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stoney

The Great Debate (patch 1.30.18)

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7 minutes ago, stoney said:

Sorry, but I don't see how it would require re-balancing Jason at the same time? Can you explain your thought process a little more?

Jason is currently balanced against counselors based on the idea that while 1v1 Jason will destroy the counselor (if not quickly, at least inevitably), working together will enable a better defense (2v1 largely negates grabs, for example). Jason cannot be in two places at once and has skill cooldowns, however, and present game balance assumes that while Jason is engaging one set of counselors, others are completing objectives. 

If you're proposing rebalancing counselors to not need teamwork/communication to face down Jason, then maintaining balance will require Jason being far better at dealing with the counselors in front of him because according to you the game should not factor in whether there's communication/teamwork occurring away from Jason.

Basically, your suggestion's core concept goes against the inherent balance of an asymmetric game. Try something else, by all means, but you can't balance this game without assuming solid counselor teamwork and communication.

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Just now, Jubileet said:

What we need is more item variety. I posted about this too - new items to use that give more flexibility in terms of survival. It's too limited.

This could very well work as well! 

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Just now, stoney said:

That was with 8-9 pocket knives.

I'm asking for a 4-5 spawn in and 5-6 when Jarvis arrives.

that's too many and pocket knifes are also used to escape, not to have to use them all on trap's a jason spammed in one place

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or.... We can just have pre-patch (For those of us who like objective based counselors and repair counselors) vs. Post Patch-Less objective based (OP  Roid Jason, Roided Vanessa Patch).  There.  Everyone is satisfied.  Give us the options of different patches for quickplay 

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10 minutes ago, anon said:

Most jasons just have maggots in their eyes.

Yeah, throw more maggot into his eyes, I'm sure he'll still drop you lol 

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1 minute ago, Baboose said:

You are looking dumber by the second. If an argument is made that teamwork should be necessary to overcome any given challenge then teamwork must be enabled for everyone.

Something that is only balanced if everyone speaks a common tongue simply doesn't work in europe flat out. I would prefer a balance that is applicable to all regions.

I mean, if you say it must be, I guess it must be! Next up, balancing around skill requires that equal skill levels be "enabled for everyone."

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Just now, Dr. Lecter said:

I mean, if you say it must be, I guess it must be! Next up, balancing around skill requires that equal skill levels be "enabled for everyone."

Or at least a chance yes. If I try to employ a 2vs1 strategy revolving around grab saves then it doesn't help if my teamate is lvl 5 and has no clue because matchmaking doesnt care about skill.

As it currently stands balance must be achieved in a state without communication and despite skill discrepancy cause that is how the game works. It is completely unrealistic to press QP and even expect 2 competent counselors in total. Not even badass but just competent enough to be better than a bot

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40 minutes ago, Dr. Lecter said:

Jason is currently balanced against counselors based on the idea that while 1v1 Jason will destroy the counselor (if not quickly, at least inevitably), working together will enable a better defense (2v1 largely negates grabs, for example). Jason cannot be in two places at once and has skill cooldowns, however, and present game balance assumes that while Jason is engaging one set of counselors, others are completing objectives. 

If you're proposing rebalancing counselors to not need teamwork/communication to face down Jason, then maintaining balance will require Jason being far better at dealing with the counselors in front of him because according to you the game should not factor in whether there's communication/teamwork occurring away from Jason.

Basically, your suggestion's core concept goes against the inherent balance of an asymmetric game. Try something else, by all means, but you can't balance this game without assuming solid counselor teamwork and communication.

Can you link me to where it's explained how Jason is balanced like so? I just want to see your source is all.

