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Sogreth

Sense spamming needs to change.

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Sense spamming is broken and cheesy. It's even more cheesy than Jason being able to arm block a bear trap. It needs to be changed, and here's why.

1) Sense Avoidance Perks. Sense spamming makes Sense avoidance perks near useless. Best case scenario, you have 65% Sense Avoidance with three perks, AND you must stay indoors to get that 65%, it drops to 45% while you are outside. That means a Counselor is using ALL THREE perk slots to slightly counter ONE of Jason's abilities. Three perks slots that just gives Jason a 1 in 3 chance to find you with Sense anyways.

2) Stealth. Sense spamming makes Stealth a very weak stat. It may even be THE WORST stat in the game. Some players still like, and use it. But it doesn't really change the fact that it's not a good stat. Jason players aren't looking for noise pings, they rely on Wallhack- I mean, Sense spamming to find Counselors. And if Sense isn't picking up any nearby Counselors, then Jason just moves closer to an objective and he is bound to find someone.

3) Not intended. I believe that Sense spamming was NOT intended for the game. Not only is it unhealthy, but just by looking at some of Jason's perks, you can clearly see that Sense wasn't meant to be spammed. +/- Sense Jasons are what I'm referring to. Having Sense as a Strength OR Weakness ONLY affects the Duration and the Cooldown. Spamming Sense bypasses both of these effects. Why need a longer Duration, when you only keep the ability on for 2-3 seconds? Why need a shorter Cooldown when you can retain a LARGE portion of the cooldown by cancelling it early?

Solution. It's actually very simple, really. Change Sense so it CANNOT be spammed. Make Sense act like all of Jason's other abilities. You have to wait for the full Cooldown, even if you cancel it early. You don't see Jason being able to Shift more often because he stopped it early, and you don't see him using Stalk more by cancelling it early. So why should Sense be any different?

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Strength will always be the worst stat in the game, but stealth isn't that great either.

I agree with your points however. It should be changed or perhaps make a Jason with a weakness in sense not be able to spam it?

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4 minutes ago, TiffanyxAJ said:

Strength will always be the worst stat in the game, but stealth isn't that great either.

I agree with your points however. It should be changed or perhaps make a Jason with a weakness in sense not be able to spam it?

Strength is another bad one, but it does more than what people think.

It helps you with using less stamina for attacks. And less stamina for dodging. Also helps to break out of grabs faster (kind of crap to begin with) and breaking out of traps (a Buggzy with Thick Skin and Medic is a Part 2's nightmare).

Also gives you a longer stun duration on melee weapons too.

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Do you want a way to stop this?

Swap the time you gain the Sense ability with Stalk.

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6 minutes ago, Sogreth said:

Strength is another bad one, but it does more than what people think.

It helps you with using less stamina for attacks. And less stamina for dodging. Also helps to break out of grabs faster (kind of crap to begin with) and breaking out of traps (a Buggzy with Thick Skin and Medic is a Part 2's nightmare).

Also gives you a longer stun duration on melee weapons too.

Composure affects how fast you break out of grabs. Not strength

Luck affects the stamina drain on attacks. Not strength.

Strength has nothing to do with stun chance or duration. That is completely dependent on the weapon at hand and perks.

And while I'm not sure about traps, I do know that luck affects how much damage you take from them.

As far as I know, the only thing that strength is useful for is removing Jason's mask.

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3 minutes ago, TiffanyxAJ said:

Composure affects how fast you break out of grabs. Not strength

Luck affects the stamina drain on attacks. Not strength.

Strength has nothing to do with stun chance. That is completely dependent on the weapon at hand.

And while I'm not sure about traps, I do know that luck affects how much damage you take from them.

As far as I know, the only thing that strength is useful for is removing Jason's mask.

Both Composure and Strength helps with grabs. Which is why Adam is the best at breaking grabs (7 Com, 8 Str).

Both Luck and Strength affect combat actions. Blocking used to use Stamina too, but not anymore, and strength helped with that too.

And I said stun duration, not chance =/

And Luck doesnt affect trap damage anymore. It used to. Back when a Chad could take like 5 traps XD

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Stealth isn't useless

When no one is showing up on sense, and all the objectives are checked, Jason will follow the biggest ping. 

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On 2/11/2018 at 6:09 PM, Sogreth said:

Solution. It's actually very simple, really. Change Sense so it CANNOT be spammed. Make Sense act like all of Jason's other abilities. You have to wait for the full Cooldown, even if you cancel it early. You don't see Jason being able to Shift more often because he stopped it early, and you don't see him using Stalk more by cancelling it early. So why should Sense be any different?

This actually makes a ton of sense.

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   I use the sound pings to find people all the time. Larger the ping the closer they are. I will never forget the Jenny I caught on the island in Higgins going for the sweater screaming "hacker!" But seriously, I was on the south shore, a lot of sound pings to the north, one to the south...... the shack was south, on the island and everyone was talking about killing Jason in the lobby. Nine out of ten sciencticians agree, its not rocket surgery.

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16 hours ago, CPLhicks31 said:

sense is just fine the way it is. is it perfect, no. Is it good, yes. 

Meh..  I really.. really disagree.  

If there's one thing that should be nerfed and changed about Jason its his Sense Ability.    Im not a BIG fan of Dead By Daylight.  But if theres one thing that game does right is the HIDE and SEEK play style.    In F13th you can't really hide at all without pinging on the Sense ability if your counselor had a Jason encounter.

