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Sogreth

Sense spamming needs to change.

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I like early sense. Makes its a lot easier to shift grab when its on. On consoles you are sitting further away so its easy to lose sight of them.

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5 minutes ago, Redcat345 said:

Leave sense alone, it's fine as is. We don't need counselors to have more advantages, especially after the October patch, which screwed the game up.

Jason should be able to spam sense, you are trespassing in his camp and he has every right to defend his home.

To be fair, counselors should have all their stats be meaningful as well. Jason should have the OP advantage, but no ability or stat for either should be undermined. Mechanics should work as advertised. As it is now, counselor stats are not "equal" in relative value. They should be. Only then will counselor gameplay be balanced. 

On the other side of the coin, this is a flaw for Jason as well. His abilities are not equivalent in value. This is why you get meta Jasons (like Part 8) and non-meta Jasons like Part 7. It would also help if all Jason's abilities worked as advertised. 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Alkavian said:

To be fair, counselors should have all their stats be meaningful as well. Jason should have the OP advantage, but no ability or stat for either should be undermined. Mechanics should work as advertised. As it is now, counselor stats are not "equal" in relative value. They should be. Only then will counselor gameplay be balanced. 

On the other side of the coin, this is a flaw for Jason as well. His abilities are not equivalent in value. This is why you get meta Jasons (like Part 8) and non-meta Jasons like Part 7. It would also help if all Jason's abilities worked as advertised. 

 

 

I never played a game that's perfectly balanced. Neither have you. There is always a meta to every game.

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45 minutes ago, Loading said:

I never played a game that's perfectly balanced. Neither have you. There is always a meta to every game.

Pong would like a word with you.

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6 minutes ago, Bropollocreed79 said:

Pong would like a word with you.

You got him there. @Loading rebuttal?

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14 minutes ago, Bropollocreed79 said:

Pong would like a word with you.

Lol. Chess and Checkers also come to mind. 

Most modern games will not be perfect in terms of balance, but does not mean the effort should not be put forward to fix imbalances.

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11 minutes ago, Truth said:

You got him there. @Loading rebuttal?

No rebuttal needed.  I was being an asshole because that's what I do.

5 minutes ago, Alkavian said:

Lol. Chess and Checkers also come to mind. 

Most modern games will not be perfect in terms of balance, but does not mean the effort should not be put forward to fix imbalances.

Sometimes I can't help myself.  But in terms of modern adversarial gaming, there's always a meta.  It's no different with optimal builds in RPGs, using the best team in a sports game, or anything else that's a multiplayer experience.

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The whole point of multiplayer games is that they have a shifting balance of power, it doesn't remain the same and tests your ability to adapt. When the counselors call the cops or drive around the map distracting Jason it changes the balance of power and it's just part of the game. If Jason traps the phone box or car to prevent this it changes the balance in Jason's favour. Every time the Devs change anything the balance shifts. Currently it is reasonably close to centre, the Devs want team work and the current balance encourages it. The further tweaking of balance can only make the game better in the long run, but I think it will be accomplished by adding new factors, new things, rather than any outright changes to item spawns or nerfing Jason.

The sense/stalk thing does seem to be one of the things that Jason players feel needs rebalancing, myself included. Maybe you should be able to select the order of Jason's powers. Then the number of different factors a Jason could choose would leave counselors guessing what Jason is capable of. This would lead to way more balance debates and new metas. I would be curious to try it in private matches to see how it works. We need test servers, to try new things on, I sign up in a minute to be murdered repeatedly in the name of science(making the game better).

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2 hours ago, Redcat345 said:

Leave sense alone, it's fine as is. We don't need counselors to have more advantages, especially after the October patch, which screwed the game up.

Jason should be able to spam sense, you are trespassing in his camp and he has every right to defend his home.

Damn right. Down with the councelors

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I thought the poster meant harder for Jason to be sneaky.

See, I like that sense makes it harder to be sneaky as a counsellor. Before counsellors understood sense spam would find them, half of the players in a lobby would go sit in a bush all game. Sense forces players to use actual hiding spota or try to escale, both good things in my opinion. Counsellors can still be sneaky, too, its just harder. (As Jenny I often move from one hiding spot to another as I travel, take a trap at an objective and then hop in a hiding spot before Jason can morph and sense). 

If stalk is switched with sense, it will be almost impossible for Jason to find counsellors who sit still or camp hiding spots. In my opinion, counsellors should be encouraged to try and escape, not crouch in a bush for ten minutes. Stalk could be passive from the start, or partnered with sense or shift, but sense needs to be available for Jason to keep counsellors honest. I get that having stalk early will be good for Jason, but we need to look at what nerfing sense will do to counsellor gameplay, because it will be impossible for Jason to find idle counsellors unless he gets very lucky.

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I think Jason should start with all of his powers (minus rage) and with that he shouldn't be able to spam sense. Either way, stalk needs to come into play right away. Nothing like giving away the location of the phone house right away. Puts the J-man at a disadvantage. Not a critical disadvantage, but a disadvantage nonetheless.