2v1 negates a grab, but slashing is another way to kill counselors as well. Also, the hit detection is off, so the counselor trying to hit Jason might not actually hit him if inside a cabin. If Jason grabs a counselor and walks away from the person attempting to hit him, the swing will miss as air brushes across Jason's back. Assuming that when Jason is pursuing one counselor, others are off repairing an objective, is also not the way to balance the game in my opinion. For one you're assuming and two, it doesn't always stand true, especially in quick play matches. Kiting is a very resourceful strategy, but a smart Jason knows how to check for objectives to make sure he isn't being lead on. If they created it to where Jason can easily destroy a counselor 1v1, they already accomplished that at launch. If they created him to where he can easily kill 1v4 at once (random number), that's way too over powered ( by grabbing. you can slash to death 4 counselors, it'd just take time and skill.) Also, I said the primary focus shouldn't be communication and team work, not that some form of it shouldn't be expected at all.

I still disagree with your final statement. 

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even if you are teamed up against jason, the hit boxes are so bad more than half the time you can't save someone in his grab, or if you do, that person becomes glitched out and can't interact with stuff like windows

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Just now, Baboose said:

Or at least a chance yes. If I try to employ a 2vs1 strategy revolving around grab saves then it doesn't help if my teamate is lvl 5 and has no clue because matchmaking doesnt care about skill.

As it currently stands balance must be achieved in a state without communication and despite skill discrepancy cause that is how the game works. It is completely unrealistic to press QP and even expect 2 competent counselors in total. Not even badass but just competent enough to be better than a bot

I'm just going to quote this for posterity and desist...there's no better counter-argument to your position than your own words :)

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To some extent I agree with the OP's suggestions, but instead of increasing the items give us new stuff. Or even use what's there. Drink a beer, get Damage resist for a time but it also slows dodge speed a bit. Drink a soda, get a stamina boost for a time that also burns stamina a bit faster. Have Mitch break out his stash for a Damage resistance, but it also slows your dodge down a bit. Have Chad break out his dad's credit card for a chance to stun Tiffany, ok that's a joke. How about the books laying around? Maybe Deb can use the occult one Tommy had for a boost to Stun Jason. All I'm saying is there are a bunch of items laying around unused that could be activated for use somehow, and character specific things they could add that could be a fun addition! Btw, @Ghostboy20 love that avatar!

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8 minutes ago, bewareofbears said:

I have an inordinate amount of free time but reading the OP's novel isn't how I want to spend it.

I've written out my thoughts on improving counselor play here:

http://forum.f13game.com/topic/16648-improving-counselor-play-without-buffs-or-nerfs/

Awe, sorry my post was too long. It was about 2,800 words. I just felt it needed to be long to properly convey my point.

Nice ideas written there!

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14 minutes ago, Redrum138 said:

To some extent I agree with the OP's suggestions, but instead of increasing the items give us new stuff. Or even use what's there. Drink a beer, get Damage resist for a time but it also slows dodge speed a bit. Drink a soda, get a stamina boost for a time that also burns stamina a bit faster. Have Mitch break out his stash for a Damage resistance, but it also slows your dodge down a bit. Have Chad break out his dad's credit card for a chance to stun Tiffany, ok that's a joke. How about the books laying around? Maybe Deb can use the occult one Tommy had for a boost to Stun Jason. All I'm saying is there are a bunch of items laying around unused that could be activated for use somehow, and character specific things they could add that could be a fun addition! Btw, @Ghostboy20 love that avatar!

This would be more derpy you dont expect someone to drink a soda while being chased and the sugar wouldnt kick in till later on. Tommy also didnt use anything related to a occult to stun jason.

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People just need to stop replying to, or engaging debate with stoney. It's clear she/he overly thrives on debate/attention and is invigorated by any possible spark of a ten page argument. 

She/he has had more threads closed down in the last few days, than I've ate hot dinners. Just give the troll no attention and it'll go away. 

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I have to admit I had way more fun in this game from October - January.  Now it seems too hard for me, but hard for me is subjective and I suck at everything game-wise.   It's way more balance now again, but I don't have as much fun.  I enjoy random online matches of melee.

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This thread has already resulted in several warnings to multiple users....so I'm going to close this and ask that those who were warned please keep their anger in check. 

Thanks!

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