Few ideas..

1.) It should be the LAST ability earned.    Swap sense with Stalk.   Including cool down time

2.)  Decrease how easily counselors show up on sense.  Counselor should be really terrified before showing on a Sense ping.  (Unless Rage is active)

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On 2/11/2018 at 6:09 PM, Sogreth said:

Solution. It's actually very simple, really. Change Sense so it CANNOT be spammed. Make Sense act like all of Jason's other abilities. You have to wait for the full Cooldown, even if you cancel it early. You don't see Jason being able to Shift more often because he stopped it early, and you don't see him using Stalk more by cancelling it early. So why should Sense be any different?

Nope.

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I do think Sense should be changed to have a cooldown when used like the other abilities with no toggle to bypass it.

I just worry about the long term ramifications.

Other things would need to be changed for healthier Jason gameplay.

1. Jason knows where the Jarvis radio is to start the match/including the generator tied to its power

2. Stalk comes first, then Shift...or allow Jason to choose his power loadout

3. Negative Shift Jasons only suffer a longer cooldown like Part 6 with minus Morph, NOT a speed reduction

4. Grip Strength carries a damage modifier, now Part 3 and Part 7 have more incentive to grab as it does damage to the counselors, but it can't kill them

5. Rage has more buffs, giving less incentive to fuck around with Jason whether its to troll him, kill him, kite him basically all late game changes near the end of the time limit nonsense

 

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I’m confused by this. Sense does have to wait for the full cool down as is right now. Even if you cancel it early. What am I missing here?

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16 hours ago, Armani? said:

Stealth isn't useless

When no one is showing up on sense, and all the objectives are checked, Jason will follow the biggest ping. 

If anything Stealth is underrated.  There's a reason I'm usually one of the last counselors in a match when I play as Lachappa, and it isn't because I can kite Jason with stamina management and window looping.

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2 minutes ago, Charlie Chainsaw said:

I’m confused by this. Sense does have to wait for the full cool down as is right now. Even if you cancel it early. What am I missing here?

On console (well, at least PS4) it does not.  If you activate Sense, you can leave it on for one second, and then deactivate it.  The cooldown is only as long as it takes the icon to refill from the point you drained it to.  Essentially, you could have one long Sense period followed by a long cooldown, or you can have it up when needed if you switch it off when you don't need it, reducing the cooldown accordingly.

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11 minutes ago, Charlie Chainsaw said:

I’m confused by this. Sense does have to wait for the full cool down as is right now. Even if you cancel it early. What am I missing here?

What @Bropollocreed79 said. Same with xbox, not sure about pc though.

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The argument is that smart Jason players just use it when they need it, rather then letting it drain. Sense management is for Jason what stamina management is for counselors. It makes the game of cat and mouse harder but also better. I use stealth with Jenny to move around the map knowing when to hide and when not to, watching Jason and knowing his powers is the key to using stealth effectively. 

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1 minute ago, Slasher_Clone said:

The argument is that smart Jason players just use it when they need it, rather then letting it drain. Sense management is for Jason what stamina management is for counselors. It makes the game of cat and mouse harder but also better. I use stealth with Jenny to move around the map knowing when to hide and when not to, watching Jason and knowing his powers is the key to using stealth effectively. 

   I agree, sense does not need to change.
   Try running anti-fear perks on a high composure counselor and managing your fear level by staying in groups, using flashlights ect... you will find that Jason cannot see you with sense until your fear skyrockets. I have found this to work better than sense avoidance perks.
    Two weeks ago I was chasing someone playing Fox. Right behind them for four minutes (not exaggerating and it did seem excessively long) before catching and finally killing her. Fox was completely invisible to sense the entire time, but other nearby counselors lit up like a Christmas tree. Had a few other similar experiences chasing sense invisible Jennys, some of them even managed to lose me entirely, at least for a while until I killed the power and their fear went up.
    Nerfing sense would make the anti-fear perks way too powerful.

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42 minutes ago, Ahab said:

   

   I agree, sense does not need to change.
   Try running anti-fear perks on a high composure counselor and managing your fear level by staying in groups, using flashlights ect... you will find that Jason cannot see you with sense until your fear skyrockets. I have found this to work better than sense avoidance perks.
    Two weeks ago I was chasing someone playing Fox. Right behind them for four minutes (not exaggerating and it did seem excessively long) before catching and finally killing her. Fox was completely invisible to sense the entire time, but other nearby counselors lit up like a Christmas tree. Had a few other similar experiences chasing sense invisible Jennys, some of them even managed to lose me entirely, at least for a while until I killed the power and their fear went up.
    Nerfing sense would make the anti-fear perks way too powerful.

Those were sense avoidance perks. Only these makes you invisible to Sense

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1 hour ago, Slasher_Clone said:

The argument is that smart Jason players just use it when they need it, rather then letting it drain. Sense management is for Jason what stamina management is for counselors. It makes the game of cat and mouse harder but also better. I use stealth with Jenny to move around the map knowing when to hide and when not to, watching Jason and knowing his powers is the key to using stealth effectively. 

No, that's not an entirely accurate comparison. Counselor stamina isn't toggled on/off for example. If Jason knows someone must be in a certain area all he has to do is stand in one spot and toggle sense on/off every 7-10 seconds until he finds them because sense avoidance perks can be overcome by spamming sense over and over.

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