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6 minutes ago, malloymk said:

I think Jason should start with all of his powers (minus rage) and with that he shouldn't be able to spam sense. Either way, stalk needs to come into play right away. Nothing like giving away the location of the phone house right away. Puts the J-man at a disadvantage. Not a critical disadvantage, but a disadvantage nonetheless.

I wouldn't say ALL of his powers. If he got stalk immediately, then they'd probably have to keep Shift/the 3rd power where it is rather than bumping it up to where Sense/the second power would be. Now, sometimes there's a bug where the phone fuse still spawn in the phone house, but barring that, since the fuse should no longer spawn in the phone house, you do have a bit of a grace period at the start of the match.

If Stalk and Sense were swapped, you could morph to a power box or a car, break/trap that, then turn on Stalk, then morph to the phone house and silently trap it so as to not alert its location.

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20 hours ago, CPLhicks31 said:

   At high fear, counsellors are more likely to light up like christmas trees. If a counsellor leaves Jasons sense radius (roughly his music), then Jason will have to "re-sense" them I believe.  I am not privy to the exact details, but a reliable poster named Alkavan has tested sense numerous times. Using hiding spots, and keeping fear low all make it less likely you will be "re-sensed" if you have left Jasons sense zone. Hiding spots in cabins are great because not only do they reduce your fear, but they make it less likely your cabin will be "re-sensed" if you managed to leave Jasons sense radius. If you are still in Jasons sense radius, and you are in a cabin but are not in a hiding spot, your cabin is virtually guaranteed to glow red.

   However, a fear resistant perk will not itself make you less likely to be sensed. It will keep your fear down, which will indirectly help, but when Jason uses sense, the perks that directly affect your odds of lighting up are sense avoidance perks like level headed, low profile, and home body, NOT fear avoidance perks. Fear avoidance and sense avoidance go hand in hand, but they are not the same thing. 

   Ideally, you would manage your fear so that you are still very composed, and you would have sense avoidance perks. If Jason finds you, then you would leave his sense radius, enter a hiding spot, and restart the cat and mouse game. That is your step by step best way to avoid sense, but it requires luck too, and for Jason to make an error or two in his ability management.

Again, Alkavan has the exact details, but my summary should be roughly accurate, and I main Jenny with an emphasis on fear management, although I don't often use fear avoidance or sense avoidance perks.

Managing your fear utilizing hiding spots puts you in a very vulnerable state. Fear has nothing to do with cabins lighting up red (as far as I know). I believe cabins will always light up red if you're inside of it (minus avoidance perks). A fair trade off I'd say if his sense were to change.

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I think Sense is fine the way it is.  The epic sense perks along with epic lightfoot work well on Tiffany & AJ- even post rage.  Well, that's from my experience playing on both sides of the blade anyway.  

If circumventing the full cooldown for sense was never intended, I think it would have been corrected by now.  The game is almost a year old.  Why are we trying to nerf Jason again? Have we not learned our lesson from 2 patches ago?  Let him be.  

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1 hour ago, Jubileet said:

Managing your fear utilizing hiding spots puts you in a very vulnerable state. Fear has nothing to do with cabins lighting up red (as far as I know). I believe cabins will always light up red if you're inside of it (minus avoidance perks). A fair trade off I'd say if his sense were to change.

If you are in a hiding spot, your cabin may not light up. This isn't because of fear, however. Using hiding spots to manage fear isn't dangerous at all if the doors are barricaded. Being in a spot for fifteen seconds is enough to reduce fear somewhat (and fill your stamina back up while you're at it). If you are heading to an already looted cabin, hopping in a hiding spot is a great way to spend the time you have before Jasons shows up. Jason cannot kill you in the hiding spot until he comes inside, so you are just as safe as waiting inside the cabin anyway.

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2 hours ago, CPLhicks31 said:

If you are in a hiding spot, your cabin may not light up. This isn't because of fear, however. Using hiding spots to manage fear isn't dangerous at all if the doors are barricaded. Being in a spot for fifteen seconds is enough to reduce fear somewhat (and fill your stamina back up while you're at it). If you are heading to an already looted cabin, hopping in a hiding spot is a great way to spend the time you have before Jasons shows up. Jason cannot kill you in the hiding spot until he comes inside, so you are just as safe as waiting inside the cabin anyway.

Interesting. Just tested this. The house appear to never light up if you are in a hiding spot with the only exception being if Jason has rage the house will ALWAYS light up. Tested this 20 Sense Spams on AJ and then 20 Sense spams on Vanessa. We can assume that Stealth does not effect Hiding and being detected by Sense. It appears to be an outright check on Rage to determine whether or not the house lights up if you're hiding. 

