rules and mechanics can change and be refined. Pamela may not have been possible before but now is, maybe some suggestions from the forums will even make it in.

I think with the number of arguments elsewhere on the forums, people would be thrilled with this, you get to set it at three different difficulties for the spawn alone, and as for practicing combat, well that's the part I look forward too. A threat of a different nature than Jason, one you can kill or avoid regardless of if your character is fast or slow. The counselor players can take out their worst impulses on the bot zombies, without pissing all over the Zombie Players or Jason's game. At the same time the Zombie Player gets to try to use tactics and stealth to kill physically superior counselor players.

I think that some times when people read ideas like this they think it will become a new focus or derail the train. But a DLC that doesn't effect the people who don't want it. That gives the Devs a place to explore other mechanics, release some skins, and give counselor players a game that isn't dependant on a single antagonist, this idea works for those goals. If you have an idea how this can be done a different way, there's lots of room to add it below, please do, I'd love to read it. I get that it would take some members of the team to do it, but I just think the benefits would be worth those people learning something new, or having a project that can be worked on rather than, giving employees work that is just filling time. I'm not expecting this idea to get made, but I do think if we(the forum members) have an idea of merit it will at least be discussed and considered. I wouldn't even expect to know, for at least a year if any idea was to be developed or released. I would honestly expect Gun to work on it in private, and if it was fun, it to be released when the game needs it to be released. There are to many reason why it could be needed to list, but the one I think makes the most sense is to reward the counselor players. A good number of you have already come by to look, leave a comment, join the conversation. Thank you for being polite and moving on if that was your reason not to post before, I appreciate the respect you have shown.

Edit - I think the first post wasn't clear enough. This thread was suppose to be to discuss how to do a Offline/Private Counselor Mode. Using an existing public domain property was how I thought we should do it not the only way it could be done. If you want to respond to the title of the thread rather than my ramblings about zombies, please do that instead. I really do think the counselors could be explored in different ways than what we have now and it could  act as a vent for some of the frustrations that exist.

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57 minutes ago, Slasher_Clone said:

 @Alkavian, would you care to weigh in on this? I would appreciate feedback, and would like yours in particular. Thanks man.

Your concept is well thought out and you obviously put a lot of effort into making it something more than a rambling concept. Kudos for getting into detail on how it could work so people can visualize what you are trying to convey.

My personal opinion is that it could work, but would be a bit outside the scope of what the current game is trying to accomplish. I would like to see new modes involving Jason or even Pamela before seeing zombies. 

If Gun/Illfonic added a zombie return to NES Crystal Lake mode I'd give it a go. It's just not in the scope of what I'm personally hoping for in the near-term.

Don't be discouraged. Your idea, while not to many purists fancy, is one of the better justified and presented ideas for a game mode that I've seen in a long time.

I have to get back to work now. Take it easy.

*Alk

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3 hours ago, Alkavian said:

Your idea, while not to many purists fancy, is one of the better justified and presented ideas for a game mode that I've seen in a long time.

Adding to that, it's always appreciated. There's nothing more annoying than posts like:

http://forum.f13game.com/topic/17239-counselor-exp-bonus-for-being-in-character/

Even though I may hesitate to read a full page suggestion, I'm happy to see someone put forth that much thought/effort. If nothing more, it shows that you really care about what you're suggesting. Keep it up @Slasher_Clone.

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@ThePunkPirate, so what would you think of a fifty year anniversary of Night of the Living Dead mode, being released in October, the originals premiere was on the first in 1968?

Figure you might have missed this, or if you have an idea for a Counselor mode you might throw it in here?

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Please stop fishing for people to bump your thread. I was originally not going to even bother responding on principle, but I feel that you probably wouldnt take the hint and still tag other users. The few that have responded here have been courteous, but based on your triple post its obvious you just want attention or people to agree with you. 

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Wow, I couldn't care less if you agree with me. As for what I want, I want a better game, that's it.

 

 

Also, @ThePunkPirate, I'll continue to tag people if I think they could add anything. I'll be as respectful to you as you were to me. I'm still new and figuring out the forum, what's your excuse?

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