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39 minutes ago, Jubileet said:

Interesting. Just tested this. The house appear to never light up if you are in a hiding spot with the only exception being if Jason has rage the house will ALWAYS light up. Tested this 20 Sense Spams on AJ and then 20 Sense spams on Vanessa. We can assume that Stealth does not effect Hiding and being detected by Sense. It appears to be an outright check on Rage to determine whether or not the house lights up if you're hiding. 

Yup. These are things I was sure of already from my own and Alkavian's tests. But I am glad you could check for yourself and your test pretty much confirms things. 

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5 hours ago, Ker Juice said:

I think Sense is fine the way it is.  The epic sense perks along with epic lightfoot work well on Tiffany & AJ- even post rage.  Well, that's from my experience playing on both sides of the blade anyway.  

If circumventing the full cooldown for sense was never intended, I think it would have been corrected by now.  The game is almost a year old.  Why are we trying to nerf Jason again? Have we not learned our lesson from 2 patches ago?  Let him be.  

THIS!!!!

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sense should be permanent on Jason wtf are you talking about, counselors shouldnt be able to run from him and hide, just look at the movies, all counselors are made to die in every game

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On 2/13/2018 at 1:26 PM, ZillaMeister said:

There is no reason to change sense. If anything, allow the ability for Jason to change his power loadout to add a larger variety of playstyles for Jason.

I don't think Stalk is nearly as important as Sense. Jason should be able to know where players are at, and whether they are entering or exiting cabins at a given time. You may see a sound ping, but you may not know if that's coming from within the house or outside of it.

He already knows locations. That's what noise pings are for, and he will still have Sense, and it will still work the same way. But there is NO reason that can should be able to bypass the cooldown of the ability just because.

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On 2/13/2018 at 5:23 PM, CPLhicks31 said:

   At high fear, counsellors are more likely to light up like christmas trees. If a counsellor leaves Jasons sense radius (roughly his music), then Jason will have to "re-sense" them I believe.  I am not privy to the exact details, but a reliable poster named Alkavan has tested sense numerous times. Using hiding spots, and keeping fear low all make it less likely you will be "re-sensed" if you have left Jasons sense zone. Hiding spots in cabins are great because not only do they reduce your fear, but they make it less likely your cabin will be "re-sensed" if you managed to leave Jasons sense radius. If you are still in Jasons sense radius, and you are in a cabin but are not in a hiding spot, your cabin is virtually guaranteed to glow red.

Yeah, good luck with that. If Jason has Sensed you, and wants to chase you, you're not leaving his music radius. He can spam Sense every couple seconds. He knows when you turn left, he knows when you turn right, he knows when you jump into that house.

And if he is close enough, he can easily hear when a Counselor goes into a hiding spot.

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There's also the problem that hackers use ESP hacks to see everyone anywhere on the map, so there's nothing you can do about that. The anti-cheat software is too weak to prevent it, and there's no way a counselor player can know with 100% certainty if someone is using a cheat or if they merely sensed them legitimately.

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4 hours ago, Sogreth said:

Yeah, good luck with that. If Jason has Sensed you, and wants to chase you, you're not leaving his music radius. He can spam Sense every couple seconds. He knows when you turn left, he knows when you turn right, he knows when you jump into that house.

And if he is close enough, he can easily hear when a Counselor goes into a hiding spot.

Ive lost jason plenty of times this way. Its hard to do, and late game it is even harder, but it can be done rather well with practice, timing, and a little luck. Especially if Jason can be baited into burning his shift before hand. He wont always hear you in hiding spots if you ran from him when he did not have shift to keep up, and beds are silent.

Sometimes "losing" Jason only buys you a minute, other times five minutes. Every match is different. A good Jason will be hard to lose, or will find you again quickly, as he should.

EDIT:  Also, er noise pings come off of moving counsellors. Counsellors who are crouched on a bush on the edge of the map do not make noise pings. That's why we can't tarnish sense. When the game first came out people didnt understand how sense worked so tons of players spent entire matches crouched in bushes or hiding in the lake at the edge of the map, only to die once Jason gained rage, or sometimes luck it out. It was awful gameplay and if sense is nerfed things will return to that. Jason can't see noise pings if the counsellors aren't making any, and if counsellors stay still, they don't make any. So the new meta will be to just waste time doing nothing. Teamwork and objective play need to be encouraged as much as possible. If people know Jason will find them then then try to escape, which is good for gameplay.

 

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5 hours ago, CPLhicks31 said:

.

EDIT:  Also, er noise pings come off of moving counsellors. Counsellors who are crouched on a bush on the edge of the map do not make noise pings. That's why we can't tarnish sense.

 

Umm. Yes we can. About halfway through the match Jason will get Rage (even sooner than that if he got hit at all), and they will EASILY light up.

I've had bot games where I can't find Tommy, and I would just wait for Rage to pop up, and look at that. A Tommy lights up like the 4th of July. He would be stuck on a rock at the edge of a map. Not making pings, but Sense would still pick him up from across the map.

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